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Hassin Bin Sober

(26,325 posts)
Fri Jul 14, 2017, 10:20 PM Jul 2017

Bernie Sanders primary challenger appears to slur transgender people as 'lady boys'

Bernie Sanders’ primary challenger appears to slur transgender people as ‘lady boys’ in unearthed Facebook post

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/07/bernie-sanders-primary-challenger-appears-to-slur-transgender-people-as-lady-boys-in-unearthed-facebook-post/

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) has a primary challenger in Vermont — and it looks like his past statements have already landed him in hot water.

Jon Svitavsky, a homeless shelter executive director, self-described “Christian liberal” and first-time political candidate, appeared to make transphobic comments on a post he made in a political Facebook group over a year ago.

“So if a lady boy in high school, wants to shower with the girls, we’ll just take his word for it??” Svitavksy wrote in the “Chicago Style Politics” Facebook group on May 13, 2016. The post was accompanied by a link to an article about President Barack Obama’s administration’s move to allow transgender students to use the bathrooms that align with their gender identities in public schools.

.....

Raw Story reached out to both Svitavsky and the Vermont Democratic Party for comment, but neither has yet to reply.

216 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Bernie Sanders primary challenger appears to slur transgender people as 'lady boys' (Original Post) Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2017 OP
A lot more to this than is in your post ProudLib72 Jul 2017 #1
Actually, there is such a thing as a Christian liberal . . . markpkessinger Jul 2017 #216
Oops. Look at those screenshots. So much for all those claims of FAKE NEWS!!1! beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #2
Are we sure that's Raw Story? Rob H. Jul 2017 #5
Lololol! beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #7
Well, the author has a foreign-sounding name (which is irrelevant, ftr)--hey, wait! Rob H. Jul 2017 #10
That's a good question. beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #206
Well, one of them has Rob H. Jul 2017 #209
I'm glad they keep kicking this thread though. beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #210
Bernie will easily beat both of these fools. Agschmid Jul 2017 #11
Yeah he will. beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #12
If you look around, there is an opp research directory sfwriter Jul 2017 #3
Christian liberal elleng Jul 2017 #4
BUT HE'S A REAL DEMOCRAT GODDAMIT11!11!!111!!! QC Jul 2017 #6
He's a real...something...alright. Lady Freedom Returns Jul 2017 #27
It's our DUTY to unite behind the Democratic candidate... regnaD kciN Jul 2017 #138
It's our DUTY to support people who support progressive ideas. Initech Jul 2017 #144
This... thank you! InAbLuEsTaTe Jul 2017 #182
lol, you may be right... gets confusing sometimes. InAbLuEsTaTe Jul 2017 #180
I think they make a lovely couple--inasfar as political opponents ismnotwasm Jul 2017 #8
So far two primary challengers Progressive dog Jul 2017 #9
Anti-trans, anti-vax, anti-science, and racist Rob H. Jul 2017 #13
chicago style politics. mopinko Jul 2017 #14
Yeah I noticed that too. Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2017 #15
I've only seen one or two DU'ers support this kook emulatorloo Jul 2017 #18
I can tell you're super serious ornotna Jul 2017 #22
I was born and raised in Texas. emulatorloo Jul 2017 #23
*snort* beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #30
I wish you were right Jim Lane Jul 2017 #50
Well said as always, Jim Lane. beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #95
I just hope we didn't alienate any "Twilight" fans. (n/t) Jim Lane Jul 2017 #142
That's not even funny. beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #143
In other words...Twilight fans should get the Forks out of here. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #181
... beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #186
OK, I had to do a search to get that joke. Jim Lane Jul 2017 #196
nope, they dont. mopinko Jul 2017 #24
Yep. And really picked up a lot of steam after Obama was elected. Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2017 #47
I noticed it too, you see that term used frequently by Deplorables. beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #38
Freaking Bigot Matthew28 Jul 2017 #16
I hope Sanders and his fans spending a lot of time fighting this primary. nt stevenleser Jul 2017 #17
LOL, as if crackpot Svitavsky won't be forced to drop out long before this year is up. nt Rob H. Jul 2017 #19
Then why are y'all wasting yr energy on this idiot? emulatorloo Jul 2017 #21
Hey, look at that! Rob H. Jul 2017 #26
Was a question, not a directive. emulatorloo Jul 2017 #28
I wasn't confused at all Rob H. Jul 2017 #29
Enjoy reading your posts. Just wanted to know why you think this idiot is a threat to Bernie emulatorloo Jul 2017 #32
This message was self-deleted by its author Rob H. Jul 2017 #33
Who said he was a threat? No reason to use a strawman. beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #34
Why do you care? beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #31
Dude's a loser. emulatorloo Jul 2017 #35
On that we agree. beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #36
Yep, Bernie's got this. emulatorloo Jul 2017 #39
At a 75% approval rating...not likely... WoonTars Jul 2017 #25
I'm sure Fox News will give him some air time. Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2017 #41
! beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #42
Yeah, unfortunately the poster you are cheering forgot to google stevenleser Jul 2017 #45
Appearing on Fox News is dubious, amirite? Voltaire2 Jul 2017 #55
They do seem to find... tonedevil Jul 2017 #70
Tackling dummies, basically. QC Jul 2017 #97
If you don't like how Bernie handled himself on that network you should tell him. stevenleser Jul 2017 #194
Fox gets one thing... tonedevil Jul 2017 #197
Nope, nor am I who implied that. nt stevenleser Jul 2017 #193
Here's Bernie on Fox News Sunday stevenleser Jul 2017 #48
Why not, they give Bernie plenty any time he wants it stevenleser Jul 2017 #44
Link? Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2017 #86
There are two of them on this thread. Feel free to watch them. nt stevenleser Jul 2017 #192
Here's Bernie on none other than the O'Reilly factor stevenleser Jul 2017 #46
A show you've been on many times melman Jul 2017 #49
Yep. You should address that to the original person who brought up FNC on this thread stevenleser Jul 2017 #195
I don't care what letter he has after his name ornotna Jul 2017 #20
I trust the people of Vermont to make decisions for themselves. politicat Jul 2017 #37
That's the end of his career. Hieronymus Jul 2017 #40
Fuck him and anyone who would support him over a LGBTQ rights supporter like Bernie. nt LostOne4Ever Jul 2017 #43
Wow. And some here support this creep. SixString Jul 2017 #51
Post removed Post removed Jul 2017 #53
Seems there are two flawed people who will be running in the primary. NCTraveler Jul 2017 #52
Worried? Hahaha Kentonio Jul 2017 #57
Absolute comments like yours have no place in politics. NCTraveler Jul 2017 #58
I don't really care what you think has a place in politics to be honest Kentonio Jul 2017 #59
"I don't really care what you think has a place in politics to be honest" NCTraveler Jul 2017 #60
Please don't play the innocent victim Kentonio Jul 2017 #61
Very personal. Sorry that's what it's about. NCTraveler Jul 2017 #63
If what you say is true Lordquinton Jul 2017 #127
How do you come to the thought of "so badly"? NCTraveler Jul 2017 #190
Was he looking out for the most vulnerable of America when he co-wrote and sponsored a bill to dump lunamagica Jul 2017 #91
That's one way to look at it Kentonio Jul 2017 #94
So, what is your version? lunamagica Jul 2017 #96
Crickets sheshe2 Jul 2017 #136
Sheila Jackson Lee co sponsored that legislation. Was she trying to kill Brown People too? Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2017 #139
Those pesky facts again. beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #140
You like pesky facts, huh? Here, I have some for you. But first, let me say this lunamagica Jul 2017 #167
Tl; dr beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #173
Link? lunamagica Jul 2017 #149
Here's a link to all of the cosponsors: beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #150
Cicadas. Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2017 #156
I thought we could only post four paragraphs from any source. Was I wrong? lunamagica Jul 2017 #157
I only posted two links. beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #160
TOS lunamagica Jul 2017 #164
Yes. You were. Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2017 #161
No, I'm not. TOS: lunamagica Jul 2017 #163
Congressional transcripts aren't copy written. Not yet anyway... Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2017 #165
Oh, really? I stand corrected. Then I can post this lunamagica Jul 2017 #166
Tl;dr. The Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee cosponsored it and President Clinton signed it Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2017 #169
This is about Sanders. Don't deflect. lunamagica Jul 2017 #171
No, this is about a bipartisan piece of legislation attempting to deal, in a sensible way, with a... Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2017 #175
Bent out of shape over some 20 year old legislation? Seriously? lunamagica Jul 2017 #176
So what if Sierra Blanca is on an "earthquake line"? What does tha mean for the future? Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2017 #187
Sigh. Please read lunamagica Jul 2017 #203
I don't understand the need to vilify one person for this legislation. beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #178
Nope, I heard it years ago. beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #177
Thanks, but that's irrelevant. None of those people ran or are currently planning to run for POTUS lunamagica Jul 2017 #168
How can it be irrelevant when you asked for the information ? beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #170
I did not. I only asked for a link to Sheila Jackson Lee's speech, which was posted without a link lunamagica Jul 2017 #172
That wasn't her speech. And you didn't specify which fact you wanted verified. beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #174
The post didn't include any link. So, if I asked for a link it goes without saying that lunamagica Jul 2017 #204
Your post simply said: "link?" so I provided you with a link to both the claim and the speech. beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #205
Where did I say I wanted a list of sponsors? lunamagica Jul 2017 #207
I don't know how else to explain this. You didn't specify which link you wanted. beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #208
Sure, keep kicking it. I don't like Svitavsky. And people can also read about lunamagica Jul 2017 #211
You're making it sound like Bernie is to blame for the whole thing. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #183
But everything is his fault. Just ask Jon Svitavsky. beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #185
My God...Bernie is Khan! Ken Burch Jul 2017 #201
He's WORSE than Kahn. beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #212
There is no way he could have stopped it? He fought hard for it. He even lunamagica Jul 2017 #202
That would be nice, wouldn't it? NurseJackie Jul 2017 #62
Amazing to see who is getting upset at the concept... NCTraveler Jul 2017 #64
No, we're upset to see DUers cheering an open bigot. white_wolf Jul 2017 #81
That's what I mean. NCTraveler Jul 2017 #85
Many DUers are. I've seen plenty of people express hope this guy beats Sanders. white_wolf Jul 2017 #87
There aren't "many" nor are the reasons simply binary, for the few. T NCTraveler Jul 2017 #92
Exactly. beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #88
What I don't understand is this... white_wolf Jul 2017 #90
I think it's more about sour grapes than anything else. beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #93
Oh and dont forget accused of fake news Heaven Sent Jul 2017 #100
So you'd rather have a homophobic bigot in office merely because he's on your team? white_wolf Jul 2017 #80
LOL! What I actually said: "I'm all in favor of having as many Democrats in the Senate as possible." NurseJackie Jul 2017 #83
The implications of your post were clear. white_wolf Jul 2017 #84
LOL! NurseJackie Jul 2017 #135
Right. Party over principles are Republican-like behavior Heaven Sent Jul 2017 #101
Do you really think it is money that will keep Bernie in his seat and... aikoaiko Jul 2017 #73
I think it's a combination of both. NCTraveler Jul 2017 #74
That challenger hasn't a prayer of beating Senator Sanders MineralMan Jul 2017 #54
Nobody here is paying attention to them. The woman who has announced VermontKevin Jul 2017 #56
"appears" George II Jul 2017 #65
Wait, you don't think referring to transgender girls as 'lady boys' is a slur? beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #77
We don't know for sure that he said that, do we Beam? George II Jul 2017 #78
Actually we do, George, since it's still on Facebook. You've seen it yourself, remember? beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #79
It's amazing that people are *still* playing dumb about this guy Rob H. Jul 2017 #99
Isn't it? beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #102
***Breaking*** FBI releases photo of suspected time-traveling hacker and accomplice Rob H. Jul 2017 #124
THAT EXPLAINS EVERYTHING! beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #126
As I said, we don't know for sure that he said that. George II Jul 2017 #106
Except the post is clearly from Jon Svitavsky's account. beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #107
I'm not saying it's aliens, but... QC Jul 2017 #108
I KNEW IT!!! beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #109
I am the alien. We are all aliens. Autumn Jul 2017 #198
There are some very talented and sophisticated hackers out there. Until he's actually interviewed.. George II Jul 2017 #111
So sophisticated they can time travel? I had no idea hackers had that kind of technology. beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #112
What's this "time travel" stuff? George II Jul 2017 #114
Couldn't the same hackers who faked his facebook page, fake an interview with him? Warren DeMontague Jul 2017 #117
There are some very talented and sophisticated hackers out there, Warren. beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #118
All I can say is, when a Terminator is sent back to kill me Warren DeMontague Jul 2017 #120
I'll see if Skynet can arrange it. beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #121
Looking someone up on Facebook isn't Doxxing Lordquinton Jul 2017 #132
Good catch. Since when is vetting a candidate doxxing? beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #137
There was no digging done here Lordquinton Jul 2017 #147
True. beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #148
He has yet to deny it as well Lordquinton Jul 2017 #188
He hasn't deleted those slurs either so he must think they're acceptable. beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #189
Very telling Lordquinton Jul 2017 #191
Funny how the concern for facts and truth Lordquinton Jul 2017 #122
What an astute observation, LQ. beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #123
Absolutely hilarious Lordquinton Jul 2017 #131
Fuckin' magnets, how do they work? beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #133
What even are they? Lordquinton Jul 2017 #134
Did you know they have a meme generator for that now? beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #141
Ugh, factory created memes... Lordquinton Jul 2017 #146
True. All sensory data is relayed to me through my sensory apparatus. Warren DeMontague Jul 2017 #110
Of course, I am always receptive to suggestions... beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #113
it's a classic. Plus, shit, it's like Carpenter & O'Bannon's student film from UCLA or something. Warren DeMontague Jul 2017 #115
It's an acquired taste. beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #116
Only yes, we do nt Rob H. Jul 2017 #128
Ok, he typed it and posted it online Bradical79 Jul 2017 #151
Don't care. Foamfollower Jul 2017 #66
So you don't give a damn about actual ideals or policy Kentonio Jul 2017 #69
Some would support Genghis Khan provided he ran with a D. white_wolf Jul 2017 #82
People who would support a bigot are bigots. Nt LostOne4Ever Jul 2017 #104
Yes indeed. beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #105
So much this Rob H. Jul 2017 #129
ACtually, I give far more of a damn over actual ideals or paolicy than any extremist leftist purist Foamfollower Jul 2017 #153
Neither of which Sanders did Kentonio Jul 2017 #200
Any D over an I? LostOne4Ever Jul 2017 #103
Yep, I'd take TEN Zell Millers over any (I) you'd care to name. Foamfollower Jul 2017 #152
Party over principle? nt dflprincess Jul 2017 #154
Principle over meaningless bullshit. Foamfollower Jul 2017 #159
"...you cannot have principles or morals without party." What? aikoaiko Jul 2017 #199
Lol. You don't even know who Zell Miller is, do you Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2017 #155
Post removed Post removed Jul 2017 #158
Wow. I almost forgot about his speech at the RNC. beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #162
Not if replacing the I with a D meant getting someone significantly to the right of the I. Ken Burch Jul 2017 #184
How is he a primary challenger? oberliner Jul 2017 #67
Yes he does. Kentonio Jul 2017 #68
No, he doesn't oberliner Jul 2017 #71
You forgot... tonedevil Jul 2017 #72
He runs in the primary, and did in (IIRC) the last 2 races Kentonio Jul 2017 #76
Sanders primary opponent is a loon Egnever Jul 2017 #75
As a karate expert I say "the rent is too high" guy is credible Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2017 #89
Draft Howard Dean! Expecting Rain Jul 2017 #98
I bet Howard Dean has better stuff to do than engage in an ill-advised grudge match against Bernie Warren DeMontague Jul 2017 #119
He did a very, very, very wicked thing, QC Jul 2017 #125
You got it. Warren DeMontague Jul 2017 #130
Howard Dean should have been president already. Initech Jul 2017 #145
Were they TRYING to find the worst possible candidate? Ken Burch Jul 2017 #179
Seems like it, doesn't it? beam me up scottie Jul 2017 #213
And just think, this is just the stuff we know about Rob H. Jul 2017 #214
"They" who? NurseJackie Jul 2017 #215

