Florida Teens Will Face Charges After Mocking, Filming Death Of Drowning Man (UPDATED)

[sheshe2]

A group of teens in Cocoa, Florida who allegedly laughed, taunted and filmed a drowning man with a disability will face criminal charges, police said Friday.

Cocoa Police Chief Michael Cantaloupe made the announcement during a Friday afternoon press conference. Previously, the police department told media that they would be unable to charge the teens.

snip//

The case sparked outrage this week when it was revealed that five teenage boys between the ages of 14 and 16 allegedly stood and watched for more than two minutes last week as 32-year-old Jamel Dunn struggled to stay afloat in a fenced-off retention pond.

“You gonna die,” one of the teenagers said in a video posted to social media.

“Ain’t nobody fixing to help you, you dumb ass,” another teen shouted as Dunn called for help.

Not one of the teenagers attempted to assist Dunn or called or help. Instead, they laughed and filmed his final moments, police said.

More http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/florida-teens-mock-film-man-drowning-disability_us_597229f3e4b00e4363df267c?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

The little pieces of filth, I hope they get the maximum sentence. He screamed for help and they just laughed. "The footage is graphic and disturbing."

[COLGATE4]

2. Those are bullshit charges. They should be thrown out of court.

[EL34x4]

3. Public outrage demanded they find something to charge them with.

So now the youths will be charged with violating a law written specifically to address the responsibility of medical examiners to properly report death.

[COLGATE4]

4. And when a judge stops laughing long enough to throw

it out of court the sheriff will claim that 'they got off on a legal technicality'.

[VermontKevin]

13. I agree. What they did was disgusting, but not a crime.

I think it's an abuse of power to charge them.

Still, having watched that video, I'm shaken at the lack of empathy and humanity shown. As a parent, I can only hope I've done better.

[whathehell]

56. It should be..

Ever heard of "depraved indifference"?

[elleng]

59. Right, or somesuch,

and to ridicule sincere attempts by the authorities to diminish the importance of the behavior is not 'civil.'

[whathehell]

60. Yeah..There's a couple of posts here that I find disturbing

in their cold indifference.

[sheshe2]

80. Whathehell? Is all I have to say.

The cold indifference and posting the victims police record is chilling. It is almost like saying the victim is now the criminal and the children, innocent victims of the criminal system.

Thanks for your responses, whathehell.

[whathehell]

83. Yep..That poster forgot to mention the victim was disabled too.

Can't help but wonder if he/she is the kind of parent who could raise sociopathic kids like this.

No need to thank me..Thank YOU for the original post.

[HockeyMom]

305. Even with the disabled that only applies up to a point

I worked with MR/DD people. We were under legal obligation to protect their lives, but only if we ourselves were capable of doing it. If not, we were required to get help from another who could.

They run out into traffic? Yes, grabbing them and pulling them to safety. I have actually done that once. Anyone can do that. Drowning? Not if yourself cannot swim. Call someone else who can. That would be enough to satisfy the obligation to protect.

[whathehell]

306. In pointing out the victim's disability,

I wasn't highlighting the greater moral & ethical culpability, not the legal.

[cwydro]

112. Amazing.

Isn't it?

[cwydro]

117. It's not something I expected to see here.

Very sad.

[whathehell]

207. Yes, although I'd honestly be surprised to see it anywhere.

Creepy.

[whathehell]

220. Yes, as Democrats aren't we supposed to be about social responsibility?

Isn't that why we advocate healthcare for all and assistance to the disadvantaged?

Drowning to death somehow strikes me as a 'disadvantage'...Maybe we're missing something.

[Orrex]

273. What is the definition of depraved indifference?

Yes, Google is my friend, but the definition I'm seeing doesn't seem to apply in this case.

Can you cite the source for your definition?

[forgotmylogin]

160. I think they could be charged for filming it.

If they didn't call for help, and they filmed this guy drowning on their phones and didn't report it, then posted to their social media before anyone knew how the guy died, it could be said they were withholding evidence, and possibly seeking to profit from the footage by putting it up for clicks, views, or profit.

Posting this footage publicly amounts to distributing a snuff film if they didn't instead turn it over to help the authorities pinpoint time and manner of death.

[Demsrule86]

222. It is a crime...depraved indifference.

[VermontKevin]

259. "Depraved indifference" is not a crime. It is an element or descriptor.

