Flash: Air travel sux. I was an airline pilot for 30+ years.

[trof]

I started in 1968 after 7 years in the USAF.

TWA (Trans World Airlines) was owned by Howard Hughes for a time and was a major U.S. international carrier until their final bankruptcy in 2000.

Airline deregulation did them (and many other airlines) in.
American Airline picked up the remains.

Back in the day coach travel was pretty close to what we accept for so-called first class now. Everyone got fed a pretty decent meal, for free. I think alcoholic drinks were half a buck.

If there was any kind of delay or other inconvenience to my passengers I'd declare free drinks.

Anyway...
Today I will not fly.
Period.
I'm 6'3", 250, and I don't fit coach seats any more.
Or they don't fit me.

We travel from Alabama to New England twice a year to be with our daughter and family.
We drive.
1500 miles.
Each way.
That's how bad it's gotten.

We enjoy our road trip.
Listen to audio books.
See the sights at ground level.

The next thing I want is an AUTOmobile.
Just get in, kick back, and leave the driving to the computer.
Oh yeah.

[pirateshipdude]

1. I am with you on this. Total lack of any kind of control over a situation with Airlines.

In turn, I have a lot of wonderful vacations driving to our destination. We have to take more time off, too, which is a plus.

[47of74]

26. If I could drive to Europe I would.

That's how much I'd rather not fly on airlines.

[pirateshipdude]

30. Agreed. There is always Canada. Eom

[LakeVermilion]

56. Two or three trips from Minneapolis/St. Paul to Huntsville a year...

My wife and I can do the 1000 miles in one day through Iowa, St. Louis, Nashville and south. About 15 hours with stops.

[47of74]

67. One time I went from eastern Iowa all the way out to western Nebraska

Back in late 2004 the company I did some work with had an assignment where they needed me to be way out in western Nebraska (I think Bridgeport).

I think it was close to 800 miles. I did it in about 13 hours. I got there and none of the equipment needed for the assignment had arrived, it was delayed several days. They released us to go back home since it was obvious it wasn't going to be there for a while. By the time they released us it was noon already so they got me a hotel room in Lincoln then I drove the rest of the way the following day. I got a pretty good chunk of change though for the mileage since I used my own car.

In 2015 I did a trip to the western states where I flew out to Portland, rented a car, and drove back home to Iowa. Most days I averaged about 450 miles. Of course I went and did stuff along the way so I'd leave one hotel early in the morning and not get to the hotel until late in the evening. If I'm driving straight through I can do 450 miles in about 7 hours, give or take. If it wasn't for the rental car having problems 1/2 way home and needing to be switched out it would have been a great vacation. I want to do a trip like that again sometime.

[LakeVermilion]

105. To be honest...I share driving with my wife.

She likes to drive fast. Its led to a few spats over the years.

[csziggy]

97. I'm thinking of taking a ship to visit the UK

I last flew in 1990. It sucked and the seats were larger then. The airline employees contempt for the passengers has gotten worse and I don't even want to think about dealing with TSA.

We tried a train trip last fall and I was OK with it but my husband can't sleep in a moving vehicle plus he is too tall for their bunks. So for in country trips we will drive - well HE will drive and I get to navigate and hang out.

Someday I hope to get to the British Isles so that means a ship. Relocation cruises from Florida to North Europe in the spring are relatively cheap depending on what size cabin we can handle. And they are cheap on the way back in the fall if we decide to stay in the UK for that long.

In preparation we've talked about taking a short trial cruise to the Bahama - that is basically two and a half days. get on the ship one afternoon, arrive in the Bahamas the next day, Spend two days there, leave the Bahamas the morning of the fourth day, and get back the Cape Canaveral that afternoon.

A group we're both members of have a cruise planned for next spring and I am considering taking that. It will be more expensive than hunting around for a deal but it would give us people we know to visit with and activities we enjoy. Since we don't drink, gamble, swim, or enjoy most of the activities on most ships, traveling with a group is a good option for us.

If we like it, we can then plan on a longer cruise. We need to decide soon - my husband has never had a passport and my only one expired around the time Ronald Reagan was sworn into office. So we'd need to apply for those and figure out what else we have to do to go outside the US.

[smirkymonkey]

2. I hate flying. I hate everything about it.

I wish we would invest in high-speed rail in this country, but it will never happen if the republicans have their way.

[Fritz Walter]

31. Agreed!

I've traveled across Europe by rail and know first-hand how air travel pales in comparison.
Here, travel via Amtrak is not a viable option except in the northeast corridor. I do see the Auto-train rumble through my neighborhood en route between Lorton VA and Orlando FL, but -- from what I can see -- the passenger cars are mostly empty.

A private enterprise fast-rail company wants to operate in the tourist-rich corridors in central and south Florida, but getting Americans to choose rail or driving over air seems insurmountable.

And now Drumpf wants to cut Amtrak services throughout the country.

As Arlo Guthrie sang in The City of New Orleans, "This train got the disappearing railroad blues."

[smirkymonkey]

36. I loved traveling through Europe by train!

I live in the northeast and I use Amtrak frequently. It's great, you can plug in your computer and work on the train and there is a cafe car. You can get up and walk around. When I take the Downeaster to Maine I often take business class because it is so inexpensive and such a pleasant way to travel. People always seem so much more pleasant on trains and less stressed. People on planes always seem so irritated and grumpy.

[lunasun]

55. +1 so many places have high sped rail now .....of course not us

[WinkyDink]

64. Ditto to everything you wrote. I live in a train-free zone between NYC and Philly.

[csziggy]

98. I love flying - that is why the airline pattern of abuse of customers sucks

I've only flown a few times - a trip from North Carolina to Florida in the 1960s was wonderful and fun. In 1977 one from Tallahassee to Tampa - in which I was "lost" because the plane was fogged in at Tallahassee, my ride was told it had been re-routed to Orlando but I arrived an hour late in Tampa. At least the airline was concerned about the passengers and tried to keep us updated and happy The return from that trip was fun - I hitched a ride back on a company jet - flew out of Bartow airport on a Lear, got to sit up front and watch over the pilots' shoulders most of the way to Tallahassee. That was intensely cool.