ProudLib72

(17,984 posts)
1. A lot more to this than is in your post
Fri Jul 14, 2017, 10:24 PM
Jul 2017

What the fuck is a "Christian liberal"?

He doesn't believe in vaccinations. He doesn't think there is mental illness.

This guy sounds just as loony as Alex Jones, only maybe a little more subdued.

markpkessinger

(8,392 posts)
216. Actually, there is such a thing as a Christian liberal . . .
Mon Jul 17, 2017, 07:24 AM
Jul 2017

. . . but I question whether this guy is one!

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
2. Oops. Look at those screenshots. So much for all those claims of FAKE NEWS!!1!
Fri Jul 14, 2017, 10:24 PM
Jul 2017


I guess Raw Story is in on the conspiracy and shady "internet smear campaign".

Rob H.

(5,351 posts)
5. Are we sure that's Raw Story?
Fri Jul 14, 2017, 10:29 PM
Jul 2017

That doesn't look like any Raw Story page *I'm* familiar with!

Also, at sad trombone.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
7. Lololol!
Fri Jul 14, 2017, 10:32 PM
Jul 2017

I don't know Rob, that link looks MIGHTY SUSPICIOUS to me.

Does the file contain any foreign language?

Rob H.

(5,351 posts)
10. Well, the author has a foreign-sounding name (which is irrelevant, ftr)--hey, wait!
Fri Jul 14, 2017, 10:46 PM
Jul 2017

Where did all Svitavsky's defenders go?

Rob H.

(5,351 posts)
209. Well, one of them has
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 07:37 PM
Jul 2017

along with at least one new one, blissfully unaware how defending this zero-chance crank is making thm look.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
210. I'm glad they keep kicking this thread though.
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 07:40 PM
Jul 2017

The people who said those slurs were Fake News!!1! will show up to admit they were wrong eventually, don't you think?

And I'm sure everyone agrees it's important to vet any potential candidates so that we all know what to expect during the race. It would be irresponsible to ignore a candidate's use of bigoted slurs on social media.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
12. Yeah he will.
Fri Jul 14, 2017, 11:02 PM
Jul 2017

One is a bigot and the other doesn't even live in Vermont.

Maybe Kid Rock can join them if that whole Michigan thing doesn't work out.

 

sfwriter

(3,032 posts)
3. If you look around, there is an opp research directory
Fri Jul 14, 2017, 10:25 PM
Jul 2017

This is just one of many stupid things he has said and scrubbed.

regnaD kciN

(26,044 posts)
138. It's our DUTY to unite behind the Democratic candidate...
Reply to QC (Reply #6)
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 09:42 PM
Jul 2017

...against a non-Democrat like Sanders, right???


Initech

(100,063 posts)
144. It's our DUTY to support people who support progressive ideas.
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 10:32 PM
Jul 2017

To me, that's what being a liberal is. Calling trans people "lady boys" is the opposite of supporting progressive ideas.

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,325 posts)
15. Yeah I noticed that too.
Fri Jul 14, 2017, 11:58 PM
Jul 2017

I think some of his newest biggest fans don't realize what that bullshit is about.

emulatorloo

(44,116 posts)
18. I've only seen one or two DU'ers support this kook
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 12:31 AM
Jul 2017

Y'all can go off high alert, Bernie has nothing to worry about.

iMHO ya'll are wasting yr time excoriating a couple DU'ers and pretending they represent most of DU. Because they don't. Everybody knows this guy is an idiot.

 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
50. I wish you were right
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 02:27 AM
Jul 2017

You can look at this thread and see more than one or two.

Along with the expressions of delight that someone is running against the most progressive member of the U.S. Senate, you'll find thinly veiled personal attacks on anyone who criticizes this Svitavsky character. The posts exposing Svitavsky's bigotry are "a bit of a hit job." It's deemed suspicious that "this stuff seems to roil up whenever Russia stuff breaks."

I don't think the Svitavsky cheerleading squad represents most of DU, but AFAIK no one asserted that.

I do agree with you that Bernie has nothing to worry about. If Bernie wanted to spend the legal minimum (a filing fee, photocopying petition pages for people to sign, whatever) and no more, while Svitavsky got contributions from around the country as indicated by the comments on his campaign Facebook page (gee, I wonder who's keen to help him), it wouldn't matter. Bernie, without campaign staff, without advertising, would still clean his clock.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
95. Well said as always, Jim Lane.
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 03:51 PM
Jul 2017

That thread was quite an eye opener. But we did complete the quadfecta with references to Star Trek, Star Wars, Doctor Who and Harry Potter!

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
143. That's not even funny.
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 10:21 PM
Jul 2017

Twilight fans aren't fit to be in the same galaxy as nerds. They belong in the teeny bopper romance section of the universe.

 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
196. OK, I had to do a search to get that joke.
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 11:09 AM
Jul 2017

So the result of this subthread is that I learned something about the "Twilight" series.

This development may be the most notable consequence of the Svitavsky campaign.

