On election night, when it still looked like Hillary was going to win, commentators said she must

[EffieBlack]

reach out to Republicans in her victory speech.

The next morning, as they blathered on and on - as if they were experts who had not been proven completely incapable of predicting anything the night before - they all agreed that the first thing Hillary must do in her concession speech was reach out to Republican voters.

Of course, not one of them even suggested that Trump reach out to anyone, either when it looked like he was losing or when he had won.

This is one of the several reasons I call bullshit on the "we must reach out to Trump voters" crap.

[ismnotwasm]

1. K&R

[boston bean]

2. I'll give ya a rec on that point!!

[a kennedy]

3. FUCK THE REPUBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! eom

[Left-over]

32. There are some things I don;t stick my hand in!!!

[yuiyoshida]

41. They have totally gone sour ...and destructive.

[Hoyt]

4. When did it look like Clinton would win? What I remember is that the margin in Kentucky early

indicated Clinton was in trouble. I remember feeling depressed very early that night. Kentucky was supposed to be close and it wasn't.

I seem to remember the MSNBC folks looking quite distressed early. By 11:00 PM or so, they were trying to come up with some scenario where Clinton might win. They were really stretching.

[Chitown Kev]

10. No, it wasn't the margin in Kentucky

It was the numbers that were coming out of Florida and the strength of Trump in the Panhandle that was the harbinger of trouble after people thought that Hillary would take Florida because of the early vote.

[Hoyt]

12. It was obvious from early votes that things weren't going well. Kentucky had a Dem governor,

expanded Medicaid, but early vote totals going heavily for Trump. The optimists might have held on, but I didn't hear anyone talking about a Clinton victory speech after 9:00 or so. I do, however, believe that a Prez should try to represent everyone as much as possible. So, I can see optimists talking about bringing us together during looming defeat.

[standingtall]

17. The margin in Ky was not suppose to be close

There was one poll showing Clinton winning in 2015. By 2016 the Democratic Governor your referring to had already served out his terms. A republican Matt Bevin had already won the Governorship in Kentucky in 2015.

[Hoyt]

19. The cities weren't good where she should have done well. I was sick by 8 Eastern.

[Hekate]

25. I was watching in the California time zone, and as the evening wore on ...

...I just kept shaking my head and saying "No. No. No." I was essentially all alone, stunned into incomprehension. I went outside and brought in my Hillary sign.

And no DU.

As for our democracy, which may or may not be finished, who knew it could be done so quickly and easily?

[mountain grammy]

18. Yeah, I seem to remember that too...

But I was fairly blitzed by then. It was only 9 in Co..

[Hoyt]

20. I would have been too had I been in Colorado. And we couldn't even get on DU.

It was really awful.

[mountain grammy]

22. I drove three miles on a dark mountain road stoned as shit

to get some xanax from a friend, then drove home..listening to john fuglesang's election night coverage that sounded like a wake. and no DU.

[KPN]

31. Yep, that's when I decided to go ahead and have a third glass of wine ...

and then a 4th, a 5th and so on. It was early in the evening (here on the west coast of course). Hung over on multiple dimensions the next morning.

[Honeycombe8]

49. I recall there being about 13 polls. HRC was leading in 12 of them.

Sometimes comfortably, sometimes by a margin.

First time in our Presidential election history that a candidate has been ahead in almost all the polls, and then lost.

Exit polls indicated they jived with the polls (although I've never regarded exit polls highly).

HRC was expected to win, which was why everyone was floored. They thought that not because of euphoria, but because of the data.

She took a hit after the Comey thing, but her WIDER lead margn narrowed...but she didn't lose her lead. The momentum wasn't with her, but again, the campaign had its internal data polling, and those late 13 polls.

I am one who thinks it's possible that Russia did hack into several key districts in two or three states. Pennsylvania is one of them.

[Hoyt]

53. I get it, but I felt the loss early in places where I expected her to win big. Hate it, but

Dems lost that night. Now fake new, some suppression in some places, etc., probably had an effect. But I think people underestimated number of white wingers who would vote, number of Dems who would sit out or vote for 3rd party, number of Hispanics who would vote for a bigot, etc.

