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shraby

(21,946 posts)
Thu Jul 6, 2017, 01:09 PM Jul 2017

If the job market is at nearly full employment now, that could turn around as baby boomers retire

in larger numbers. Everything will change as they leave the workforce. Smaller houses will become attractive, demographics will change as they move to their choice of retirement location.

16 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,584 posts)
1. Unfortunately a lot of us can't retire.
Thu Jul 6, 2017, 01:13 PM
Jul 2017

I did, but I was lucky - though I still do part-time jobs. But a lot of people lost their jobs during the recession and never got comparable work again because of age discrimination, so they have to keep working as Wal-Mart greeters or whatever just to stay afloat. Retirements will occur but maybe not as fast as one might hope.

TexasBushwhacker

(20,137 posts)
7. I think many boomers will continue to work part time
Thu Jul 6, 2017, 01:44 PM
Jul 2017

and as part of the gig economy. I knew one lady who lost so much value in her retirement savings from the dot.com crash and housing crash that she takes jobs as a pet sitter. My physician cousin ended up retiring about 5 years later than he orginally planned. I'm 60 and can draw SS when I'm 66.5. I figure I will work part time to supplement it as long as I can, then find a tall building to jump off of.

JCMach1

(27,553 posts)
2. In academia boomers never retired and those that did
Thu Jul 6, 2017, 01:20 PM
Jul 2017

Were replaced with adjuncts.

Gen X academics and younger= screwed

LisaM

(27,794 posts)
4. Huh?
Thu Jul 6, 2017, 01:24 PM
Jul 2017

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Many boomers aren't at retirement age, for one thing. Obama is a boomer, e.g. He has obviously gotten to a place where he CAN retire, but there are many of us late boomers still in the workplace, and the collective brainpower of those in academia shouldn't be treated as a commodity, but as a precious resource. If I had a child (which I don't, but I DO have nieces and nephews in college) I would be very grateful if their instructors were boomers, or even older.

shraby

(21,946 posts)
5. The biggest bump in population happened shortly after WWII ended. My brother is one of them.
Thu Jul 6, 2017, 01:35 PM
Jul 2017

He was born in 1947 and has retired. My other brother was born in 1951 and is retiring and was also a boomer.

LisaM

(27,794 posts)
6. Okay, but the late boomers are technically those born up to 1964.
Thu Jul 6, 2017, 01:39 PM
Jul 2017

They are far from retirement, and have plenty left to offer in the workplace, especially in academia.

brush

(53,740 posts)
9. Late boomers have to worry about what happens to many in their 50s
Thu Jul 6, 2017, 03:41 PM
Jul 2017

Some employers look to dump high salaries of those in their peak earning years — those in their 50s — to hire 20-somethings who they can pay half as much.

If that happens to you you soon discover what ageism is as finding a job with comparable income is just about impossible. Just finding a job at all is very elusive.

With drawing Social Security years away, you take lower wage jobs and try not to draw down your 401k or other savings.

It's not a pleasant time in life.

LisaM

(27,794 posts)
11. I have more than one friend who has been laid off and had to deal with ageism.
Thu Jul 6, 2017, 03:48 PM
Jul 2017

No, it's not pleasant, and then I've actually heard people in their 20s flip the "ageist" narrative and say that it's young people who are being discriminated against. Well, we were all young once. I wonder sometimes what's going to happen to people in their 20s now when they hit their 50s. Every generation has its challenges.

politicat

(9,808 posts)
12. Half of the Boomers are at 65.
Thu Jul 6, 2017, 03:51 PM
Jul 2017

The first wave, born in 46, started hitting retirement in 2011-12. We're halfway through the bulge.

But yes, in academia, it's vile. We've got 70+ emeriti in my department who were Freudian trained and don't accept that statistics are evidence. While we've got bioinformatic-trained behaviorists with recent training who are just SOL.

They're teaching bad psych science.

LisaM

(27,794 posts)
13. I'm coming at this from a different perspective.
Thu Jul 6, 2017, 03:59 PM
Jul 2017

I have two friends (older than me, around 70) who were both history professors, and who at one time were each department chairs at a major state university. The history department can barely attract students at this point, much less professors of their caliber, and all the knowledge they've both built up over the years will soon be lost.

I don't think Freudism is by its nature anti-empirical and I also think new perspectives add to the whole narrative, but I shudder at an academia with nothing but adjuncts and a total dismissal of institutional knowledge. Not to mention that long-term academics also flat out can be better teachers than part-timers.

politicat

(9,808 posts)
14. I do not generally disagree with you, except that we have no middle track.
Thu Jul 6, 2017, 04:43 PM
Jul 2017

I think emeriti are not an inherent problem. (Even when having these dolts governing department policy is like having Flat Earthers in charge of the Geology Department or LaMarckians running bio.) Though again, people trained with the Victorian, or even the early mid-century, view of history are not necessarily an asset, given how racist, sexist and elitist the conventional wisdom was.