Every flight since has been a hassle and uncomfortable - all two trips I have taken. The last one was bad enough I swore off flying since. Unless I can take a private jet or First Class, I am not going to fly. Considering the cost of those options, I probably will never fly again.

[AgadorSparticus]

3. I don't blame you. They have killed flying and have made it such a painful experience

Plus, everyone is incredibly crammed in. I am a 5'4" female weighing 135lbs and I feel absolutely stuffed in like a sardine. I can't imagine anyone bigger than me flying coach.

[47of74]

22. I'm 6'0 and not exactly a stick figure

More like several stick figures bundled together. Flying is not fun for me. It's downright painful for me.

I'm having a vertical sleeve gastrectomy that hopefully will help with getting the extra set of tires I'm carrying to go away. I'm hoping that flying won't be quite as painful after some of the weight comes off but I'm not holding my breath. The way the airlines are going with seats I doubt even a stick figure would feel comfortable in them.

[AgadorSparticus]

48. I can't imagine what flying would be like for you. That must be awful.

On a side note, you should look at the ketogenic diet. It is incredible. People lose a lot of weight on this diet. It becomes not just a diet but a way of life. And the results are incredible. Just research it, join one of those keto groups on facebook. People posts their results and it is mind blowing. LOTS of people. The success rate is pretty high. Good luck!

[underpants]

4. But deregulation unleashed the masterminds of capitalism

No really it did. They ruined themselves and the industry.

I hope this doesn't sound stupid (like that's ever stopped me) but when we watched "The Amazing Race" I noticed how cheap or reasonable tickets are. Every once in a while you'd hear the price and then I'd look up where they were flying to and from - hey that's Richmond to Chicago or Rischmond to Panama. The planes were the same. Everything else was the same but the prices were much lower. A little digging and I'd find that these were regulated countries. Yes the airline was going to make X return/profit but that's a fixed revenue - no pricing people out of seats.

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

58. Yes...

... my ex wife's family is/was heavily in the airline industry, ramp agents, attendants, 30 year captain's, flight directors... all of these once highly valued career jobs had benefits cut, wages cut, union turmoil... not as great as it used to be, but they are still considered decent jobs.

[WinkyDink]

101. Ahem. The president who de-regulated the airlines was Jimmy Carter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_Deregulation_Act

[Skittles]

5. aw I loved TWA

Braniff and TWA were my favorites "back in the day"

now I stick to Southwest - easy on, easy off....I'm pretty small so I always have room

[Major Nikon]

14. I'm pretty small also

I don't have any problem fitting into the seats, but the thing that worries me on long flights is not having any room left over to move about both in your seat and on the plane itself.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/deep-vein-thrombosis/basics/definition/con-20031922

[Skittles]

53. it's very hard for me to sit still

I am very hyperactive, average 20,000 steps a day (well according to a fitbit)

at work I constantly stand to monitor four consoles

[davekriss]

18. Exactly the same for me

However I'm forced to fly Delta in September. Not looking forward to it.

[AwakeAtLast]

50. I was going to say the same thing!

TWA rocked!

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

59. I loved Western Airlines...

... Denver/Stapleton from/to Sioux Falls/FSD in the late 70's. Coach and I was treated as a young prince! Now days? hahahahahahahaha

[shanti]

77. Western Airlines

the oooooonly way to fly! lol Didn't they get merged into SW?

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

86. Nice 8-Track Flashback...

... that commercial was one of the greatest, also, 'You get 3 feet for your 2 legs on Westerrrrrn Airrrrrliiiines!'

[shadowmayor]

88. Flew Western from LAX to Minneapolis on a prop job

Western folded into Continental then Delta. Anybody remember Hughes Airwest - the flying banana? Or Pacific Southwest Airlines with the smile on the plane? Back in the 1970's folks would fly from southern California to norther California for dinner and come home that night. For those who don't know, deregulation broke up the areas given to airlines, where small towns like Rapid City SD and Fresno CA had much better connection to the main hubs via Western, PSA, Hughes and all the other smaller airlines.

[shanti]

89. Ah, it was PSA

that merged with SW then? Southwest and Alaska are the only planes I fly. I do remember Hughes Airwest.

[regnaD kciN]

60. When I was young, my Dad worked for RCA's international division in Europe...

They had a contract with TWA to provide first-class travel for executives and their families. We flew them transatlantic a number of times. The "Jet Set" 1960s...while, in the popular imagination, the airline portrayed in that scenario is almost always Pan Am, for me, it will always be TWA. The Saaronian terminal at JFK...waiting for our 707 to depart for Paris, Sinatra playing over the stereo headphones on the newfangled in-flight entertainment system...can you get more iconic?

[Skittles]

63. I was three years old when I flew to England the first time

my mum had kids ages 2, 3 and 4 on a transatlantic flight, and not one of us cried the entire way.....she said the crew and passengers complimented her

[PasadenaTrudy]

6. I still love to fly..

even with all the crap they put you through. I mainly fly South West and always have a good flight. Guess I'm just lucky.

[customerserviceguy]

109. Lucky

and probably thin. People of size really have a problem.

[longship]

7. I love flying; I absolutely despise traveling by airplane.

I used to travel at work, a bit, not a whole lot. But I really enjoyed flying in the 60's and even the 70's.

The best flying experience was in the hot rod of the fleet, the Boeing 727. OMFG! That plane could almost literally stand on its tail. When that plane rotated, it REALLY rotated, a completely enjoyable flying experience. And yup, you get pressed back into your seat.