In this case, what is the crime that "depraved indifference" is an element of?

[demigoddess]

262. how about not reporting an accident.

letting a missing person remain missing. Letting the police hunt for him when they knew what happened. Wasting police time and money. not reporting a body would sometime be an offense.

[Demsrule86]

266. It can be a crime...I hope there are some charges against these terrible kids...they serial killers

in the making. I hear they will be charged with something.

[Generic Other]

307. In Washington state it is a crime

We have a good Samaritan law. You must render aid in an emergency.

I did wonder if any of the teens could swim. It's possible they mocked to hide their own lack of ability. Nevertheless, their inaction and behavior was sickening.

[whathehell]

71. Somehow I think "laughing" might be just a tad inappropriate here..

Fuck that depraved indifference.

[COLGATE4]

85. Not laughing about the incident - laughing about the fool of

a lawyer who actually brought that loser of a case into court.

[whathehell]

205. Yes, but given the context,

it comes off as callous and insensitive.

You seem terribly sure that the case is a "loser". Are you a Florida lawyer?

[COLGATE4]

267. Yes. (Retired)

[Judi Lynn]

175. "Depraved indifference" most clearly apply to racists who want to bellow

that this man deserved to drown because he had been arrested previously.

Racists believe their hatred should guide our world.

[cwydro]

179. Laughing?

Good lord.

[COLGATE4]

243. You are obviously desperate to find something to be

offended about.

[sheshe2]

5. Did you read it all and have no outrage yourself?

Did you watch their recording and listen to them laughing out loud and ridiculing him as he drown. Then they posted this, to them just a hilarious event on social media.

[jberryhill]

9. Yes but it is not a crime

The statute they are using is failure to report a death:

406.12 Duty to report; prohibited acts.—It is the duty of any person in the district where a death occurs, including all municipalities and unincorporated and federal areas, who becomes aware of the death of any person occurring under the circumstances described in s. 406.11 to report such death and circumstances forthwith to the district medical examiner.

-----

In the video, he is not dead yet. So what they are being charged with has nothing to do with their atrocious behavior during the incident.

In point of fact, they quite obviously publicized his death.

[aikoaiko]

35. But in the video, the observers say, "Oh he not coming back up" "He just died"

Wouldn't that be enough?

Someone on the tape says then need to call someone to get the body and someone else says no.

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c29_1500585733

[jberryhill]

84. Um

So a group of teenagers is then going to call the medical examiner?

Because this statute has nothing to do with calling the police or EMS.

So, yeah, if you see someone die by accident in Florida and call 911, you are committing a crime - because you are calling the wrong people.

I suspect this statute was intended for a very different purpose.

Does anyone think the "wrong" here is that they didn't call the ME after the guy drowned?

[kcr]

89. They left him and didn't tell anyone.

The victim's family reported him missing three days later.

[jberryhill]

93. And if they called the medical examiner, he'd be alive?

Pro-tip: if you are a minor and out drinking or smoking weed, calling the police is not your best move.

[kcr]

94. Right. Laughing at him and doing nothing is the right move!

Jesus.

[jberryhill]

96. Excuse me?

I find nothing "right" about what these kids did.

You are confusing two very different things if you believe the law is a guide to how one should behave.

If the Florida Statutes are your guide to moral or ethical behavior, then that's pretty scary itself.

Laughing at accidental deaths is a regular source of amusement at DU. They are called "Darwin Awards".

[kcr]

98. You didn't? Could have fooled me with your posts in this thread.

Not on your A game tonight.

[jberryhill]

100. Okay

Please quote anything I said which suggests I approve of their behavior?

It's not illegal.

It is legal to walk down the street and say "fuck you" to everyone you pass.

If someone were arrested for that, I would say that what they were doing is not a crime.

Whether something is a crime is not the same thing as whether something is "good" or "right".

If "is it a crime" is your test of morality, then you have no morals.

[kcr]

101. I never claimed you approved of it. But it's clear you don't see anything wrong with it.

Because it isn't illegal. As if whether or not something is legal is the sole determination of whether a thing is morally right or wrong. You even ludicrously compared it to DUers laughing about crimes they read about on the internet. Yeah, sorry. I think I have the measure of you on this one.

