Don't hate me, but all this breathless smoking gun stuff...Isn't Trump just going to pardon everbody

[BamaRefugee]

?

And probably fire Mueller at a crucial moment, which will leave everything in limbo til after 2018 elections?

Sorry to be a wet blanket, but I wonder about these things.

[sheshe2]

1. Who says he will be left standing when all is said and done?

The guilty parties will roll on trump in a New York minute.

[BamaRefugee]

5. I may be wrong but I think I've read that

President's can pardon folks well in advance of their leaving office or of any crimes being yet committed by the pardoned ones...

found this
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2008/07/preemptive_presidential_pardons.html

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. That's a good point and he is surrounded by so many miscreants he might not know who to pardon.

[BzaDem]

2. One thing to note is that if he pardons everyone, they can't take the fifth.

They would have to answer any questions from the FBI/DOJ, and any untruth would expose them to felony perjury charges.

[Kaleva]

7. Acceptence of a pardon is an admission of guilt.

[BzaDem]

19. Right. I'm saying though that Trump might not want to pardon if doing so requires his cronies to

tell the feds everything they know under oath.

[Kaleva]

20. If Trump is guilty, he's be foolish to pass out pardons like candy.

As you say, those who got a pardon wouldn't be able to plead the 5th and they'd have to talk lest they face jail time and that would take down Trump, assuming he is complicit in all this which I'm very much sure he is.

[BamaRefugee]

26. So they answer truthfully, then...

The FBI does what? Everything after that, the DOJ has to do. The FBI can't make their own arrest warrants. Neither can US Marshals.

Who in the DOJ is going to bring charges?

[BzaDem]

44. If your argument is that the DOJ could ignore everything, then the talk about pardons is irrelevant

The DOJ in theory can ignore everything even if no pardons were issued.

In reality, if the president pardons en masse what are essentially his co-conspirators, he would likely be impeached and removed. If not, there is not much to discuss. The ultimate removal power is vested in Congress, just like it is typically vested in legislative bodies or other politically accountable bodies in most other countries. If Congress chooses not to act despite pardons en masse, there is going to be no unelected superhero that swoops in and saves the day.

So assuming Trump is impeached and removed after pardons en masse, the Justice Department is no longer under his control. The DOJ can at that point compel testimony of anyone pardoned, and use it in a case against Trump.

Of course, Pence could pardon Trump, as Ford pardoned Nixon. A hypothetical President Pence (and his party) would have to answer for that, as Republicans did in 74 and 76.

[Generic Brad]

43. And can't he pardon them from felony perjury too?

Can a person be pardoned only once? Can they be pardoned for multiple crimes?

[Girard442]

3. My money's on a new Reichstag fire.

I plan to stay out of prominent landmarks this year.

[byronius]

28. It's their only out.

This crew is so incompetent they might forget the matches.

[kairos12]

32. Count on it.

[nolabear]

4. I dare him. I double dog dare him.

It would be a gift the GOP would never live down.

[BamaRefugee]

6. The GOP has lived down Nixon and Watergate, Reagan, Bush, 9/11, EVERYTHING, why would it stop?

more suckers being born every minute in MURKA!

[Cosmocat]

8. Coin flip at best on that

Honestly, this country is so far gone in enabling republican fuck wittery, my money would be on them backing his play and the country letting them get away with it, fake news, they are all the same and all.

[BamaRefugee]

9. it sucks, but...yes. Who has power to stop anything? And forget about moral courage on the right!

[Cosmocat]

22. Hell

Gotta have morals in the first place to have moral courage.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

33. But, but don't they go to church and put "Jesus Saves" stickers on their car. Probably stand in

front of planned parenthood with dead fetus signs?

[Calista241]

24. Reagan pardoned people being investigated by a special counsel. Nothing new there.

[GulfCoast66]

34. Actually, if not mistaken

I thought congress gave the immunity and because of that their later convictions were thrown out.

But I could be wrong. It has been a while.

[marylandblue]

40. Yes, that's correct, but also Bush Sr. pardoned some participants

[GulfCoast66]

45. Yep

I was aware of that. But by then it was all over.

[Amishman]

10. Who would control bringing charges?

Because if it's the DoJ, we can expect nothing to happen.

[marylandblue]

41. Mueller brings the charges, not DOJ

[beachbum bob]

12. 2018 democratic tidal wave

[miyazaki]

13. Firing Mueller is a suicide blow to Trump and his entire party.

If Mueller is still standing he needs to act before next years elections, and much sooner than that. Our economic markets are taking on water now just from the noise.

[BamaRefugee]

14. no matter WHAT THEY EVER DID, the Republicans never die. They are the same as roaches after

a nuclear blast.

Sometimes have to wonder what kind of Satanic pact they signed at some point...

