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hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)nikibatts
(2,198 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,931 posts)The thread title does not define "this" that has to end.
It could be arabic terrorism.
It could be Daesh-IS terrorism.
It could be islamic terrorism.
It could be religious terrorism (including christian, muslim, and buddhist).
It could be extremism.
It could be anonymous extremism.
It could be terrorism.
It could be Twitter.
It could be social media.
It could be the internet.
Impermanence is the way of all things.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)davekriss
(4,615 posts)
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,931 posts)davekriss
(4,615 posts)There are people who follow Buddhism as a religion rather than the psychological practice and approach to life that it is. All religions have their insane. All have episodes where the insane commit tragic tribal violence against others. But your point?
I was noting the use of the phrase, "the impermanence of all things", a central tenet of Buddhism. A powerful concept to fully realize and embrace.
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,931 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)If "this" means people acting out their violent impulses and pathological desire to harm people by using some "ideology" as an excuse then, no "this" is not going to come to an end. Certainly not with the way we glorify it.
Rustyeye77
(2,736 posts)I thought it was not ok to call it "Islamic terrorism" here.
They are all fundies to me.
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)is not going away any time soon.
JI7
(89,235 posts)Demsrule86
(68,453 posts)Clinton had it right...you fight it as law enforcement...the so called war on terrorism is a disaster.
gvstn
(2,805 posts)
treestar
(82,383 posts)It is metaphor. But idiots tale it literally.
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)I had hoped after GWB that we would have chosen to move forward with "waging" some law enforcement around the world, bringing people to court. Alas, that was never accomplished and ultimately we went with drone enabled assassinations around the world. Mostly that just creates new terrorists.
Sancho
(9,067 posts)get American troops out of everyone else's backyard. An don't misunderstand, we lead our Western partners astray too. How many times does the US twist arms to get some European or Pacific country to go along and do our bidding as a "coalition" (like that some kind of special license to start a war)?
After WWII, my parents used the GI bill to go to college and were immediately caught in the Korean war (when I came along), followed by yours truly getting a college deferment while 1A in the Vietnam draft...and up to the more immediate attempts by the Bushes to insert the US into the mid-East to get the oil.
The bottom line is that it's US imperialism and interventions that are the basis for the vast majority of wars, deaths, and terrorism in the last 75 years. The US breeds resentment and hatred generation after generation.
US casualties in Korea...100,000+, Vietnam...200,000+...Iraq/Afghanistan...50,000+...and on it goes until the next invasion.
I'm convinced that the West would not be the target of terrorism if we didn't have our troops in their countries. Could all those $s have been spend on new energy sources, education, health care? Of course! It's a choice of our leadership and government to act the way the US acts.
It will not end until we make the choice to end it by going home.
Ilsa
(61,688 posts)Bin Laden was pissed that American soldiers were on Saudi soil.
But I wonder if we'd also be targeted if we didn't extend some kind of assistance to stop atrocities in those countries.
I see you're very understanding .
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)A lot of these terrorist attacks are perpetrated on other Muslims, or other faiths and ethnicities that have nothing to do with us. We are definitely a problem, but we aren't the ONLY problem. These groups are basically death cults. I don't think they will just stop if we go away. They will find new targets for their hatred.
Coventina
(27,040 posts)The vast majority of the targets of Islamic Terrorism are other Muslims. INTENTIONALLY so.
JI7
(89,235 posts)someone else's backyard. and the dumbfuck probably doesn't even know anythign about the korean war or vietnam or even afghanistan.
Sancho
(9,067 posts)JI7
(89,235 posts)girls in England because the US went to war in Vietnam.
Sancho
(9,067 posts)usually on false pretenses.
The MI complex makes a profit, steals resources, and props up the wealthy at the expense of lives. The third world is irrelevant to us unless it's valuable and attractive. Then we make up an excuse to send in the troops.
The system that hates the US (and allies) is a consequence of our occupation and intervention in other countries. We certainly have provided an easy target starting after WWII with our insanely expensive and aggressive foreign policy.