[jberryhill]

119. Again you couldn't be further from the truth

I see plenty wrong with it.

I see nothing illegal about it.

If Florida wanted to pass a law requiring people to call 911 when they saw someone in distress, they could pass such a law.

They have not. Neither has any other state.

Let me ask you something: Do you approve of everything which is legal to do?

[kcr]

130. So what? Ask me how shocked I am that Florida doesn't have a law against this.

Actually, most states don't. Only a handful actually do. But it doesn't have anything to do with how wrong it was. I don't get the point of running around breathlessly telling everyone horrified about it that it was legal. And the real kicker was comparing their actions to reading about crimes on the internet! Not convinced.

[jberryhill]

134. Will you be contacting your state legislators?

Or are you going to stand by, let this go on, and do nothing?

There are many "Darwin Awards" which do not involve crimes.

People on DU justify laughing at accidental deaths by saying "but they were stupid" all of the time.

[kcr]

138. So you're going to double down

and still claim that reading about something on the internet that already happened sometime in the past is TOTALLY just like watching a man drown in real time, and then leave and tell no one about it. Great choice.

[jberryhill]

139. It will happen again

You do not believe this behavior should be illegal?

[kcr]

170. You are the one who is hung up on the legalities.

You are obsessed with it.

[jberryhill]

171. The title of this thread is "Florida Teens Face Charges"

It's not "Florida Teens are shitheads".

They are certainly shitheads.

But, yeah, in the context of a post about criminal charges, I find it relevant to discuss legal stuff

They are not charged with "mocking drowning man" however, which is the disturbing aspect of their behavior.

[kcr]

174. You found it so disturbing that you were compelled to tell people it isn't illegal.

I can see how that title drew you like a moth to the flame! Okay then. Glad we cleared this up

[jberryhill]

176. Hardly

I was waiting for the weather report on the local news, because I am training for a charity bike ride in which I have raised $8,500 for the Dana Farber Cancer Center next month. The money is for the Jimmy Fund, which provides cancer treatment to children. So I want to know the detailed weather for tomorrow, since the ride is 163 miles and I want to get in at least 150 this weekend.

So, silly me. While waiting for the weather, I thought I'd go to a discussion forum and discuss something.

Personally, I find it a little more sanity-preserving to find positive things to do, in a world seemingly filled with people who believe condemning others is "doing good".

I'm just short of my goal. Perhaps you could help.

http://profile.pmc.org/JB0722

[sheshe2]

192. So you have based everything you say here on the title of the article and nothing else.

Well, you have made that very clear through this entire thread. Never read the whole article which includes the original article without the update. The title is not the complete article which you make clear you have no concern with. You are only interested in the legalities and not what happened and who might be culpable for Jamel's death'

cul·pa·ble


ADJECTIVE
deserving blame:
"sometimes you're just as culpable when you watch something as when you actually participate"

Can they be charged for it, doubtful. They are guilty, yet never the sole point of my OP. Yet you took that ball and ran all over this thread.

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c29_1500585733

[jberryhill]

194. They are "little pieces of filth" as you put it

Prison is too good for non-human little pieces of filth.

How long would you like to lock up a 14 year old kid in order to make him human in your opinion?

Let it all out. Express your hate long and loud to prove your decency.

So, yes, I admit I skipped over the part where you referred to these children as little pieces of filth.

[sheshe2]

202. Pretty sure we cleared all this up in my post 200

So filth is worse than you calling them monsters?

Guess you skipped over where you called the monsters.

The kids are monsters, there is no question about that.
 https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9356874

So lets try this again J.

I am going to quote what you said and then once again let your imagination run away and substitute your word..."monster" for mine "filth"

jberryhill
194.
They are "little pieces of filth" as you put it

Prison is too good for non-human little pieces of filth.

How long would you like to lock up a 14 year old kid in order to make him human in your opinion?

Let it all out. Express your hate long and loud to prove your decency.

So, yes, I admit I skipped over the part where you referred to these children as little pieces of filth.

Other than the word filth that we are now going to substitute for monster are all YOUR WORDS. NOT ONE DID I EXPRESS. This is YOUR IMAGINARY CONVERSATION and NOTHING I STATED.

Are we clear now? Great thanks and have a good night.

[whathehell]

217. It's a bad analogy.

I doubt the book would have sold well had the authors confessed to being present at the scene while ignoring the victims cries for help.

