Katy Tur just said that Hillary is currently polling LESS favorably than 45 according to Bloomberg.

[BigmanPigman]

His tweets DO work...he knows how to discredit anyone (Santa, the Tooth Fairy, the Pope, etc.). I am living in Bizarro World and I want to click my red shoes together and go home!

[Shell_Seas]

1. We have all fell through the looking glass.

[geek tragedy]

2. Hillary is not defending herself because politically she's not relevant to the party

or the country on a forward-looking basis

Tr*mp is wasting his time in attacking her

[milestogo]

3. Why the fuck are they polling on Hillary Clinton?

[CatMor]

11. It doesn't make sense

she is not in office or campaigning for office. Why include her.

[milestogo]

69. So what is there to approve or disapprove of?

Of her being a private citizen?

[lapucelle]

84. The media narratives may have hurt her.

Hillary was a "flawed* candidate"! Unlike anyone else who has ever run for president (including her recent opponent), Hillary is deeply and troubling flawed*!

Hillary is the only losing presidential candidate in Gallup's history who did not receive a polling bump in approval ratings after the election, yet, for the twentieth time, poll respondents named Mrs. Clinton the world's Most Admired Woman. (She's held the "most admired" title more times than anyone, man or woman.) It's difficult to reconcile those two data sets without wondering about the underlying factors, whatever they may be.

Could it be that "flawed"* is code for female?

The New Yorker carried a scathing humor piece that was linked to early today concerning advice for Hillary.

[BigmanPigman]

85. I had an hour long discussion with an old friend this weekend

based on this very point. He admitted he is a misogynist but still said she was "flawed" regardless. AAARRRGGG!!!!

[milestogo]

87. THIS IS WHY MEN SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO HOLD PUBLIC OFFICE.

They're so "flawed" in their thinking about women.

[StevieM]

111. Hillary received devastating press coverage after the election. It would have destroyed anyone.

It was all nonsense, of course.

[TrishaJ]

105. Because Trump is still "running" against her and

Obama. It works with his base and will continue to work because his so-called election was all about reversing the "black" presidency and keeping the "criminal witch" OUT. That's why a large percentage of his voters - and Republicans - will overlook treason with Russia.

[Demsrule86]

96. whataboutitsm...Trump is unpopular but what about Hillary!

[onecaliberal]

4. Kary tird is full of shit

[Agschmid]

14. No, she is actually correct.

Why they are polling her is the better question, but she isn't factually incorrect.

[onecaliberal]

29. I've not seen any poll anywhere. She just furthers the Reich wing meme

The secretary is off living her life. After what this stupid country did to her they should leave her the hell alone.

[calimary]

55. Agreed. It is WAY beyond past time to stop picking on her.

[Agschmid]

56. Sure, but there is a poll... and those were the results.

[George II]

76. True, but the premise behind the poll is as ludicrous as the "popularity" poll we've seen...

...over and over again.

[Hortensis]

102. Why Tur chose to hit this point is also obvious.

She goes after Hillary whenever "appropriate" like someone going after O'Reilly's old audience.

[Agschmid]

106. Actually she doesn't.

But we see what we want to see, that much is clear.

Hillary doesn't matter anymore.

[Hortensis]

109. Hillary "matters" a great deal, to both the left and right.

Hate directed at us is a major tool for achieving right-wing objectives, and there is no chance they are going to stop fanning the hating of us or abandon the single most inflammatory name they have in their arsenal when they're in trouble.

Since you apparently see a fair amount of Tur, and probably other right-wing-serving MSNBC hacks, and since they are in trouble and will be in worse, watch for its deployment.

And btw, I take this personally and believe you should too. None of this is really about the person we chose to run for president. It's about defeating us.

[m-lekktor]

22. no, it's being discussed quite a bit outside of DU. it's a story. nt

[onecaliberal]

36. I read several sites and have not seen that anywhere

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

35. No. She is one of the best reporters on her network.

She was "embedded" with the Trump campaign and did some first-rate reporting. She is definitely no fan of his.