Here's the issue as it specifically pertains to my state university:

They got their negotiated tenure contracts in the early to mid 70s, when their life expectancy was 72 or 73. Their contracts cover pensions that kicked in when they were 65, plus they remain on full salary as long as they take one class or one research project per academic year. Full salary after 40 years is considerable. Their salaries are fully half of the departmental budget. (And there aren't that many of them. It's not the 1%ers, but the ratio of Senate to House is close.)

Now, they also feathered their nests in the 80s by failing to approve tenure for their rising colleagues coming out of the more proven and more reproducible behaviorist schools of thought, so there is a 10 year institutional knowledge gap right there. In the early 90s, the governing board started demanding they fill some of the positions with people with a scientific basis, but the money wasn't there for tenure (because universities work on a use it or lose it basis, and the philosophical fight over the Dirty Old Cokehead meant losing half of those tenured seats. Which the Freudians were fine with, because then they could keep up their scam of therapy only exists for the the white, upper class, worried well who are willing to commit to 104 appointments a year at $100 each. Also, they're still fighting a hot war (as 'iatrists) against the 'ologists and that's not helping). So for another decade, everyone came on as "tenure track" but at adjunct to associate funding, and didn't stay because they got better offers elsewhere. Another decade of knowledge lost. Part of it was state funding, the Reagan Administration and the 80s backlash against academia, but that wasn't the whole story.

We finally got tenure funding coming back in the early Oughts, but there's less than there should be, and it's not rising fast enough, and we've still got to pay those emeriti salaries.

I'm the oldest of the young'uns in my department, at 41. The next person above me is 62. That's the 21 year gap resulting from this small group's war on behaviorism. Guess who still controls our funding? It's not me. We young'uns have just accepted that we have to grub for grants, like every other scientist. It's fine. I have resisted the tenure track on purpose, because it's a bad model for neuropsych, and we need to stop drilling the very dry hole that was early 20th century psych. We cover the origins in 101 and 102. And that's where it must stop, because the model is bad, it's harmful, and it's ineffective. We need collaboration with mathematicians, statisticians, chemistry, pharmacology, neural imaging, and microbiology far more. But for us, we're going to have to wait for the emeriti to die, because they're still fighting the war against spreadsheets. And they can't be eased out or fired, while our contracts are toilet paper. That part is a direct result of the Reagan admin.

Yes, it's dysfunctional. That is clear. But this is what an adherence to preserving institutional knowledge is worth. Institutional knowledge can be wrong, and perpetuating objectively wrong science harms everyone.

Here's the thing -- if it was one department, fine. That's just a sick system. It's not. We've got this rot in multiple departments and across many public and private universities. There was a nasty backlash in the 80s, and the reverb is still smacking rising academics. I believe in tenure for the academic freedom of expression it engenders. That is incredibly valuable and I don't want any of us fired for stating an unpopular opinion. However, entrenchment isn't in science's best interest.

LisaM

(27,794 posts)
15. My friends were history professors and about as far from Flat Earthers as you can get.
Thu Jul 6, 2017, 05:11 PM
Jul 2017

One taught Ancient Greek history and worked very robustly with other departments, particularly as it concerned recent archaeological discoveries (they worked with metallurgists, people who did infra-red mapping, etc). They were both frequently tapped for the public lecture series the history department gives, and continued to bring fresh perspectives and ideas into play. I'm sure their pay was quite high, but I also think universities have gotten way too heavy into administration pay and are starving the academic side. I have a friend who used to work in the IT department at the same university and her complaint was that professors made "too much" and that IT workers didn't make as much as they could in industry jobs. To my mind, good professors are the absolute jewels of a university and should be compensated as such. Clearly I don't know a lot about neuro-psych, but I do know a lot about history, and the loss of these two great professors to the university left a gaping hole. They clung to their jobs longer than they would have because of it, I'm sure.

aikoaiko

(34,162 posts)
16. As a GenXer I was lucky to get my PhD in '99 and land a TT position just before the dotcom bust
Thu Jul 6, 2017, 05:15 PM
Jul 2017


After the dotcom bust, 9-11, the Bush2 recession, tenure-track jobs in academia really did become scarce.

All the boomers in my department retired and now I'm the "old cranky professor" at 18 years.

LonePirate

(13,408 posts)
8. I'm not sure if full employment means what you think it means.
Thu Jul 6, 2017, 02:13 PM
Jul 2017

The mass retirement of baby boomers will possibly lower the unemployment rate if employers fill their positions. Thus full employment becomes fuller employment unless those not actively looking for work decide to rejoin the workforce population.

Hekate

(90,551 posts)
10. Too funny. Get laid off for cheaper younger employees, get a job at Home Depot or Walmart.
Thu Jul 6, 2017, 03:47 PM
Jul 2017

Oh, the thrills of full employment.

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