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,325 posts)
47. Yep. And really picked up a lot of steam after Obama was elected.
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 01:54 AM
Jul 2017

Freeper s didn't give a shit about Chicago untill 2009

My freeper sister in law used to love to come up to Chicago. Untill Obama was elected.

Then it was "Chicago machine politics" and "democrat run black on black crime"

One of my partner's cousins posted after The World Series he hoped they "burn that shithole to the ground". The other sister reminded him his cousin lives there and he just said "he needs to move"

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
38. I noticed it too, you see that term used frequently by Deplorables.
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 01:03 AM
Jul 2017

The same kind who always bring up "black on black" crime whenever a cop gets caught beating the hell out of an unarmed minority.

Matthew28

(1,797 posts)
16. Freaking Bigot
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 12:00 AM
Jul 2017

Such people need to join the republican party! How is this jerk even within 50 points of sanders.

Rob H.

(5,351 posts)
26. Hey, look at that!
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 12:50 AM
Jul 2017

On the list of things that determine what I post on the internet and when, your name doesn't appear anywhere!

Rob H.

(5,351 posts)
29. I wasn't confused at all
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 12:53 AM
Jul 2017

It's still noydb when, what, why, or where I post. You don't want to read my posts because you think I'm wasting my time, put me on Ignore.

Response to emulatorloo (Reply #32)

WoonTars

(694 posts)
25. At a 75% approval rating...not likely...
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 12:49 AM
Jul 2017

....but nice to see you want to include everyone in the 'big tent' going into 2018...very constructive...

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,325 posts)
41. I'm sure Fox News will give him some air time.
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 01:13 AM
Jul 2017

They are always up for getting some goofy looking flunky to go after the left wing of the party.

Bob Beckel, Alan Colmes etc. etc.

I always remember what Al Franken said about the Alan Comes/Hannity dynamic - Hannity doing layups while Colmes gets a bucket of confetti in the face.

I'm sure being a homophobe and a racist won't preclude his on air appearances.





 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
70. They do seem to find...
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 01:51 PM
Jul 2017

particularly lightweight left leaning pundits to show the weakness of arguments from the left.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
194. If you don't like how Bernie handled himself on that network you should tell him.
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 09:06 AM
Jul 2017

I don't know why you are posting that here.

 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
197. Fox gets one thing...
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 11:23 AM
Jul 2017

from politicians, Senator Sanders is a boost to any of their shows. They get something different from left leaning pundits. The ones they get are lightweights who can't really defend themselves. It's one of the tricks Fox uses to discredit the liberal argument. The pundits always wind up looking pathetic.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
44. Why not, they give Bernie plenty any time he wants it
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 01:32 AM
Jul 2017

Last edited Sat Jul 15, 2017, 02:28 AM - Edit history (1)

They generally like anyone from the left who attacks the Democratic Party.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
195. Yep. You should address that to the original person who brought up FNC on this thread
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 09:07 AM
Jul 2017

as if it was a bad thing.

ornotna

(10,799 posts)
20. I don't care what letter he has after his name
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 12:36 AM
Jul 2017

He's a first rate scumbag. He won't make it to the primary.

politicat

(9,808 posts)
37. I trust the people of Vermont to make decisions for themselves.
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 01:01 AM
Jul 2017

They are well aware of what they want in their representatives.

Any fool with the free time to stand outside a farmer's market and collect 500 valid registered voter signatures (so usually 1000 to be safe) can run for office in Vermont. It doesn't mean they'll get more than some fresh air, some exercise and a few earfuls from the disgruntled.

Response to SixString (Reply #51)

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
52. Seems there are two flawed people who will be running in the primary.
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 10:37 AM
Jul 2017

Not sure that it matters. No one is going to unseat a well funded career politician. That said, how quick the blow back has been when this topic comes up makes me think some are a bit worried. It will be interesting to see if there will be any other entrants. Would be nice to have a democrat in the seat.

 

Kentonio

(4,377 posts)
57. Worried? Hahaha
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 11:11 AM
Jul 2017

There isn't a politician in America who could beat Bernie in that seat. What's 'worrying' is that so many so called Democrats are so eager to try and unseat the most progressive and popular Senator in America because apparently our ideals matter less than gettting some kind of twisted revenge for hurt feelings.

He wants a better America for the most vulnerable in society. If someone has a problem with that, then they're no ally of mine.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
58. Absolute comments like yours have no place in politics.
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 11:44 AM
Jul 2017

Outside of the nervous laughter, it's hard to take such talk seriously. Comes off as nothing more than bluster which proves my point.

I do agree that it would be almost impossible. You don't just remove monied career politicians.

Revenge? Not here. I don't get that.

 

Kentonio

(4,377 posts)
59. I don't really care what you think has a place in politics to be honest
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 12:00 PM
Jul 2017

On one hand we have a career politician who has a transparent and consistent record of being on the right side of history and fighting for Democratic ideals, and on the other we have a certain subsection of the Democratic Party (who didn't have a single bad word to say about him until he ran) who suddenly want him to lose his seat (and thus his ability to fight for positive change in society).

You don't need to be a political professional to decode that 'mystery' and no amount of obfuscation on anyone's part is going to disguise the quite unpleasant motives behind it.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
60. "I don't really care what you think has a place in politics to be honest"
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 12:03 PM
Jul 2017

One wouldn't take the time to respond if that were the case.

Seem to be very personal. I'd rather not get into that as you have.

Have a great weekend.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
63. Very personal. Sorry that's what it's about.
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 12:28 PM
Jul 2017

I didn't realize I was guilty of something.

I really hope you have a great weekend. <- That's an absolute statement.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
190. How do you come to the thought of "so badly"?
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 05:57 AM
Jul 2017

He is more often than not a vote for our side. Far more often than not. I'm good with him in his seat. I would also like to see a Democrat hold the seat. I so badly wish Clinton were President.

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
91. Was he looking out for the most vulnerable of America when he co-wrote and sponsored a bill to dump
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 03:26 PM
Jul 2017

Vermont's nuclear waste in one of the poorest places in America, Sierra Blanca? Talk about vulnerable! they are poor Hispanics, mostly Spanish speaking, and without any power. Easy, easy target.

Senator Paul Wellstone came in defense of the most vulnerable in society:

" This issue I want to address tonight has variously been called
``environmental discrimination,'' ``environmental equity,''
``environmental justice,'' or ``environmental racism.'' These terms are
used interchangeably to describe the well-documented tendency for
pollution and waste dumps to be sited in poor and minority communities
who lack the political power to keep them out."

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CREC-1998-06-15/html/CREC-1998-06-15-pt1-PgS6349.htm

So GMAB. I will never buy that Sanders is some hero of the most vulnerable.

It is a tragedy that Senator Wellstone is not with us anymore. He was a real champion of the poor.

 

Kentonio

(4,377 posts)
94. That's one way to look at it
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 03:44 PM
Jul 2017

My version is rather different, but hey.

I couldn't agree more about Wellstone though.

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,325 posts)
139. Sheila Jackson Lee co sponsored that legislation. Was she trying to kill Brown People too?
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 09:50 PM
Jul 2017

Sometimes legislators get stuck dealing with problems that, if they had their way, wouldn't exist.



You can listen to what he said at the time:






"Let me address it from the perspective of someone who is an opponent of nuclear power, who opposes the construction of power plants and, if he had his way, would shut down the existing nuclear power plants as quickly and as safely as we could.

One of the reasons that many of us oppose nuclear power plants is that when this technology was developed, there was not a lot of thought given as to how we dispose of the nuclear waste. Neither the industry nor the Government, in my view, did the right thing by allowing the construction of the plants and not figuring out how we get rid of the waste.

But the issue we are debating here today is not that issue. The reality, as others have already pointed out, is that the waste is here. We cannot wish it away. It exists in power plants in Maine and Vermont, it exists in hospitals, it is here.

No reputable scientist or environmentalist believes that the geology of Vermont or Maine would be a good place for this waste. In the humid climate of Vermont and Maine, it is more likely that groundwater will come in contact with that waste and carry off radioactive elements to the accessible environment.

There is widespread scientific evidence to suggest, on the other hand, that locations in Texas, some of which receive less than 12 inches of rainfall a year, a region where the groundwater table is more than 700 feet below the surface, is a far better location for this waste.

This is not a political assertion, it is a geological and environmental reality. Furthermore, even if this compact is not approved, it is likely that Texas, which has a great deal of low-level radioactive waste, and we should make the point that 80 percent of the waste is coming from Texas, 10 percent from Vermont, 10 percent from Maine, the reality is that Texas will go forward with or without this compact in building a facility to dispose of their low-level radioactive waste."

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
140. Those pesky facts again.
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 10:05 PM
Jul 2017

Didn't Bill Clinton sign that piece of legislation?

On edit, yes he did:

"Clinton Signs Nuclear-waste-site Legislation

U.S. President Bill Clinton, the weekend of September 19, approved a bill that allows Maine and Vermont to send low-level radioactive waste to a proposed site in Texas near the border with Mexico.

According to the bill, Texas would accept radioactive waste from Vermont and Maine, receiving U.S.$25 million from each. The proposed site also will store nuclear waste from Texas.

The bill signed by the president omitted amendments originally passed by Congress, which would have allowed Texas to exclude additional states from joining the compact.

The Texas/Maine/Vermont Radioactive Waste Dump Compact sanctions Texas officials to start construction procedures. The Texas legislature will vote in January on funding construction.

The site of construction is the town of Sierra Blanc, 30 kilometers from the U.S./Mexico border.

https://www.solidwaste.com/doc/clinton-signs-nuclear-waste-site-legislation-0001

***


Does anyone here really think President Clinton wanted to kill brown people?

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
167. You like pesky facts, huh? Here, I have some for you. But first, let me say this
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 01:54 AM
Jul 2017

You guys never cease to amaze me. You always manage to bring Clinton up, no matter what. Please, stay on subject. This is about St. Bernard of Vermont, superhero of the poor, so don't change the subject. If you want to talk about Clinton, start your own thread.

When someone is accused of something, and their best defense is to say "oh, well, so- and so did the same" It means they are completely lost.

You like peaky facts? let me give you some

===============================

n 1998, then Representative Bernie Sanders cosponsored and actively ushered a bill through Congress that would allow Vermont and Maine to dump their nuclear waste in the poor disadvantaged Hispanic community of Sierra Blanca, Texas.

Three West Texan protestors went to Vermont to plead with then Representative Sanders that the dump site shouldn't be located in this poor minority community, Mr. Sanders told the three activists, "My position is unchanged and you’re not going to like it.” When asked if he would at least visit the proposed site in Sierra Blanca, he said: “Absolutely not. I'm gonna to be running for re-election in the state of Vermont."

“He didn't listen,” Curry said. “He had his mind made up."

