so, we just graduated 979 officers from the AFA, and Coast Guard, etc.

[niyad]

wondering how much each of those newly-minted officers costs us, the taxpayers (latest info i could find was from 20 years ago, and then it was nearly 300k per officer. would guess MUCH higher now)


so, from the 20-year-old figure, I get nearly 300 million per graduating class? (Not to mention paying their salaries for their terms of service) are the service academies really worth it? sex scandals, cheating scandals, reichwing evangelical nutbars, etc., etc.

[MissB]

1. Let's not paint the entire graduating class with a broad brush

Maybe that wasn't your intention to do so- if not then I certainly apologize.

The service academies are a necessary part of keeping a strong military. Anecdotally of course, but there were a few kids in my sons' graduating classes from the past two years that were heading to the service academies. They are from affluent families and had other choices but chose to serve. One young woman's father is an NPR (state level organization, not national) reporter that is certainly progressive. She's brilliant. She will make a fine officer, as will the others that have gone before her.

It's an honorable choice.

[niyad]

2. the question was not about whether it is an honourable choice, but whether the academies

are a waste of taxpayer money.

[MissB]

5. Do you see officer development as a waste of taxpayer $?

Do you know how difficult (competitive) it is to get into a service academy?

I clearly don't get your position on this. I see the service academies as a good thing- institutions that develop officers. There are many pathways to becoming an officer in the US but I see the academies as the strongest option.

[niyad]

6. you can see whatever you like. the question is legitimate, and often discussed, even in congress.

[MissB]

7. So no answer? I get that you are saying essentially that people are asking if it's worth it.

What is your opinion? You gave no answers to my two serious questions. Usually with such an OP, one would have a dialogue. I'm attempting to understand your point of view.

[niyad]

11. no, you aren't.

[MissB]

12. Stevenleser has provided actual links and a start of a worthwhile discussion

Sadly you have not. I will enjoy reading his links. The lack of substance in your response - really, the equivalent of a non-response- isn't contributing to the discussion at all.

It's an interesting topic. The way you've presented it and responded doesn't draw me in to further non-discussion of the topic with you.

Best of luck.

Edited to correct name in title.

[exboyfil]

3. That is offensive

My high school classmate graduated in 1985 from the Naval Academy. His son just graduated this year. Both are top notch individuals.

By the way my classmate is also a liberal.

[niyad]

4. what, exactly, is offensive about asking whether the academies are worth the cost?

yes, there are good people coming out of the academies, but that does not change the basic question, which is asked often. google it.

[stevenleser]

8. It's a question the services and congress frequently ask and evaluate. In order to do so...

... you need data like:

- How successful are the officers that enter the services from the Academies as opposed to from ROTC or OCS/OTS. Measuring success can be difficult for many reasons, among them that historically there has been some tendency for service academy grads to be given a leg up in assignments and promotions just for being service academy grads.

- How long do officers from each of the commissioning methods tend to stay in the military

- What value does having officers with the varied experiences of the three commissioning methods give the military.

- In cost comparisons, its important to take into account cadets who use the academies as the most expensive 2 year colleges in the country. If cadets leave after their second year, they don't owe the military/government anything, but they are half the way to their bachelors degrees. There is some of this that happens with every class.
-------------------------------
When you plug in all the numbers, I doubt it is worth it. Officers commissioned through the academy would have to outclass their colleagues by a significant margin in order for the costs to work out. I don't believe that is actually what is happening.

On Edit: Its particularly difficult to imagine a cost benefit analysis between OCS/OTS and the academies would turn out in the academies' favor.

[politicaljunkie41910]

14. The military academies are 4 year programs. The Army also had a 5 yr program when I was

active duty military and I would assume that the other branches of service did as well, though I cannot say that for certain. The five year program when I was in the military offered a first year preparatory school for members of the Army who were already young enlisted service members. I know because I was offered an opportunity to attend and declined. I was a 20 yr old enlisted female in the Army stationed in Germany at the time. My MOS was Finance Specialist and I had previously won Soldier of the Quarter for my unit. My commander called me in one day and told me about the program because he had nominated me for one of the slots available for members of the enlisted ranks, but it required a year of preparatory classes at the academy to ensure that you are qualified to handle the curriculum at the service academies. This was 38 years ago though. Things could have changed since then.

Also the service academies have all the facilities and more of a small sized university, with far fewer students to spread the per capita cost over. So I don't doubt that the per capita cost may be that high. Is it worth the cost? I think it is to have a well trained and educated Officer Corp. The military's job is unique and cutting corners would probably show up over time in their effectiveness. At a time when only 1% of our citizens are volunteering to serve, the services have to be able to compete for the best and brightest we have to offer.

[stevenleser]

15. Correct about the 4 years. I hope nothing I wrote suggested otherwise.

The studies I posted a little further down thread suggests there is less than a 3% difference in quality of officer between the academies and ROTC/OTS-OCS.

When I was on active duty in the USAF, I was stationed closed to the Air Force Academy and got to watch the cadets of various classes do their thing. Prior to that I also got to see what the OTS "90 day wonders" at OTS at Lackland did for their training. It was interesting stuff.

I am basically agnostic in this question, but what I would say to those who are adamant that Academy officers are better, you better hope that is not the case, because a vast majority of the officers serving are non-Academy grads. If we need to staff up quickly for a conflict, 99% of the officers we would commission quickly would be from OCS/OTS. If you are telling me they are inadequate to the task because they arent Academy grads, we are in trouble.

[stevenleser]

9. Here are two studies that were performed...

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0059/6242/files/tenchfrancisprose.pdf

http://calhoun.nps.edu/bitstream/handle/10945/9034/studyofusmilitar00lopi.pdf?sequence=1

[niyad]

10. thank you for posting these studies.

[MissB]

13. Thank you for providing some interesting links!

I also appreciate your other post. I look forward to reading those studies!