[Agschmid]

58. Yup.

But if we can call her names, why not?

[mythology]

86. And especially if we can do it making fun of her name

As somebody who grew up with a name that could be twisted, it is just utterly pathetic to see "grown ups" doing the same thing. It is revealing as to the character of some people.

[Hekate]

59. You're wrong about that. She's gutsy as hell, went all thru the campaign on the Trump story...

She faced down Trump's mockery and threats of violence at his campaign rallies. She's young, and looks small and not imposing -- and she's female. And true to Trump's bullying nature, he picked on the person who looked small and helpless. Bellowing about the lying media and fake news, he singled her out by name: "There's Little Katy Tur. Look at her!" And the mob turned to look.

It got bad enough that at least once the Secret Service came to her after the rally and voluntarily escorted her back to her car, and when those guys fear for your safety, maybe you should too.

Katy did not back down. She got thinner. Her hair got thinner. But she did not give up.

You think she's carrying water for Trump and the GOP? Really?

I'm glad to see that MSNBC is giving her a try at her own desk. She started out a little nervous, a little unsure of how to manage a panel, and she's gotten better all the time.

So here's to "Little Katy Tur," standing tall.

[Stinky The Clown]

63. Katy Tur, who took untold Trumpabuse during the campaign, is NOT your enemy.

Bloomberg did the poll. Complain about/to them, not about Katy Tur, who is one hell of a badass reporter.

I am a strong HRC supporter, but you're wrong on this one.

[Drunken Irishman]

5. Hillary had low favorability ratings long before Trump.

Fair or not, her biggest weakness has always been her perceived favorability. Unfortunately, in this regard, outside pockets, she's rarely been strong. She's either really well respected & liked or completely hated.

The only two times in her political career where she saw huge increases in her numbers was shortly after the 2008 primary and when she left State. But when she's in a political battle, her numbers suffer for it.

[LBM20]

23. She had very high approval numbers as Sec. of State. The email scandal and the campaign killed her.

[jrthin]

50. Exactly!!!! n/t

[Drunken Irishman]

66. I pointed that out. They were not sustainable.

Her time as Secretary Clinton was artificial compared to her pre and post career.

In 2008, her favorability rating was only slightly better than where it is now. The e-mails didn't help - but her overall popularity has been questionable.

[bettyellen]

33. She also had high approval ratings as senator from NY....

The press however always ignored her when she was popular. I've never seen them treat a candidate so fucking poorly. They ignored how hated Trump was and focused on what WWC men thought of Hillary. She got more votes than anyone last year- and her supporters are never ever interviewed. Even after the women's march they were ignored in favor of greedy sexist morons.

[BeyondGeography]

6. It's all true

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-18/finally-a-poll-trump-will-like-clinton-even-more-unpopular

But who cares? The only potential relevance is 2018; D's might want to think twice about campaigning with her.

[ecstatic]

7. Trump and the MSM mention her name alongside scandals that have nothing to do with her

If what Tur says is true, I'm not surprised.

[madinmaryland]

8. Hilary Swank? WTF is this all about?

[Eliot Rosewater]

9. Proof that the so called alt left message to destroy the D party is working

[nikibatts]

82. Nailed it!

Some folks are mad at Hillary because they didn't vote for her and now have to take responsibility for the fool sitting in the WH. It's like they are really angry at themselves but won't admit it.

At any rate, I guarantee you that Hillary get a standing ovation almost anywhere she goes in public...of course not in W.VAl but that's coming soon.

[Blue_Warrior]

10. I posted this and my thread got locked

We need to get our favorables up. President Obama is doing great! We need him to take a more active role.