============================================


::

Reading this article, I had a real sense that Mr. Sanders just didn't care about their concerns or the plight of this poor Hispanic community. It wasn't his community to care about. If history tells us anything about minority communities they seemingly always get the short end of the stick. Flint, MI is one such community that comes to mind. In this case, the community of Sierra Blanca didn't have any real political clout and they were reaching out to Mr. Sanders for help.

Mr. Sanders could have stood behind this very poor Hispanic community, but as his response to the protestors revealed, he chose the political expedient route. In this case, he didn't stand up for the less fortunate in Sierra Blanca.

Paul Wellstone would later call this injustice against the people of Sierra Blanca a case of "environmental racism”.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/2/8/1481494/-Sierra-Blanca-Bernie-Sanders-Paul-Wellstone-a-Poor-Minority-Community-and-a-Nuclear-Waste-Dump

===========================

In 1994, the states of Texas, Maine, and Vermont entered a compact allowing the disposal of low-level nuclear waste at a proposed Texas site. This creates the tenth such compact in the United States since 1980, when a Federal law was passed requiring states take responsibility for their low-level nuclear waste, urging cooperation. This compact demands both Maine and Vermont to pay Texas $25 million to build a disposal facility. Prior to becoming law, the compact first needed to gain Congressional approval. Following its approval on September 20, 1998, the compact then required the state of Texas to license the project before moving forward. October 22, 1998, Texas officials voted to deny the compact's proposed site located just outside of Sierra Blanca.

Sierra Blanca, a small West Texas town over two-thirds Hispanic, already hosts Merco Joint Venture. This company is the town's largest employer shipping over 400,000 tons of New York City sludge daily to a nearby ranch. Furthermore, Sierra Blanca is located only sixteen miles from the Mexico border, on top of an aquifer, and in an active Earthquake area. Residents, environmentalists, and community groups have made numerous cries of "environmental racism", even filing a suit under Title VI of the 1964 Civil Rights Act. The groups have faced an uphill battle defending the town from becoming a nuclear disposal site. However, while the fight was won in Sierra Blanca, the compact is law and these states will seek an alternative site.

http://www.umich.edu/~snre492/blanca.html

===================================

A factoid one should note here was that at this time, the governor for whom the TLLRWDA was working was none other than George W. Bush. So, despite all that has happened to select the nuclear waste site, what was the course of action taken by Bernie Sanders? He feigned ignorance. Instead of acknowledging the environmental injustice that was going on, he washed his hands clean of any responsibility for that.

But that is not the most egregious and inexcusable aspect of the Sierra Blanca scandal. Rather, it’s what Bernie did after progressive hero Paul Wellstone inserted language into the Senate bill giving the community legal rights to oppose the dump.

Bernie strongly supported stripping out Wellstone’s provisions and returning to the original bill that he co-sponsored (and aggressively promoted) which gave the Sierra Blanca community no rights to fight back.

That’s not a progressive revolution.

That's not even progressive

===============================

2016 presidential candidate U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders has been a proponent, cosponsor and yea voter on Sierra Blanca legislation, H.R. 558, 1995 and H.R.629, 1998.
Sanders wanted all protective amendments stripped from the final bill. These amendments offered protections to the compact by limiting nuclear waste shipments to Texas from Vermont and Maine compact members only (the Doggett amendment) and (Wellstone amendments) for the people of Sierra Blanca which created environmental safeguards and litigation rights, setting a precedent of protections for future cases of toxic and nuclear waste storage in or near communities across America.
The Sierra Blanca waste dump, WCS, was owned by powerful Texas tycoon and corporate raider, Harold Simmons, a GOP mega-donor. Another Simmons company was responsible for the lead poisoning of Cadillac Heights, TX, a low-income black community and other toxic sites costing U.S. tax payers $4.4 billion in multiple Superfund sites. The Man Behind Sierra Blanca’s Woes
Jane O’Meara Sanders, wife of Senator Bernie Sanders, is a commissioner for the nuclear waste waste compact. She is also a commissioner for the Vermont Economic Development Authority.

https://sandersguideblog.wordpress.com/tag/paul-wellstone/

=================================

As Wellstone explained, the fight against the facility was about protecting poor, minority communities across the country from playing host to the toxic waste of more affluent neighbors. At the time that Sierra Blanca was selected for this project, it was one of the poorest towns in Texas: The average income was less than $8,000, and 39 percent of residents lived below the poverty line. The largely Hispanic community was already home to one of the largest sewage treatment facilities in the world, each day bringing a new load of 250 tons of sewage from New York City. Moreover, the town was far from ideal as a storage site: Sierra Blanca sits on a flood plain and is located approximately 30 miles from an earthquake fault line. “For good or ill, we bear moral responsibility for what happens to the people of Sierra Blanca,” Wellstone said at the time. And yet, even as the senator was becoming something of a folk idol to those fighting the project, Wellstone was marked an extremist by his colleagues in Congress.
When the Texas Natural Resources Conservation Commission bowed down to the tremendous popular opposition that had formed around the compact, and voted unanimously in October 1998 to deny the licensing application, Wellstone proclaimed, “Sound science, at least for now, has prevailed over politics of the lowest common denominator. We should remain vigilant to guard against future efforts to site dumps in areas like Sierra Blanca, areas chosen through the path of least political resistance.”
It was a statement that the overwhelming majority of American politicians, however much in agreement, would never have had the courage to utter.

https://middleburycampus.com/2339/opinions/wellstone-and-the-nuclear-question/

=======================================

Mr. WELLSTONE. Mr. President, there is also an obvious concern about
the unsuitability of Sierra Blanca's geology--the exclusionary
criterion from the 1985 Dames & Moore report. Sierra Blanca is situated
right in the middle of the state's only earthquake zone. Its 1993
license application stated that this is ``the most tectonically active
area within the state of Texas.'' In April 1995 there was a 5.6
earthquake 100 miles away, in Alpine, Texas. And there have been two
tremors in the area in the last four years.
Radioactive Waste Management Associates (RWMA) of New York has
conducted an independent investigation of the dump site and found its
geology unsuitable for disposal of radioactive waste. RWMA notes that

research by the Texas Low-Level Radioactive Waste Disposal
Authority has found that [there is] a fault in the bedrock
buried beneath the Sierra Blanca site. Groups of earth
fissures up to seven feet deep occur nearby.

RWMA concludes that

some important natural features of the site--its seismic
hazard, its buried fault, and nearby earth fissures--are not
suited to radioactive waste isolation. In our professional
opinion, these are fatal flaws which mean that the proposed
Sierra Blanca site cannot provide a high degree of assurance
of waste containment.

I ask unanimous consent to enter the letter from RWMA into the
Record.
The concern about the environmental impact of this dump extends well
beyond the border. The Mexican equivalent of the EPA announced its
opposition on March 5 on grounds that the Sierra Blanca dump poses an
environmental risk to the border region. On February 11, the Mexican
Congress, represented by its Permanent Commission, declared

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CREC-1998-06-15/html/CREC-1998-06-15-pt1-PgS6349.htm

=============================

And how did they come to a decision to pick that town? Fighting the passage of bill H.R. 629 in the senate, Senator Paul Wellstone (D-MN) spoke on the matter in great length and detail. In short, it was a case of environmental injustice. Despite the findings of the consultants that Sierra Blanca was not a good site due to its “complex geology” and also a history of earthquakes in the past due to tectonic faults in El Paso and Hudspeth counties, the Waste Authority still went ahead and picked the site because the people living there would be least likely to resist or make a fuss about it, since the majority of the residents are Spanish-speaking and poor. They had tried to pick other locations for the site, but was met with either lawsuit or fierce opposition. So, finally, the Waste Authority just gave up and chose the path of least resistance, procedures and recommendations be damned. Texas legislature also gave a helping hand by passing the Box Law and stripped the rights of the residents in Sierra Blanca from suing. The only recourse they could take was to obtain an injunction from the state Supreme Court, which means they would have to make the 500-mile trip to Austin just to be heard.

A factoid one should note here was that at this time, the governor for whom the TLLRWDA was working was none other than George W. Bush. Oh, and Jane Sanders, Bernie's wife, sits on the Board of this wonderful Texas authority.

http://www.thepeoplesview.net/main/2016/2/17/when-brown-lives-did-not-matter-to-bernie

===========================

Enough facts for you? Sierra Blanca is on an active earthquake line, for heaven's sake!
Don't you think that what Sen. Wellstone did was heroic?














beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
173. Tl; dr
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 02:12 AM
Jul 2017

The bill had 23 cosponsors including Sheila Jackson, Bill Clinton also signed it into law and afaic none of those people is an environmental racist.

Toxic waste has to go somewhere and politicians have to make tough calls. Do I think Sheila, Bernie and Bill wanted to harm poor people? Absolutely not. That's absurd.

Sierra Blanca was used as a dump for toxic sewage sludge for years but I never hear anyone talk about that. I wonder why that is?

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
160. I only posted two links.
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 12:23 AM
Jul 2017

If you're referring to Hassin Bin Sober's post I'm fairly certain house speeches aren't copyrighted.

I could be wrong of course.

If you're referring to my excerpt from the solid waste doc in another post and it really bothers you just pretend that last sentence isn't there.


Oh and you're welcome!