The other exciting experience was a wind shear escapade in a 707 close to when they were taken out of the commercial fleet. This one still had the original engine type. Upon approach to Cleveland the captain came on the intercom asking everybody to bucket up "IMMEDIATELY". The stewards had little time to get everybody settled down before all Hell broke loose. The pilot nosed down to gain lift. It was very scary and some folks were close to panic. Fortunately we were at altitude, and I was an engineer at Boeing Wichita working on the re-engining of the military version of the very plane on which I was flying. There was hardly a panel on the plane that I did not know. A mother and her daughter were seated next to me and they were obviously scared shitless. After all, we were plummeting. But I knew that the pilot was doing the right thing. Nose down and gain airflow. Engines likely at TRT (take-off rated thrust) for that altitude.

I think we plummeted a few thousand feet. And yes, the wings were flapping like birdies, but I knew that airframe fairly well. Upon landing I stopped to tell the pilot that I worked on the KC-135R at Boeing and I thought that he did a tremendous job. All he said was, "Well, thank you very much."

And that was that. BTW, once we got out of the wind shear, the landing in Cleveland was perfect.

You are correct. The airlines have utterly ruined traveling by air. I'd rather walk now, than fly commercial airlines. But boy was it fun in the day?

[AngryAmish]

10. My uncle was on a then record Shannon to NYC run in the 60s.

It was a Monday night, jet stream was nowhere to be found and 12 passengers.

The pilot said he was going to put the hammer down....and took off in about half the runway, ran it full out the entire way. Landed way too fast, but took ten minutes off the record.

[trof]

80. I've done air refueling from KC-135s hundreds of times.

Flew the RF-84/F

[GP6971]

8. My first commercial flight was in 1967

and everyone dressed up. Flying at the time was something you looked forward to and it was a very enjoyable experience. Not today. We flew to Hawaii last month and I upgraded to First Class using miles. It was just OK and definitely not a memorable experience.

And foreign airlines have it all over US airlines....I've recently flown coach on Korean, Asiana, Singapore and KLM and they put US carriers to shame.

[47of74]

15. Yeah when I went to Turkey in 2012

The part of the flight that went to Zurich was SwissAir and I could tell that coach was nicer than coach on US carrier flights. The seats seemed a bit more comfortable than what a US carrier's seats would be - even for someone like me who is most definitely not a stick figure.

I might go to London for my next overseas trip. I'm thinking of using someone like Lufthansa or British Airways then. (And if anyone thinks I'll do United they might want to check the temperature in HELL first).

[GP6971]

25. Haven't flown BA in years

so not sure about them. Lufthansa I hear very good things about from our corporate travelers.

For international I always liked Northwest (even though domestically they sucked) and I flew them to and from Korea in the late 80s. And I noticed a big difference when Delta bought them out. So now when I go to Korea, it's Korean (1) and then Asiana (2).

[LittleGirl]

38. BA is good

but have raised their prices a bit. Hubby has about a million miles on that airline.

I just flew from Zurich to Arizona and took United there and Swiss air back. What a difference! Swiss air was much better than United.

[Canoe52]

65. Check out Iceland Air,

they are running some great sales. My wife and I are going to France in a couple of months!

[Agschmid]

87. I really enjoyed Virgin when I went transatlantic.

[gopiscrap]

94. agreed I flew Swiss Air not too long ago

and it was fantastic

[Siwsan]

9. My favorite mode of travel has always been by rail

I've taken 4 cross country trips, 3 from Flint to Los Angeles and 1 from Flint to Dallas, countless rips from Flint to Chicago, and traveled all over the UK by train.

Of course, most of that is probably coming to an end since they seem determined to cut the funding to Amtrak.

[nolabear]

11. Oh my God they let you fly a PLANE??

Seriously, I almost can't do it now simply because I'm older and sitting as absolutely immobile and cramped as I have to be for four hours (we're all the way across the country from those we'd fly to visit) can make it impossible for me to recover for a couple of days. I think they've found the limit that people can bear, particularly when we're so stressed anyway by the world situation. And the airlines are beyond their capacity to handle things, clearly.

I keep thinking about road trips.I guess we should get out there! At least I can stop and move around when I want and, as you said, enjoy the view.

[trof]

82. Several of them in fact. Damn near anything that said "Boeing" on it.

[Major Nikon]

12. I think there's more to the story than just deregulation

No doubt deregulation is a big part of it, but the age of the internet means it's simple to price compare one airline to another, and the only thing that seems to matter to most people is the price. As such the airlines must shave every nickle and dime they can in order to compete and it simply creates a race to the bottom as far as service goes.

Personally I love flying, but only if I get the best seat on the plane.

[Xolodno]

45. Yeap.

Went to Orlando with the extended family, locked in an airfare I thought reasonable. Some extended family decided to wait, thinking they could get even better. Sure.... About ten bucks at the risk of not getting a good price or arriving on the date planned, thus possibly having a shorter vacation. Oh and they couldn't sit together, they war separated through out the plane in middle seats.

Planning a trip to France and Italy in January, since this is off season, budgeted around $500 bucks per person there and the same back. Looked in early just to create a price alert. The budget carrier Norwegian Air had a price of $250 coach...had no intention flying coach on a budget airline. But then I thought about it, how much different is their coach vs the regular carriers, so it does "get you". Then I had a thought...what about their upgraded classes? $400, for the larger seats, better meal, etc. I booked it. Plus its non stop flight from the west coast.

On the way back, couldn't really score anything however. But its a flight with a layover in Copenhagen, so how many people fly out of there direct to the west coast? Hoping to be able to do a last minute upgrade for cheap.

[customerserviceguy]

110. Flying has evolved into two separate groups

First class, or as I call it, heaven

Cattle class, or as I call it, hell.

[Major Nikon]

112. You can also operate your own plane

or as I call it, freedom. The nice thing about that option is small planes can get into thousands of airports large planes can't.