There might have been people who just said, "I'll vote for Trump because he won't win to send some kind of message." I remember people doing that for a class Prez who was never right after getting run over by a dump truck when young.

If Ruskies did pull something like that off, which I doubt, the blame belongs on our security people -- nationally and locally.

[Honeycombe8]

55. It wouldn't have been that hard to hack individual districts.

Esp if they didn't have printout capabilities.

The DHS testified recently that it contacted key areas they thought Russia would target, to ask those districts to work with DHS to ensure no hacking. Some refused...as I recall, it was the Republican states or swing states where Repubs were in charge; they thought the DHS was going to take over their election process or be the one to hack them, I think. So no protection, when our intel KNEW they might be targeted.

We do know that Russia DID hack the registration rolls of some areas. The Russians are very experienced at this sort of thing. They got a puppet President elected in Ukraine.

We also know that Russia helped some GOP members in THEIR elections, as well.

It's a real possibility. We the public will never know, though. Not in our lifetime, anyway.

[Leith]

5. I'm So Sick of Hearing About Reaching Out to rethugs

Let THEM try reaching out for once. They've been real dicks about everything for decades.

The only thing I want to reach a rethug is my spit.

[calimary]

42. This!!!

Actually, I would be willing to reach out to them. With my "saluting finger" extended.

[herding cats]

6. We won't win by pandering to Trump supporters.

Either they see the light on their own, or they remain lost in the dark. It's a sad truth, but it's still truth. People who still support Trump are far beyond the reach of logic. They'll either have to suffer personal consequences of their vote which resonate with them, or they'll have to have loved ones do the same before they ever even consider rethinking their support. He has to hurt them before they realize they messed up. It's how they respond to stimuli.

Many people are emotion driven and just don't think rationally. I know that's scary, and hard to grasp, but it's a fact and it effects their politics, and every other aspect of their lives.

Trump ran a negative campaign based on white nationalism and fear of the 'others' which many people ate up with a spoon. He then peppered it with fake sympathy for jobs lost to international trade deals and further confusesd the shallow thinkers. Basically, he played to American's hate, fears and ignorance.

I don't ever want that to be who we are as a party.

[EffieBlack]

7. Exactly!

The very things that make us Democrats - or supposedly do - are the very reasons those people voted Republican. The only way to get them to switch to voting Democratic is to convince them that our core values are negotiable.

As far as I'm concerned, they can stay where they are. We don't need them and shouldn't want them in our party.

[herding cats]

8. The problem is some people are not too bright.

(Before I'm jumped on here, I'm incognito and posting on a Democratic forum. This is the place to hash out these harsh realities. I don't say things like this when I deal with voters in the wild.)

They feel something and that becomes their new reality. Then they find others who agree with their feelings and split off in a pack. Even if they're wrong, they exist in a self-validating world of social media and small private groups that reinforces their anger, hatred and biases. They believe to their core that they're correct and they're the victims.

The reality is many Trump supporters had opportunities open to them to better their lives, but they didn't have the guidance, drive or intelligence to utilize them and are now bitter others have done better than they did. This is a fact, and I personally know many such people. Their bitterness has lead to an irrational anger, and blind hatred that some people think we (Democrats) can somehow bridge. We can't. They have to want to heal themselves first, and they don't want to by a majority. They're like addicts lost in their addiction, they don't see themselves as having a problem, and until they do there's no reaching them.

We can't reach people who can't accept they're lost until they have their personal epiphany that leads them into the light. They have to start searching for the light before they can be reached.

They have to look for us before any hope is possible for them.

[Boomerproud]

11. I couldn't agree with you more.

I am surrounded by them every workday.

[herding cats]

13. I feel you.

I live and work amongst them daily. I know them all too well, too.

For some reason people want to ignore the words of people such as you and I who live and breathe their angst and hate daily in exchange for some intellectualse antidote of how it should be in a perfect world.

Reality check; there is no utopia. We're stuck with the realty of what our country really is, and we have to work within that flawed reality.

[murielm99]

16. I live in a blue state, but my part of the state

is rural and red.

I hear people, even in our own party talk about reaching out to white working-class males.

However, when I attend our area's JFK dinners, go to to fundraisers, picnics and meetings for Democrats, what do I see? White working-class males. I see farmers, union workers and skilled laborers. I see former military people, too.