It used to be that people who were susceptible to radicalism were pretty much contained (like inside N. Korea), but with new globalization and world-wide communication, there are no boundaries. The result are 911, and bombs in Manchester. Even in the 70s and 80s we saw the beginnings of terrorism away from bombing barracks in Beirut to airliners like Pan Am (Lockerbie).
It has become the norm now for the US and some Western allies to put troops and aircraft carriers in every nook and cranny of the world. Then we blame the terrorist system that grows up hating us a couple decades later.
Any frustrated person that is emotionally vulnerable becomes the tool of the radicals. Those organized and radical groups wouldn't have nearly the ability to recruit if we were building schools and hospitals instead of sending in drones. We could buy 100 less fighter jets and create solar energy instead of occupying countries with oil. You get the idea.
Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan are just examples of US interventions (and usually the UK has been our willing partner) without any attack on the West - and they create generations of people who hate the West. Sometimes those people come back to bite us. In this case, it is the radicalized mid-Easterners, but next time it might be North Koreans, Iranians, or people from the Philippines or who knows? Instead of a suicide bomb, you may see attacks on the power grid or election systems - without any clear way to even identify the source.
The connection is clear to me.
JI7
(89,235 posts)Blowing up girls in England
Sancho
(9,067 posts)...so ask yourself, what is the origin of the terrorist group that recruited him and why did he believe in their cause so much he would blow himself up?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/24/everything-know-salman-abedi-named-manchester-suicide-bomber/
JI7
(89,235 posts)Sancho
(9,067 posts)More will show up in the US eventually.
Trump is firing missiles and sending in more troops now. He's not killing the terrorists as fast as he is creating new ones.
Twenty years from now, some five-year old whose parents were killed this week by a drone while attending a family wedding will be the terrorist who blows themselves up at a Super Bowl in the US...think about it.
JI7
(89,235 posts)Around the world. But you don't see women doing this type of shit as much as the men.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)It's all our fault that sick fucks blow up children.
All on us.
Right.
Sancho
(9,067 posts)Last edited Wed May 24, 2017, 08:00 AM - Edit history (1)
People don't become suicide bombers in a vacuum. Entire generations of frustrated people blame the West (rightly or wrongly), and they see decades of war, plentiful weapons, and foreign troops on their streets.
You should read up on the current crisis...and there's plenty more on previous wars too. Pick a source:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/america-created-al-qaeda-and-the-isis-terror-group/5402881
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/03/us-isis-syria-iraq
https://www.cato.org/publications/foreign-policy-briefing/does-us-intervention-overseas-breed-terrorism-historical-record
It just happens that the current method of attacking the US and Allies is terrorism, but it's certainly not new. Discontent with US (and allies) intervention in the middle East date back to taking over US embassies and bombings in the 70s and 80s. Now we see the next generation of people who grew up watching Western soldiers and military bases on every corner.
If nothing else...watch this:
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I love how the actual terrorists can't be held responsible in your world.
It's all our fault. Riigghhtt.
Sancho
(9,067 posts)I'm just pointing out the cause for the rise of much of the hatred of the West that drives some of the terrorist organizations.
Many of our own leaders predicted what happens when nations choose the imperialist, military path.
In the world we live in today, you will see international terrorism continue to grow as long as the West puts most of it's resources into military expansionism.
We don't want better trade agreements, we send in the aircraft carriers! It's not working.
JI7
(89,235 posts)Sancho
(9,067 posts)there are plenty of examples, and I explained that all sources seem consistent on the beginnings of some of the terrorism.
The point is still that it's no mystery across the spectrum at this point.
My original post may be lost in the debate though. If the West wants to reduce world wide terrorism, we might start by taking troops out instead of sending them in...and Obama seems to get it even though he was not entirely successful.
JI7
(89,235 posts)Sancho
(9,067 posts)terrorists are violent (and many are women).
What is the reason that people became committed to violence? I just saying that many of these terrorist organizations target the Europeans and US as the cause for their misery.
