Christian retailer Hobby Lobby stole Middle East history to make a bible museum in Washington DC

[spanone]

`When Hobby Lobby’s CEO Steve Green traveled in 2010 to the Holy Land-as the Biblically minded like to call Israel and a swath of the greater Middle East-to inspect and make an offer on what turned out to be 5,500 pieces of looted Iraqi cuneiform and other objects, he was setting off on a mission that continues to this day.

The fundamentalist Green family has poured $800 million into a Bible Museum so close to the National Mall in Washington, D.C., that domestic and foreign tourists who don’t read the fine print will think it’s a U.S. government project.

Now, the ancient Mesopotamian cultural relics that Hobby Lobby intended for display in that museum, with its glass ark on top and shiny high-tech displays inside, must be turned over to federal authorities in New York, according to a complaint filed Wednesday by federal prosecutors in Brooklyn.

The feds have been looking into Hobby Lobby’s collection ever since keen-eyed clerks at a U.S. customs office in Memphis in 2011 opened several Fed Ex packages labeled as hand made tiles form Turkey. The “tiles” turned out to be thousands of rare cuneiform tablets, dating to the Sumerian and Babylonian era and the dawn of writing.

http://www.newsweek.com/hobby-lobby-iraq-antiquities-evangelicals-632434

[DK504]

1. $800 million...They were fined $3 million.

When will the trail begin? How many charges will be filed? Taking bets on the amount of jail time any one will get.

What will the countries they stole from demand for these horrible crimes. The irony of course is putting polytheistic items in a "Christian" museum.

[Initech]

3. My guess is zero.

They won't spend a single minute in a prison cell. They're white Christian billionaires. The snowflakes will find some way to get out of jail without serving.

[Orrex]

7. But if you shoplifted a paintbrush from them, they'd push for you to do hard time

[Initech]

16. Yeah that is very true.

One of these days the billionaires will get theirs.

[tblue37]

24. They've already gotten theirs--and yours and mine and everyone else's. nt

[niyad]

25. the last time I set foot in a hobby lobby (YEARS ago now) I noticed a sign posted in the

very dark hallway leading to the restrooms. it basically said that entering their store gave them permission to search you at any time, to search your vehicle, anything they wanted, because basically you are all thieves. (hmmm, projection there, hl?)

I found the manager, said that since they assumed all their customers were thieves, I would simply remove myself, as that is not the way one builds good customer relations, and it wasn't terribly christian of them. and, if that was the way they felt, they should at least have had the courage of their narrow, sick little viewpoint, and posted it in plain sight on the entryway.

[Orrex]

41. Yes, they're a model of Christian compassion

I haven't set foot in one since I learned of their hatred of women. Prior to that, I was aware of their aggressively foregrounded faux-Christianity, but I didn't really care.

Once I heard about their anti-contraception contraception policy, I decided that they can go fuck themselves.

[niyad]

42. I was appalled when I first learned of their faux-xian and anti0woman nonsense, long before the

court cases. About the same time I learned about chik fil'a (whose food was crap anyway, and who in the HELL charges extra for lettuce and tomato on a burger????)

years ago, was in a resale shop with a friend, and noticed the xian yellow pages at the front counter. I looked at my friend, and said, "oh, how nice of them to provide such a handy list of shops to avoid". The person behind the counter beamed, until I added, "namely, all the shops listed in that book"

[Marengo]

44. Wouldn't that be true of any retailer who takes loss prevention measures?

[niyad]

46. right. because any retailer can follow you from the store, search your car, etc.,

and they are so proud of this that they post the notice of their intent in a dark hallway.

righhhhhht.

[Marengo]

66. Depending on store policy and jurisdictional allowances, I believe they can at least follow...

And attempt apprehension outside the store. A quick Google read suggests some retail policies require the suspect to actually exit the store so as to establish intent. As far as the sign is concerned, I recall having seen something similar locally posted in the area (a hallway in the back) where the restrooms were located. Was the sign you notice near the restrooms in the store you visited?

[niyad]

67. perhaps you should read the post

[Marengo]

68. By the restrooms it is. I've seen this before in other retailers, doesn't strike my as especially

Unusual or nefarious.

[niyad]

75. then perhaps you are not paying attention. such a thing should be posted at the front of

the store, not down some dark hallway in the back that a person may not see. and, given what scum hobby lobby is, nefarious is exactly the word.

[Marengo]

76. I've seen similar signage in other stores posted by the restrooms, often located in hallways...

Off of the main area. Are they "nefarious" for doing so as well?

[niyad]

77. YES.. what part of this do you not understand? tell me why such statements are hidden,

and NOT posted out front. what are they hiding?