[TheBlackAdder]

12. The right wing echo chamber is nearly impregnable.

[Freethinker65]

13. Did they ask the same group their opinions on Obama?

[BeyondGeography]

17. Yes

"In contrast to Clinton, former President Barack Obama has fared well with some distance from the spotlight. He’s viewed favorably by 61 percent, up 5 points since December and at the highest level since the poll began tracking him in September 2009."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-18/finally-a-poll-trump-will-like-clinton-even-more-unpopular

[Freethinker65]

40. Thanks for the link

Stupid in that they highlighted Hillary's poll numbers. Since she is seen as "losing" the Presidential race to Trump, and all of her previous years of media tossing shit at her, I am disappointed but not too surprised.

She seems to be getting a lot of much deserved spontaneous standing ovations from the public however, something that I am sure eats at Trump with his bussed in/prescreened ego boosting rallies.

[BeyondGeography]

42. Trump is still going after her

and she's conducting herself like an adult, so her numbers go down.

Standard post-election decorum is out the window. It would be nice if Americans didn't fall for it but look who they put in the WH.

[Freethinker65]

48. While it may hurt her poll numbers in relation to his, it is not increasing his overall polling

He is seen as an incompetent ineffective childish leader. He cannot prop himself up by pulling her down anymore because she is no longer in the "game".

He should be comparing himself to other world leaders like Trudeau, Merkel, May, Macron, Xi Jinping, Abe, Nieto, Putin, etc.

[BeyondGeography]

49. I agree...He's blowing it by going after her

I guess you could say she's taking one for the team, but she knows she would only debase herself by hitting back.

[Freethinker65]

52. Yep

[karynnj]

73. Her numbers are also down because she lost

The same think happened to John Kerry's and Mitt Romney's numbers after they lost election - though neither were net unfavorable during the election or after it. I suspect that with time her approval numbers will improve, though not to the level they were when she was first lady or Secretary of State.

The spontaneous applause has been in NYC and other very blue places.

I also think that her numbers may be hurt by unfounded rumours that I doubt she has anything to do with that she might run again - when she publicly said she was not going to. It is very possible that many Democrats may be saying negative because they fear she might run again and they are afraid of that.

[Awsi Dooger]

90. She's a woman and she lost

That combo is a first, and a major aspect of Hillary's rating.

The simpletons who voted for Trump may try to ignore how he's faring but they take delight in bashing Hillary and pretending she would have been worse. Why not? There's zero risk.

It's unbelievable how much energy they are spending to fixate on Hillary and make her the issue. I go to lots of true crime sites and there are links all over the place with titles like, "The Hillary video they don't want you to see..."

They invariably portray her at those links with either a very unappealing or scheming expression.

[NCTraveler]

20. Yes. Poll results can be found at the link. Nt

[NCTraveler]

15. Clinton Derangement Syndrome.

Clickbate and weak.

[pnwmom]

16. She's not out there showing off and looking for attention. Most people aren't thinking about her,

unless DT is trashing her and using her as a distraction.

[Blue_Tires]

18. And leftbro Twitter has been jizzing all over themselves all day

so we have a pretty good idea on how they answered the poll...

[ismnotwasm]

19. Yup. Noticed that

Annoying creatures

[bettyellen]

65. Oh yeah, they're upset people aren't sorry they voted for HRC. They want to see us suffer as

Bad as thebTrumpsters do. It's sick.

[pirateshipdude]

91. Lives... Don't matter. That is what is repulsive. Eom

[Starry Messenger]

88. +1

[dsc]

21. If you dislike Clinton and like Obama

it pretty much has to be sexism plain and simple. She was to the left of him on virtually every issue of the day.

[David__77]

25. Not on Syria.

And that was an important issue for me. Obama did the right thing by not intervening or imposing a no fly zone.

[dsc]

27. I remember him asking the Congress to let him bomb

but being told no.

[David__77]

30. And, ultimately, there was no vote.

He made the right decision in pulling back from what would have been a terrible and tragic error. The fact is that he did pull back from that and he pursued the correct policy.

[dsc]

31. He didn't make a decision he was told no

that is a pretty big difference. His policy was her policy.

[David__77]

32. Congress didn't vote.

Clinton advocated a no fly zone and Obama didn't do so.

