Macron popularity plummets for his crude racism ahead of Trump visit...

[HipChick]

It may sink even lower after Trump visits..The foreign press pull no punches...

Social media lynchings are as hyperbolic as they sound, but Emmanuel Macron got all the metaphorical violence he deserved when he suggested that poor African women have too many babies. The newly elected French President used a press conference at the G20 summit in Hamburg to say that wanton reproduction often made foreign aid pointless.
“Seven or eight children per woman,” were Macron’s exact words, as he rehearsed a canard that is particularly popular among nostalgic colonialists who still speak of the Dark Continent. There was even a clumsy reference to the “civilisational” problems that result from an escalating birthrate, not least of all mass immigration to western countries.
Macron was torn apart on Twitter and Facebook for his crude racism, but there was generally silence from France’s establishment. This is because imperial attitudes prevail in a country that has by no means altered its condescending approach towards those it subjugated, often with immense barbarism.

<SNIP>
Furthermore, his glad-handling of American President Donald Trump, the charlatan now occupying the most powerful executive position on earth, would suggest that Macron is more than happy to overlook hateful bigotry for political gain. They will be buddying up in Paris at the end of this week, after Macron invited his US counterpart to this year’s Bastille Day parade.

There will be plenty of internet venom aimed at the pair, and indeed mass street protests across the capital. Many will say that a discriminatory oaf like Trump has no place in a cosmopolitan city like Paris. The truth, however, is that his more extreme views have far more in common with traditional French ideologies concerning allegedly lesser races than they would care to admit

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/emmanuel-macron-africa-france-colonial-past-not-that-liberal-a7836056.html

[mountain grammy]

1. Oh men, men, men.. can't help themselves.

This from the article:

"There were high hopes that Macron would buck this macho trend, but all the indications are that he jolts into unthinking reactionary mode worryingly easily."

very interesting, thanks for posting.

[HipChick]

2. Did you see how they referred to Trump? an Oaf...

[emulatorloo]

4. I guess that makes Marine Le Pen the dumbest man of all

Sadly idiocy has no hormonal boundaries

[whathehell]

5. +1

[mountain grammy]

69. That's true, but, sadly, for the most part men have the power

and have remained that way by controlling women. Things are changing, but it may already be too late.

[lunasun]

3. Nothing new the French have always had that rap

[Maraya1969]

6. I had no idea and this is very upsetting. I thought he was a good

guy. Never thought he would be a fucked up racist.

Geeze.

[YCHDT]

13. Me too .... WTF hope it was a bad translation

[kerry-is-my-prez]

32. Say it ain't so. Guess will have to go back to crushing on Trudeau.

[BannonsLiver]

7. I agree with Macron

But with two exceptions.

1-Last time I checked it took sperm to make a baby. Two to tango. It should not all be on women to prevent unwanted children.

2-Nobody, regardless of where they live, should be giving birth to 7 or 8 children. This is not exclusive to Africa.

The world doesn't need that many "little miracles" at the moment.

[LisaM]

10. Yeah, I picked up on that, too. 7 or 8 per WOMAN?

I agree that nobody should be having that many children, though of course, it's far more complex an issue in areas where poor families need the labor of their families to survive, and of course, infant and child mortality can be high, too. But to say "per woman" is just fundamentally tone deaf on prima facie.

[Ezior]

12. It sounds odd Maybe this was simply based on a scientific notion of birth rate?

I know the birth rate of a country is sometimes given as "x.x births per woman on average", so maybe he used that same wording to describe families with 7 or 8 kids without thinking too much about it? (Or is this REALLY the birth rate in some places? Like 7.5 births per woman? Seems a lot, but I'm not too well informed about this topic.)

[dhol82]

49. Just got back from a trip to Pakistan

My driver was bragging about his 11 children.
Not uncommon.

[Igel]

53. That's what it was.

Except his numbers are out of date. Sub-Saharan numbers seem to average 4-5. Niger's at 7 for 2014.

That's average per woman.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

33. I would be behind it if he was talking about the Duggars....

[LisaM]

44. Ugh, I know.

But the point I was thinking of is why does he get into how many children a woman bears, versus how many a male sires (for lack of a better term at the moment). Why isn't he quantifying it by number of children per male?