[Marengo]

78. What I don't understand is your assumption they are hiding something. What do you think they...

are hiding?

[niyad]

79. it was clearly stated. I cannot help it if you refuse to see it.

[Marengo]

80. Isn't ANY store that implements ANY loss prevention measure assuming at least some of it's...

Customers are thieves? As I've said, I've seen similar signage located similarly in other retailers as well, so the practice is not limited to Hobby Lobby.

[niyad]

82. reading comprehension is your friend.

[Marengo]

85. That isn't an answer to what I asked. At any rate, from what I understand there are legitimate...

Reasons why a store may not post such signage near the entrance or some other highly visible areas. One of which is that it can give some customers the impression that particular location may have a problem with crime and not very safe. It can actually deter some clients by making them anxious. Others may become offended by the impression they are automatically assumed as thieves. This comes from an acquaintance of mine who is a retail manager.

[Old Vet]

83. The point is even though they are very aggresive in stopping theft...........

They go overseas and buy artifacts that are a big no-no as in illegal. Big time fucking illegal.

[Marengo]

84. Was this known years ago when the incident described by that poster occurred?

[kcr]

90. Why is that even relevant?

You are just determined to defend Hobby Lobby to the death.

[Marengo]

91. Uh, it's relevant to my discussion with that poster about the incident which occurred YEARS ago.

Unless it it was known that Hobby Lobby was illegally acquiring artifacts at the time the incident occurred, it's not relevant in relation to the posters reasons for confronting management.

[herding cats]

18. The actual amount they paid for the stolen artifacts was $1.6 million.

They've dumped $800 million total into their "museum" in DC. Overall they lost $4.6 million, which isn't even a drop in the bucket for them.

The true icing on the cake is that the money they paid for these stolen artifacts most probably went to fund the terroist group ISIS. Which was likely seen as a win-win for these extremist evangelicals. They managed to help keep the world inflamed against muslims, and thought they were gaining the artifacts stolen from Iraq in the process.

[progressoid]

43. Hey, they only made $3.7 billion in 2015.

Times are tough for them.

[Missn-Hitch]

47. Arts/craft sales alone? Can't be.

Candida Moss is coming out with a book about Hobby Lobby. Princeton University Press, October 2017. I am eagerly awaiting to read up on these folks.

[jmowreader]

53. They have over 600 stores.

$3.4 billion sounds about right.

[LiberalFighter]

58. I look at it this way after reading the article.

They had to return the real artifacts. Whatever they paid they won't get the money back.

Most of the artifacts they do have in their museum are likely fake and they spent outrageous amounts for it. This needs to be publicize as much as possible so that their museum becomes a dump.

If they aren't fake they need to question whether they stole it.

[Initech]

2. Hey Steve, you should try actually reading that Bible sometime.

Because it clearly says "Thou shalt not steal". You got caught red handed. Fuck you and your museum!

[FiveGoodMen]

28. Christians only read the Bible verses that their preachers tell them to

[Mariana]

32. But it doesn't say, "Thou shalt not purchase stolen goods".

Some people really do take the Bible literally. Besides, he gets forgiven his sins, so it's all good.

[Initech]

36. It's a get out of jail free card for the protected class.

They can just say they're "praying for their forgiveness" and all will be forgiven. Nice little scheme they got going. I'm sure Jesus would be proud.

[DetlefK]

4. So... They were smuggling stolen artifacts?

[atreides1]

5. Uh huh!

But it wasn't intentional on their part...the people they purchased the artifacts from lied to them, about what they were buying!

Yeah, right!!!

They knew exactly what they were buying...Green knew what he was buying! I'll bet he was hoping that "God" would blind U.S. customs to what was in the packages!

Just another group of corrupt, lying "Christians"...

[Chiyo-chichi]

15. They were warned in 2010 by an expert in importing cultural artifacts

that the things they wanted to import were likely looted.

They were also warned that the government could seize them.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/07/05/535698988/hobby-lobby-to-forfeit-smuggled-iraqi-antiquities

He did know full well what he was doing and didn't care that he was stealing.

Watch for Pence or someone to intervene and get the $3 million fine rescinded.

[Solly Mack]

6. Doesn't his bible say something about not stealing?

I've read it and I seem to recall passages about not stealing another person's property and even to not remove boundary markers (for land or point of origin, such as claiming the stolen item was from Turkey). Not to mention secular laws against such things.

But what do I know? I'm an atheist. I'm the one considered to be without morals...without scruples.

[sinkingfeeling]

45. Hell, you're not even supposed to covet what another has.

[Solly Mack]

54. Yep.

He claims he made a "mistake". They always do. Intentionally break the law, claim you made a mistake.