[customerserviceguy]

116. Well, the entrance price for that is fairly steep

And I have to say, I worry about the pilots of small aircraft who think that the highways are emergency runways:

http://nypost.com/2017/06/30/plane-crashes-bursts-into-flames-on-busy-california-highway/

I'm glad that there were no deaths from the above incident, but it would be a grave tragedy if a motorist who did not avail him or her self of the privilege of flying were to die as a result of a mishap with what is usually a rich person's toy.

[Major Nikon]

117. Not necessarily

There's no shortage of planes available in the $15K range, give or take, and there's also other options like renting, home builts, part ownership, and club options that bring the price of admission down to far less than just a rich person's toy. The odds of dying on a roadway from an errant emergency landing are far less than drowning in your bathtub, so not really worthy of much consideration. It's far better to worry about the other driver next to you.

[customerserviceguy]

119. Ok, its cheaper to be a private pilot than I thought

but when I get into a bathtub or drive on a road, I've agreed to accept the risks involved. Other than when I am boarding an aircraft, I am not so accepting of the risks of someone else flying a machine that is subject to the laws of gravity that may cause my demise.

[Major Nikon]

120. You don't agree to all sorts of risks

You can be sitting in your living room and a car can come through your house and run you over at any given moment. If you walk by a golf course you could be struck and killed by a golf ball. Your neighbor could throw a baseball over your fence and brain you anytime you're outside. On and on it goes.

[customerserviceguy]

122. But, I can minimize many of those risks

My new home in South Carolina has a brick front, which should slow down a wayward car considerably. And while there is a golf course surrounding my development, my house is not near the course. No golfer could hit a ball as far away as my place is. And the other 60+ neighbors I have will not be playing baseball in their back yards.

No one can escape the possibility of destruction that could rain down from the sky because somebody decided he needed his own flying toy, unless I choose to live in a bunker under my house.

[Major Nikon]

123. The point is you'll never be free from risks you don't agree to

There's an infinite number of other ways you could die in a freak accident and if you wanted to mitigate those risks you could always live underground, wear a helmet and kevlar vest at all times, and never venture outside of remote areas. The other point is trying to mitigate a statistically negligible risk very quickly reaches the point of diminishing returns.

A plane is no more of a toy than any other personal mode of transportation. In a world filled with billions of people in any given year you can count the number on the ground killed by errant aircraft with one hand. On the list of things worth worrying about it seems rather low. YMMV.

[customerserviceguy]

124. Well, there's no point in arguing your entitlement

I just wish private pilots would consider cornfields over highways as their emergency runways when it all goes to shit. At least Captain Sullenberger managed to find a river, rather than the Garden State Parkway when he was in an incredibly tough spot.

[trof]

115. In the olden days the CAB* controlled routes and prices.

*Civil Aeronautics Board.
They regulated where and when airlines could fly and how much they could charge for a ticket.
On the one hand it assured that pretty much every airline made a modest profit.
On the other hand, it was very hard to start a new airline.

Since airlines couldn't compete on price, they competed on quality of service.
And boy did some of them lay it on.

Top shelf liquors, kitchens/meals overseen by award winning chefs, beautiful stewardesses is ever shorter uniforms.

At one point, as part of some promotion, TWA's stewardesses wore reinforced paper dresses as their in-flight 'uniform'.



Every guy in the cockpit carried a pair of scissors.
Yes, it was sexist as hell, but that WAS the 50s and 60s and early 70s.
It was the age of the Playboy bunny and the Centerfold.

[Major Nikon]

118. That era is often considered the golden age of aviation

However, the price of admission is far less these days. I haven't done a price comparison, but I suspect a first class ticket today is probably cheaper in todays dollars than a coach ticket back in the 60's.

Personally I'm not really all that big on all the amenities that were available back then. I'd just as soon pack my own meal and forgo the booze. Even first class meals and drinks just aren't all that great and the only really attraction is just being able to get such amenities under the circumstances. Unless I'm the one doing the piloting, commercial air travel is just a way to get from point A to B for me.

[tammywammy]

13. I flew today. It was fine.

I'm 5'4" and overweight but I fit in the seats fine. I don't encroach on the person next to me. They're not the most comfortable seats, but I think it was more comfortable than Bass Hall in Fort Worth.

[tammywammy]

32. The leg room is fine for me.

But again I'm only 5'4". I have a few inches between my knees and the seat ahead of me.

[customerserviceguy]

111. What happens

when the person towards the window from you needs to get up and use the lavatory? That few inches makes a difference then, doesn't it?

I try to avoid drinking liquids for the first several hours before a flight, and on the flight, if I'm in cattle class. If I can avoid a bathroom trip on the flight, it's a plus. Of course, on first class (with miles instead of dollars) I drink like a fish.

[YOHABLO]

16. I read somewhere the airlines are making the money on 1st and business classes.

The rest of us in coach are chump-change. I don't mind flying a short distance. I can get to D.C. in an hour from ATL and that's okay with me. I don't complain too much. I just want a safe trip on a safe plane. With a sober pilot.

[Zorro]

17. Check out a new Tesla with Autopilot 2

Elon Musk's team has already demonstrated they can recover a first stage rocket by landing it on a seagoing platform, and I think he's well ahead of the pack in developing autonomous driving technology. Even Autopilot 1 capabilities are impressive.

[Zorro]

21. Yeah. Comes with the territory these days.

[n2doc]

90. One word- "Thorium!"

Said slowly in a deep, snotty voice wth an ivy league accent....

[oberliner]

24. What if you have to go overseas?

Would you take a boat?

[Doug the Dem]

27. I thought you were talking about Flash Airlines

That would TRULY have sucked!

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

43. That crash bears a remarkable resemblance

to United 585, a 737 that crashed in Colorado Springs in 1991, and USAir flight 427 that crashed near Pittsburgh in 1994.

[AJT]

28. Could the average couple afford to fly back in the day?

[jberryhill]

39. No

[Liberal In Texas]

71. It was a treat.

Sometimes for emergencies.

It was expensive.