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
164. TOS
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 01:22 AM
Jul 2017

Respect copyrights
Excerpts from copyrighted sources must be no more than four paragraphs and include a link to the source. See our DMCA Copyright Policy for more information.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
163. No, I'm not. TOS:
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 01:21 AM
Jul 2017

Respect copyrights
Excerpts from copyrighted sources must be no more than four paragraphs and include a link to the source. See our DMCA Copyright Policy for more information.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
166. Oh, really? I stand corrected. Then I can post this
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 01:47 AM
Jul 2017

[Congressional Record Volume 144, Number 77 (Monday, June 15, 1998)]
[Senate]
[Pages S6349-S6356]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]




THE TEXAS-MAINE-VERMONT COMPACT

Mr. WELLSTONE. Mr. President, I would like to speak out this evening
about an enormously important issue that has seldom, if ever, been
addressed on the floor of the United States Senate. I understand my
colleague needs to leave at 7, and I am going to try to figure out a
way to accommodate him if at all possible. My understanding is, I will
also have a chance to speak more about this in morning business.
This issue I want to address tonight has variously been called
``environmental discrimination,'' ``environmental equity,''
``environmental justice,'' or ``environmental racism.'' These terms are
used interchangeably to describe the well-documented tendency for
pollution and waste dumps to be sited in poor and minority communities
who lack the political power to keep them out.
Environmental justice has been at the center of the debate over H.R.
629, legislation granting congressional consent to the so-called Texas
Compact. If passed unamended by this Congress, the Texas Compact would
result in the dumping of low-level radioactive waste from nuclear
reactors in Texas, Maine, and Vermont--and potentially from nuclear
reactors all over the country--in the poor and majority-Latino town of
Sierra Blanca in West Texas.
Environmental justice is an issue that demands the full attention of
the Senate. If we pass this legislation unamended, we can no loner
pretend to be innocent bystanders as one poor, minority community after
another is victimized by political powerlessness--and, in some cases,
by overt racism. We can no longer pretend that a remedy for this basic
violation of civil rights is beyond our reach. That is the ultimate
significance of this legislation--and of this debate.
The moral responsibility of the Senate is unavoidable and undeniable.
If we approve H.R. 629 without conditions, the Compact dump will be
built within a few miles of Sierra Blanca. There's really very little
doubt about that. And if that happens, this poor Hispanic community
could become the premier national repository for so-called ``low-
level'' radioactive waste.
If we reject this Compact, on the other hand, the Sierra Blanca dump
will not be built at all. The Texas Governor has said so publicly--more
than once. It's as simple as that. The fate of Sierra Blanca rests in
our hands.
Compact supporters would prefer that we consider the Compact without
any reference to the actual location of the dump. But that simply
cannot be done. It's true that H.R. 629 says nothing about Sierra
Blanca. But we know very well where this waste will be dumped. In that
respect, the Texas Compact is different from other compacts the Senate
has considered.
The Texas legislature in 1991 already identified the area where the
dump will be located. The Texas Waste Authority designated the site
near Sierra Blanca in 1992. A draft license was issued in 1996. License
proceedings are now in their final stages and should be completed by
summer. Nobody doubts that the Texas authorities will soon issue that
license.
There's only one reason why this dump might not get built--and that's
if Congress rejects the Texas Compact. In an April 1998 interview,
Texas Gov. George Bush said, ``If that does not happen,'' meaning
congressional passage of the Compact, ``then all bets are off.'' In the
El Paso Times of May 28, Gov. Bush said, ``If there's not a Compact in
place, we will not move forward.''
For these reasons, we cannot fairly consider H.R. 629 without also
considering the dump site that Texas has selected. Sierra Blanca is a
small town in one of poorest parts of Texas, an area with one of the
highest percentages of Latino residents. The average income of people
who live there is less than $8,000. Thirty-nine percent live below the
poverty line. Over 66 percent are Latino, and many of them speak only
Spanish.
It is a town that has already been saddled with one of the largest
sewage sludge projects in the world. Every week Sierra Blanca receives
250 tons of partially treated sewage sludge from across the country.
Depending on what action Congress decides to take, this small town with
minimal political clout may also become the national repository for
low-level radioactive waste. And I understand plans for building even
more dump sites are also in the works.
Supporters of the Compact would have us believe that the designation
of Sierra Blanca had nothing to do with the income or ethnic
characteristics of its residents. That it had nothing to do with the
high percentage of Latinos in Sierra Blanca and the surrounding
Hudspeth County--at least 2.6 times higher than the State average. That
the percentage of people living in poverty--at least 2.1 times higher
than the State average--was completely irrelevant.
They would have us believe that Sierra Blanca was simply the
unfortunate finalist in a rigorous and deliberate screening process
that fairly considered potential sites from all over the State. That
the outcome was based on science and objective criteria. I don't
believe any of this is true.
I am not saying science played no role whatsoever in the process. It
did. Indeed, based on the initial criteria coupled with the scientific
findings, Sierra Blanca was disqualified as a potential dump site. It
wasn't until politics entered the picture that Sierra Blanca was even
considered.
I think it is worth taking a moment to review how we got to where we
are today. The selection criteria for the dump were established in
1981, and the Texas Waste Authority hired engineering consultants to
screen the entire state for suitable sites.
In March 1985, consultants Dames & Moore delivered their report to
the Authority. Using ``exclusionary'' criteria established by the
Authority, Dames & Moore ruled out Sierra Blanca and the surrounding
area, due primarily to its complex geology.
Let me quote from that report. Features ``applied as exclusionary as
related to the Authority's Siting Criteria'' included ``the clearly
exclusionary features of: complex geology; tectonic fault zones,'' et
cetera. ``The application of exclusionary geological criteria has had a
substantial impact'' in screening potential sites, the report observed.
In its final composite, the report explained, ``Complex geology and
mountainous areas in West, West-Central, and the Panhandle of Texas
were excluded,'' including the Sierra Blanca dump site.
The report also fund, ``Many tectonic faults occur in West Texas
within massive blocks of mountain ranges. This area includes El Paso
[and] Hudspeth'' counties ``and has undergone several phases or
episodes of tectonic disturbance.''
Finally, it went on to observe that, ``Although not excluded, the
remainder of Hudspeth Country does not appear to offer good siting
potential.''
So much for the science. Repeatedly since the early 1980s, the Waste
Authority has come back again and again to this politically powerless
area. It has designated four potential sites in all, and--with one
revealing exception--all of them were in Hudspeth County. There are
only three communities in the entire County, all of them poor and
heavily Latino, and all of them targeted by the Authority.
A 1984 public opinion survey commissioned by the Texas Waste
Authority provides some useful context for the Authority's site
selection process. The report, called ``An Analysis of Public Opinion
on Low-Level Radioactive Waste Disposal in Selected Areas,'' noted the
benefits of keeping Latinos uninformed.
The report states, ``One population that may benefit from [a public
information] campaign is Hispanics, particularly those with little
formal education and low-incomes. The Authority should be aware,
however, that increasing the level of knowledge of Hispanics may simply
increase opposition to the [radioactive dump] site, inasmuch as we have
discovered a strong relationship in the total sample between increased
perceived knowledge and increased opposition.''
The first site to be targeted was Dell City in Hudspeth County. The
El Paso Herald-Post of March 6, 1984 recounts the controversy over that
site selection. ``The [Texas Waste] Authority has set up certain
criteria as guidelines for choosing a disposal site. It appears

[[Page S6350]]

to be ignoring its own rules.'' ``The Authority, instead of abiding by
its written criteria, has set up an unspoken, alternate rule for
locating the site. That is, `The site shall be located where there are
the fewest possible number of registered voters to protest.''' A
disproportionately high number of Latinos in Hudspeth County are not
registered to vote.
The Herald-Post goes on to describe some of the political maneuvering
behind the initial selection of Hudspeth County. ``The plot thickens.
The University of Texas system owns 500,000 acres of land around Dell
City. Mrs. Dolph Briscoe, wife of the former governor, sits on the
system's Board of Regents. Briscoe has extensive land holdings close to
the other proposed site. So at a public meeting on October 25, 1983, in
Dimmit County, Briscoe said he was encouraging the Authority to locate
the site `on state lands in Hudspeth County.' '' The editorialists at
the Herald-Post conclude, ``We haven't exactly got any heavyweights
defending our interests in this matter.''
The one exception to the Authority's pattern of targeting the poor
Latino communities in Hudspeth County was in 1985, after completion of
the engineering consultants' report. Dames & Moore concluded that the
``best'' sites were in McMullen and Dimmit Counties, and the Waste
Authority settled on a site in McMullen County. But this decision met
with fierce opposition from politically powerful individuals. So the
Authority decided once again to move the dump back to Hudspeth County.

At this point all pretense of objectivity was abandoned. The
selection criteria were changed in 1985 so as to rule out the two
``best'' sites identified by Dames & Moore. The new criteria gave
preference to sites located on state-owned land. This change had the
effect of virtually guaranteeing selection of a site somewhere in
Hudspeth County, large portions of which are owned by the state of
Texas.
So the Waste Authority proceeded to designate, based on an informal
and cursory process, five sites in Hudspeth County. Its clear choice,
however, was Fort Hancock, one of the County's three poor Latino
communities.
Unfortunately for the Authority, the more politically powerful city
of El Paso next door decided to fight back. Together with Hudspeth
County, El Paso filed suit against the site selection. They argued that
the Hancock site was located in an area of complex geology--much like
Sierra Blanca, incidentally--and lay on a 100-year flood plain. The
amazing thing is that they won. In 1991 U.S. District Court Judge Moody
ruled in their favor and ordered no dump could be built in Fort
Hancock, Hudspeth County.
But the county's court victory was short-lived. The Waste Authority
was clearly not about to give up. The Authority went back to the state
legislature to get around Judge Moody's decision by once again changing
the rules. A legislator from Houston, far to the East where the big
utilities are based, proposed a bill that ignored all previous
selection criteria and designated Fort Hancock once and for all.
Interestingly enough, this maneuver aroused a great deal of public
indignation, precisely because of the Authority's perceived
discriminatory practice of dumping on Latino communities.
There was an impressive show of force against discrimination, but the
outcome was not exactly what Hudspeth County had in mind. After Judge
Moody's remarkable decision, lawyers for El Paso and the Waste
Authority worked out a compromise. Fort Hancock would be saved, but a
400 square mile area further north in Hudspeth County would take its
place. This oblong rectangle imposed on the map--an area that included
Sierra Blanca--was subsequently dubbed ``The Box.'' The Texas
legislature passed the so-called ``Box Law'' by voice vote only days
before the end of session in May 1991.
Once again, the previous site selection procedures were stripped
away. The Box Law repealed the requirement that the dump had to be on
public land, the very requirement that has pointed the Authority
towards Hudspeth County in the first place. This was necessary because,
at that time, the Sierra Blanca site was not public land at all.
Most importantly, to prevent another troublesome lawsuit like the
Fort Hancock debacle, the Box Law essentially stripped local citizens
of the right to sue. It denied them all judicial relief other than an
injunction by the Texas Supreme Court itself, and for this unlikely
prospect citizens would be required to drive 500 miles to Austin.
This story is depressingly familiar. A similar scenario unfolds over
and over again in different parts of the country, with different names
and faces in every situation. Sometimes there is no intention by anyone
to discriminate. But pervasive inequalities of race, income, and access
to the levers of political power exercise a controlling influence over
the siting of undesirable waste dumps.
The people who make these decisions sometimes are only following the
path of least resistance, but in far too many instances the result is a
targeting of poor, politically marginalized minority communities who
lack the political muscle to do anything about it.
The remarkable thing about this story is that some people in Hudspeth
County did fight back. Dell City fought back and won in the early
1980s. Fort Hancock fought back and won their court case in 1991. And
make no mistake, the people of Sierra Blanca are fighting back, too.
Many of them have been here on the Hill. Father Ralph Solis, the
parish priest for Sierra Blanca and Hudspeth County, was here in
February, and visited many Senate offices. These people know that the
odds are stacked against them, but they are persevering just the same.
One of the amendments I included in this bill is intended to give
them a fighting chance. It gives them their day in court--the right to
challenge this site selection on grounds of environmental justice. It
says that the Compact cannot be implemented in any way--and that would
include the siting process, the licensing process, or the shipment of
waste to that site--that discriminates against communities because of
their race, national origin, or income level.
If local residents can prove discrimination in court, then they can
stop the Compact Commission from operating the dump. They don't have to
prove intent, by the way, although that certainly would be sufficient.
All they have to show is disparate treatment or disparate impact.
I believe very strongly that the Compact raises important and
troubling issues of ``environmental justice.'' And a diverse array of
civic organizations agree with me about this.
The Leadership Council on Civil Rights, the Texas NAACP, the Sierra
Club, the League of United Latin American Citizens (or ``LULAC''),
Greenpeace, the Bishop and the Catholic Diocese of El Paso, the House
Hispanic Caucus, the United Methodist Church General Board of Church
and Society, Friends of the Earth, Physicians for Social
Responsibility, the Southwest Network for Environmental and Economic
Justice, and the National Audubon Society, to name just a few, agree
with me. I ask unanimous consent that a letter signed by these and
other organizations be printed in the Record at the end of my
statement.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, it is so ordered.
(See exhibit 1.)
Mr. WELLSTONE. Mr. President, I know some of my colleagues don't
believe issues of environmental justice are implicated here. Or they
may think this is not a question for the Senate to decide. I believe
this amendment meets those concerns. All my amendment does is give
local residents the right to make their case in court. There is no
guarantee they will win. After all, it is extremely difficult to prove
environmental discrimination. I don't see how anyone would want to deny
these people a chance to make their case.
Short of defeating the bill outright, I believe passing this
amendment is the only way for us to do right by the people of Sierra
Blanca.
Yet, as amazing as it sounds, Compact proponents also claim to have
the best interests of Sierra Blanca at heart. They claim the Compact
will protect local residents because it keeps out waste from states
other than Maine and Vermont. They have used this argument again and
again, in Sierra Blanca, in the Texas legislature,

