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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRe: Comey and Mueller
Dick Cheney: How can you possibly be reversing course on something of this importance after all this time?
James Comey: I will accept for purposes of discussion that it is as valuable as you say it is. That only makes this more painful. It doesn't change the analysis. If I can't find a lawful basis for something, your telling me you really, really need to do it doesn't help me.
Dick Cheney: Others see it differently.
James Comey: The analysis is flawed, in fact facially flawed. No lawyer reading that could reasonably rely on it.
David Addington: Well, I'm a lawyer, and I did.
James Comey: No good lawyer.
Angler: The Cheney Vice Presidency; Barton Gellman; Penguin; 2008; pages 295-296.
As we wait for Mr. Comey to testify on Thursday, I thought it would be fun to review his interactions within the Bush-Cheney administration. Most people remember his intervening when two White House officials attempted to illegally get John Ashcroft to sign on to an enhanced patriot act from his hospital bed. But the confrontation detailed above which took place a few days before is less well-known. Gellman's book is perhaps the best resource regarding this chapter in our history.
VP Cheney was attempting to keep information on the upgraded domestic spying program secret from everyone in the administration, except a very few individuals. Indeed, unlike the patriot act, this program was classified at the highest level, just like the code word information Trump recently leaked to his Russian buddies. Cheney hoped that the pressure to replace the current program, set to run out in a couple days, would force the Justice Department to sign on.
Cheney and his friends were not happy that Ashcroft said he would not sign on, unless Comey was brought in. Thus, the tense meeting noted above, in which Addington shouted, If you rule that way, the blood of the hundred thousand people who die in the next attack will be on your hands! at Comey. The following day, when Comey arrived for another meeting with Cheney, he was refused entrance. And this is what led to the infamous conflict at Ashcroft's hospital bed.
Ashcroft's wife had instructed the hospital that absolutely no calls were to be put through to her husband's room. Andrew Card and Alberto Gonzales attempted to get through, but their call was rejected. Either one of them, or perhaps Cheney, got President Bush to call he got through and inform the Ashcrofts that Card and Gonzales were on their way over.
Comey was informed of their plan, and he rushed to Ashcroft's hospital room. What hasn't been reported on very often is that Comey called the FBI director, Robert Mueller, and had him inform thew guards at Ashcroft's room that Comey could not be removed when the White House ghouls arrived.
It is well known that Comey prevented Card and Gonzales from accomplishing their goal. More, as Gellman documents, Card would order Comey to go straight to the White House later in the evening. Comey told Card that after what he had witnessed at the hospital, he would refuse to meet with Card without the solicitor general of the United States present.
Comey would then hold an emergency meeting at the Justice Department. If the Cheney forces got Bush to over-rule him, Comey would resign. Numerous others stated that they would, too. This group included FBI director Mueller. Earlier in the evening, Mueller had said, There comes a time in every man's life when the good Lord tests him. Comey, Mueller, and the others passed that test.
Gellman writes about how the Cheney people tended to bad-mouth Comey, increasingly in the days leading up to the showdown, including around Bush. Interestingly, Bush was known to say, Oh, Cuomey? He's a great guy! mistakenly mispronouncing Comey's name in the manner of team Cheney (who attempted to connect him with Andrew Cuomo, who they despised).
In fact, when Bush met with Comey in the days after the hospital conflict, and learned about the potential resignations, Bush would agree with Comey's position, rather than Cheney's. And, as we all know, in time the decision was made to appoint Patrick Fitzgerald to investigate the Plame scandal, an illegal attempt by the Office of the Vice President to conduct a black op.
From this episode, I think it is safe to say that Comey and Mueller are willing and able to confront the abuse of executive power. Indeed, they coordinated their efforts in the past, and they are coordinating their efforts now.
WhiteTara
(29,676 posts)empty Fitzmas. That was deeply disappointing and this is so much worse.
H2O Man
(73,333 posts)was big. Libby refused to turn on Cheney. It was Congress that absolutely should have pursued Cheney's role -- as Patrick recommended.
WhiteTara
(29,676 posts)but Trump stays in power...not big enough.
Tatiana
(14,167 posts)Excellent points and very good use of history. CNN also provided a good summary of this very topic in May.
There is a trio of patriots here: Mueller, Comey, and Bharara. Between these people lies the truth about what happened to this country and how Trump and his masters managed their coup. I am still ultimately glad that Comey was fired because we got Mueller and I believe Mueller has the skill set and experience, without the ego or desire for recognition. This is Comey's biggest flaw and a common one among leaders.