[EX500rider]

85. No....costs tons more then today.

TWA 1955 one way, from NY:

Domestic Rates

Los Angeles to Kansas City — $68 in 1955, $575 adjusted for inflation
Chicago to New York — $33 in 1955, $279 adjusted for inflation
San Francisco to Chicago — $76 in 1955, $643 adjusted for inflation
Boston to Los Angeles — $106 in 1955, $896 adjusted for inflation
Kansas City to New York — $52 in 1955, $440 adjusted for inflation
Pittsburgh to San Francisco — $96 in 1955, $812 adjusted for inflation
Las Vegas to Los Angeles — $13.70 in 1955, $116 adjusted for inflation
Phoenix to Chicago — $69 in 1955, $584 adjusted for inflation
Amarillo to Kansas City — $22 in 1955, $186 adjusted for inflation
New York to Columbus — $23.90 in 1955, $202 adjusted for inflation
Washington, D.C. to Kansas City — $46 in 1955, $389 adjusted for inflation
St. Louis to Los Angeles — $73 in 1955, $617 adjusted for inflation
Wichita to Philadelphia — $68.55 in 1955, $580 adjusted for inflation
New York to Pittsburgh — $16 in 1955, $135 adjusted for inflation

International Rates (all from New York)

Paris, France — $310 in 1955, $2,622 adjusted for inflation
Rome, Italy — $360.20 in 1955, $3,046 adjusted for inflation
Frankfurt, Germany — 328.10 in 1955, $2,775 adjusted for inflation
London, England — $290 in 1955, $2,453 adjusted for inflation
Madrid, Spain — $320.30 in 1955, $2,709 adjusted for inflation
Shannon, Ireland — $261 in 1955, $2,207 adjusted for inflation
Lisbon, Portugal — $296 in 1955, $2,503 adjusted for inflation
Geneva, Switzerland — $328.10 in 1955, $2,775 adjusted for inflation

Double all those for R/T and that's in coach.

http://paleofuture.gizmodo.com/air-travel-today-is-a-damn-bargain-951705216

[SunSeeker]

91. Yep. But coach back then was like today's first class.

Those prices basically equate to today's first class fares, which is what you were getting back then in coach.

[EX500rider]

92. Exactly, so to get 60's experience, just pay 60's prices and fly 1st Class

....and leave coach for those on a tight budget.

But don't pay 2/3 less then it use to be and wonder why service levels aren't the same.

[Blue Ridge Virginia]

29. Just drove from Virginia to New Mexico and Colorado

and would do so again rather than enrich the airlines; used to travel by air in the past millennium but twice in the 21stc was enough

[peacebuzzard]

33. Best thing I did was to sign up for Global Entry

It gives you the TSA pre-check lane which is a breeze once you conform to sailing through without beeping the detectors. I wear absolutely no metal. Not even a bobby pin, not even eyelets on shoes. I do an international trip once a month and Global Entry works even better. You just have to be careful with the Global Entry kiosk when you scan your passport. The kiosk takes a picture which prints on a slip you hand to the Customs And Border agent. If you do not line up just right, the camera lens will take a picture without you in it. The agents don't think much about that and might delay you. Travel is a breeze with the Global Entry Trusted Traveler program. It takes a process to enroll, but it changed the way I travel now. Each month I typically have 2 short US trips and one long international. I usually have no interaction with the TSA or the customs officials other than a wave through and sometimes a greeting.

[GeoWilliam750]

34. My round trip US/Asia ticket last month was about a third of the nominal price 40 years ago

Thus, to some degree, you get what you pay for these days, and I agree that travelling used to be much more fun.

Another interesting thing I have noticed on international flights in recent years is that the US carriers have a disproportionately high number of Americans - probably in no small part due to the frequent flier programs. It has been noted that Americans tend to be physically larger than people of other nationalities - especially Asians, and the seats on the airplanes certainly seem to be no larger than those on international airlines, whose passengers commonly seem to be significantly smaller than Americans. International carriers have their own frequent flier programs, so have a disproportionately high number of - typically, physically smaller - locals.

Sitting in a US carrier economy class now means a high probablility of having your neighboring passenger being too large to fit into their allotted space, meaning that one spends the flight pressed up against the passenger in the next seat, and becoming attuned to even the tiniest movement they make or breath they take (apologies to Sting).

[wasupaloopa]

35. We flew Santa Barbara to Denver then Denver

to Dayton OH on United.

Both legs were on a smaller jet with plenty of room. I was amazed I could move my legs and nap.

Went from LAX to Atlanta and then to Dayton on Delta and was crammed into a small coach seat in a 757 I think it was.

The most miserable flight I ever took

[hatrack]

41. Same experience here - way more legroom on an Embraer or other RJs than a "big" plane

I'm 6'3" and about 225, so coach just plain sucks in most cases, but oddly, not on the little 50-seaters.

Book the single-seat row and you'll be fine.

[mnhtnbb]

37. I HATE flying now. Think I'm done with travel by plane (and I'm 66).

For the last several years I've refused to fly coach for anything longer than 2 hours. Our last coach flight
my husband (6'2&quot put his seat back and the woman behind him started kicking his seat. He turned around
to ask her what was her problem. Got some BS from the guy sitting beside her. We happened to have empty
seats in front of us (because they didn't sell the "priority" seating" so I told my husband to move. Right away
a flight attendant came and was going to bounce him from the seat, but he said it was to keep the woman
behind him from going nuts, so they let him stay.

It's crazy. We have either used miles to upgrade or purchased business class seats for flights longer than
2 hours, but I'm done. I hate flying. IF we go anywhere, we will drive or take the train. And, of course, the Trumpster/Republicans
want to take away subsidies for Amtrak. I think we may be driving to the beach and that will be it from now on.