[malaise]

8. Western and Israeli plunderers have been looting the Middle East for

centuries. Then they claim the loot as their 'history.

There are days when I just want to jump off of this planet

[lostnfound]

11. TV aired video of "Iraqis" ransacking museums after Shock and Awe..so stupid Americans would believe

TV coverage of the "looting" was substantial and the US was presumed to be innocent bystanders. But conquering armies (I mean, liberators) have an obligation under international agreements to protect cultural treasures and antiquities. The looting was facilitated and allowed, in my opinion.

[malaise]

14. I remember when it was going on

I also remembered pointing out that I had a good idea who was looting what.

I would go further - the looting was orchestrated. Love your 'I mean liberators' - wink wink.

[Raster]

29. I remember quite clearly the rings of armed US Soldiers guarding...

...The Ministry of Petroleum while the museum was looted because the US provided no security, EVEN THOUGH they were told the Museum should be their number one security priority.

[malaise]

62. Maybe it was

Wink!

[lostnfound]

71. Orchestrated, I agree.

So offensive.

[gratuitous]

9. Don't forget the best part

Groups like our old friends Daesh have been seizing and selling artifacts like this to finance their purchase of weapons. I wonder how many victims Steve Green bought with his little oopsie?

Isn't it nice that Green had a spare $800 million just laying around for this monument to his vanity? Tell me again how much the wealthy need more tax cuts.

[Missn-Hitch]

49. Well, with a tax cut they can add a refreshment stand in the museum.

Also a baptismal adjacent to the restrooms. So, you see, a tax cut is needed.

[nikibatts]

10. THOU SHALT NOT STEAL!!

Last edited Thu Jul 6, 2017, 08:07 PM - Edit history (1)

[Raster]

31. oh no no no, it's OK to steal if the plunder is for your Bible museum.

[TEB]

12. But then was it wood v Burrell contraception argument

But they are so right to life they did not want to provide contraception to employees health plan. But they supported Isis buying artifacts. And Isis murders innocent kids women.

[WinkyDink]

13. :-)

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029291647

[spanone]

17. Check out the 'GREEN COLLECTION' over 40,000 antiquities and here's mr. green's excuse....

In a statement, Hobby Lobby President Steve Green said the company "was new to the world of acquiring these items, and did not fully appreciate the complexities of the acquisitions process. This resulted in some regrettable mistakes."

'new to the world of acquiring these items'?

that's a pretty bold lie mr green


Green Collection

The Green Collection is the one of the world's largest private collection of rare biblical texts and artifacts,[1] made up of more than 40,000 biblical antiquities[2][3] assembled by the Green family, founders of national retail chain Hobby Lobby.

The collection will be displayed in the $400 million Museum of the Bible scheduled to open in 2017 in Washington, D.C.[4][5][6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Collection

[SunSeeker]

27. Mr. Green is a thief AND a liar.

He knew EXACTLY what he was doing. He purposefully misdescribed the shipment to avoid detection.

[sinkingfeeling]

48. So, I guess it's the in thing to be 'new' at something and therefore,

not guilty of ant crimes you commit. See 45.

[spanone]

65. YES, where have i heard that before????? hmmmmm

[suffragette]

74. The provenance of every item in that museum should be examined closely. I doubt this instance

Is the first in which he's obtained items illegally.

[Gothmog]

19. I will never shop at Hobby Lobby

[Coventina]

22. After that whole lawsuit over birth control, and finding out they are Mormon,

neither will I.

I'm only sorry I purchased a few things from them before I knew.

[Raster]

34. No no no NOT mormon... worse....

...Pentecostal:

Before the court case, the Greens were already considered a first family of Pentecostalism because of their largesse and the example they set as Christian business owners. Hobby Lobby, based in Oklahoma City, has about $3 billion in yearly revenues and donates millions of dollars in profits to charity.

http://www.toledoblade.com/Retail/2014/07/06/For-the-Green-family-which-owns-Hobby-Lobby-business-religion-are-inseparable.html

[politicat]

86. Gothardism. Which is worse.

https://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2015/05/23/gothards-ati-and-the-duggar-familys-secrets/

Excerpt:
The Duggar family’s involvement in Bill Gothard’s Advanced Training Institute (ATI) homeschool program adds complexities to this story which are unknown to the average person. The underlying principles and beliefs the Duggars have built their lives around actually help groom and shame victims, help hide grievous abuse, and even keep offenders from receiving needed help.