[dhol82]

50. Probably because you can count the babies popping out of a woman.

Sperm are much more indiscriminate.

[Spider Jerusalem]

19. Education, rising incomes, and easy access to birth control...

are responsible for declining birth rates in the West. It's not all that long ago that it was extremely common for families to have seven or eight children (my grandmother, who was born in 1923, was one of eight children). Africa continues to have a high birthrate because Africa continues to be one of the poorest parts of the world. Saying "Africa has a civilisational problem" is just exhibiting profound ignorance.

[BannonsLiver]

23. Good points.

But it still happens here. Spend some time at a Golden Corral on Sundays after church in the south and midwest and you'll see what I mean. Obviously statistically we know birth rates are declining, but there are still a big swath of people who believe in that quiver movement bullshit.

[Spider Jerusalem]

24. And yet the US birthrate overall is below replacement level (1.86 children per woman).

Child mortality is another issue in low-income countries; life expectancy in the US is 79, in most of Africa it's below 60, and infant mortality, deaths in childbirth, pandemic HIV and malnutrition are all part of that (lower life expectancy and higher infant mortality also tend to lead to higher birth rates).

[Blue_true]

59. I live in the South, Florida.

Ok, FloriDUH, but the educated women here typically don't have more than two children, some only one, some none. I see bigger families from women of all races that seem to be poor from the way they tend to dress and the way some of the kids seem cared for. The issue seems to correlate more to poverty than to race.

[Warren DeMontague]

25. That's a point that gets consistently ignored in repetively dumbfuck "population" debates.

Given female access to contraception, freedom and independence from governmental, religious, social and even spousal "authorities", and a decent standard of living, etc the so-called "population problem" manages itself just fine.

What we should be focusing on in areas where the birth rate is still high, is greater access to health care, contraception, sanitation, food, etc.

[ProudLib72]

46. This was what Margaret Sanger was saying in 1920

She was talking about impoverished American women primarily, but we could easily extend that to the global level.

[Warren DeMontague]

63. People like to drag her name through the mud to attack PP, I do know that.

Fact is, more choice, more options, more freedom are good for everyone and achieve better results in the long run. Even leaving aside philosophical considerations, I stand consistently in favor of improving lives and expanding choice and freedom.

[ProudLib72]

64. Certainly

The problem is that removing those options keeps oppressive governments in control. Keep the people poor and distracted by having a lot of babies (who end up being sick all the time because the parents cannot afford to give them proper care). Here is the kicker. The term for controlling the population in order to improve its health is eugenics. It is a term that Sanger freely used in describing her program. Taken to the extreme, however, we know what eugenics entails. That is exactly what the oppressive governments want you to associate with birth control. It's absurd, of course, but idiots like Ben Carson still argue this point: http://www.politifact.com/new-hampshire/statements/2015/oct/05/ben-carson/did-margaret-sanger-believe-african-americans-shou/

So what is it called when an oppressive government controls the population by not allowing birth control and access to decent healthcare for pregnant women/mothers/children? For our country it's called "republicanism".

[Warren DeMontague]

65. Well, authoritarians have a whole list of tricks in the bag, from religious dogma to fear/oppression

But we have the most powerful two words in Western thought: Non Serviam.

[ProudLib72]

67. Those two words do NOT apply to tRump and his gang! nt

They will serve... time in prison.

[Warren DeMontague]

68. The cashing of that Karma Check

...truly, a sight to behold if and when it finally comes due.

[customerserviceguy]

30. You want to stop overpopulation?

Fund science to develop an orally administered drug that virtually guarantees the conception of a male child. Make it available on the black market everywhere for a pittance.

In two or three generations, the most sexist, backwards societies on the planet will breed themselves out of existence. Or, they'll change, and start to value the girl babies that are produced. That will lead to educating them, and trying a bit harder to make sure they marry into good families that don't abuse the women in them.

[Warren DeMontague]

35. First those societies will produce a lot of angry, horny teenage boys w/nothing to do on sat night.

We already know what solves the "population problem"- because it has worked in the first world. Freedom, relatively secular societies, reproductive choice, access to contraception, higher standards of living, female autonomy, etc.