I also believe that there are some in leadership roles (in both parties) that don't believe this country can handle the truth. They would rather watch our nation decline in stature at home and abroad instead of confronting the biggest Constitutional dilemma we have ever faced.
How do you address an election that was stolen? What is the remedy?
James Comey is of Irish heritage, from Clanna Woulfe. Thus, as much as I'd like to argue otherwise, I must admit that he may -- at times -- come off as being a tad theatrical .....and possibly as a "just look how smart I am" type of guy. But he is a solid investigator and prosecutor.
Mieller, by nature, offends far less people. And that has advantages.
I agree with your assessment of the cowardly, unpatriotic character of many of the elected representatives in DC. Think of how many of them have taken campaign contributions from Trump. And that's the tip of the ice cube when it comes to the money.
It's essential that Pence gets kneecapped in this, too. Once Trump is being impeached, we don't want to hear that he is "the one man who can bring America together." Flynn is turning now, but if he alone says that he didn't lie to Pence -- he didn't -- there needs to be others to support that. If it's just Flynn, it is his word against Pence's.
Hekate
(90,202 posts)H2O Man
(73,333 posts)could play a role in this. He is a snake, though a little one. A fucking creep. A liar.
However, he was in the outer circle, per Russia. Flynn dipped him, with the meetings with the ambassador. Sessions got caught, and hence his recusal. The news is saying that is why Trump is increasingly mad at poor Jeff. But there is more. Much more.
Trump spoke with Sessions several times about Comey. This included leading up to the firing of Comey. The cover story was the bit about the Clinton campaign; however, Trump blew that out of the water. Sessions has since attempted to put a wall between himself and Trump on this subject. He is, of course, following his lawyer's advice. That's why Trump is so pissed at him. And why Sessions has offered his resignation. He will turn on Trump by mid-July.
And, if he turns on Trump, he'll have to expose Pence's role.
moonscape
(4,664 posts)Tatiana
(14,167 posts)More people will be willing to work with Mueller and give him the evidence he needs. Some were put off by Comey (Rosenstein's letter gives us a big clue. He never would have written such a blisteringletter if he was the only person that held that viewpoint.)
My disappointment in our DC officials is great. There are some, like Schiff and Waters and Cummins who are prepared to confront the truth. But they are running up against a wall.
I maintain it is essential to gain evidence of Pence's participation in this coup and to impeach him as well. I would actually prefer to have Pence impeached first and leave Trump in temporarily as a lame-duck without a VP (Congress should deny approval of any appointment) to prevent the ascension of Paul Ryan. Trump is too arrogant to resign. If we take back the House in 2018, that would give us a Democratic Speaker, at which time we should impeach and remove Trump with the assurance of a Democratic successor for President.
Mme. Defarge
(7,982 posts)I have long been confident that Comey will be vindicated for his role that, most probably, affected the outcome of the 2016 Presidential election.
H2O Man
(73,333 posts)Had the ex-president not met with the Attorney General on an airplane, Comey never would have made the public appearance.
A lot of factors combined in 2016, to help Trump. None more important than the Russian coordinating with Trump's campaign.
Mme. Defarge
(7,982 posts)That's my take on it.
StevieM
(10,499 posts)not met with Loretta Lynch.
He intervened in the race, over and over again. He certainly had no right to do what he did 11 days before the election.
I think Comey was much more important to the election result than Russia. He turned the race upside down and the research date proves it.
StevieM
(10,499 posts)And he didn't just affect the outcome--he dramatically reshaped the race.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,308 posts)H2O Man
(73,333 posts)Much appreciated!
coeur_de_lion
(3,666 posts)Will they take him down like Felt took Nixon down?
H2O Man
(73,333 posts)Trump will not complete his second year in office. In fact, it could end this fall.
Still, the most dangerous time for our constitutional democracy is between his firing Comey, and his exit. Those who believe that Trump will create an international crisis -- most likely intentionally -- in this time have valid concerns. Keep an eye on the Middle East.
Blue_Roses
(12,894 posts)"keep an eye on the Middle East," because we just learned about the fued between the Saudi's and Quatar.
So much going on that I can't keep up with it all.
H2O Man
(73,333 posts)That news is unsettling. It could become worse, quickly. I am hoping that "the generals" have agreed to not act on any insane commands from Trump.