The lessons learned from birth in homes like the Duggar’s strip children of their voice and agency. Starting with blanket training babies and toddlers understand quickly that disappointing a parent leads to swift and painful consequences. As they grow, it becomes clear that simply doing what is expected is not enough. It must be done instantly and cheerfully. Children are even forbidden to seek out the logic behind the request, as kids are prone to do, because that is seen a making excuses or delaying obedience. The consequences of failing to meet these expectations are severe. Gothard and the Duggars believe that spankings are necessary to save a child from their inborn nature to do evil, and these are not just any spankings. The Duggars endorse the child abuse methods taught by the Pearls. Growing up in an environment of fear, where questions are seen as rebellious, eventually makes children unable to speak up for themselves. They become unable to trust their own judgment of what is right and wrong. These children are the perfect targets for abuse; they do not know how to advocate for themselves.
/excerpt

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2014/05/gothards-sex-rules-marital-consent-whats-that.html

(I'm not excerpting this one because it's really important to take it as a whole.)

And from a former fundamentalist (and spouse) who grew up in Gothardism and is now an attorney.
http://fiddlrts.blogspot.com/2015/05/the-duggars-how-fundamentalisms.html

Gothardism makes the most fundamentalist Mormons look easygoing.

[Coventina]

88. Yes, I stand corrected.

And, believe it or not, I was raised under Gothardism!!
(I've posted about this, previously, on this site, although it was some time ago).

Didn't know they were into it, though!

Gah!!!!

[MineralMan]

20. They started translating those cuneiform tablets, and were disappointed.

They revealed nothing very interesting:

From Shedlap the Merchant
Baskets of Rice - 127
Bundles of Papyrus - 32
To Shedlap the Merchant
Pieces of silver paid - 7

[Coventina]

21. A small quibble on my part: They are MORMON. I don't think they qualify as Christian

since they don't believe in Jesus as the Son of God and savior.

I know, dogma and all that. Who cares?

Well, they are also a kooky cult, invented in the 19th century and run basically like an organized crime syndicate.

I understand that most organized religion can be classified as such, but I think Mormonism is an egregious example.

[Raster]

35. The are NOT Mormon...

...they are Pentecostal.

[Coventina]

37. OK, my bad. I was told they were Mormon.

Well, their opposition to Obamacare still will make me boycott them.

They are also anti-Semitic and likely anti LGBTQ.

[Raster]

39. Nope. They are most definitely anti-LGBTQ.

[SunSeeker]

23. Oh the irony.

Maybe now Hobby Lobby can do a museum to the Bible's commandment, "Thou shalt not steal."

[lark]

26. Things like this is the reason my son thinks all claims of Christianity are bogus.

Sadly, in this country at least, so many churches and denominations have forgotten about God and are so focused on RW politics, they've lost their way. I tell him there are true Christians in every sense of the word, who don't hate LGBT, brown people, women, or the poor and who actually help the needy. It's just sadly true that politicians and too many others that claim to be Christians, often are the exact opposite.

[Mariana]

38. The definition of "Christian"

is not "a good, decent person". There are plenty of utterly rotten people who are completely sincere in their Christian faith.

[lark]

40. If they don't follow God's teachings, are they really Christian?

If they teach hate and oppression, can they truly be called Christians?

I tend to think no, that people should be judged by their actions.

[jberryhill]

56. Yeah... in fact....

They live in the confidence that they never had to experience a moment of conscious guilt or shame for any rotten thing they do, because they know their invisible friend forgives them for it every time.

The entire POINT is that they will not be "judged by their actions" because whatever they do, it doesn't matter, they are forgiven.

[3catwoman3]

61. Being forgiven is...

...sooooooooooooooo convenient, isn't it.

But what about the ,"Go and sin no more" part?

[jberryhill]

70. Did they?

Did anyone who was "forgiven" then proceed to "go and sin no more"?

No.

The basic Christian principle is that humans are fallible and cannot help but continue to sin. So, they have to be forgiven again, and again and again.

That's why you have revival junkies who go for the altar call time and again, with the idea that it will "stick" this time around.

The clever ones have figured out that time is not a factor in God's thinking, so once they are forgiven it covers their original sin, various sins of omission and commission up to that point, and all the sins they have yet to commit. These types live as if it would diminish the forgiveness in Christ if they did not take advantage of pretty darn near every convenient opportunity to show how powerful it is.

And, the rest of us are supposed to believe that those who have an invisible omnipotent friend who forgives them for everything are more "moral" than everyone else. Yeah, sure.

[Mariana]

64. Does God judge people by their actions?

According to most varieties of Christianity, entry to heaven is determined by faith, not by behavior. Is it not so?

