Happy 4th! Now, let's have another beer and blow some shit up!

[MineralMan]

That was apparently the sentiment in my St. Paul, MN neighborhood over the past five nights. Fueled by fireworks purchased in Wisconsin, but that are illegal in Minnesota, their simulation of a war zone started on Friday night and ended around midnight last night. Just in my immediate area, thousands of dollars went up with a bang and acrid-smelling smoke.

The extended holiday weekend must have been a great economic stimulator across the border in the Great State of Scott Walker. Here, it only stimulated my two dogs to hide under stuff and bark or whimper. Very patriotic, to be sure.

I went outside last night to see who on my block was blowing shit up. For some reason that I can't quite determine, the houses where all that ordinance was being detonated were the same houses that had Trump signs in their yards last year. Go figure.

I didn't say anything to them or call the PD or FD. There's no point to that here. There is no enforcement of fireworks laws. And, after all, they were just celebrating their gawd-given right to consume mass quantities of intoxicants and blow shit up.

Bang! Bam!

{/rant}

[NCTraveler]

1. People are having fun.

It will be over by the end of this weekend. A couple of years ago I was shooting off my illegal fireworks with my old neighbor and his family. He was a police officer. My next door neighbor now is a fireman. He has been shooting off illegal shit for days. He wraps it up by about 9:30 pm.

[MineralMan]

3. And lots of other people (and animals) aren't having fun at all.

For some veteran folks with PTSD, it goes way beyond not having fun, too.

Please pardon my annoyance.

[NCTraveler]

5. Veterans with PTSD are well aware of this time of year.

It will happen again next year.

[MineralMan]

9. Indeed they are.

And, indeed it will.

So?

[NCTraveler]

11. So?

It was something you brought up.

[MineralMan]

28. Yes, it was something I brought up.

So, can you give me a list of laws you don't follow because you want to do things they prohibit? Is the idea that we should follow laws only if we agree with them? Is it that you believe that if you don't like a law you don't have to follow it?

Please help me understand why it's OK to use illegal fireworks because you like to do that. And why it's OK for a cop to shoot off illegal fireworks, but to enforce other laws. I'm not understanding where that privilege comes from, actually.

So, which laws do you follow and which do you ignore?

[NCTraveler]

29. That is on a case by case basis.

"So, which laws do you follow and which do you ignore?"

I have broken drug laws, firework laws, traffic laws, etc. these are just some of the more common ones I break. It pretty common in the US. I get that you have never done such a thing. I have also broke the law when helping a friend get away from her abusive husband. Would do it again in a second.

I don't get where you are coming from. These things are extremely common in society, which you have acknowledged.

That privilege comes from generally accepted norms in society.

[MineralMan]

32. OK. So it's OK for you to break some laws, on a "case by case basis?"

So, is it OK for other people to break other laws that you wouldn't, on the same "case by case basis?" Which ones would you say it was OK for other people to break? I mean, if we're going to have selective law-breaking, I need some guidelines.

I don't knowingly break any laws, and haven't for decades. I don't use drugs that are illegal. I obey traffic laws, including speed limit laws. I don't steal stuff. I don't blow up stuff. I don't assault people. I don't park illegally, either.

I have helped women escape from abuse, but I've done that by talking to them and helping them find safe shelters. As far as I know, that's not breaking the law.

Where I'm coming from is a belief that we should avoid breaking laws and work to change laws we think are unfair.

I'm coming from a place where I believe that I don't get to choose which laws I follow and which I do not. I believe that because, if I can violate some laws I disagree with, others can do the same and violate laws I think should be followed. If I violate some laws knowingly, how can I expect others to follow other laws? We have lots and lots of laws that have been enacted to prohibit people from doing lots of things. Generally such laws are enacted to protect people, their property, and their rights. Societies have laws, and it's a damned good think they do.

But, you feel you can violate laws, if you want to do so. Does that not apply to others who violate laws they disagree with? Why, then, should someone not come and steal your junk, if they feel they need it more than you do? Why should someone not have sex with underaged people if they believe that is their right to do?

Work to change laws you dislike. Speak out against those laws. But, as members of this society, we can't legitimately break laws and at the same time expect others to follow the law. That seems pretty simple to me.

However, I'm a believer in civil disobedience when laws appear to me to be immoral or unjust. However, if I engage in civil disobedience, I do so knowing that I may pay a price for that. I accept that there may be consequences for breaking a law in protest against that law.

However, laws prohibiting explosive and otherwise dangerous fireworks have good reasons for being laws. Each year people are injured and property is damaged by such fireworks. Traffic laws are designed to maximize safe use, by everyone, of our roads and highways. Laws against violent acts are there to protect people from violence. Drug laws are designed to prevent people from using substances that may harm them. If those laws are poorly written or prevent people from doing harmless things, then they can, and should be changed. In the meantime, I follow the laws.

You apparently, by your own statements, believe that it's OK for you to violate some laws, on a "case by case" basis. I disagree with you on that.

[NCTraveler]

34. Case by case basis that stay in line with societal norms.

Extremely common and understood by most. I don't have a problem when others conform to societal norms in most instances. When I do have a problem with it, I work to change it. That is one of the reasons many of us are politically active. This is really simple stuff. It's also why next years Fourth of July will be the same for you.