Birth rates manage themselves organically in those circumstances.

[customerserviceguy]

37. All the things you mention

come with changing from an agricultural economy to a manufacturing, then service economy.

And those horny teenage boys who have nobody else to entertain their genitals can thank their parents' generation.

[Warren DeMontague]

45. Either way, point being that improved standards of living + reproductive freedom/autonomy

are a proven way to achieve replacement or lower fertility rates in a relatively short order of time.



Your solution involves waiting however long for these male-heavy societies to 'die out', practical considerations in a mobile globe notwithstanding. The most charitable thing I can come up with about your idea is, it seems impractical at best. At least, for achieving your stated aims.

However, someone could probably get rich selling the drug you've imagined, ethical considerations aside. Knock yourself out.

[customerserviceguy]

61. I agree with your chart

But the only thing we can't prove is which came first, industrialization or lower birthrates. A classic chicken-and-egg situation.

It would only take about two generations to do away with societies that have persisted in ignorance and sexism for many centuries. Once you've got a small female population of child-bearing age, declines in the overall birthrate for the entire population will plummet.

And as far as mobility goes, if most of those men could escape to more prosperous societies to find a mate, they'd be doing it already for economic reasons. I don't see how you entice First World women to live subjugated under Third World conditions long enough to have more than one or two children. And then, those children would be raised by a mother who knows there's a better way to live.

[BannonsLiver]

38. Sounds awesome. To whom do I make the check out to?

[customerserviceguy]

39. Maybe it could be crowdfunded

Ideally, the governments of the Western world should jointly fund it, but if any group of serious scientists say that they could do it, I'd be writing a check, too. However, it would be most effective to be done covertly. Sounds like a job for DARPA.

[CrispyQ]

8. Maybe if we provided all women with sex education, free birth control & access to abortion,

the men could shut the fuck up with their patriarchal, judgmental assholery.

[WhiteTara]

14. +1000

[tavernier]

15. THERE YA GO!

Yes, the shouting is intentional.

[leftstreet]

16. +1

[billh58]

18. Hypocrites one and all.

No funding for birth control or abortions, but plenty of scorn and penalties for women who often have no say in becoming pregnant.

[Delmette2.0]

22. Thank you

That is the perfect response.

[Warren DeMontague]

26. People who try and tell others how many kids they should be "allowed" to have are assholes-

agreed.

[CrispyQ]

28. No. That's not what I said.

I said, all women should be provided with sex education & free BC & access to abortion.

[Warren DeMontague]

29. Oh. Well, I agree with your statement.

I'm not sure what part of "people who try and tell others how many children they should be allowed to have are assholes" is objectionable, though.

[CrispyQ]

34. A difference of perspective, perhaps.

You are macro, and spot on with your belief that people should not tell others how many children they can have.

I am micro, and have experienced, personally, obstacles to that very choice, you & I believe women have.

I appreciate your reasoned response.

~handshake

[Warren DeMontague]

36. I am unapologetically pro choice.

At the micro and macro levels. Peace.

[displacedtexan]

41. Let's just provide all women with Krav Maga.

That should take care of a lot of problems.

[ismnotwasm]

43. +infinity

[Solly Mack]

66. Yes, please.

[PunkinPi]

72. .

[nikibatts]

9. Sometimes sex is the only pleasure you have in your life. Understand what many of these people face

I guess the Catholic church will be getting hit next by Macron.

[Ezior]

11. That is not how he should approach and describe this issue

Really, shocking.

Though I'd say that the growing world population is a huge issue for this planet, as we're already depleting our natural resources too quickly. So I'm a strong supporter of birth control in Europe, America, Africa, Australia, Asia and elsewhere . The catholic church got this wrong, but China's one-child policy was 10x wrong in the opposite direction.

[Warren DeMontague]

17. I wonder where he got that number.

World Bank/UN Fertility Rate data, perhaps.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependencies_by_total_fertility_rate

[panader0]

21. Were those poor African women Catholic?

[roamer65]

27. India is down to about 2.2 children per family now.

Aggressive family reproductive counseling and birth control measures are working. Africa is next.