[[Page S6351]]

in the House of Representatives, and they're using it again in the
United States Senate.
Supporters of the Compact are trying to have it both ways. When
challenged about the environmental justice of targeting Sierra Blanca,
they respond that no site has been selected, and environmental justice
can only be addressed if and when that ever happens.
Then in the same breath they insist that the dump in Sierra Blanca is
definitely going forward and the Compact is therefore necessary to
protect local residents from outside waste. So which is it? Either the
Sierra Blanca dump is a done deal or it's not.
The truth is, the most likely scenario is that the dump will be built
in Sierra Blanca if Congress approves this Compact, subject to any
legal challenges, but the project will not go forward if Congress
rejects the Compact.
The claim that the Compact will protect Sierra Blanca makes no sense
on its face. The dump is unlikely to be built without congressional
consent to this Compact; it does not need to be built; and the Compact
would not protect Sierra Blanca in any event.
The simple fact of the matter is that the dump will most likely not
be if the Compact fails. Governor Bush has made it very clear that the
dump will not be built if Congress rejects the Compact. So the argument
that Sierra Blanca needs the Compact for protection against outside
waste is nonsensical. If Texas does not build a dump in Sierra Blanca,
local citizens do not need to be protected from anything. Far from
protecting Sierra Blanca, the Compact only ensures that a dump will be
built in their community.
An article from the Texas Observer of last March explains why the
Compact is necessary for the dump to go forward. ``Texas generates
nowhere near enough waste on its own to fill a three million cubic feet
dump, and by its own projections [the Texas Waste Authority] could not
survive without Maine and Vermont's waste.''
Moreover, the Texas legislature has indicated it will not appropriate
funding to build the dump if Congress rejects this Compact. Texas
lawmakers refused the Waste Authority's request for $37 million for
construction money in FY 1998 and FY 1999. In fact, the Texas House
initially zeroed out all funding for the Authority, but funding for
licensing was later restored in conference committee. My understanding
is that construction funding was made contingent on passage of the
Compact, whereupon Maine and Vermont will each be required to pay Texas
over $25 million.

In fact, the Sierra Blanca dump does not really need to be built. You
might have seen the headline in the New York Times on December 7 of
last year: ``Warning of Excess Capacity in Nation's Nuclear Dumps--New
Technology and Recycling Sharply Reduce the Volume of Nuclear Waste.''
The article discusses a study by Dr. Gregory Hayden, the Nebraska
Commissioner for the Central Interstate Compact Commission. Dr. Hayden
found that ``there is currently an excess capacity for low-level
radioactive waste disposal in the United States without any change to
current law or practice.''
He went on to explain, ``These disposal sites have had low
utilization due to falling volumes since 1980. Thus, a high capacity
remains for the future, without any change to the current configuration
of which states may ship to which disposal site.'' Let me repeat the
essential point: there is no compelling need for any new low-level
radioactive waste dumps in this country. And if no new dump is built,
nobody can argue that the Compact is needed to protect Sierra Blanca.
The most popular argument for building another dump involves disposal
of medical waste. I'm sure all of you have heard it. It's claimed that
waste from medical facilities and research labs is getting backed up--
that it has to go somewhere.
But let me emphasize one central and indisputable fact: over the last
few years, over 99 percent of the waste from Maine and Vermont has come
from nuclear reactors. Less than one percent has been from hospitals
and universities. And from all three states, 94 percent of the low-
level waste between 1991 and 1994 came from reactors. This dump is
being built--first and foremost--to dispose of radioactive waste from
nuclear reactors, not from hospitals.
So why are the nuclear utilities hiding behind hospitals and
universities? It's not very hard to figure out. In 1984 the Texas Waste
Authority hired a public relations firm to increase the popularity of
nuclear waste. The PR firm recommended, ``A more positive view of safe
disposal technologies should be engendered by the use of medical
doctors and university faculty scientists as public spokesmen for the
[Texas Waste] Authority.'' ``Whenever possible,'' the report said,
``the Authority should speak through these parties.''
Well, that advice has been followed to the letter. We all have
sympathies for hospital work and university research. I know I do. But
that's beside the point. This controversy is really about waste from
nuclear reactors.
If a dump is built nevertheless, the Compact offers little protection
for local residents. The Compact Commission would be able to accept
low-level radioactive waste from any person, state, regional body, or
group of states. All it would take is a majority vote of the
Commissioners, who are appointed by the Compact state governors.
Why should the people of Sierra Blanca expect unelected commissioners
to keep waste out of their community? Is there anything in their recent
experience that would justify such faith?
The fact is, the state will have every economic incentive to bring in
more waste. The November 1997 report by Dr. Hayden concluded that ``the
small volume of waste available for any new site would not allow the
facility to take advantage of economies of scale. Thus, it would not
even be able to operate at the low-cost portion of its own cost
functions.''
The new dump will need high volume to stay profitable. The Texas
Observer reports, ``A 1994 analysis by the Houston Business Journal
suggests that the Authority would open the facility to other states to
keep it viable.''
We have here the potential for establishing a new national repository
for low-level nuclear waste. Not only will Texas have an incentive to
bring in as much waste as possible, but the same will be true of
nuclear utilities. The more waste goes to Sierra Blanca, the less they
will be charged for disposal.
Rick Jacobi, General Manager of the Texas Waste Authority, told the
Houston Business Journal: ``The site is designed for 100,000 cubic feet
per year, which would be about $160 per cubic foot. But if only 60,000
cubic feet per year of waste arrives, the price would be $250 per cubic
foot.'' That's a big difference.
As Molly Ivins says, ``That sure would drive up costs for Houston
Lighting and Power and Texas Utilities.'' And the going rate at one
existing dump is a whopping $450 per cubic foot. In the end, it will be
in the economic interest of everyone--from the nuclear utilities to the
Waste Authority--to ship as much waste to Sierra Blanca as they can.
My second amendment addresses this problem. Throughout the process of
approving the Compact, supporters claimed the waste would be limited to
three states. I want to hold them to that promise. My amendment puts
that promise in writing.
I doubt anyone would disagree that this understanding was shared by
everyone who participated in the Compact debate. If Compact supporters
truly plan to limit waste to three states, which has been everyone's
understanding all along, they can have no objection to my amendment.
It's nothing but a protection clause. A nearly identical amendment--
called the Doggett Amendment--was attached to the bill passed by the
House.
There are other issues I was not able to address with amendments. I
think there is a fundamental concern about whether this kind of
disposal is safe at all. The League of Conservation Voters (LCV) warns
that, despite the hazards involved, waste will be buried in
soil trenches destined to leak, as have nuclear dumps in Kentucky,
Illinois; and Nevada. LCV did score the House vote on final passage,
and has announced that it may score Senate votes as well. I ask
unanimous consent to place the LCV letter in the Record.

Much more at link: https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CREC-1998-06-15/html/CREC-1998-06-15-pt1-PgS6349.htm

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
171. This is about Sanders. Don't deflect.
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 02:06 AM
Jul 2017

And don't ypu think that Sen Wellston actions were heroic? Did you read his speech?

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,325 posts)
175. No, this is about a bipartisan piece of legislation attempting to deal, in a sensible way, with a...
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 02:15 AM
Jul 2017

.... sucky problem that neither Sanders, The Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee or President Bill Clinton were responsible for causing. But as some of, not all, the adults in the room, they were tasked with handling.

It's not deflecting. It's showing that good people with good intentions had a different opinion. Not to mention the science on their side.

If you want to get bent out of shape over some 20 year old piece of legislation, have at it.


No. I didn't read it. Tl;dr. Remember?

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
176. Bent out of shape over some 20 year old legislation? Seriously?
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 02:29 AM
Jul 2017

This is relevant TODAY because Sanders portrays himself as an environmental champion, so reviewing his history on that is fair game.

Science on their side? Sierra Blanca is on an active earthquake line!

You should have read Sen Wellstone's case against dumping toxic waste i in Sierra Blanca. Maybe you can read this:


Mr. WELLSTONE. Mr. President, there is also an obvious concern about
the unsuitability of Sierra Blanca's geology--the exclusionary
criterion from the 1985 Dames & Moore report. Sierra Blanca is situated
right in the middle of the state's only earthquake zone. Its 1993
license application stated that this is ``the most tectonically active
area within the state of Texas.'' In April 1995 there was a 5.6
earthquake 100 miles away, in Alpine, Texas. And there have been two
tremors in the area in the last four years.
Radioactive Waste Management Associates (RWMA) of New York has
conducted an independent investigation of the dump site and found its
geology unsuitable for disposal of radioactive waste. RWMA notes that

research by the Texas Low-Level Radioactive Waste Disposal
Authority has found that [there is] a fault in the bedrock
buried beneath the Sierra Blanca site. Groups of earth
fissures up to seven feet deep occur nearby.