[liberaltrucker]

40. I considered flying when I go back to Alabama

PIT to BHM is a challenge, to say the least. As is PIT to MSY (New Orleans).
So, we drive to those destinations.
HOWEVER, back in December, we had 5 free nights in Las Vegas. Yeah, it
was literally a pain in the ass, but 4 hours in an Airbus beat the hell
out of 3+ days in a Chevy. My rule of thumb, under 1200 miles, drive.

[Dustlawyer]

42. I am on the FAA "No Fly" list and have been since December 2001.

For the time it takes to drive 2 hours to the nearest airport, go through security until they confirm I am not the terrorist from Yemen who used my name as an alias (Still think it is a BS excuse, I have a common name), endure the usual flight delays, fly, land and get bags, I can travel 400-600 miles by car!

The No Fly list is an excuse to take away probable cause. They never take a name off of the list, just add more. At least they don't pull guns on me anymore or put me in a red velvet rope square with a cop guarding me while they confirm I am not the droid they are looking for!

[FailureToCommunicate]

44. Try trains next time. You may enjoy the journey again.

[SharonAnn]

49. With the proposed budgetcuts to Amtrak transportation, it may not be an option.

[FailureToCommunicate]

52. Of course. All the more reason to ride 'em while we still have 'em.

[classykaren]

96. And yet trains are packed. Many of which are people who just hate to fly.

[Xolodno]

46. If my vacation is in the Western US...

...I drive. Relative of my wife asked why on earth we do that instead of flying? She responded that often the journey is part of the vacation as well, he didn't get it. We drove from So Cal to Breckenridge once, one thing for certain, we needed to take more time in between to see some of the sites along the way. Who knew there was wine tasting near Grand Junction?

[csziggy]

100. Yes - make the trip part of the experience!

My husband and I took our first long vacation together in 1977 - sort of a delayed honeymoon. We drove from Panama City, Florida, to San Francisco, down to San Diego, then back east. We took almost six weeks and had a great time.

We stopped at state and national parks, archeological sites, visited friends and relatives, and took afternoons for bird watching. That has been our model for vacations most of the time since. We also ate at local places and avoided chain stores and tourist traps.

One of the most memorable events was going to see the Rocky Horror Picture show at a theater on Market Street in San Francisco with the two gay friends we'd driven out to see. We were all stoned, as were most in the movie theater, and a few people were singing along. That was before people started dressing as characters to see the movie.

Other events were almost getting snowed in at the Grand Canyon, rain in Death Valley, and following the snow plow through King's Canyon.

[AndyTiedye]

47. We Take the Train if Posible

[dflprincess]

51. Remember how they told us deregulation was the best thing for consumers?

What they didn't add was "only until most the competition is gone". Same with the banks.

[lunasun]

54. I also like Amtrak and now I heard the govmnt will be cutting service. Maybe 6 hrs on the train

but there is a hub close by and when I add cost and travel plus airport security time and the shitty stuff I have experienced it beats the 1-2 HR air ride . Of course if it is a very far destination well then I gotta go air although I would consider auto drive as you said. I mean cruise control doesn't cut it but auto drive could be interesting . Won't be too long....

[Lifelong Protester]

57. We drive.

Last edited Sat Jul 8, 2017, 02:49 PM - Edit history (2)

The last trip (driving) was 3600 miles, round trip.

Flying is OK, but the airport creeps me out. I am in a panic every time I go there. Sometimes they want my passport, sometimes not. Sometimes I have to go through security, sometimes not. My favorite was last year at PDX-I didn't have to go through security, but a bell rang, and I had to take off my shoes, my bracelets (I wear 13 silver ones, never take them off), my watch (a Rolex) and put the stuff in a bin. I had a Ziplock bag for the jewelry, but it went through before the bell went off. The gal at PDX running security said something to the effect that I needed to be 'better prepared'.

At JFK, they rushed me and my girlfriend through-no search, no "take off this or that".

I don't know what to do anymore.

Don't get me started on the planes....

[Liberal In Texas]

76. Buy PreCheck. If you have to fly.

Well worth the $88.

Plus never fly Delta. I have a horror story about them and my 89 year old (at the time) mother. Their aircraft are small, really small and cramped on the inside.

Only Southwest for me from now on. And that isn't what it used to be.

[DFW]

61. With one exception I know of, domestic air travel in the USA sucks big time

In the first place, CBP is erratic. In Boston last week, my wife and I sailed through, although the fact that it took Air France 5 days to get the last of our luggage to us marred our arrival big time. In Atlanta last December, the CBP officer, himself an immigrant, detained us for an hour, claiming that my wife's fingerprints "didn't match." What the asshole meant by that, he didn't say, but my wife had the same fingers on her hand that she has had the last 100 times she has entered the USA without a problem, so it was NOT her fingerprints.

I fly a lot for work, and of course when I travel back to the States. If you have the time for a boat, congratulations. I don't. Except for Delta, the only airline that flies nonstop from anywhere in the non-Florida South to Düsseldorf, we never take US carriers transatlantic. Air France, KLM, Air Berlin or British. Iberia via Madrid when I go to South America. JAL or Cathay when I go to the Orient. I usually take trains when I can, but if I have to run down to Spain for the day, each way it's either100 minutes to Barcelona, 135 minutes to Madrid or 30-36 hours on a train. No thanks. Within the States, it's either Delta or (preferably) Virgin America. Virgin often costs less in first class than American in coach if you book in time.

I hate American, who as often as not damages my luggage and puts me in a middle seat. I will not take United AT ALL unless my life or that of someone important to me depends on it. I would rather go from Washington to Chicago via Havana on Cubana than take a direct flight on United for a fifth the price.

When I run down to Paris, I take the train (3:50), although I have to get up at 4:30 to make it. But to fly (50 minutes), I have to get up at 5:30, go through security, wait for boarding, and then, upon arrival, wait to deplane, walk a long way to the train into Paris and then take the Métro. Arrival by air MAYBe half an hour later than the train. No reason to fly that.