[dsc]

37. no he merely wanted to bomb them and kill people

[David__77]

38. I would not characterize it as such.

I think he executed the correct policy in not bombing or enforcing a no fly zone.

[BeyondGeography]

39. That's incorrect

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/04/world/syria-exposes-split-between-obama-and-clinton.html

"Syria, however, remains an open sore unlike the others. Mrs. Clinton not only argued for more aggressive policy while in office, but is now looking ahead 15 months, anticipating that, if she wins the presidency, she will inherit the mess in the Middle East. Mr. Obama has said he expects to pass to his successor the war against the Islamic State terrorist group occupying parts of Syria and Iraq.

Mrs. Clinton made her frustration with the current approach clear on Thursday in interviews with Boston television stations. “I personally would be advocating now for a no-fly zone and humanitarian corridors to try to stop the carnage on the ground and from the air,” she told WHDH-TV.

The White House has rejected a no-fly zone for years and repeated its position this week. “It raises a whole set of logistical questions about how exactly — what would be enforced, what sort of resources would be used to actually protect that area,” said Josh Earnest, the White House press secretary. “So that’s why, at this point, we’ve indicated that that’s not something that we’re considering right now.”

[dsc]

47. Left to his own devices he would have bombed Syria

and that would have led to the no fly zones.

[BeyondGeography]

51. He was a year behind HRC and State in terms of aggressiveness

To your original point, which I disagree with, a lot of a Democrats voted for Obama over Hillary in 2008 because of her IWR vote, his strong denunciation of the idea of war in Iraq in October of 2002 and because they saw him as being to the left of her on FP. That doesn't make them sexist either.

[dsc]

53. I am not saying that all the people who voted for him in 2008 over her were sexist

but I am saying that those who disapprove of her but approved of his presidency likely are.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

97. The media and Republicans

Practically creamed themselves when Trump bombed Syria in retalition for the reported chemical attack. Even a lot of the public got behind Trump for one bright, shining moment.

[lunamagica]

46. +1

[stevenleser]

100. Amazing to me that anyone is arguing with you on this

Selective memory maybe? I remember this as one of the three times I broke with Obama on policy during his administration.

[obamanut2012]

101. THIS

[OnDoutside]

26. I had to double check the date, to make sure this isn't 2016. Move on, Hillary has.

[Hekate]

60. Hillary has moved on. She didn't ask to have her name in the poll, did she?

[OnDoutside]

92. Absolutely, and she made reference to not going again.

The ONLY benefit of this is that they're not already attacking a future potential nominee like Harris, Rimes or Schiff.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

28. I'm sure Dolt 45's constant harping and snarking about her since the election

has had a significant effect on public opinion in some locations - mostly people who didn't like her in the first place. But since she isn't running for anything and probably won't, it's not worth getting too exercised over.

[sharedvalues]

34. Here's why HRC has bad numbers

There are several foundations DEDICATED to smearing Hillary and Bill.
Politics of personal destruction. Watch out, because the GOP is now training its sights on Liz Warren.


And the left repeats some of the manufactured talking points.
Charlie Pierce. "Will the NYT ever fix its Clinton problem"?
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a54602/new-york-times-clinton-coverage-book/

[BannonsLiver]

54. Would love to know how much the GOP has spent slurring the Clintons

That would include GOP, outside groups etc over the last 30 years. I'd bet it's well into the tens of billions.

And also how much wealth has been created by the Clintons and the industry around slurring them. For example Rush Limbaugh's entire net worth, which is said to be in the hundreds of millions, is entirely a product of that industry.

[sharedvalues]

72. Judicial Watch, etc. Total $1B attacking Clintons.

From Green today in NPR interview:
"And so you literally had people who had spent 20, 25 years thinking and plotting about how to stop Hillary Clinton suddenly in charge of a half-billion-dollar presidential campaign led by a candidate who is more than willing to carry out those attacks."

So $0.5B there.