RWMA concludes that

some important natural features of the site--its seismic
hazard, its buried fault, and nearby earth fissures--are not
suited to radioactive waste isolation. In our professional
opinion, these are fatal flaws which mean that the proposed
Sierra Blanca site cannot provide a high degree of assurance
of waste containment.

I ask unanimous consent to enter the letter from RWMA into the
Record.
The concern about the environmental impact of this dump extends well
beyond the border. The Mexican equivalent of the EPA announced its
opposition on March 5 on grounds that the Sierra Blanca dump poses an
environmental risk to the border region. On February 11, the Mexican
Congress, represented by its Permanent Commission, declared that the project
in Sierra Blanca in Texas, and all such
dumping projects along the border with Mexico, constitute an
aggression against national dignity.

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CREC-1998-06-15/html/CREC-1998-06-15-pt1-PgS6349.htm

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
203. Sigh. Please read
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 04:39 PM
Jul 2017

"Radioactive Waste Management Associates (RWMA) of New York has
conducted an independent investigation of the dump site and found its
geology unsuitable for disposal of radioactive waste. RWMA notes that

research by the Texas Low-Level Radioactive Waste Disposal
Authority has found that a fault in the bedrock
buried beneath the Sierra Blanca site. Groups of earth
fissures up to seven feet deep occur nearby.

RWMA concludes that

some important natural features of the site--its seismic
hazard, its buried fault, and nearby earth fissures--are not
suited to radioactive waste isolation. In our professional
opinion, these are fatal flaws which mean that the proposed
Sierra Blanca site cannot provide a high degree of assurance
of waste containment."

====================

See? Also Sierra Blenca is prone to flooding.

But really, the fact that the PEOPLE of Sierra Blanca didn't want tho have Vermont's nuclear dump on their land should have been enough.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
178. I don't understand the need to vilify one person for this legislation.
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 02:37 AM
Jul 2017

Heroes and villains?

What's that about?

Are we discussing a super hero movie or Congress?

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
177. Nope, I heard it years ago.
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 02:30 AM
Jul 2017

He was passionate but so are all of our progressive firebrands.

The president signed the bill anyway and I don't fault him, or the others who cosponsored it, or the 27 Democratic senators and 107 congressmen who voted for it. It was a tough decision for all involved so I'm not going to rake anyone over the coals over it. I accept the reasoning given by those who supported the bill.

It seems silly to try to place the blame on one politician and declare another a 'hero' when so many of their colleagues sided with the former. Are all of the Democrats who voted for it villains too or is it just one man who's solely responsible for the bill?

Congress isn’t made up of heroes and villains - at least on our side of the aisle, that's a little too simplistic for me.

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
168. Thanks, but that's irrelevant. None of those people ran or are currently planning to run for POTUS
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 01:57 AM
Jul 2017

this is about sanders. You are just trying to sidetrack here

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
204. The post didn't include any link. So, if I asked for a link it goes without saying that
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 04:42 PM
Jul 2017

I'm asking for the link about the contest of the post.

Where did I mention sponsors or anything of the kind? You got that out of thin air

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
205. Your post simply said: "link?" so I provided you with a link to both the claim and the speech.
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 04:56 PM
Jul 2017

Those were two separate things: HBS' post included a fact (Sheila was a cosponsor) and a speech (from Bernie), but you only asked for *A* link. How was I supposed to know which one you wanted to independently verify, the cosponsor or the speech?

If you were specifically requesting a link for only ONE part of the post you should have said so, I was unsure which of the two you were unable to find on your own so I was nice enough to oblige you by providing links to BOTH the cosponsors and the speech.

It can't "go without saying" if you're not specific, if you wanted it to "go without saying" you should have been clearer which part you were questioning.

Now we're done quibbling over how I was supposed to know which link you wanted when you didn't specify.

And again, you're welcome.


beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
208. I don't know how else to explain this. You didn't specify which link you wanted.
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 07:25 PM
Jul 2017

Let's try to simplify it a bit.

Poster A (HBS) posted:

Item 1 : a fact about cosponsors

Item 2: an excerpt from a speech


Poster B (you) asked for a "link" (singular)


Poster C (me) - not knowing whether Poster B (you) wanted a link to Item 1 or Item 2 helpfully posted links to verify both.

There were two separate things that could have required links to verify, you didn't specify which one you needed so I gave you both. If you had said "link to Bernie's speech?" I would have known that's the only one you wanted.


Does that help clear things up? If not I'm at a loss how to explain it. But I'm happy to keep kicking this thread about Svitavsky's use of bigoted slurs since I think it's important to vet potential candidates.




 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
183. You're making it sound like Bernie is to blame for the whole thing.
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 02:48 AM
Jul 2017

Last edited Sun Jul 16, 2017, 02:09 PM - Edit history (1)

If Clinton signed it, why are you still going after Bernie over it? It's not as though Bernie could ever have stopped it.

And Bernie won't run again in 2020, so there is no good reason to still be in all-out hostility mode towards the guy.

(Edited to reflect that I was mistaken as to who signed the bill. Thanks to Hassan Bin Sober for giving me the heads-up on that.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
185. But everything is his fault. Just ask Jon Svitavsky.
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 03:00 AM
Jul 2017

Global warming? Thanks, Bernie!

Lincoln getting shot?

Bernie again.

If the barista makes my latte wrong tomorrow morning?



beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
212. He's WORSE than Kahn.
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 08:22 PM
Jul 2017

Kahn learned how to be an evil mastermind by studying Bernie, without that inspiration Kahn never would have been able to persevere for as long as he did.

I'm just making stuff up now, it seems to be in vogue and it's fun to create alternate reality.

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
202. There is no way he could have stopped it? He fought hard for it. He even
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 04:06 PM
Jul 2017

voted to strip out the Wellstone amendment. The Wellstone amendment would have given legal recourse to this poor Latino community to fight the placement of the waste dump if they could prove environmental racism. The compact was passed, with vigorous help from Sanders. So he was completely for it.

And Ken, I disagree with you on that Sanders is not planning to run again. I see the writing on the wall. He may even be thinking about running as an independent, and that's why he keeps trashing Democrats. And the hostility will continue as long as he keeps trashing Dems

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
62. That would be nice, wouldn't it?
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 12:10 PM
Jul 2017

I'm all in favor of having as many Democrats in the Senate as possible.



 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
64. Amazing to see who is getting upset at the concept...
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 12:33 PM
Jul 2017

Of a robust primary process. And upset is the correct word. Many are resorting to personal attacks.

white_wolf

(6,238 posts)
81. No, we're upset to see DUers cheering an open bigot.
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 02:53 PM
Jul 2017

You can read the article for yourself and see proof that this man is a racist and homophobic bigot yet many DUers seem to support him. It's disgusting and support for such people deserves nothing, but scorn.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
85. That's what I mean.
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 03:05 PM
Jul 2017

You say you are upset at seeing duers cheering an open bigot. I have done no such thing nor do I see many duers cheering an open bigot.

Additionally, some might not want to get to upset as the person they cheer for may have delved into one or more of the "ism's" in his past.

At no point did I cheer this guy.

white_wolf

(6,238 posts)
87. Many DUers are. I've seen plenty of people express hope this guy beats Sanders.
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 03:13 PM
Jul 2017

I can't tell if its blind party loyalty or sour grapes over Sanders running against Clinton.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
88. Exactly.
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 03:15 PM
Jul 2017

And when we criticized this racist homophobe last week we were called bigots and liars, accused of having trouble with reading comprehension, of misrepresenting his posts by "editing, truncating and taking them deliberately out of context" and also waging an "internet smear campaign" against a good Democrat.

The only people personally attacked were the ones who told the truth about Svitavsky.

white_wolf

(6,238 posts)
90. What I don't understand is this...
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 03:24 PM
Jul 2017

One of the biggest reasons some people are opposed to Sanders is because they don't think he places enough emphasis on issues of racism, sexism, and homophobia. As a gay man, I'll admit that I think Sanders could do better in those areas and if that is one of the reasons people supported Clinton then I have no problem with that.

What I do have a problem is, is seeing DUers cheer this man who is an open bigot. It's becoming clear that their opposition to Sanders has less to do with his support for the rights of minorities(which in my view is an issue of communication) and more to do with the letter beside his name.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
93. I think it's more about sour grapes than anything else.
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 03:39 PM
Jul 2017

I knew this article wouldn't change their minds about Svitavsky but at least it vindicated those of us who told the truth about him last week.

I agree with everything else you wrote, especially the part about communication.

white_wolf

(6,238 posts)
80. So you'd rather have a homophobic bigot in office merely because he's on your team?
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 02:51 PM
Jul 2017

I've said it before and I'll say it again. There are some people on this forum who would support Genghis Khan in this seat so long as he made sure there was a D next to his name. I can't believe there are self-professed liberals and progressives supporting someone who is an open bigot, but I guess party does matter more than principles to some.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
83. LOL! What I actually said: "I'm all in favor of having as many Democrats in the Senate as possible."
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 02:59 PM
Jul 2017

I'm a Democrat. I prefer Democrats. How can anyone object to that?

white_wolf

(6,238 posts)
84. The implications of your post were clear.
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 03:02 PM
Jul 2017

I'm a Democratic Socialist. I'd prefer the House and Senate be made up of Democratic Socialists. We don't have any of those so, for the most part, the Democratic Party will get my full support. But, I refuse to support an open bigot solely because he's a Democrat. I find it especially strange that so many people who are opposed to Sanders have no problem with Joe Manchin. After all, Sanders caucuses with the Democrats and votes with them about 20% more than Manchin.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
135. LOL!
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 09:11 PM
Jul 2017

==========================
"84. The implications of your post were clear."
==========================
You can either take me at my word, or not. You're free to interpret my post in any way you wish... even if it's imaginative and incorrect.


 

Heaven Sent

(39 posts)
101. Right. Party over principles are Republican-like behavior
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 06:24 PM
Jul 2017

Leave that garbage to the Republicans.

I'd rather vote on issues that are near and dear to my heart that I can agree with about 70% of the time.

When I took that match-me-with-President-candidate of my choice, it was like something around 84% Bernie, and 54% Clinton. I took a closer look, and found out that Bernie represents me better than Clinton would have. Even right now, people are pushing party over principles on the Democratic side. The Democrats hasn't even provided issues that we can be solid about, even if the platform was adopted.

I refuse to say anything bad about the Democrats, but it does make me wonder about the Democratic Party as whole. I'd rather vote on issues I care about that the candidate can fight about.

