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Sun Jul 2, 2017, 11:44 AM

Damn it,we need a fact-based debate...WHERE the money GOES, not just who to KICK OUT of lifeboat?

In this stupid debate about who should or shouldn't be thrown out of the lifeboat, about who pays for the bloated bureaucratic behemoth we call the "US Healthcare System", can we talk about health care costs?

Pharma Revenues by Market
http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-with-the-biggest-global-pharmaceutical-markets-in-the-world.html

US $339 B
Japan $94 B
China. $87 B
Germany $46 B
France. $37 B
Italy. $27 B
Britain. $24 B

Partly driven by excess marketing, absurd "what the market will bear" pricing, markets for prescriptions expanded by lobbying the AMA or NIH to drop targets for blood pressure or diabetes etc., and kickbacks to doctors.
https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=


That's just pharma. So, what happens if we focus on where the money is going? Might pharmaceutical revenues be under threat? Could it be that our public discussion is restricted to "Single Payer vs. ACA vs. Tax Credits vs. Cutting Medicaid" because focus on underlying costs would create downward pressure on revenue for major health related corporations?

One minor difference between the U.S. And other countries is gunshot wounds -- likely exceeding $3.7 billion per year. ($1.4 / 42% + $180 + $224)
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/04/gunshot-wounds-medicaid-insurance-costs/1956445/

From Blue Cross Website, 39% hospitals; 22% physician/clinic, 21% pharma, 10% administration.


Or this, broken down by disease.
https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-9426b4bab14e3d2555e63fb390c96b8b

Breakdown of hospital stays: https://www.hcup-us.ahrq.gov/reports/statbriefs/sb148.jsp
Interesting collection of public health references: http://www.bettycjung.net/Phdata2.htm

Here's a hypothesis: The RANGE of DEBATE on this topic has been ARTIFICIALLY and intentionally NARROWED to prevent real debate. Real debate might cause us to take steps like: banning direct-to-consumer ads, outlawing price differentials based on who pays for a procedure or drug, identifying the most wasteful and ineffective drugs, prohibiting price gouging. What we humans see as "savings" is seen by WallStreet (and its most important owners) as drops in revenue. The impact on market cap is the bitter pill that the Owners refuse to swallow.

They'd rather kill Medicaid and eventually Medicare, and force old or sick people to use their life savings and reverse mortgages to cope with inflated costs, than accept a present decline in Pfizer or Untied HealthCare or Merck or Aetna stock. That's a big part of the reason that common sense is swimming upstream in American politics. Protecting the Dow.

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Reply Damn it,we need a fact-based debate...WHERE the money GOES, not just who to KICK OUT of lifeboat? (Original post)
lostnfound Jul 2017 OP
enough Jul 2017 #1
lostnfound Jul 2017 #2
lostnfound Jul 2017 #3
lostnfound Jul 2017 #4

Response to lostnfound (Original post)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 11:54 AM

1. Yes yes yes. NT

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Response to lostnfound (Original post)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 01:02 PM

2. THIS is the problem. Why do we spend so much MORE per capita? Needs extensive analysis.

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Response to lostnfound (Reply #2)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 04:17 PM

3. The absurdity of thinking that dropping people out is better than tackling the gap in costs

All that excess is going somewhere. My estimate based on. 2.35% dividend yield (TTM per Fidelity analysis) on the health sector which totals $4.77 Trillion in market cap is that $112 Billion in dividends are being paid. A estimate on the high side perhaps because there's been some growth in market cap over the last year but it's a ballpark.

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Response to lostnfound (Reply #3)

Sun Jul 2, 2017, 06:58 PM

4. Dividends. Examples.

First 3 columns of data are from http://www.dividend.com/dividend-stocks/healthcare/
Last column is from annual reportt

company yield% share dividend. Dividend 2016
Johnson&J 2.54% $132.29 $3.3. $8.6 B (PLUS $7 B stock buyback)
Pfizer 3.81% $33.59 $1.28 $7.4 B
UnitedHealth 1.62% $185.42 $3.00 $2.26 B
Aetna 1.32% $151.83 $2.00 $

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