Hekate
(90,202 posts)...to Trump's worldview, or liberated to express his own now that he is in the overtly political sphere -- that is, the world as the US has tried to shape it since the end of WW II is not interconnected and co-operative, but really an inherently hostile place of competition in a zero-sum game. In other words, it confirmed my suspicion that everyone with a good reputation that Trump pulls into his orbit gets dirty one way or another.
Like you, I hope there is in the Pentagon a core group with an understanding that Trump is unstable, even insane, and that extreme caution must be their byword.
if McMaster is actually a jackass, or if he is simply playing a role publicly, so that he is included on inside-the-administration conversations. I suspect the second option; if so, it must be somewhat humiliating for him to play along.
Me.
(35,454 posts)Haven't thought of Felt since he was outed, by him
spanone
(135,636 posts)H2O Man
(73,333 posts)Can't wait for Thursday -- but tomorrow will be very interesting, too!
Phoenix61
(16,954 posts)I'm so tired of people running Comey down. I know there are many who are very unhappy with some of his actions but to accuse him of being a republican pawn is grossly unfair.
Hekate
(90,202 posts)Last edited Wed Jun 7, 2017, 03:31 AM - Edit history (1)
However, just a word of caution to our more excitable and impatient DUers: her leadup covering said lawyer's career included his working more than a decade to bring down two major Mafia dons. It took a long time to amass all the info and make sure it was so solid it could not fail.
To which I can only add: it's a damn good thing there weren't any impressionable young analysts (ahem) in his office who figured the public needed to know all the evidence collected 5 years before he was able to bring down the second crime boss. Because then the guy would have gotten away with his crimes after all.
Just sayin'
Edited to add: the lawyer's name is Weissmann
Blue_Roses
(12,894 posts)and so true. The wheels of justice move slow, especially when you have reason to be worried. But, taking the time to get it right is worth every nailbite.
Steven Maurer
(455 posts)...I have no doubt in my mind that he has been trying to do what he believes is right by the country - within his flawed view.
It has been a long time since I can honestly call someone on the other side "the honorable opposition". But in this case, it is fit.
Naturally, of course, this led to him being fired by the rest of the Republicans.
H2O Man
(73,333 posts)is not a republican. He was a registered republican many years ago. But not in recent times. He is, however, rather conservative.
Steven Maurer
(455 posts)$2,300 to John McCain in 2008
$2,500 to Mitt Romney in 2011
$2,500 to Susan Brooks in 2011
$2,500 to Mitt Romney in 2012
And while he said he is no longer a registered Republican, it is more a lack of registration than anything.
I do though think that he was mostly embarrassed by Trump.
H2O Man
(73,333 posts)exactly what I said.
Steven Maurer
(455 posts)I don't, but it's not a big enough deal to argue about.
H2O Man
(73,333 posts)As I noted, Mr. Comey is not a republican, and hasn't been for many years. 100% accurate. I also said he is conservative. Again, I am 100% correct.
Steven Maurer
(455 posts)But beyond that small inaccuracy in your statement, I agree.
H2O Man
(73,333 posts)Mr. Comey was not a republican a year ago ....no many how many times you incorrectly say he was.
Steven Maurer
(455 posts)Comey only announced his decision to not be registered as a Republican less than a year ago.
Google this. You're smart enough to do that.
H2O Man
(73,333 posts)Nor do I care what someone wrote on Wikipedia. That's simply not accurate.
Steven Maurer
(455 posts)I didn't think you were going for the whole deciding that your opinions were more credible than actual published and referenced facts.
But whatever.
Blue_Roses
(12,894 posts)Thank-you!
H2O Man
(73,333 posts)unblock
(51,974 posts)unblock
(51,974 posts)H2O Man
(73,333 posts)speculate that your focus was on the word "facially." If that wasn't it, I apologize.
The word has a specific meaning in its legal sense. It goes a bit beyond the obvious "on the face of it," though that actually applies. A facial challenge to a statute, or proposed law, is a process of constitutional law, that claims the statute or proposed law always violates the US Constitution (rather than has the potential to violate it in specific circumstances).
unblock
(51,974 posts)i get it now, i can appreciate the desire for a shorthand way of saying there's a prima facia argument against something....
i still find the "facially flawed" phrase very amusing....
H2O Man
(73,333 posts)After boxing in 329 fights, no one ever bent my nose out of shape. It's not likely that anyone's inability to understand the meaning of a word could do any damage to it.
unblock
(51,974 posts)on the other hand, i had to have my nose reconstructed after a car accident many years ago.
so it seems that both i and my vocabulary are facially flawed.
and perhaps my sense of humor as well....
furtheradu
(1,865 posts)But for some of us, they shaped our World.