Judicial Watch: yearly budget $35M (wikipedia). Over 20 years: $0.7B

Government Accountability Institute (published Bannon smear books). At least $5M / yr. Mercer, Koches, Franklin Center each gave $1-2M in chunks. Since 2012: $25M.

You can try to sum up the money spent by G Conway, Peter Smith, Kenneth Starr, etc. But I'll leave those out.


So total funds spent attacking the Clintons - at least ONE BILLION DOLLARS over 20 years. And that doesn't count Robert Safire's or Maggie Haberman's salaries at the NYT.

[Still In Wisconsin]

41. People hate Hillary.

Not for any good or legitimate reason, but they do. It's the effect of literally decades of smearing by the RW noise machine. There IS also Clinton fatigue, which is as real as Bush fatigue. That, and she's had a few self-inflicted wounds- but mostly it's the RW smears.

[MuseRider]

43. So?

Time to move on, we have work to do and Hillary has little to nothing to do with it. Do NOT let them lay out everyone because of the Clintons. Old news, they are out of the game so who cares how she polls?

She is gone, they should lay off. More than that, we need to stop giving a shit what anyone says about the Clintons. They are out of the game.

[DURHAM D]

44. Not a fan.

She has repeatedly shown her Krystal Ball/Andrea Mitchel disdain for Hillary.

It is baked in with her.

otoh - The real question is why did Katy bother to report it at all. It is not news.

Also, I have heard several people say that they voted for Trump and now regret it but they are really mad at Hillary because she is not out fighting back and putting Trump in his place. You can't fix stupid so if those people were polled I know how they will answer, even though they now hate Trump.

[Mike Nelson]

57. I continue to see...

...and hear, on social media and FOX, lies about Hillary. The most traction, now, is the "Hillary sold our uranium supply to the Russians." A total fabrication, but bandied about... also, Obama has some sort of "dark sleeping" government and is the one leaking stories about Trump so he can take over...

These people never quit...

[democratisphere]

61. Even if you click your red shoes together, you'll discover the good witch

has been replaced by an insane narcissistic lying maniac and his bullshit is piled high in the sky in Kansas too.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

62. Most successful smear campaign ever.

It will likely outlive her. I'll bet there is a trust to continue the vilification long after us all.

[JHan]

64. Public Policy Polling says otherwise.. and I don't even know why she is being polled:

She is not in public office, there's still horseshit thrown at her from dudebros whenever she opens her mouth and yet

Voters wish that either Barack Obama (53/40) or Hillary Clinton (49/42) was President instead of Trump. Trump loses by wide margins in hypothetical matches against Joe Biden (54/39) or Bernie Sanders (52/39) for reelection. Trump loses 12-13% of the folks who voted for him last fall to either Biden or Sanders. Trump also trails in hypothetical contests against Elizabeth Warren (49/42), Cory Booker (45/40), and Kamala Harris (41/40). The one Democrat Trump manages a tie against is Mark Zuckerberg, at 40/40. Zuckerberg is actually not a particularly well known figure nationally- 47% of voters say they have no opinion about him to 24% with a positive one and 29% with a negative one.

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2017/07/health-care-a-mine-field-for-republicans-many-trump-voters-in-denial-on-russia.html

[lunamagica]

110. Thank you. This deserves its own thread

[Drahthaardogs]

67. Who cares? It is not about her any more.

Why give them the satisfaction?

[Atman]

68. Who cares? She's not the president.

[Catherine Vincent]

70. Why is her popularity polled anyway? She's not in office.

[Deuce]

71. And yet the voters of the country preferred her over all the other presidential candidates.

[George II]

74. This poll is irrelevant, no reason for them to have even conducted that poll. All it does...

...is present a false premise about trump and those to whom he was compared.

I don't even know why this is here on DU.

[Solly Mack]

75. Clinton isn't in the oval or any other office.

Attacks on her now serve no other purpose than to rile up people who have nothing better to do (and some have something to gain through deflection) than deflect from what is going on with Trump and the GOP.

It exposes how Trump supporters would rather have someone to revile than to take responsibility for their vote and what it says about them.

