We keep hearing that Russian hacking did not affect the outcome of the election.

[rogerashton]

However,


1) The material that came from Wikileaks, etc, was not the sort of thing that would influence Republicans to vote for Trump. It could, however, create disaffection among Dems and Dem-leaning undecideds -- not that they would vote against Hillary, but that they would stay home on election day.

2) Many Dems and Dem-leaners did stay home on election day, probably enough to swing the election.

3) What this suggests to me is that Russian hacking was quite successful and did affect the outcome, perhaps to the extent of determining it.

[Eliot Rosewater]

1. By the time we find out they flipped votes on election day, it will be too late to stop them

from doing it again.

There are more of us than them, way more.

He did not win in those 4 states.

[cilla4progress]

5. I agree completely

Do you recall the percentages?

[Pacifist Patriot]

6. Weren't they all by about 1% or so?

[cilla4progress]

8. That's my recollection

but I never looked into it after the election. Too ugh.

[Pacifist Patriot]

9. I think I remember a WaPo breakdown that equated the number of votes...

in three of those states totaling less than the number of people it would take to fill University of Michigan's football stadium. Or something like that.

[TheFrenchRazor]

13. it's pretty much a done-deal already, IMO. nt

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. I don't think that it can be *conclusively* proved that Clinton would have won

but for the Russian interference, but it was obvious that there was an effect. The fact that they tried to do it and that the GOP doesn't seem to care is horrifying - because if the Russians thought they might have successful, or even if they thought they thought they came close and could do it better the next time, we can kiss any hope of future fair elections goodbye unless our government does some serious anti-hacking.

[louis-t]

3. Says who? The guys that claim it didn't even happen?

Get your stories straight.

[NRaleighLiberal]

4. are they still flinging the word "alleged" around? I don't watch or listen.

[SDJay]

7. Everything They've Said So Far

that's been put to the test has turned out to be demonstrably false. Will this be any different? When their previous shitty talking point is debunked, they just move the goalposts and start flinging a new shitty talking point.

[TrollBuster9090]

10. Of COURSE it effected the outcome of the election. What the shills are very careful to say is...

...they are very careful to say "there is no evidence that any VOTES were changed." Meaning they haven't (YET) seen any evidence that people hacked into crap-ass Deibolt voting machines, and vote-tallying computers, and changed the numbers.

That part may be true (or it may not be true, given that they haven't investigated it!). But there's no doubt that Russians hacking into Podesta's email, dumping the dirtiest, most racy gossip into wikileaks, and having Fox News gleefully read the back-stairs gossip on their network all day long effected public opinion.

The Russian hacking, combined with Comey's shocking unprofessionalism are the two things that swung the election.

[rogerashton]

12. Voting machines

in PA were not connected to the internet -- I understand, and from what I saw, I'm pretty sure that's right. But there are other ways to "hack" an election. Ballots have sometimes been "lost" in the garbage dump. I'm not saying that happened, but I'm saying that nobody seems even to have investigated that possibility.

But my point in the OP was that even if the vote was not falsified in any way (which we don't know) the Russian interference could have determined the outcome of the election.

[Blue_Tires]

11. The only people still saying that are Trumpists

and useful idiot far right/far left Putinist alliance

[spanone]

14. we kept hearing there were only four people in the junior meeting too. i believe nothing they say

[loyalsister]

15. Words like could, probably, suggests

perhaps, maybe, etc. all reflect the natural uncertainty that is present in this situation. I don't know how it could be proven, if at all, one way or another. But, it is irresponsible, because spreading claims of illegitimate elections is going to suppress the vote. There are always local and special elections going on across the country. We have to be able to get the vote out and that means conveying that votes count.

[moda253]

16. This is why it is so fucked up... They are banking on apathy

They don't give a shit if they get caught for this last time. Because they think the message to voters will be (and they will have bots to help sow the message) that voting doesn't matter because the system is corrupt. THis is a message that has been sown into the poor and especially African American community for decades.

[Martin Eden]

17. Add to all that Comey's October Surprise

... more than enough to tip the election.