I expect a LOT in the next 2 days.
Thank YOU for reMinding us of
of who Comey is, & has been..
& who We are, & where We have been.
..& where We are going.
Thank YOU. 💖
H2O Man
(73,333 posts)Wednesday will be good. Thursday will be even better. Much better.
voteearlyvoteoften
(1,716 posts)H2O Man
(73,333 posts)wryter2000
(46,016 posts)Thanks for the history and analysis. Spot on.
H2O Man
(73,333 posts)tblue37
(64,982 posts)robertpaulsen
(8,632 posts)Mueller will hopefully be very thorough in his investigation. Regardless of what Comey reveals or does not reveal Thursday, there is still so much more criminality in the Trump administration yet to be explored beyond the purview of the Trump/Comey obstruction story. But it is helpful to look back on his prior efforts to speak truth to power. I particularly loved his dig at Addington. It would be refreshing to hear some similar dig at Trump - "No good president would ask such a question."
H2O Man
(73,333 posts)Good to see you!
robertpaulsen
(8,632 posts)Always good to read your take on things.
What do you think of the proceedings this morning?
H2O Man
(73,333 posts)very well. Poor John McCain humiliated himself, though he probably has no memory of it.
robertpaulsen
(8,632 posts)Not quite, considering so many of his bad stances over the years, but now his chance to bow out gracefully has passed.
Comey came off as a straight shooter and also gave me the impression that he is still keeping some ammo in reserve where classified info is at play. I feel pretty secure there will be more details for him to reveal to Mueller's special counsel. Like the Senators, I really want to read those memos he made expressly because he thought Trump is a liar!
H2O Man
(73,333 posts)I felt sorry for him as a human being. But not as a US Senator. (I felt guilty for laughing out loud!)
Nice to see you
robertpaulsen
(8,632 posts)Does this whole scandal seem bigger than Plamegate? I really hope justice is served.
Me.
(35,454 posts)Because of all the tentacles and the complete corruption regarding the finances of 45. I don't know who is worse, at this point, for different reasons, 45 or Cheney, though both have been/are perilous for this country.
robertpaulsen
(8,632 posts)My hope is that Mueller will leave no stone unturned; which would entail complete examination of all financial documentation for the past 20 years (including tax returns) connected with foreign countries as well as domestic entanglements with foreign actors, such as Russian mafia. I think at a minimum this would show a Constitutional violation of the emoluments clause. But I suspect there is far greater criminality.
Me.
(35,454 posts)And I think his sons pointed the way when a year or so more they said they received buckets of money from the Russians. 45 sold that house in Fla. for far more than it was worth and of course, there are the sales of apartments in 45 Tower. I think they are up to their necks in hock to the Russians, captives to whatever Putin wanted/wants.
coeur_de_lion
(3,666 posts)Care to comment, Mr. H?
[link:https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/os-jcomey-060817.pdf|
>>snip
On the morning of April 11, the President called me and asked what I had
done about his request that I get out that he is not personally under investigation. I replied that I had passed his request to the Acting Deputy Attorney General, but I had not heard back. He replied that the cloud was getting in the way of his ability to do his job. He said that perhaps he would have his people reach out to the Acting Deputy Attorney General. I said that was the way his request should be handled. I said the White House Counsel should contact the leadership of DOJ to make the request, which was the traditional channel.
He said he would do that and added, Because I have been very loyal to
you, very loyal; we had that thing you know. I did not reply or ask him what he meant by that thing. I said only that the way to handle it was to have the White House Counsel call the Acting Deputy Attorney General. He said that was what he would do and the call ended.
That was the last time I spoke with President Trump.
<<snip
H2O Man
(73,333 posts)I'm going to write up a quickie on Sessions, then I will dissect this letter.
It's good. Very good.
coeur_de_lion
(3,666 posts)Work will interfere with my Comey enjoyment today.
H2O Man
(73,333 posts)Take the day off work. I'm not going in to the clinic myself.
coeur_de_lion
(3,666 posts)at work now
malaise
(267,827 posts)Me.
(35,454 posts)How could I not recommend this thread?
H2O Man
(73,333 posts)thinking of the beginning of the movie The Exorcist, when the old pries was in the desert, and recognized an old foe's presence.
This country needs to get this straight this time.
Me.
(35,454 posts)I was thinking it had a familiar feel to it and then I saw RP upthread and it really did.