[Cosmocat]

23. Yep

Over the last half century starting with Nixon, the fuck wittery has gotten worse in equal proportion to how little accountability they suffer for it.

[BamaRefugee]

15. and don't forget, while all this ponderous investigating takes place

the Russian hackers a furiously working non stop to perfect their election fixing techniques, and the President of the United States has no intention of stopping them.

Mueller's investigation does nothing to stop that.

[miyazaki]

29. i'm talking about this administration.

ffs.

[nikibatts]

16. That is not the issue. Even if he pardons everyone, we want the lasting damage to be done to the GOP

because they were and are Trump's enablers and protectors. They care nothing about the citizens. Their main desire to maintain their wealth and power. GET THE MESSAGE OUT THERE.

[Not Ruth]

31. And Mueller ultimately has less to do with that than the leakers and the citizen journalists

Retribution truly has come to the people, consider it the 5th wall, maybe the 6th wall also

[standingtall]

17. I have always believed that impeachmentment would not happen until after the 2018 elections

and I'm not sure I would want the proceedings to begin until then. I think if a vote for impeachment were pushed through the house now it would fail. However after the 2018 election when Democrats take back the house or make a significant dent in the republican margins it should be game on.

I imagine Trump will pardon his son and son in law, but there is limit on how many pardons he can give.

[BannonsLiver]

36. Dems would need 67 Senate seats to convict

That's how it went down with Clinton. Two thirds of the senate is required to convict. There's no a single GOP senator that will vote to convict right now, and given their party first ethos I doubt there would be many down the road either.

I think we will hold our ground in the senate next year but it would be a long shot to get to 50 seats say nothing for 67.

What all of this WILL do is give Dems the opportunity to do some real damage going into 2018 and 2020.

To me the most likely way to be rid of him is to do it the old fashioned way. By beating his orange ass in an election. That said, I still hold out hope for an indictment, resignation or possibly, impeachment and conviction in the senate.

[standingtall]

37. It would unjust to not pursue justice even if it's a long shot

Politicians lose elections all The time. That's normal and letting them get away with their crimes and not an actual punishment. We should do everything in our power to either force Trump to resign in disgrace or be impeached even if conviction in the Senate is unlikely.

[BannonsLiver]

38. Agreed n/t

[grantcart]

18. Yes of course everyone is going to get a pardon

In a couple of months when Trump is frustrated at having to answer the same questions over and over again and no one is listening to his garbage he will resign and pardon himself. He will do it before any impeachment starts because he cannot pardon away impeachment.

My guess is that all of the children and key players already have undated pardons in their safe just in case Trump has a massive heart attack. I am guessing that Don Jr already has his and thats why he doesn't care about releasing the emails, he already has his "get out of jail free" card.

[XRubicon]

21. He has the best ideas you know...

Did you hear his idea for cyber security partnership with the Russians? The best ideas...

[BamaRefugee]

25. "SMOKING GUN" a wee bit of doggerel I wrote earlier today

SMOKING GUN here 
SMOKING GUN there 
SMOKING GUN 
SMOKING GUN 
everywhere. 

So much smoke, 
You'd think there's fires 
But no, just a bunch 
Of congenital liars. 

All still smiling 
All running free 
All will be pardoned 
Just wait and see. 

SMOKING GUN 
SMOKING GUN 
Maybe I'm a kook 
But if I hear those words again, 
I am going to puke. 

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

27. He can pardon only federal crimes.

He and his minions have probably committed enough financial crimes punishable under New York law to get them years' worth of free room and board at Attica.

[smirkymonkey]

42. That is a hopeful thought.

Schneiderman is all over this. They will get something to stick.

[MedusaX]

30. *45 cannot pardon STATE crimes/convictions...and NY has jurisdiction over damn near everything that

*45 & klan have done thus far.

Although it appears you are delighted with the thought of a full round of Pardons....
I doubt that such euphoria will prove sustainable...

Yes... *45 has already opened up the flood gates of sensitive classified information and Putin appreciates it.

Nonetheless, there is much in the IC world that we never see nor hear about... so perhaps the flood is filled with tainted contents.....,

IMO/FWIW

[BamaRefugee]

39. I would take zero delight in pardons

But I'm being realistic. Every cheerleader for a 2018 victory for us is whistling past the graveyard. Russia managed to just barely win 2016. To fight that, from DAY ONE , POTUS would have had to assign every single possible expert available to fight against Russia.

HE'S DONE NOTHING.

Does anyone think Russia stopped learning how to control our votes on Day One? I would bet they have worked 24 hours a day on it since trump took office. Unless someone fights to stop them, they'll have full election control by 2018, and worse by 2020.

But nobody is fighting them that we know of. Doubtful Commander in Chief has told the military to do a thing.

SUCKS!

[kerry-is-my-prez]

35. Remember what happened to Ford after he pardoned Nixon? Scorched earth......