One planet, one child!

[customerserviceguy]

31. Industrialization hasn't hurt, either

In an agricultural society, large families are desirable (more hands to plant, tend the crops, and bring in the harvest, in industrial and service economies, they are an often unaffordable luxury.

"Be fruitful and mulitply" was from the handbook of a guide designed around moving from a hunter-gatherer society to an agricultural one.

[joeybee12]

40. FAKE NEWS!

All bullshit. All made up. The independent was bought by a Russian oligarch in 2010.

[HipChick]

42. Speech was at the G20 summit...

Independent is not exactly the sole source for news...

I hate that DU'ers take Trumps lead and act as if other DU'ers are dumber than rocks..


http://wunc.org/post/macron-got-lot-wrong-about-africa-made-one-good-point

[joeybee12]

47. Yeah, and the article only has half quotes from him taken

Out of context and lots of paraphrasing. I hate it when DUers try to justify their own viewpoint by linking to trash sources

[HipChick]

48. Here's a viewpoint, written by a French Black person..

anytime a black person has to explain why something is racist....

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/11/slur-africans-macron-radical-pretence-over

[lapucelle]

57. I'd like to see a transcript of the exact question asked by the African journalist

and Macron's complete answer in the original French. I don't trust translated partial statements taken out of context.

I've been looking for a transcript all day.

[lapucelle]

58. It wasn't a speech.

It was part of an answer to a question from an African journalist.

[LAS14]

52. Oh shit!!! And I thought we had a good guy! nt

[DK504]

54. God. Why don't these people think their thoughts before they say them?

" ... when asked in a press conference at the G20 summit in Hamburg why there was no Marshall plan for Africa, explained that Africa had “civilisational” problems. He added that part of the challenge facing the continent was the countries that “still have seven to eight children per woman”.

That is a great question. Problem is these women have no access to health care, no access to contraception and their education isn't the best in the world. These former colonies were set up to fail when the empires were kicked out. They abused the citizens for so long they finally were tossed out and their oppressors made sure there was no infrastructure in place for education, medicine, agriculture and now we wonder why things are so bad in Africa.

We are allowing America to become a former colony state.

Sweet mother, the only former colony that has succeeded is Hong Kong and I wonder if that is because of the financial power house it was and because they made sure Beijing stayed away.

[Crash2Parties]

55. It would help if our foreign-aid funded "missionaries" didn't condemn condom users to Hell.

Regardless of Macron's statements, people who live in poverty often do not have access to adequate contraception. And when we as a nation spend our foreign aid funds on "Faith Based Initiatives" that spread lies about condom use, the problem gets much, much worse. With the money we've spent doing so, we could've provided free birth control for many of the nations most affected.

[JoeOtterbein]

56. More proof that even "intelligent" people can be ignorant racists too. We need to call out racism...

...wherever we witness it. Even if we personally like the racist. I've done it with people I like and respect, I feel no need to stop now.

[Not Ruth]

60. Macron and his wife chose not to have children

She already had a few from a previous union

[GulfCoast66]

62. I read his comments in French

And while my French is admittedly spotty, I think some people may be placing our language and culture on the French.

There are very, very few French people, right or left who will disagree that having 7-8 kids is a bad idea. And the French are also more educated and better read than us. In the US a politician, especially one on the left, would just say that the women of Africa need control over their bodies. That includes easy conception, abortion rights and most importantly, the right to say no to sex to her partner. The French language can be more direct and the French people are smart enough to figure it out. They know that women in many African countries have limited rights.

I think having lots of kids when the woman has no say on the issue is a problem if your are American, European, African, Asian or any other thing.

[dalton99a]

70. The French are more pissed off at him for inviting our idiot to Bastille Day

[JI7]

71. the low popularity is more likely because he invited Trump

i actually don't think his comments would hurt him.

[VOX]

73. 11/9/2016: This author, Nabila Ramdani, tweeted this crap on Hillary Clinton's loss...

Link to tweet

So I'm not too disposed to be a fan of the author right off the bat.