[sheshe2]

159. Give me some links.

[jberryhill]

162. Links to what?

Your state representatives?

Perhaps if I knew what state you lived in, and your address, I could track down your state representatives.

Presumably, you voted in their election, and would have a much better idea who they are than I would.

[jberryhill]

178. Here's a link

http://profile.pmc.org/JB0722

[whathehell]

216. Excuse yourself..

Your singular focus on technical legalities rather than on the sadism these people showed the victim says something about you.

Your attempt to excuse their behavior by equating it with responses to a book says even more, and, no, it's not good.

[cwydro]

121. wow.

amazing.

[jberryhill]

125. What's amazing?

The kids are monsters, there is no question about that.

What they did wrong was not "failing to call the medical examiner". If that's what you think is wrong here, then I'm surprised at your lack of decency.

What they did wrong here was laughing and joking while someone was drowning. That is not a criminal offense in Florida or anywhere else.

[cwydro]

133. Again.

wow.

[lunamagica]

146. Then it should be. Mocking someone who is dying instead of doing anything at all to help like

calling 911, yelling for help. running to get help, anything, should be a crime

[jberryhill]

149. I agree with you

Unfortunately, it is not.

[lunamagica]

156. Well, perhaps after this, it will be.

[Orrex]

301. jberryhill once shot a man in Reno just to watch him die

[whathehell]

244. Thank you..

These 'people' are sociopaths with no respect for human life. They frighten me, as they should everyone.

[sheshe2]

97. Hey, jberry

Did they go home and tell their parents? That would be a no.

[jberryhill]

122. Is that also a crime?

You seem not to understand the difference between something that is wrong, and something that is illegal.

There are people who confuse their moral code with the legal code.

You can live your life and never break a law, and be a complete moral monster.

[aikoaiko]

103. I think it is the least wrong, but it is the one that is codified.

And calling 911 is sufficient notification. 911 isn't necessary the police or medical aid, but the portal for appropriate governmental aid in an emergency.

Sure, I get it that the law wasn't intended for this case, but many laws are applied outside their intended use, no?

[jberryhill]

127. The law requires calling the ME, not someone else

[aikoaiko]

140. Either way, but 911 dispatch can send the ME.

I would support their defense if they contacted the ME through 911.

[jberryhill]

143. Okay, so...

You are okay with the laughing, joking and video, as long as they call 911.

Do I have that right?

[aikoaiko]

147. No I'm not, but apparently that's not against the law.

[whathehell]

209. Absurd..

Their actions are clearly inconsistent with calling 911.

[whathehell]

215. Um..

"Does anyone think the 'wrong' here is that they didn't call the ME after the guy died"?

Somehow I'm betting most think the "wrong" here is their behavior WHILE the guy died.

[whathehell]

64. It should be..

It's depraved Indifference, at best.

[X_Digger]

118. "Depraved indifference" is not a crime. It's an adjective.

Please don't spout something from Law and Order as though it were a real thing.

Depraved Indifference Homicide, Depraved Indifference Reckless Conduct- those are things. (Depends on the state.)

[whathehell]

210. So sorry, dear..

and fuck Law and Order...I bet more here are disgusted by your lack of expressed humanity than by my lack of legal acumen.

[sheshe2]

87. The kids in the video said he was not coming back up.

You watched it correct? The whole video...the Utube one? There was a link for it in my OP, did you see it? He went down one last time and did not come back up. I posted it below.

He was dead and that would make it a crime and posting it social media was NOT reporting the crime. To them it was just a joke.

AUDIO and VIDEO

[jberryhill]

90. See my post above

It's a reporting requirement obviously intended for different circumstances. Had they called 911, they'd still be in violation of that statute.

This is a discussion forum where people find accidental deaths amusing quite often. Search this board for "Darwin Award" and you will find adults behaving the same way.

[cwydro]

108. Just reading this thread is horrifying to me.

Depraved humans who watch a human die and do nothing.

No doubt they'd cheer when an animal dies too.

Really scary that posters here are defending this.

I'm finding myself more and more not someone who belongs here anymore.

[sheshe2]

113. I am here less and less.

This is not what Democrats are about. Then again see Zimmerman here and also the Boston Marathon Bombing.

[cwydro]

116. yes.