Even if it is a losing candidate.

aikoaiko

(34,169 posts)
73. Do you really think it is money that will keep Bernie in his seat and...
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 02:02 PM
Jul 2017

...and not his very consistent liberal/progressive political record?

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
74. I think it's a combination of both.
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 02:05 PM
Jul 2017

I've never heard someone argue against the difficulty of unseating a career politician with deep pockets.

MineralMan

(146,286 posts)
54. That challenger hasn't a prayer of beating Senator Sanders
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 10:42 AM
Jul 2017

in a primary. Not a prayer. He's not really worthy of anyone's notice, frankly.

 

VermontKevin

(1,473 posts)
56. Nobody here is paying attention to them. The woman who has announced
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 11:05 AM
Jul 2017

Adeluola, doesn't seem to live here.

A lot of folks think a challenger is a great idea, but so far no one is really up to the task.

Another thread suggested Dean. I don't think that will happen.

George II

(67,782 posts)
78. We don't know for sure that he said that, do we Beam?
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 02:39 PM
Jul 2017

But if he did say that, it would have been despicable.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
79. Actually we do, George, since it's still on Facebook. You've seen it yourself, remember?
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 02:46 PM
Jul 2017

From the article

“So if a lady boy in high school, wants to shower with the girls, we’ll just take his word for it??” Svitavksy wrote in the “Chicago Style Politics” Facebook group on May 13, 2016. The post was accompanied by a link to an article about President Barack Obama’s administration’s move to allow transgender students to use the bathrooms that align with their gender identities in public schools."

Here's the link again in case you forgot:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/163484380439467?view=permalink&id=948275568627007

Rob H.

(5,351 posts)
99. It's amazing that people are *still* playing dumb about this guy
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 06:07 PM
Jul 2017

and trying to claim he never posted things that he clearly posted. They're *still* supporting a racist transphobe. smh

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
102. Isn't it?
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 06:29 PM
Jul 2017

There's only one Jon Svitavsky on Facebook, he's had the account for years, his account profile matches the info on the 'Svitavsky for U.S. Senate' account and his friend list includes the candidate's wife and other relatives, he's also posted in the group 'Chicago Style Politics' for years and his posts can easily be found using Facebook's simple search feature.

But his supporters want us to believe the post shown in Raw Story's article and others like it are the work of some nefarious imposter? How would that even be possible?




Rob H.

(5,351 posts)
124. ***Breaking*** FBI releases photo of suspected time-traveling hacker and accomplice
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 08:34 PM
Jul 2017


They have been identified as Martin Seamus "Marty" McFly (above, right) and Dr. Emmett Lathrop "Doc" Brown (left).

McFly was born June 12, 1968, but can appear much younger due to temporal displacement. Other known aliases for McFly include "Clint Eastwood," "Calvin Klein," and "Darth Vader, an extraterrestrial from the Planet Vulcan."

Not much is known of reclusive inventor, Dr. Brown. He is also suspected of receiving plutonium from Libyan terrorists in 1985; the whereabouts of the stolen material is currently unknown.

Anyone who encounters either suspect is advised to call the dedicated FBI hotline at 1-888-HELLO-MCFLY immediately.

###

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
126. THAT EXPLAINS EVERYTHING!
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 08:41 PM
Jul 2017

OMG it's so OBVIOUS!

Alex Jones predicted this but I naively dismissed him as another paranoid conspiracist trying to defend a fellow crank.

I should have believed them when they said Jon was framed, when will I ever learn to trust the right people on the internet ?

Bad me!

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
107. Except the post is clearly from Jon Svitavsky's account.
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 07:02 PM
Jul 2017

Everyone can click on the link and see for themselves. You seem to be the only person who doubts that's the real Jon Svitavsky for some strange reason.

Did Satan or a homophobic alien take over Jon's body at the time and post that on facebook using his account? Well that would certainly back up your suspicions but what are the chances of that actually being the case? I don't know any homophobic aliens and I've never seen any evidence that Satan exists.

Did a Bernie supporter or Bernie himself steal the Tardis, travel back in time and make that post from Jon's computer when Jon wasn't looking? Of course nothing is impossible and that would definitely let your candidate off the hook.

But if either of those things happened why hasn't Jon accused the perpetrator? He's been asked about the post several times and he's not denying it's his.

If I were running for Senate and someone traveled back in time, took over my account and posted bigoted statements on social media I would explain what happened to the press when asked about it.

So unless Jon says he was framed we have to logically conclude those posts were not the work of an imposter and were made by Jon Svitavsky.

George II

(67,782 posts)
111. There are some very talented and sophisticated hackers out there. Until he's actually interviewed..
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 07:27 PM
Jul 2017

...and asked about this and other things that he presumably said, I'll withhold judgement.

Interesting that it didn't take long for Mr. Svitavsky to be doxxed, isn't it?

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
112. So sophisticated they can time travel? I had no idea hackers had that kind of technology.
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 07:30 PM
Jul 2017

Very impressive.

Maybe the Trump family and their cabal can use that as an excuse too.

BREAKING: LAWYERS SAY THEY WERE FRAMED! IT WAS TIME TRAVELING HACKERS HIRED BY DEMOCRATS!


Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
117. Couldn't the same hackers who faked his facebook page, fake an interview with him?
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 07:42 PM
Jul 2017

What if they have some sort of animatronic replicant, running around saying stupid stuff and ascribing it to him?

Those fiendish berniebros, you can't be too careful.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
118. There are some very talented and sophisticated hackers out there, Warren.
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 07:47 PM
Jul 2017

Who knows what they're capable of? I might not even be me...

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
132. Looking someone up on Facebook isn't Doxxing
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 09:04 PM
Jul 2017

It's typing in a (very public, in this case) name and scrolling through their timeline, which wasn't even set to private. Do you have some information that casts doubt on the account in question? If so you should share it, Raw Story and others would probably be greatful for that information.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
148. True.
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 11:27 PM
Jul 2017

Only someone new to politics or extremely naive would think looking at a candidate's posts on social media is "digging" and that reposting them is a smear campaign. No one even mischaracterized his posts, we just called them what they are: bigoted slurs.

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
188. He has yet to deny it as well
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 03:26 AM
Jul 2017

Does not look good. Thankfully a lazy weekend of browsing facebook is all that was needed, not like we had to drive an hour and a half each way for months for this.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
189. He hasn't deleted those slurs either so he must think they're acceptable.
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 03:34 AM
Jul 2017

He was asked about them but he just ignores reporters and blocks people from his page when they bring it up.

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
131. Absolutely hilarious
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 09:01 PM
Jul 2017

Facebook is such a nebulous and unknown quantity, we may never know how it truly works.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
115. it's a classic. Plus, shit, it's like Carpenter & O'Bannon's student film from UCLA or something.
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 07:39 PM
Jul 2017

My kid just watched "They Live" for the first time (speaking of John Carpenter) and I was having this conversation with him; look, you can't judge it by the standards of cinema today, or even take it seriously as a "movie-movie".. I mean, some of the dialogue is so obviously intentionally bad as to be hilariously campy. But ....it can be appreciated for what it is.

 

Kentonio

(4,377 posts)
69. So you don't give a damn about actual ideals or policy
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 01:48 PM
Jul 2017

Just as long as someone has your teams shirt on. Maybe you should watch football instead?

Rob H.

(5,351 posts)
129. So much this
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 08:50 PM
Jul 2017

That some people would support an anti-science, anti-vaxx, racist transphobe running for office just to have Senator Anyone-but-Sanders is disgusting, to say the least.

 

Foamfollower

(1,097 posts)
153. ACtually, I give far more of a damn over actual ideals or paolicy than any extremist leftist purist
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 12:02 AM
Jul 2017

that refused to vote (D) for president in 2016 or even worse, went for Stein or Trump!

 

Kentonio

(4,377 posts)
200. Neither of which Sanders did
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 12:47 PM
Jul 2017

Yet now you're cheerleading for a bigot with a D after his name over a guy with impecable progressive credentials. Think about that for a minute.

LostOne4Ever

(9,288 posts)
103. Any D over an I?
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 06:33 PM
Jul 2017

Seriously? You would take a Zell Miller over Sanders? George Wallace of 1964 over Sanders? Jefferson Davis?

Party comes second to philosophy. Sanders is pro-lgbtq and this guy isn't. Supporting a bigot like this over Sanders makes one no better than the bigots and bigot enablers of the current Republican Party.

Fuck party, support for civil rights comes first!

 

Foamfollower

(1,097 posts)
159. Principle over meaningless bullshit.
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 12:18 AM
Jul 2017

Any (I) = meaningless bullshit with zero principles or morals because you cannot have principles or morals without party.

aikoaiko

(34,169 posts)
199. "...you cannot have principles or morals without party." What?
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 11:41 AM
Jul 2017

Wow. It's really hard to believe anyone would write that.

Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #155)

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
184. Not if replacing the I with a D meant getting someone significantly to the right of the I.
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 02:52 AM
Jul 2017

Anyone who starts out to the right of the person they replaced(especially if they replaced that person in a primary)will stay to the right of that person forever.

The only people to blame for the November result(other than Comey and the Russians)were the people who ran Hillary's fall campaign. Bernie bears no responsibility for that and it serves no purpose to be at war with not only Bern but his supporters AND with everything his campaign stood for.

No progressive good could ever come of crushing the entire Sanders movement and leaving the party with nothing to the left of HRC and her views at all.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
71. No, he doesn't
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 01:54 PM
Jul 2017

He runs as an independent and has declined the Democratic party nomination when offered.

There was no Democrat on the ballot during either of his Senate runs.

 

Kentonio

(4,377 posts)
76. He runs in the primary, and did in (IIRC) the last 2 races
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 02:26 PM
Jul 2017

Him not accepting the nomination afterwards is a different matter.

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
75. Sanders primary opponent is a loon
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 02:12 PM
Jul 2017

Why waste time paying attention to him?

It's like pretending the rent is too high guy was a credible candidate.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
119. I bet Howard Dean has better stuff to do than engage in an ill-advised grudge match against Bernie
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 07:47 PM
Jul 2017

because Sanders apparently needs to be punished for his sins, or something.

Initech

(100,063 posts)
145. Howard Dean should have been president already.
Sat Jul 15, 2017, 10:36 PM
Jul 2017

What the GOP did to him is unacceptable and unforgivable.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
213. Seems like it, doesn't it?
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 08:57 PM
Jul 2017

If Svitavsky's serious about running and not just doing this to get attention this'll be fun.

Rob H.

(5,351 posts)
214. And just think, this is just the stuff we know about
Sun Jul 16, 2017, 09:08 PM
Jul 2017

Who knows how much more crackpottery will come to light once people go beyond just barely scratching the surface?

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