Maybe they really don't want health care as long as they can attack Clinton instead.

Maybe they really don't want jobs and a living wage, as long as they can get together and chant "Lock her up".

Maybe that's all they really want - the chance to hate.

Maybe that's all they deserve - two minutes of hate time to vent and then a return to low paying jobs, bad health care if any at all, struggling to feed their families, and wondering who is going to OD today. Because it sure seems that's what is important to them - the hate.

Maybe that chance to vent their hate works well enough for them to forget everything else.

It sure seems that way.

[csziggy]

77. For those who want to analyse the poll, here is a link to the questions

Which includes previous answers to similar questions:

https://assets.bwbx.io/documents/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/rea7oF1xoNA0/v0 (opens a PDF)

One of the MOST relevant questions from the above document:
If last year’s presidential election were held today, for whom would you vote — for Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton, for someone else, or would you not vote? Jul-17
Donald Trump - Hillary Clinton - Someone else - Would not vote - Refused/not sure
.......32.................35.....................20......................8........................5

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So if the election had been held a month ago, Hillary would have again gotten the popular vote it that poll is to be believed. Whether she would have won would again depend on the Electoral College.

The next question (on page 11) is also interesting, about which party people consider they are members of - Republican numbers have dropped since December - but there are more people who consider themselves independent than members of either party.

The Bloomberg article about the poll is at: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-18/finally-a-poll-trump-will-like-clinton-even-more-unpopular

[AgadorSparticus]

78. I don't believe this for one second.

[BigmanPigman]

83. That's why I posted it. I only heard her say it and said, "What the fuck?!"

I wanted to know of anyone on DU heard it as well for verification purposes. Also, since I'll be without health insurance soon I needed to know if I should have my hearing checked out by a doctor now instead of later.

[The_REAL_Ecumenist]

79. BULLSHIT!! I do NOT believe that AT ALL!!

It feels to me that "THEY" know that things are coming to a head and that everyone from trump down through the VAST majority of the republican party are going to be frogmarched out and are trying to damage her so that the inbreds idiots can reject her as the RIGHTFUL president. THERE'S NO WAY that Hillary is polling lower than that demented, perverted, incompetent, pederastic NON-president.

[roamer65]

80. Guess what, Katy Turd?

She's not running for office.

[WinkyDink]

89. The relevance would be...?

[LittleBlue]

93. Katy Tur under the bus because she reported inconvenient facts

This is undoubtedly one of the most annoying phenomenons among political partisans. Attack the messenger or some irrelevant aspect of the message, ignore the message.

[Demsrule86]

95. Actually, she reported on a poll so what. However, that aside, I don't care for her or her show.

She seems to let GOP types blather on and on while attacking Democrats...I just don't care for her and never watch MTP Daily if she is the host.

[LanternWaste]

103. Less inconvenient facts, but rather simple irrelevancy.

Less inconvenient facts, but rather a simple irrelevancy.

Conflating the two purposefully also being one of the more annoying phenomena among political partisans...

[emulatorloo]

104. She reported on a poll. Nothing more nothing less. Next week there will be another opinion poll

I know it seems like a good excuse for you to smear your fellow DU'ers, but it is insignificant in the long run.

[George II]

108. What's the message? An insignificant poll about mythical matchups. What's the point?

[Vinca]

94. Why is a private citizen being polled?

[Proud Liberal Dem]

99. Good question

This sort of stuff makes me mad/disgusted. It's bad enough that Hillary got trashed so much during the campaign but to keep trying to prop up Trump by comparing her to Trump in a popularity poll just seems obscene at this point.

[mfcorey1]

98. Why are they polling her? She is not the president

[MrsCoffee]

107. A meaningless distraction.

Be suspicious of anything or anyone trying to change the subject. The real subject is still Trump's treasonous collusion with Russia to steal the election from Hillary and Democratic candidates.

Focus on the important stuff, not the stuff that raises tv ratings. We've done enough eating of our own to last ten lifetimes.