I hear you.

I still haven't watched the video. I want to sleep tonight.

The comments here make me very sad.

[jberryhill]

128. Who is defending that behavior?

Do you really think every moral wrong is a criminal offense?

[cwydro]

145. Still amazed.

I am so glad I'm a different kind of person.

To this day, I'll jump into water even to save a wee creature (a mouse, a cat, a dog, an iguana. if I see one in distress. I've done it before, and I'll do it again. Always. No thought involved.

I haven't looked at the video, but what utter scum must these kids be.

Watching a human die is beyond my comprehension.

[jberryhill]

151. It's beyond mine too

I agree with you.

Apparently, there are people who confuse what the law requires, and what common decency requires.

[sheshe2]

166. Yet your focus has been on the law and that alone.

You have said little about common decency.

Common decency would have been for them to be terrified for a human being in distress. Common decency would have been a call to 911. Common decency would be to show horror that a man died. Common decency would be going home and telling your parents what you witnessed.

They did the exact opposite. They not only did not do ONE of the above, they celebrated, cheered and filmed his death.

Do not come back at me and say that NONE of that was against the law. It is in fact against the LAW OF HUMANITY!

[jberryhill]

168. This is one of two threads I've commented on this story

The OP is not about common decency. The OP is about criminal charges.

The OP is certainly not about me, and while I'm flattered that you want to discuss that I have indeed commented on the legal aspects of this, since that is what the OP is about, it might be better to start a seperare thread if you'd like to discuss what I choose to comment on and how.

[sheshe2]

181. I did not say my OP was about criminal charges alone.

It is about the original story and the update and I followed this from the beginning and now the criminal charges that follow the story that has yet to come to an end conclusion.

The OP is not about common decency. The OP is about criminal charges.

The OP is certainly not about me, and while I'm flattered that you want to discuss that I have indeed commented on the legal aspects of this, since that is what the OP is about, it might be better to start a seperare thread if you'd like to discuss what I choose to comment on and how.

Sorry, J...so glad you are flattered. This is a big story and has many facets and I will comment on my thread as I please and let it take us where it goes. I am not the one that keeps changing the tone here, start at the top of the thread and read down. The OP was far more than the charges of the teens involved, that is what your focus is. Your focus not mine. It is about teens that watched and cheered a mans death. The charges. This story has more than one focus so please do not tell me how I might better myself by posting a new OP, J. I can handle this. I do just fine on my own, though I thank you for your concern and direction.

[whathehell]

237. No, the OP is about both common decency and criminal charges..

You chose the part that was of most concern to you.

[whathehell]

226. Apparently there are DUers who confuse General Discussion with a Law forum.

[whathehell]

218. It's less about "defending" and more about ignoring the absolute immorality of these acts

added to your hostility to the idea of legal sanctions.

[COLGATE4]

254. It's not "hostility to the idea of legal sanctions"

to point out that there are no available legal sanctions for the conduct described.

[whathehell]

274. Technically, no

but when done repeatedly, with no accompanying expression of disgust for the acts of the perpetrators, it certainly seems so.

[COLGATE4]

281. As an attorney my job is not to 'express disgust for the acts of the perpetrators'. It is to see

Last edited Sun Jul 23, 2017, 11:36 AM - Edit history (1)

that the accused receives a fair trial and that the state meets its burden of proof. In this instance (which the state finally recognized) the state was attempting to charge these kids with violating a law which doesn't exist, an overreaching which I reject and condemn. I'll leave the job of expressing disgust to those who feel so inclined.

[whathehell]

294. You're not at your job now --In fact, by your own admission, you're a RETIRED attorney

and feeling and expressing disgust at inhumane behavior, isn't a "job", it's part of being human -- Sorry if you can't identify.

[COLGATE4]

296. Whether or not I'm practicing at the moment has nothing to do with

my being concerned that people be treated fairly by the law and law enforcement. These kids were not being treated fairly. Fortunately cooler heads prevailed and the state recognized that there were no grounds for issuing charges against them.

[whathehell]

299. When you're a hammer, everything is a nail

Last edited Wed Jul 26, 2017, 03:29 AM - Edit history (1)

In your view, the perpetrators are bring "treated unfairly" in terms of present Florida law.
Their community, however, is outraged by their actions, deeming them depraved to the point of warranting sanctions. Such
situations frequently trigger new laws with a different interpretation of fairness.