[Rorey]

10. I try hard to tolerate on the 4th

"Tolerate" is the least negative thing I can say about fireworks.

I just really don't understand how otherwise law-abiding citizens are okay with breaking the law at this time of year. They're basically teaching their children that if you don't agree with a law, it's okay to break it. (if you have to hide what you're doing when law enforcement drives by, maybe you shouldn't be doing it.)

Also, that it's okay to disregard safety and comfort of our furry friends and our neighbors who have issues with the noise, for whatever reason. Today a whole lot of people will be posting ads about their lost pets. The ones that really make me shake my head are those they say, "While we were gone...." Dammit, stay home with your pets on the 4th. Comfort them.

[NCTraveler]

12. Please. Please. Please.

"Dammit, stay home with your pets on the 4th. Comfort them."

Not just so they don't get out or injure themselves, but to comfort them.

[Rorey]

16. For years, our 4th was spent cuddling our dogs

Our Aussie mix was so bad the last 4th that we had him that I though he wasn't going to make it. We no longer have pets, other than the one feral cat we've been taking care of since we said goodbye to our last dog a couple of years ago. We'd have taken him in the house if he would have come in, but he'll never be that tame. He's lived at least 8 1/2 of his nine lives, I think. He wasn't around at all yesterday, but he did show up this morning for breakfast.

[MineralMan]

13. People are funny in some ways.

Often, they only endorse breaking laws with which they disagree, or which interfere with their own desires.

Laws against explosive and aerial fireworks are designed to protect people from being injured and to prevent fires. They're sensible laws created for good reasons. However, some people like fireworks and are willing to violate those laws because they want to do their own DIY fireworks displays. All too often, such laws are not enforced in many cities. Where I am, that's because it would take far too much manpower, and the police and fire departments don't want to be out enforcing those laws and maybe be delayed on emergency calls for injuries and fires.

Like many laws, those prohibitions on explosive and aerial fireworks depend on sensible people to follow them. In this case, that doesn't work all that well, apparently, since so many people violate the laws.

I realize that my rant will have no effect. The same stuff has happened every year I've lived here, and will continue to happen. Fortunately, there were no fires in my neighborhood and I didn't hear of any serious injuries. However, I'm sure I'll be reading about such things in other neighborhoods tomorrow.

But, hey, it's fun to blow shit up. I guess that justifies it all.

[Rorey]

19. Every year I hope for a complete ban

I also hope for a downpour. We didn't get either this year.

I listened to the online scanner for about an hour last night and there were several fires during that time. There was also a fight between neighbors because someone's car started on fire when someone else's fireworks went underneath it.

We don't waste anyone's time calling in violations on the 4th, but my husband did call police dispatch the previous night when some people were shooting off their big bombs. They do it every year and never get ticketed. They're a block away from us and my house was shaking from their explosions. I find myself wishing bad things upon them, and other violators. I don't like to have those feelings. I think I'm better than that, but I guess I'm not.

[MineralMan]

22. Well, they're banned here in my city, but there

is no enforcement and we're right near the Wisconsin border and it's fireworks stores. Without enforcement, the law is useless, I'm afraid. I don't call because there is no response.

But, yes, every year there are fires and injuries caused by the stuff. Every year.

[Rorey]

23. They probably respond eventually here

What good does it do to have a marked police car do the responding? They won't ticket unless they see it happening, and the violators will stop when they see the police. I wish they'd patrol on the days preceding the 4th with unmarked cars, but one has to conclude that they actually condone what the violators are doing. I know at least one police officer lives on the next block over where the bombs that shake my house are being set off prior to the 4th. For all I know, it could be him/her who is doing it.

[old guy]

33. Unfortunately,

It will not be over by the end of this weekend. I live in Polk co. Wi. and fireworks is on the menu year round. Weddings, birthdays, graduations, anniversaries, and yes even funerals bring out the explosions. 9:30 pm is just the start time for the aerial displays, but for the plain noise makers any time goes. Zero law enforcement, not because they can't, but because they won't.

[NCTraveler]

35. We have them regularly for events as well.

Mostly baseball games. The Clearwater Threshers have an impressive show at the end of each home game. Most of the ones in my area for special events are well regulated.

This is at the end of every home game.

https://m.

[kacekwl]

37. In my neighborhood it starts in last two weeks of June

and continues until they have no more. Usually 2-3 days past the 4th.

[NCTraveler]

38. Money to burn. Literally. Nt

[jmg257]

2. I don't usually have a burger, a braut AND a steak - but hey! Its July 4th!

Beer is a given.

[pangaia]

4. Not to appear for or against your comments but,,

you should, or maybe should not, be in any city, or even small village in China during Spring Festival( New Year).

[MineralMan]

6. I've not been to China. Thanks for the warning.

[pangaia]

40. LOL....

talk about fireworks. :&gt )
The most difficult thing about Spring festival in China is trains!!

Don't even try it..

But the food! Oh My !!!

[Coventina]

41. I was in Bangkok for New Year's Eve once.

I have never heard so many fireworks going off at once, ever!!!!