Yes, these people exist. Many of their coworkers may be republicans, but not all of them. I see as many white working class males as teachers, lawyers and other professionals. If more white working-class males are going to begin voting for Democrats, it cannot be because we compromise our principles or change our platform. Maybe they will have to hit rock bottom before they see the light. But I will never stand for my party pandering to ignorance and hate.

[brer cat]

27. You truly understand, herding cats.

I live among them, and your analogy to addicts is spot on. "We can't reach people who can't accept they're lost..."

[Kind of Blue]

43. "We can't reach people who can't accept they're lost...

until they have their personal epiphany that leads them into the light."

Fantastic assessments, herding cats! But my feeling is that the majority of them haven't been able to accept nor forced to face that loss since they lost the Civil War with the country making concessions to them, and they building gigantic monuments of their failed generals and leaders, ignoring history while rewriting school text on what slavery actually meant, Jim Crow, red-lining, voter suppression, police brutality and killings, et cetera. Jesus, they've just been allowed to continue to massage their feelings of victimization for being stripped of their antebellum good old days. Nowhere in Europe will we see a statue honoring Gengish Khan. Why not a big old statue of Hitler? Of course, not! But no, the losers here are given a special space to continually normalize hate and carry on as usual, helped in large measure by their unconscious Democratic-non voting-because-I-didn't-get-the-candidate-I-want-brethren.

To hell with them, they've been at too long at it and are lost. Just saw a sign the other day saying, "Thank you, Russia."

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

48. Righteous rant! It's just amazing that we're expected to see the battle flag of

those who would destroy the Union to uphold their pernicious white supremacist culture as just an innocuous symbol of heritage.

Surely there are other symbols that they could use to represent and celebrate particular, non racist, non traitorous aspects of their heritage. But no, they have chosen the flag of their violent, bloody rebellion. And we should honor that?

[Kind of Blue]

56. "...we're expected to see the battle flag of

those who would destroy the Union to uphold their pernicious white supremacist culture as just an innocuous symbol of heritage."

That so reminds me of the mother of one of my niece's friends who was trying to convince me, a black woman, to vote for 45 or explain why she was, because "the white male is the most endangered group on the planet." Unbelievable and believe it or not, a former Democrat.

I don't think they can celebrate their heritage without supremacy because that's what their heritage is all about. They've been preparing for a race war forever and grateful to Putin for putting that racist/sexist vulgarian in office.

They couldn't have picked a better candidate for us to gladly say fuck off now and forever, let alone try to reach out to his supporters...Eww.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

58. White men most endangered group?

So, the fact that the percentage of white men is slowing diminishing over time is more troubling to them than the fact of black genocide by cop in America? That the living, breathing black loved ones of black Americans are being jailed at disproportionate rates for the enrichment of the immoral private prison industry, if not outright murdered in cold blood, does not stand out as a more pressing problem?

That is some white supremacist BS of the highest, most vile order.

Still, I do have a modicum of sympathy for those lost souls. One branch of my family tree sprang from a family who settled in rural Virginia in the late 1600s. My grandmother, of that line, was in many ways, a lovely woman. I certainly loved her, but was utterly mortified by her deep-seated racism. She grew up with the casually ingrained idea that she was of a superior race to any black person who ever lived. It was as natural and obvious to her as that water is wet.

That belief has been passed down, undiluted, to some of her great-grandchildren who don't even live in the South (unless you consider Baltimore the South, which some do.) But I can't help believing it wouldn't have stuck so firmly if not for the incessant propaganda disseminated by the RW. The constant, insidious reinforcement of any lingering bigotry is a very powerful tool.

[Kind of Blue]

61. I'm sorry to hear about your grandmom's beliefs

though she illustrates exactly my point that "It was as natural and obvious to her as water is wet," couldn't put it better. And I do agree that it is incessant RW propaganda that so many liberals/independents are also mindlessly triggered by along with the longstanding need to pacify their brethren, because at a deep level they agree with a lot of racist bullshit.