[COLGATE4]

300. When the 'outraged community' gets the law changed, we'll talk.

Until then, the correct result occurred.

[whathehell]

304. "Until then the correct result occurred"?

Might to wait until awake before posting.

[COLGATE4]

308. Whining because the law doesn't work the way you

think it ought to doesn't accomplish anything.

[whathehell]

309. Lol...Non-responsive

That wasn't "whining", bro, that was mockery!

[whathehell]

224. No, cwyro, you belong here..The sociopaths who apparently don't know

that Democrats are about social responsibility don't belong here.

[cwydro]

225. This has been an eye-opening thread.

That's for sure.

[Ms. Toad]

260. Agreed.

People who respond to depravity by becoming depraved, to being lied to by becoming better liars, or to homphobia by using "gay" as an insult, etc. are not my people.

Beating our opponents at their own game - which seems to be the rage around here - means becoming like them. Then we've lost, and essentially acknowledged that there was never any real difference to begin with.

[Caliman73]

11. I did. Yes I am outraged, sickened and saddened.

I hope you can answer a few of questions for me.

Are we basing legal action on outrage? How will that look?

What specific crime did the teenagers commit?

[sheshe2]

15. Not at all and I did not write the article, nor did I say that.

Also, how will it look? How will it look that some teens filmed a man drowning and laugh and joke about it.

Well, I am not a lawyer so I can't answer that for you, then again I am sure the department consulted lawyers.

[whathehell]

40. Depraved Indifference..

to human life.

Not a lawyer either, but this not only sickens me, It SCARES me. Are we raising a generation of sociopaths? These "kids" are NOT normal.

[mchill]

43. I feel the most affinity with your post

This is horrible. I will not look at the video, if there even is one, as it just feels horrible. And I cannot imagine all of his loved ones knowing he could have been helped. I usually feel this strongly about animal abuse and cannot watch, but it must be for anything that is helpless at the hands of other humans. Pure evil.

[whathehell]

54. Thank you..I am finding some of the other responses here

surprisingly cold and callous and I'm certainly not watching the film either, It's sickening.

Trust your feelings and hold onto your humanity.

[cwydro]

172. I'm with you.

And with sheshe. Glad there are those of us here who care.

[whathehell]

206. Thank you for saying..

Yes...I find the incident itself, and the lack of feeling surrounding it chilling. Like you, perhaps, I can't help but wonder how prevalent it may be becoming.

[sheshe2]

45. It will be the new tRump generation of sociopaths.

The blood runs cold in those kids. I did not expect them to jump in after him. I suppose they could have run in fear. Yet they all stood there toking on their joint and cold heartedly filmed it, while laughing and making jokes as a young man died screaming for help.

[whathehell]

49. In fairness, I can't blame this on Trump, but it does seems a relatively recent

level of depraved morality...Frightening.

[X_Digger]

120. There is no criminal statute for 'Depraved Indifference to human life.' FFS. n/t

[whathehell]

208. Then there should be..

and how about saving your "'ffs' annoyance for the acts themselves rather than our supposed lack of legal acumen?

Your callous indifference is appalling.

[X_Digger]

236. "There oughta be a law!"

Thanks for acknowledging that your responses (to multiple posters) is bullshit.

[whathehell]

277. Thanks for confirming your lack of concern for social responsibility

and human decency.

Ironically, that quote you think proves our responses to be "bullshit", actually just describes the basic reason laws are enacted: need.

Have a nice day.

[EL34x4]

27. Honestly, I was more outraged reading about the BART passenger yesterday...

...who was beaten to within an inch of his life for the sheer sport of it by marauding packs of youths.

I was more outraged reading about the pregnant mother shot to death during a carjacking last month in Texas.

There's plenty to be outraged about these days.

A career criminal who was just sprung from prison drowning in a retention pond? I'm not losing a whole lot of sleep.

[Archae]

41. I do have a few questions myself...

Things never brought up by the news media.

What was the guy doing in the pond in the first place?

Why nothing about his career as a violent criminal?

The teenagers in the OP were rather heartless, unless maybe the guy was killing himself?

[MrPurple]

57. I read that he'd just had a family fight and his fiancee had left him

He lived next door to the pond and may have gone in in a suicide attempt, then started regretting it as it was happening. Security camera footage showed him running into the pond.