What do you call rotten people who have sincere faith in Christ? Remember that in many cases, it is their sincere faith in Christ that motivates their hateful behavior. If they aren't Christians, what are they?

[cagefreesoylentgreen]

72. Modern-day Pharisees

[Mariana]

73. You know, the Pharisees started out as good guys.

Even Jesus said their teaching was correct and should be obeyed, even when they didn't follow it themselves. Pharisees are also portrayed positively in the Book of Acts. SOME of them, probably a particular group, did bad things.

If rotten Christians aren't really Christians, then wouldn't it also be true that rotten Pharisees weren't really Pharisees?

[bora13]

30. but, but

but we have authenticity. You can't argue with us.
Look, see the genuine biblical-times piece right here in front of your eyes.
Would Jesus lie to you?

[bucolic_frolic]

33. Jesus loves you. Send a check!

I've never seen a Brinks truck following a hearse, but I'm sure the Christian Right will find a way.

[Ray Bruns]

50. I am confused -

Isn't this the same group of people demanding that the ten commandments be placed everywhere? I guess that whole "Thou shalt not steal or lie" pertains to someone else.

[progressoid]

60. That stuff only applies to other sinners.

They're holier than thou, so they get a pass.

[DinahMoeHum]

51. Hobby Lobby aka Crusader Pigs

Last edited Fri Jul 7, 2017, 07:52 AM - Edit history (1)

n/t

[avebury]

52. From the US DOJ:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/united-states-files-civil-action-forfeit-thousands-ancient-iraqi-artifacts-imported


Earlier today, the United States filed a civil complaint to forfeit thousands of cuneiform tablets and clay bullae. As alleged in the complaint, these ancient clay artifacts originated in the area of modern-day Iraq and were smuggled into the United States through the United Arab Emirates (UAE) and Israel, contrary to federal law. Packages containing the artifacts were shipped to Hobby Lobby Stores, Inc. (“Hobby Lobby”), a nationwide arts-and-crafts retailer based in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, and two of Hobby Lobby’s corporate affiliates. The shipping labels on these packages falsely described cuneiform tablets as tile “samples.”

The government also filed a stipulation of settlement with Hobby Lobby, in which Hobby Lobby consented to the forfeiture of the artifacts in the complaint, approximately 144 cylinder seals and an additional sum of $3 million, resolving the civil action. Hobby Lobby further agreed to adopt internal policies and procedures governing its importation and purchase of cultural property, provide appropriate training to its personnel, hire qualified outside customs counsel and customs brokers, and submit quarterly reports to the government on any cultural property acquisitions for the next eighteen months.

.
.
.
According to the complaint and stipulated statement of facts filed with the court, in or around 2009, Hobby Lobby began to assemble a collection of historically significant manuscripts, antiquities and other cultural materials. In connection with this effort, Hobby Lobby’s president and a consultant traveled to the UAE in July 2010 to inspect a large number of cuneiform tablets and other antiquities being offered for sale (the “Artifacts”). Cuneiform is an ancient system of writing on clay tablets that was used in ancient Mesopotamia thousands of years ago.

In October 2010, an expert on cultural property law retained by Hobby Lobby warned the company that the acquisition of cultural property likely from Iraq, including cuneiform tablets and cylinder seals, carries a risk that such objects may have been looted from archaeological sites in Iraq. The expert also advised Hobby Lobby to review its collection of antiquities for any objects of Iraqi origin and to verify that their country of origin was properly declared at the time of importation into the United States. The expert warned Hobby Lobby that an improper declaration of country of origin for cultural property could lead to seizure and forfeiture of the artifacts by CBP.

[jberryhill]

55. Hobby Lobby's Hobby: Robbing Hammurabi

[politicat]

87. Very, very nice! NT

[keithbvadu2]

57. Christianity honored, enhanced, exemplified, glorified and displayed by theft and fraud.

[ToxMarz]

59. Did they not think anyone would notice them laying around their Bible Museum in the heart

Washington DC and question where they came from/how they got there. Not like they were going to squirrel them away for their "private collection"..

[Achilleaze]

63. hypocrisy is a core republican "value"

It's systemic.

It's very fugly

[WinkyDink]

69. Considering that the ancient Sumerian cylinders describe our creators as the Annunaki, these

artifacts might be a tad out of place in a BIBLE museum!

[hatrack]

81. Now, if they had a display celebrating Ninkasi, I might visit this "museum" . . .

Otherwise, it's starting to look like Ark Experience East.

I mean, why go to some fundie nutball version of Middle Eastern history and archaeology when the Smithsonian is right down the street?

[WinkyDink]

92. But...but...that's SCIENCE!

[oasis]

89. Dirty rotten scoundrels. nt