Though I've long stopped looking for the modicum of sympathy, it's really cool to talk to you who've escaped the propaganda

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

62. I reckon most humans have deep-seated beliefs that don't

hold up to scrutiny. Many of them harmless, others, not so much. I'm sure my psyche is not pure, considering my upbringing involved at lot of contact with the super-racist relatives. I have two women though, I believe, to thank for putting me on the right track, away from that.

My mom, daughter of that GM I spoke of, remarkably, never used the N word, despite everyone else in her family thinking nothing of it. Which seems a small thing, I know, but was just one manifestation of her rejection of the insidious white supremacist beliefs of her family and community.

She says her awakening came as a child on long trips down to visit the Virginia relatives. Her family would get to take restroom breaks at plentiful, nice, uncrowded rest stops. She was confused and appalled though, when they passed one of the few places where blacks were allowed to use the restrooms and saw the families waiting in long lines at a not-so-nice rest stop.

The other was my dad's mom. Her parents, Polish immigrants, headed a typical Baltimore city family of the early 1900s, in which racism was just a fact of life. She, I think simply out of her natural compassion for fellow humans, didn't buy into it. She might have believed in some weird stuff, like copper bracelets to stop arthritis (I know some still believe) and burning your toast to make it less caloric (OK, infinitesimally, yes, but yuck, it's burnt!), but she just rejected the idea of whites as a superior race, over blacks, Jews, anyone. It just didn't make any sense to her.

Mom and grandma surely held vestiges of those beliefs learned subconsciously from their environments, but both rejected racism where they consciously perceived it. I guess that's the best they could do, and the best I can do, as well.

Nice chatting with you.

[Alwaysna]

46. Pointing out they take

responsibility for their own decisions is ineffective as well.

[rppper]

34. Exactly

It was no different during the Bush years, albeit to a somewhat lesser degree. By 06-08, people's wallets were hurting...the corresponding elections showed this. Bush lacked 45s cult of personality though. I'm just wondering when his cult will reach their "enough is enough" point....

[renate]

35. I love every sentence that you wrote

Very well said.

I think the more people are pushed, the harder they push back. (Fair enough, that's human nature.) As you said, they won't care until they have to suffer personal consequences of their vote. Trying to influence them is simply a waste of time. I wouldn't have thought this six months ago, but the fact that so many Trump voters still support this administration is a clear demonstration of their blind obedience.

[onecaliberal]

9. Fuck every last one of them. I have zero fucks to give about any of them.

[Thew]

14. Cabinet picks

I had a similar thought when cabinet choices were being discussed.

At a similar point, pundits were talking how many Rs president-elect Obama would include in his cabinet. Not even a mention of this for Trump (or even W that I can recall)

It seems only Dems are expected to be the conciliatory adults.

[cilla4progress]

15. I'm expecting this will lead to

civil insurrection of some sort, ultimately. I'm sorry. Really depressed at this point. Did anyone read Joy Reid today, in The Daily Beast?

[BigmanPigman]

21. No, what did she write?

I saw her on TV a few days ago and she said there is no way to reach them (the idiot's base). She also said our only realistic hope was 2018. She is very smart and I trust her judgment more than most.

[cilla4progress]

23. Yes,

That's basically what she wrote.

[Hekate]

24. Right you are, Effie, at least as regards the pundits and bobbleheads

[BainsBane]

26. I think some are operating under the delusion

they can recreate the Democratic Party by forging an alliance of white, affluent voters they have decided are the "working class." It seems that the current base of single women and people of color just isn't voting how they want.

Since those Trump voters are very happy with their president, the only alliance they are likely to be interested in is ensuring Donny gets a second term.

[Honeycombe8]

54. No one has identified the "working class" as affluent, that I've heard.

The middle class person or small family grosses about $53,000 a year. So the working class make less than that, but above the poverty level.

Maybe you're thinking of blue collar or union workers. They can make good money, but they are a little different from white collar in that they sweat for a living and do grunt jobs.

The Dem. Party used to be the middle class, mainly. The Dem Party backed unions, OSHA regulations, safety at work, the mortgage deduction, etc., all to raise the standard of living for average Americans. SOME of this group started voting for Republicans along the way for a variety of reasons. My thinking is it was because of social issues and trade agreements, but I don't know that for sure. The Dem. Party quit focusing on the things they focused on in prior years, and focused more on social issues. But that doesn't mean they all changed parties.