[Archae]

63. Ah, thanks for the info.

So it looks like he was trying to kill himself.

Those kids should have at the very LEAST, called 911.

But as I said, they were probably too baked to even remember seeing the guy.

[MrPurple]

67. Having weed on them and maybe growing up in a gang environment, they weren't likely to call police

These kids are a product of their environment. The last thing they'd probably ever do is call the police.

[whathehell]

81. No excuse, and does NOT explain they're mocking & having "fun" with a dying man

They're psychopaths.

[Archae]

110. Agreed.

[cwydro]

131. Yes they are.

Amazing how posters are defending these scum.

[sheshe2]

203. Weed.

Growing up in a "Gang Environment"? Are you saying they are black?

You have investigated the situation and came up with this? How?

[sheshe2]

102. Well

They weren't to baked to video the whole thing, comment on it and hurl jibes and insults at a drowning man then laughing when he went down for the last time.

“They just laughed the whole time,” Cocoa Police Department spokeswoman Yvonne Martinez told Florida Today. “He was just screaming ... for someone to help him.” 
When Dunn finally disappeared under water, one of the teens said flatly, “Oh, he just died.” The remark sparked laughter in the group.

Then they weren't to baked to go home and post it on social media. No clue why you are defending the kids actions as being to baked to even remember seeing him as an excuse.

[mcar]

223. Suicide? "He was screaming for someone to help him."

And, WTF does it matter if the guy had a record? Did those teen sociopaths know that?

BTW, similar was said about Trayvon - he was suspended from school so somehow deserved to be murdered.

[LisaL]

238. That doesn't rule out suicide attempt.

Not unusual for a suicidal person to change their mind in the last minute.
Regardless of the motivation, from what has been reported, this man voluntarily went into the pond.

[mcar]

239. Regardless he was calling for help

[LisaL]

283. He voluntarily went into water. So nobody murdered him.

[mcar]

295. And i said that where, exactly?

[whathehell]

46. "A career criminal who was just sprung from prison...I'm not losing any sleep"

Way to miss the point -- Unless you think these people are 'discerning' about whose deaths they mock.

[sheshe2]

48. I have no clue why you would ever think to bring up his record...

of rather petty offenses to warrant your lack of concern about Jamel's death.

There's plenty to be outraged about these days.

A career criminal who was just sprung from prison drowning in a retention pond? I'm not losing a whole lot of sleep.

Good to know that you will not lose a whole lot of sleep over it. After all, he was just a criminal, right?

[Archae]

53. So why was he IN that pond?

No one so far answers...

[sheshe2]

58. The video is at the link...so is the rest of the story.

Viewer Warning!!!

[whathehell]

62. Yeah..Like those filming & mocking this death were just responding to

to the guy's lack of Good Citizenship, or something.

[Judi Lynn]

65. Whatever inspired you to decide you would post this man's mugshot, record?

Do you make decisions about who gets to live, who deserves to be rescued if in need, and who should die for the entire human race, or are you the one in charge of live and die decisions about African Americans?

As you grow older, you will notice there aren't that many sane people who will support your views. It's possible you may even grow to wonder if you've lost your "moral compass."

This man is dead. I most vehemently insist it's NEVER going to be my, or anyone else's place to publicly insist my view, or your view of his value is more important than his life itself.

[sheshe2]

68. +infinity.

Thank you Judi. The responses never cease to amaze me.

[Judi Lynn]

73. Same here, sheshe2. We both know progressives have never seen life that way. It doesn't happen. n/t

[sheshe2]

76. This just hurts my heart.

All of it, the mocking of his death and proclaiming him a thug and worthy of it.

Sigh

Thanks again, Judi.

[whathehell]

228. A need to rationalize his indifference?

Sounds about right to me.

[catbyte]

95. Since when did driving with a suspended license & other petty crap warrant the death penalty?

He looks like he had some serious, untreated mental issues. Man, you posting his rap sheet was cold.

[sheshe2]

105. Thank you, catbyte.

Agreed!

[EL34x4]

212. Petty crap? He served four years for aggravated assault.

So posting his rap sheet was cold? Why? Because it threw water on the whole "disabled man" angle to show that he was a violent criminal and perhaps not the most loved person in his neighborhood?