[jg10003]

62. Deregulation was a 2 edged sword.

I'm old enough to remember flying in the 1960's, when people in coach were offered a choice of steak or fish, served with real, not plastic, utensils. Deregulation did away with all that and gave us the hellish experience we all know and dread. But deregulation also made discount airlines possible, thereby making air travel accessible to far more people then it was 50 years ago.

[moonscape]

68. And there was no non-smoking section, and we

dressed up to fly/eat those meals, and we could run to the gate if late cuz as long as the door hadn't closed we could dash on.

And the seats were wide and the leg room vast. Of course, I was a shorter, skinnier teenager ...

[jg10003]

69. There was a non-smoking section, but there was no divider between smoking & non-smoking. So..

it really didn't matter.

[moonscape]

72. I don't remember that part, but I do remember when they made

a smoking section in the rear of the plane. I recall it because I was a teen smoker, and hated that we were all bunched up now! Before then, I could sit wherever I wanted. There weren't assigned seats on the shorter flights I took, though were to Europe.

[Liberal In Texas]

73. They started putting the "dividerrs" in in the 1980s.

Don't remember exactly when. Smokers were relegated to the aft of the aircraft.

There was a joke among smokers about how if there was a crash the smokers would probably survive because more people statistically lived though a crash in the tail sections of the plane.

[moonscape]

74. Okay, so what about what the other poster said - there

being a non-smoking section in the 60's? What I remember as a smoker, was being able to sit wherever I wanted (until being ushered to the back), not being told I couldn't sit somewhere because I smoked.

[Liberal In Texas]

75. I don't believe in the 60s there was a non-smoking section.

This didn't start until the late 70s or early 80s.

[regnaD kciN]

66. Have a look at the Airliners.net "Civil Aviation" forum...

...and you'll see why air travel is what it is today. The forum is filled with airline professionals, and the hatred of their "customers" is the overwhelming emotion.

It's especially noticeable whenever there's an incident making the news, like the case of the doctor dragged off the United flight. Whenever I hear of such an incident, I immediately check over their to see the reaction. Inevitably, it will be poster after poster yelling about how it's all the passenger's fault, and, if only he or she had been properly obedient, there wouldn't have been a problem...oh, and also the fault of social media for publicizing these stories and making the aggrieved passenger think they're entitled to a big payday instead of sitting down, shutting up, "putting on their big-boy pants," and accepting that what the airline says goes, period. (Remember, these are the people you'll be interacting with if/when you fly.)

[Liberal In Texas]

70. I'm 5'8" and around 175 in my old age. And I don't fit into a coach seat. Cramped no elbow room.

I hate flying now and won't do it if I can drive it in 12 hours.
Got my TSA precheck and that helps. I am an aviation lover. Have student pilot lessons in helicopters. Have flown on the Airship Industries Fuji blimp. Have flown in several TV station helicopters in my tenure in broadcast TV. Took controls on an EC-135 in Las Vegas on a demo flight. Discovered that lessons were beyond my pay grade.

But: Back in the day.

You bought a ticket. Showed up 15 minutes before the flight left. No TSA. Just jumping a jet.
Speaking of jumping, actually jumped off the jet-way as they were pulling it away from the aircraft once. Braniff. Probably.
Yes, they had food! Great? It was OK.

And really back in the day. A DC6 with my family dressed with our best clothes. Dresses and coats and ties. Even the kids. The stewardess (before hey were flight attendants or just crew) offered my dad a small pack of cigarettes because you couldn't some a pipe in the cabin. As kids we had the run of the aisles if we wanted. Then the "stew" invited us up the the cockpit to have a chat with the captain and co-pilot. The door was either wide open or not locked. They gave us a pair of plastic kids wings with the company logo. Cool.

But after the "olden days" of turbo props and DC-3s. We had the 727 commuters. Wonderful aircraft the served the middle of America.




Hence Harry Chapin's Northwest 222:

But they've gone and cancelled "Old 222." Literally.

And it was pretty cheap. And the crew made good money for the time. Then dereg. And then vulture money grubbers took over. Eastern decimated. Northwest just sucked up. United and Delta some of the worst carriers in the world.

I will only fly Southwest these days. If to Europe, British Airways.

And they're not as much fun as they used to be.

[customerserviceguy]

107. Those were the days, my friend

The first flight I remember came in 1969, when I was thirteen. My father was already out in Portland, Oregon, having gotten and retained his job out there, and Mom and me and my siblings flew out on Northwest Airlines from Chicago to Portland. The plane was not packed, I had a whole three-seat side to myself, and I remember the meal, the dessert was apple pie with a slice of cheddar cheese on it. I asked my mother about this, I had never seen pie with cheese, and she reassured me that it was a wholesome combination. One taste, and I knew she was right!

I still remember descending over Portland, seeing the Columbia River in the sunset, and that was the last truly dignified flight experience I ever had outside of first class.

[spooky3]

78. Guys, take first/business class when you can. It's

Expensive on long international trips, but not so much on short ones--if available. I economize somewhere else, and when shopping online always check to see if I can earn miles to use to upgrade on my airline credit card, to save some hassle by doing this. F/BC isn't luxurious but you get more space and better bathroom access. TSA pre-check helps too.

[customerserviceguy]

108. Very true

First class versus cattle class.

[HAB911]

79. Flew for business for 25 years

Eastern was my airline, then Delta. We were treated as customers should be.

We drive from Tampa to Atlanta rather than fly. Believe it or not, with arrival time at the departing airport and exit time at the arrival, the time frame is the same, about 8 hours total either route (6 hours in my little red sports car at night!). I'll do without the hassle of TSA and surly employees. If I never fly again it will be too soon.

[MineralMan]

81. No, not really.

I've traveled on airlines since 1965. While there's less room in coach these days, and it's a bit of a hassle at airports, I still enjoy flying as a means of transportation over long distances.