If we didn't see the military as the answer to every problem, and spend endlessly on a war footing, maybe we wouldn't be creating the next generation of terrorists.
A cause is not an excuse, but it's a reason to change the way the US acts as a country.
This guy was British.
Sancho
(9,067 posts)Rustyeye77
(2,736 posts)
?strip=all&w=300&quality=100luvMIdog
(2,533 posts)They had a moment of silence all over that country to pay respect to the victims of 9/11. Lines and lines of school children brought flowers and laid them at the embassy gates. They were very sympathetic about what had happened and at that time still had warm feelings toward Americans.
I flew home very shortly after almost immediately. What I saw on Faux news was nothing at all that was actually happening in Jordan. All they kept showing over and over was an old lady and some children shooting a gun up in the air and dancing. By the way they do that at engagement and wedding parties all the time and usually many of these parties spill over into the streets. There was NO mention at all of any of the sympathies expressed by Jordanians. Faux news was trying to beat the drums of war and hatred. It was very effective. I tried to tell people on the internet that Faux was not reporting the news accurately. People would say things to me like " Oh right. You would like us to believe that a major news network is lying about the news! YOU are the liar ."
I went back over after Iraq had been invaded by our forces. They would show me pictures of naked pyramids of Arab prisoners that had been tortured. Those pictures were all over their newspapers. The Abu Ghraib prison abuse was shocking to them. Also I was shown picture after picture of people that had been melted to the walls by blasts etc. They don't block out the disturbing pictures of war from their news- they show it all. That is when I really was not warmly welcomed or smiled at any more. No one tried to attack me or anything, it was just evident I was not welcome as like before. Things changed from the Iraq invasion. They were disturbed by the looting and ransacking of Iraq. Also what bothered them very very much was a former Iraqi beauty queen telling her story of repeated rape and torture in Abu Ghraib. These things had direct impact on helping terrorist organizations build their numbers. Displaced people who have seen their families killed before their eyes are fuel for terrorism. When we invade their countries with force, there is going to be terrorist blow back. We greatly contributed to destabilizing the entire middle east and it sent thousands of Iraqi refugees fleeing into Jordan and other places. And then the house of cards just kept tumbling and now so many are being slaughtered by ISIS because the conditions were ripe for it. We simply can't expect to think that we can just invade countries and displace people without there being any blow back from terrorists.
What I did notice after 9/11 here in America was that quite suddenly the evangelical zealots were pulling in herds of people which has become the nutty right wing we are now stuck dealing with that are very fascist & very brainwashed . The same thing happened over there. Their countries get invaded people feel terrified and religious extremists are there to preach and pull what used to be moderate Muslims over into their way of thinking. Terrorists are created. Brainwashing begins.
In the 1960's women were wearing mini skirts in Egypt. Their movies depicted movies much like Arabic versions of Jerry Lewis or Frank Sinatra style movies they were imitating. Now look at the mess.
ISIS is a monster doing monstrous things yes.
Take a look from this old Egyptian movie from the 60's. You may want to speed through the reading of the credits at the beginning. You might notice how much they were trying to make modern films.
JI7
(89,235 posts)Even now women can wear miniskirts in egypt but most don't.
luvMIdog
(2,533 posts)Last edited Wed May 24, 2017, 08:00 AM - Edit history (1)
in dresses to their knees from the 60's. They told me that back then mainly old women wore the traditional clothing, but that things changed now. That's just what the women told me.
You can google 'Egypt golden years women' and see that their society as a whole had become quite modern That's why the 50's & 60's were called Egypt's golden years
Buckeyeblue
(5,499 posts)There isn't just one reason that terrorism exists. Some people are attracted to extemism. This is a human condition. So from that stand point we will never be free of terrorism. I do think the Obama approach of having a tempered response is the correct response. Future terrorist need to understand that we will morn the victims but we will not speak of the perpatraitor. And, more importantly, we will not live our lives in fear.
avebury
(10,951 posts)thought that you were going to be talking about Trump and his minions.