(And this was "Western" New Year!)

[pangaia]

42. Oh that must be great..

I was never there for New Year, just July and then later August..

[Siwsan]

7. My backyard is full of fireworks debris, "courtesy" of my neighbors

I can still smell the chemical/sulphur stench. There are cardboard orbs, discs and tubes, chunks of some sort of granular chemicals, plastic spinners EVERYWHERE, including right next to my house. I don't know if they landed there, or rolled off of my roof. Now I have to go out and start collecting all of this trash, so I can get the lawn mowed.

Next year, I am going to buy a really powerful oscillating sprinkler and turn the water on, full volume, over my back yard - aiming towards the street, which is where they 'stage' their 'fun'.

I'd dump everything I collect onto their lawn, but their house is up for sale, and I don't want to do ANYTHING to prevent a sale.

[bullwinkle428]

8. The now-Republican controlled Iowa state legislature passed

a law legalizing all kinds of fireworks that were previously prohibited. Each neighborhood I've been in over the last several days has become a virtual war zone at night. Supposed to be a 10:00 PM curfew, but that's totally ignored.

[Adrahil]

14. I enjoy fireworks, but....

... before I went to college, I was an EMT for 2 years. We had at least one person every year who blew their fingers off. After you sweep a yard to find blown off fingers, the enthusiasm dampens a bit. They are almost always too damaged to reattach anyway.

[MineralMan]

18. I used to enjoy fireworks, but always went to

professional fireworks shows. I stopped doing that, though, after a fireworks show at a lakeshore near my home in California ended badly. For some reason, one of the mortar tubes being used got out of alignment, and the charge went off at a shallow angle, instead of vertically. That particular firework exploded just a few feet above the audience sitting by the shoreline, burning several people. Nobody was horribly injured, but a lot of people had to be treated by the standby paramedics and a couple were hospitalized.

That was my last fireworks display. Well, except for the ones on my block. I stay indoors and try to calm down our dogs, instead. They survive the show, but are pretty miserable during it. Happy 4th, neighbors!

[MineralMan]

15. For those who think this doesn't matter:

Do these searches on Google and click the News tab:

https://www.google.com/search?q=fireworks+set+house+on+fire

https://www.google.com/search?q=fireworks+injuries

Didn't happen on your block? You set off illegal fireworks safely?

Really?

[yallerdawg]

17. I have all the confidence in the world...

that our Founding Fathers envisioned this one day...



Alabama roofing company giving away AR-15 with every roof

[MineralMan]

20. No doubt.

That guy must be the one that lives a few houses away from mine. On New Years Eve, he's out at midnight, firing a hundred rounds or so from his AR-15 clone. Where the bullets fall, I have no idea. Neither does he.

He's also one of the major fireworks exploders on my block. I don't loan him tools or help with his projects. "Sorry. I'm tied up right now and my snowblower just is running funny..."

[Marengo]

36. Is he firing into the air?

[Rorey]

21. Oh my!

That's pretty sickening.

[yallerdawg]

24. There's more!

[Rorey]

25. "merica, baby" NT

[irisblue]

39. What the heck#!!

And people wonder...

[Renew Deal]

26. Why don't you love America as much as this guy?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1017&pid=446721

[MineralMan]

27. Jebus! What a moron!

[Buns_of_Fire]

30. I pretty much gave up serious fireworks when I was 14.

That was the year I put a cherry bomb into a full jar of baby food and lit it. And didn't have enough sense to run like hell WAY outside the danger zone or get behind something.

So there I stood, bleeding like a stuck pig from multiple glass shards, splattered with creamed carrots, and wondering how I was going to get back in the house and clean up without giving my mother a heart attack on the spot (for a former nurse, she had an amazing intolerance for blood).

So I downsized to bottle rockets until I saw another kid just hold the end in his hand and launch it manually, so to speak. I thought that looked like fun. After the second-degree burns on my hand and a ruined shirt...

I downsized to sparklers. Until I dropped a lit one on my leg and then picked it up to throw it away by grabbing the wrong end.

These days, I limit myself to those little things you throw on the pavement and they go *pop*. So far, so good.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

31. My neighborhood was noisy, too, but I live only a few blocks from a park

where there was a real, legit fireworks display. I watched part of it. I love real fireworks. There was also the usual popping and sizzling of firecrackers and the like from a nearby back yard; if there were illegal fireworks going on as well I couldn't tell because of the noise from the legal ones. My cats were unfazed - an occasional ear twitch was their only reaction. But I know dogs tend to be much more upset by sudden loud noises, and I wish people would be more considerate of their neighbors and dogs. The real fireworks display had a scheduled start and end time so people knew when to expect the noise, but you never know when some beer-drinking yahoo decides it would be fun to shoot off illegal fireworks in the middle of the night.

[ileus]

43. This year we didn't even have to drive to TN to buy "the good stuff"

Actually it was an off year for us we had a surplus of "mortars" from last 4th, so we only had to supplement our stock a little. My son always insist on putting off a show for the neighbors. This year we cut it short by doing the "show" before we went a few miles the road to a local church that always has a big display.