Now that I'm in my 70s, I don't fly as much as I used to, when flying was part of my business as a journalist. Mostly, I fly between MSP and LAX, since I live in Minnesota and my 92 year old parents live in southern California. Here's the deal:

It's a three-day drive between those two places. Six days round trip. Since both my wife and I are still working as freelance writers, as we always have, that would mean a four day visit to their home would take 10 days to accomplish.

Instead, I fly coach for about 3.5 hours each way. Add a couple of hours for airport stuff on each trip, and it's still a helluva lot better than three days of driving. We take a shuttle to and from our home and the airport. I don't like airport parking, and the cost for the shuttle is about the same. In California, I rent a car at LAX for the 1.5 hour (hopefully) drive to and from my parents home.

I'm about 6' tall...a bit shorter than I was as a younger guy. I weigh about 200 lb. I can sit in coach seats on any airline for a flight of that length, without any problem. Normally, we book exit row seats, though, for a bit more legroom. But, if those aren't available, I can manage the regular coach seats just fine.

The travel time saved, however, is enormous. It makes those trips possible, really. And they're important to me and to my aged parents. I buy food at the airport to take on the plane if I feel the need to eat during the flight. There are some really good options at every airport I've passed through for in-flight dining.

I've flown all over the world. Coach has never been comfortable for long flights, and never will be. Still, you arrive at your destination safely in an amazingly short time and for amazingly low cost if you book flights intelligently.

I don't mind if people choose other means of transportation, of course, but if I'm going over 500 miles each way, I'll be on the plane flying over you in your car or train. Maybe I'll see you from my window seat.

Happy travels!

[EX500rider]

83. Everyone forgets what it cost back then, only the rich could fly..

1955 TWA ad prices:

International Rates (all from New York one way)

Paris, France — $310 in 1955, $2,622 adjusted for inflation
Rome, Italy — $360.20 in 1955, $3,046 adjusted for inflation
Frankfurt, Germany — 328.10 in 1955, $2,775 adjusted for inflation
London, England — $290 in 1955, $2,453 adjusted for inflation
Madrid, Spain — $320.30 in 1955, $2,709 adjusted for inflation
Shannon, Ireland — $261 in 1955, $2,207 adjusted for inflation
Lisbon, Portugal — $296 in 1955, $2,503 adjusted for inflation
Geneva, Switzerland — $328.10 in 1955, $2,775 adjusted for inflation

And those are one way prices! Double those to come home!

So R/T to Rome from NY over $6,000! In coach!...no wonder it was nicer.

I just flew Fla to Medellin, Colombia in S America R/T for $230! (VivaColombia Airlines, owned by RyanAir)
I will take a smaller seat and no amenities to be able afford to travel, you can always book 1st Class if you feel you want the old experience in price and luxury.

"It might not feel like it, but air travel's a steal compared to what it was a half century ago. Since the American airline industry was deregulated in 1978, ticket prices have fallen by about 40%"
http://paleofuture.gizmodo.com/air-travel-today-is-a-damn-bargain-951705216

[EX500rider]

84. ...and 19 hours each way NY/Rome on a noisy prop plane...

On of these:

Lockheed Constellation ("Connie&quot

?download

[trof]

99. I remember when the Connie was the Queen of the Fleet.

I think the Super Connie even had Pullman type sleeper seats.
By the time I hired on I think TWA was all jet.

[EX500rider]

103. The Lockheed L-1649 Starliner was the last model of the Lockheed Constellation line:

"The L-1649A holds the record for the longest-duration, non-stop passenger flight aboard a piston-powered airliner. On TWA's first London-to-San Francisco flight on October 1–2, 1957, the aircraft stayed aloft for 23 hours and 19 minutes (about 5,350 miles (8,610 km) at 229 miles per hour (369 km/h))."

ouch

[trof]

113. The Super Connie.

One of the most graceful looking airplanes ever built.
Boeing was OK, but I loved Lockheed.
The L1011 is the best plane I ever flew.

[EX500rider]

104. Last Connie's:

"Boeing 707s replaced the last TWA transatlantic passenger L-1649 in October 1961; 707s and Convair 880s displaced them from domestic scheduled flights in December 1962. In the early 1960s Lockheed converted twelve TWA L1649s to freighters that carried cargo across the Atlantic until 1964 and domestically until 1967."

[PatrickforO]

93. I don't fly, either. I don't want to be treated like dirt beginning with TSA and

then being packed like a sardine into seats too small for junior high school kids, and getting nickel and dimed to death.

Nope. They don't get my money any more because you pay out the nose for too little.

[classykaren]

95. I love the train for long trips.

[WinkyDink]

102. From where to where? I'm curious.

[customerserviceguy]

106. It does indeed

One solution I have is to use my frequent flier miles (earned from something other than flying, like credit card use) to travel first class. The difference between cattle class and first class in dollars is usually four to five times the price, with using miles, it's only twice as much. That tells me where to use the miles.

I got an invitation today from American Airlines to select my meal choices on my first class flight to the Northwest later this month, how very civilized, compared to the mystery meat sandwich I would be offered in cattle class, should I have chosen to use my miles in that hellhole.

It's like the Titanic, without the iceberg.

[dixiegrrrrl]

121. My daughter in law has flying free/cheap down to a science.

She amazes me. Very intelligent and a serious penny pincher. She flies a lot, and last year found a way to fly from Italy to Australia and then to SF using air miles.
I could not keep track of the explanation, but got the point.

Me, last plane trip from Pensacola to Denver, change planes, to SF and return, Jan. 1999.

TSA came in, I won't play that game. Period.


The Golden Age of_______________ usually lasts 20-30 years.

[mountain grammy]

114. Agree..

30 years ago I worked for a small regional airline.. met my husband there, an aircraft mechanic.
Flew a lot, for work and pleasure. The good old days when the gate agent would apologize to us non-revs if no first class seats were available, but, like you said, coach wasn't that bad and it was free.

As retirees, we still fly for pennies, and that's about what it's worth. Damn the CEO's and greedy corporations who made airline travel so awful.. damn them all.