What is your opinion of this "American flag"?

[left-of-center2012]

This was posted in a non-DU forum. The black and white flag with one blue stripe is being flown by some in support of police.
My response to the post was:

The “Officer Down Memorial Page” says 65 cops have been killed in the line of duty so far in 2017.

The Washington Post says 492 people have been shot and killed by police so far in 2017.

I think there are better ways for those wishing to show solidarity with the police than flying an altered American flag. Plus a lot of men and women have fought and died for the old red, white, and blue that to change it's colors for one cause or another (in my opinion) demeans it.

Again, just my opinion.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

1. It's ugly as fuck.

[cpamomfromtexas]

2. What about a flag for every citizen shot by a cop

[FakeNoose]

3. They can't use this

Nobody gets to use our flag design except the USA.

This black & blue version won't be allowed IMO.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

6. "Won't be allowed" by whom? I've seen it flown.

[SCantiGOP]

11. You can alter it, you can burn it

Nobody can say "they can't use this."

[Coventina]

15. As I said further down thread: It is EVERYWHERE here in AZ.

So, it has massive acceptance and support here.

[BumRushDaShow]

4. Desecration of the flag. nt

[forgotmylogin]

5. Which colony is booted out to change it?

Far as I remember from Cub Scouts and Government classes, the flag is not supposed to be altered in lieu of the real one.

I found this online, it's actually called a "police remembrance flag".



The only thing I'd say that is important is that no flag is supposed to supercede the American flag in size or position, so for maximum respect, you fly a second alternate or "protest" flag just below the real one.

Like this:

[Igel]

16. It's an "instead of" kind of thing.

I see people flying Mexican flags. I see people flying state flags. If you fly the US flag and another, the US flag is supposed to either be higher or be to the right. But if you fly a Mexican flag, it's probably going to offend people to say that somebody should force them to fly a US flag, as well.

The flag is not to touch the ground, either. Lots of people don't follow the flag code. Lots of people consider it a "free speech" thing when they do it. Usually when people get offended at the abuse of the flag (if you want to call it that) it's not so much the abuse that they care about it's the cause or reasons behind the abuse.

If this version of the flag was there to support single-payer health care or was emblematic of swing state's about to "go blue," there'd be far less concern.

[Lee-Lee]

7. I've got no problem with the regular "thin blue line" emblem

But I have never been a fan of altering the American flag for any special interest type logo, be it like this or with a pit leaf or with Pride colors.

That said, your analogy comparing deaths is disingenuous at best, assuming somehow that all those killed in ancounters with police, or even a majority, were wrongfully killed.

While the police do make mistakes- everyone does, it's part of being human, the vast vast majority of people killed in encounters with police are, while still tragic, justifiable shootings brought on by the actions of the deceased. Comparing them to the people killed in the line of duty who are dong so in the name of exercising lawful government authority and enforcing the laws that keep society together is not a valid mental exercise. While I know hating on cops is popular around here, Democrats are the party of government and the party of using laws and government to achieve our goals. Not one single thing government does is possible without laws, and laws only work because there is someone with authority and a badge empowered by society to enforce them up to and including with force. You can have laws without police, you can't have government or any government programs without laws.

[peggysue2]

8. Nah

I prefer the original, flown upside down to mark the clear, multiple crises we face in the Age of the Trumpster.

[Sneederbunk]

9. A particular stripe does not represent a particular colony.

So all former colonies should be offended.

[WinkyDink]

10. If ANY group usually associated with Democrats had "re-done" our flag, FOX would be apoplectic!

[BumRushDaShow]

13. Remember when they freaked out when Obama was standing in front of

the OH state flag while giving a speech in Toledo, where they thought he changed the American flag to incorporate his logo?



https://www.mediamatters.org/research/2008/10/16/radio-host-bob-grant-asserted-that-obama-create/145712

[CrispyQ]

19. LOL. I hadn't heard that.

Thanks for the laugh!

[BumRushDaShow]

22. There were a bunch of threads on DU2 about it

Some examples -

https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4258698
https://election.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7609410

[treestar]

12. I don't care or the image

that the police are a "thin blue line" between US and THEM.

Though the organization is to help families of cops who were killed - I am fine with that, just not the image.

Police should be considered part of a community, along with people who get arrested, victims of crime, the courts, etc.

[Coventina]

14. I see it all the darn time here in AZ. It's pasted all over cars, truck, and on t-shirts.

Seriously, I see it multiple times every day.

It's basically a big F-U to Black Lives Matter.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

17. I prefer a "salute to Jamaica" flag:

Supposedly, if you stare at the flag for half a minute, then look at a blank white piece of paper, the "image" will be red, white, and blue.

I didn't see it, but then, I thought the dress was white and gold.

[NotASurfer]

18. No problem with altered flag

Same thing has been done replacing stripes with rainbow stripes.

It's hypocritical for somebody who defends the thin blue line flag to get a knot in their boxers over the rainbow version. It's just as hypocritical the other way.

[Igel]

20. Texas has a strange education system.

But one thing that one standard tells science teachers to teach is how representing data can manipulate the reader.

One way is to go back and forth between numbers and percentages. "1% of X is affected by this, but 36 Y were affected by that over there." Or what might be the same thing, "39,354 X were affected by this, but 0.002% of Y were affected by that over there." The first makes you think Y was wronged mostly, the second that X were wronged.

So 0.00065% of police were killed so far this year. 65. I'll go with those numbers, a few either way doesn't much matter here.

0.0000015% of regular folk were killed by police. Orders of magnitude larger. The homicide rate in Chicago alone--chosen because it's high and the city's large-ish--is far higher. But many are more in solidarity with poor people in Chicago who are killers of their peers than with police.

Now, one reason for this is that 492 number. All those innocent people. I mean, they have to be innocent, they're dead and were victims, right?

Most of them were armed. Probably a majority with firearms. Now, there are those who think that if there's a choice between somebody shooting a policeman and the policeman defending himself, the only right choice is a dead officer. They don't stop being people when they wear blue any more than a civilian stops being a person when s/he picks up a gun or rushes the officer. Very few people think self-defense isn't a good motive. Often we do things because we perceive a risk, even if it's not there. But some consider police to be somewhat less than full human beings. Some of those 492 aren't victims; they're thwarted victimizers. Some were errors in judgment that shouldn't have happened and any reasonable unbiased person would argue should be punished; but not a few were errors of judgment that would be very difficult for human beings like you or me to avoid, or for the cop or dead civilian to have avoided. Unless we weight our employees' lives as less than others'. (Personally, I tend to like supporting employees and when they make a mistake think of them as deserving at least a fair shake. Some people are just anti-worker, though.)

[CrispyQ]

21. The hypocrisy about the flag amuses me.

I saw a US flag sticker on a trash can in a bathroom at a fast food restaurant once. How respectful. There's a photo out there on the internets of GWBush signing a small American flag. There are bedsheets, clothing, car accessories done up in the stars & stripes. You can even fart in your flag underwear. I've seen flags being flown that were dirty & torn, & flown at night without a light. No one pays attention to the flag code, until it's someone they disapprove of not paying attention to the code.

[Wounded Bear]

23. 1st Amendment kind of allows it...

I'm not a fan of the "Blue Lives Matter" movement, though. It's derivative, usurpant, and demeaning to the 492, who are mostly black and other POC.