These blue collar workers are not the Trump base, but are some of them, IMO.

The Dem Party can remind them which party is responsible for unions, the 40 hr work week, safety at work, and all the things we take for granted. Also remind them of the Dem Party's support of women issues...some young women don't realize how different their lives would be if Dems hadn't pushed for equal rights.

[Vinca]

29. We can reach all we want, we won't change the minds of Trump voters. The only thing that will wake

them up is a letter in the mail telling them their Medicaid is terminated or their job is being moved to China. They view Don as their lord and savior. It's cult-like.

[KPN]

30. Have to admit, I am getting pretty frigging tired of Trump voters I know.

For the most part, we have ceased communicating. At the same time, understanding the dynamic that led some people to vote for T and using that understanding to our advantage going forward (which in my view is really just about standing for the right economic philosophy/policy) are two different things.

Yes: fuck reaching out to deplorables!

But also Yes: commit to and follow through on FDR era economic basics.

[spixxen]

33. On The Five on FoXNews on election night I remember them announcing just as the show ended that.....

....Hillary's camp had cancelled the fireworks celebration scheduled for that night.

If I recall right, Eric Bolling react with a faux reaction of disbelief.

[hughee99]

36. On election night, I don't recall anyone saying it looked

Like she was going to win, or that she needed to reach out to republicans. I was flipping back and forth between CNN, MSNBC and (shamefully) Fauxnews though, so maybe you saw all this somewhere else.

[EffieBlack]

37. Whatever

If you didn't see what I - and many other people - saw why bother entering the conversation?

Unless you're trying to suggest that I'm a liar or don't know what I'm talking about - and if you've spent any time here, you'd know that neither are the case.

[hughee99]

39. I'm suggesting you set up a premise where you claimed

Something was far more widespread than my anecdotal evidence would indicate, and used that as a pretext to complain about hypocrisy. To back up your argument, you could name a list of specific people (commentators) who behaved in the way you described to support your argument and a large enough list to suggest that it was a widespread occurance. That would really demonstrate to anyone reading that you know what you're talking about and I don't. What do I know, though, I'm just a newbie.

[Egnever]

38. Oh for fucks sake do you just make shit up and post it?

This is exactly what is wrong with our country today people just make shit up and post it as fact and then other folks buy into it because they like the narrative.

www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/columns/2016/11/09/president-elect-trump-must-reach-across-aisle/pGTlL144SsWIq4tHQ1PmYO/story.html

Just one example of people doing exactly what you claim they didn't. I am not going to waste my time looking for more but your op is based on made up reality.

Trump is an incompetent buffoon but you are just making shit up and running with it.

[NastyRiffraff]

40. Anyone who STILL doesn't think the election was stolen

isn't paying attention. And no, I'm not about to "reach out" to the bigoted morons who voted for him.

[Tarheel_Dem]

44. My standard response to those who declare that we must "reach out" is "fuck 'em". n/t

[47of74]

47. Mine too.

And in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Any Democrat who wants to tell me to reach out to these Branch Trumpividians is hereby invited to go perform a sex act on themselves in the middle of a busy interstate highway.

[Tarheel_Dem]

60. That made spew! "Branch Trumpividians"?

[AndyTiedye]

52. Can I Use One of These to "Reach Out"?

[Tarheel_Dem]

59. It's probably much safer that way.

[YOHABLO]

45. I thought we weren't going to rehash the past. We'd better get ready for the future.

[SergeStorms]

50. I'll reach out to them.....

with a cattle prod in my hand. Screw the "joy buzzer", they need some REAL prodding!

[Throck]

51. Who's Trump?

[misanthrope]

57. The Democratic Party has been "reaching out" to the American right for my entire life

and the next birthday I have with a zero in it will be 60. So much so that what would have been Eisenhower Republicans have had a home in the Democratic Party for a couple of decades now.

It's one of the things I fear from future defections from the GOP, that they will further marginalize what leftist voices remain.

[Blue_Tires]

63. Yeah, I've been ignoring that bullshit talking point since 2008...

Win, we have to "reach out" to the GOP and not be too harsh on them...

Lose, we have to "reach out" to the GOP and acknowledge our shortcomings with voters...