So, there's no constitutional remedy to invalidate an election that has already been

[Laura PourMeADrink]

certified. I know, remedies to get rid of prez....but strikes me that we should do the election over given all dark clouds.

I remember Hillary saying she wasn't going anywhere. But it wasn't like Biden or Obama saying it or like anyone who loses says it - it was more like she almost knew something more.

[BainsBane]

1. The remedy is Democrats' winning in 2018 and 2020

That has to be the focus. There can be no impeachment without a Dem House, and a Democratic victory in 2020 banishes Trump from the presidency regardless.

[FBaggins]

2. Of course there is

It's called impeachment.

[jmowreader]

16. The problem with impeachment if Congress and the president are of the same party...

...is they're not going to move against the bastard unless and until he does something that threatens their reelection.

And really, the only thing that could get them to take action against him now, is if Putin ordered him to confiscate guns.

[FBaggins]

19. The fact that they're unlikely to do it doesn't mean that it isn't the Constitutional remedy

There's no possible "constitutional remedy" for removing a President that isn't going to involve overwhelming agreement by both parties and the vast majority of the population.

[Lotusflower70]

3. Unfortunately no

But do it over without being able to trust the results.

[dembotoz]

4. if there was the gop would have tried it against obama years ago

[Trial_By_Fire]

5. Here is a Constitutional remedy...

First, if the elections were proven to be stolen, America would have to do something. There would be no way that Americans would say 'oh well, we have a Russian plant as the President'...

So,

This is based on *proof* that the elections were illegitimate. This requires the 1st cooperation - agreeing that the elections were stolen. If there is proof that the elections were stolen AND the repubs (or all of Congress for that matter) refuse to proceed, then Americans and the world will know that America's democracy is dead.

Proceeding...

1. The Senate would have to vote to nullify the elections by repealing the vote of the Electors. If the Senate refuses to or votes not to nullify the election, then again, American's democracy is dead.

2. The Primaries: Given that if the elections were illegitimate, more than likely the primaries were also illegitimate and would require proof as well. In any case, the primaries would have to be re-done as well.

3. Basically, we would be redoing the entire 2016 election cycle. We would also have to correct all the voter suppression tactics used by the repubs.

Far fetched? Of course. That is probably why the framers did not put in language to correct this as they incorrectly assumed the elections would be legitimate. A Democracy requires accurate, reproducible voting that includes all legitimate voters voting (and squash the voter suppression).

But it might pass legal muster.

And, we would also have to beg President Obama to fill in until the elections were concluded.

[Control-Z]

6. And Hillary?

Still nothing. It's almost unfathomable how she's been treated. I've never witnessed the kind of strength she had shown.

In a just world she would be considered first for any changes in office.

[WillowTree]

7. "But it might pass legal muster."

How do you figure, considering that there is nothing whatsoever in the Constitution that would allow for such a thing?

[tritsofme]

9. What you propose is not just far fetched, it is fantasy.

Congress cannot vote to "repeal the vote of the electors" there is constitutional mechanism for this to occur.

The president's term lasts four years, the only way for it to end early are: death, resignation, removal under the 25th amendment, or a Senate impeachment conviction.

The Constitution clearly defines the process for presidential elections and terms, there is no "redo" regardless of the circumstance.

[Trial_By_Fire]

12. So, if we prove that the elections were totally fraudulent and fixed by a foreign country...

Are you are saying there is nothing we can do about it?

Since the Senate confirms the electoral vote, under this situation, and because
there is not a definitive means to un-do a fraudulent election, the Senate
can reverse their decision by a vote of the Senate.

I see nothing un-Constitutional about that...

[zipplewrath]

21. Yes

There is nothing "constitutional" that we could do about it. It would have to be an "extra-constitutional" action. At that point you can make up any scenario you want. The question you'd then have to ask yourself is how would you generate support for such a thing? Look at how many states are controlled to some extent or another by the GOP? And for that matter, how many people out there aren't as committed to putting Hillary in office as they are in just letting sleeping dogs lie? When GWB was put into office, the majority basically took the attitude of "hey, let's just move on". You really think you could generate anywhere near the sufficient majority to do something outside of the constitution? And how much of a majority do you think that'd have to be? 2/3? 3/4? 85%?

And what do you think the reaction of the GOP would be to any new president, especially if it was of the other party? You thought Obama saw obstruction. You would truly have a constitutional crisis on you hands of the kind that could literally "tear this country apart". You could see a military that didn't know who to follow. You could see states refusing federal authority. Militias could be formed. State Guard units could be called up to "seize" federal facilities. FBI agents working to undermine the next president by generating "charges" against them, or allusions to election fraud.

Yes, the situation could be worse and suspending the constitution would be the first step to going there.

[tritsofme]

23. I've already explained the only ways a president's term can end early...

Your theory, while certainly creative, is not grounded in reality.

Plus, not to split hairs on this sort of crazy-talk, but electoral vote certification is not a duty of the Senate alone, it occurs before a joint session of Congress.

[Trial_By_Fire]

25. Thanks for the correction on 'not the duty of the Senate alone'...

The President of the Senate presides over the process and I totally forgot
about House members, like Congresswoman Barbara Lee, objecting.

Impeachment is not the means to 'fix' a stolen hacked election as the VP
is also part of that stolen hacked election (like the President).

Would Americans just say 'oh well, the Russians hacked the election and gave it to their operative - nothing we can do'...

Hell no...

[FBaggins]

11. How can you call that a "Constitutional remedy"?

None of what you put in there is even close to Constitutional.

[Trial_By_Fire]

13. see above...

[FBaggins]

18. That doesn't make any sense

First off... pointing out that your plan isn't constitutional does NOT mean that there's "nothing we can do about it". The Constitutional remedy remains what it has always been... impeachment. If it can be proven that Trump's election was "totally fraudulent", then Congress can remove him.

Your other claims are nonsensical. The fact that the Senate plays a role in accepting the votes of the electoral college does NOT mean that they retain, in perpetuity, the power to change that later. There's no such power within the Constitution, so it's ridiculous for you to say that you "see nothing unconstitutional about that"... it's the DEFINITION of unconstitutional.

[0rganism]

15. "repealing the vote of the Electors"? is that even a thing?

as messed up as our current situation is, such an action seems like a highly dangerous and anti-democratic maneuver that could be difficult to justify in court.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

22. No, it's not a thing. No one ever envisioned a group involving another country in our election.

[jmowreader]

17. That would also nullify the congressional elections

I can live with that.

Now, for the next question: What do we do, BESIDES re-do the election, to punish the malefactors in this one?

My first thought: kick the entire Russian diplomatic mission out of the United States and cancel all visas issued to Russian citizens. There's a process for it. It's long and involved, but it's been done before in other nations so we should be able to do it here.

[Trial_By_Fire]

20. First thing that needs to be done is...

...is to make our election system 'un-hackable'. If everyone and anyone can hack our elections (including Republicans) and voter roll system, we have to remove that ability. How? Paper ballots, human counting, but does not mean we could not use computers to
assist is producing the ballot but then hand count. Or something similar...

I am not sure what to do about Russia - that is a bit below my pay grade. However, the US does 'meddle' in other country's
governments. We do need a diplomatic channel to Russia and all other nations. We could boot Russians out of the US.

[jmowreader]

24. We can do two things at one time

It would take a while to re-implement a hand-counted paper ballot system. Thinking out loud...

We'd need to design ballots, and they should be uniform nationwide.

We'd need more polling places

More elections personnel.

Automatic recount of ALL ballots in ALL precincts - preferably by poll workers in a different precinct, and more preferably if the second precinct is in another state. There must be an audit trail for counters, and criminal penalties for attempts to steal the election in the counting room.

And a lot more money to make it work. One of the biggest selling points of the electronic polling systems is you can run an election for less money if you use them.

OTOH...we can PNG the entire Russian diplomatic mission in 72 hours. Kicking the illicits out of the country will take a little longer, but it's still doable.

[UTUSN]

8. We didn't do anything about Coup 2000 either

[OliverQ]

10. It's not like we're following the Constitution anymore anyway. Might as well redo the election.

[MineralMan]

14. There's not going to be any freaking do-over.

There is no possible way for that to happen. Forget about it.

Instead, start working on the 2018 elections just as hard as you can. That's the constitutional remedy we have. It's right in there in that document. Why would you not work on that, instead of flogging a horse that is already rotting?

We have a constitutional remedy. It happens every two years. That's how we fix crap that happens in elections. We vote again, two years later, and then again four years later. We repeat that process over and over again.

Work on real remedies. Stop this re-do nonsense. It ain't happening.