Did I say he deserved the death penalty? No, I did not. I will say that when you spend your adulthood hurting people, don't be surprised when nobody comes to help you in your time of need. It's called "karma".

Jeez... And all these sanctimonious replies and sad emojis from DU'ers who would cross the street to avoid Jamel "Money" Dunn if they saw him walking towards them...

[whathehell]

232. The indifference these soulless freaks showed this man had NOTHING to do with his record

and you know it..Stop trying g to avoid this very obvious fact.

[EL34x4]

235. How do you know that? How do you know they didn't know him?

How do you know they didn't know exactly who he was?

Sometimes bad things happen to bad people, a fact you seem to be trying to avoid.

[catbyte]

240. And what does any of that have to do with those little creeps delight at watching him drown?

Like he wasn't a saint somehow made it more okay that they mocked him as he drowned? I might cross the street to avoid him, but I wouldn't delight in watching him die either. Geeze, is everything so simple for you?

[lunasun]

165. where am I?

[cwydro]

177. Dang, I'm asking myself the same.

Is this DU?

[Swagman]

269. If you are ever unfortunate enough to encounter a dying person

you can always ask them for their CV & references before deciding to give aid.

[whathehell]

77. Yes, and public outrage is appropriate here.

public outrage can provoke the establishment of new laws.

[sharedvalues]

50. Just as with Zimmerman, the cops aren't trying to win

The prosecutor knows public opinion means the teens must be charged. So he chooses some random charges and/or doesn't really go all out at trial. Just as prosecutors did with Zimmerman.
Defendants get off, prosecutor retains tough on crime rep so he can run for office.

[COLGATE4]

86. Yep. You've got it.

[cwydro]

111. Really? nt

[COLGATE4]

142. Yes. There are no laws that have been violated.

[cwydro]

148. All good then.

All good.

Smh.

[X_Digger]

152. You seem to think that if one says, "no law has been broken" that that equates to..

"all good then".

Are you having a difficulty separating what is moral from what is legal?

[jberryhill]

157. Some people have no sense of morality

There are people who think "being a moral person" means "not breaking any laws".

It's a complete absence of any sense of personal morality which allows them to surrender what would normally be a conscience, to the decisions made by their state legislators.

It's scary, but surprisingly common. In their minds every "moral wrong" must correspond to a law.

[X_Digger]

167. "There oughta be a law!"

It scares me to think that there are people who base their morality on what is legal. That seems so.. not immature.. under-developed?

I can only imagine the abuses of the imagined / wanted laws. Utterly terrifying.

[cwydro]

211. Looks like I should have appended the sarcasm tag.

Didn't think it was needed. Silly me.

[whathehell]

234. Except those of human decency..

but let's not sweat the small stuff, right?

[COLGATE4]

241. You're confusing morality with legality.

[whathehell]

246. No...Although they often do go hand, this thread is about human decency AND legality

Not one OR the other.

[COLGATE4]

248. No. It's about whether these kids should be charged with a crime.

Decency has nothing to do with that question.

[whathehell]

275. By virtue of what?...Who or what decides that?

[COLGATE4]

280. By virtue of the fact that we are a nation of laws which we have

agreed upon for the common good. It is patently unfair and unjust to attempt to prosecute a person who has not violated any law.

[whathehell]

293. The fact that we are a "nation of laws" does not define the subject of this thread..

Sorry. Nice attempt at deflection, though.

[COLGATE4]

297. The subject of this thread was supposed charges to be brought against

the kids involved. That would have been a violation of their legal rights as well as a violation of state law. Fortunately that's all moot now.

[Demsrule86]

221. there are charges...depraved indifference comes to mind...I hope these little bastards

get as much time as possible.

[COLGATE4]

242. "Depraved indifference" is not a charge. It's an adjective used to define

a certain type of murder. Not applicable here.

[Oneironaut]

252. Agreed. This is wrong. Being a bad person isn't against the law.

What those kids did was immoral, but this is typical authoritarian overreach and misuse of laws. I don't want people arrested just because the public demands it. That becomes an atmosphere where witchhunts become the rule of law.

[elehhhhna]

6. One of the first rules of water rescue is not to swim out to a drowning person. They will climb you

So you drown first then they probably drown.

This was cruel and nasty but the teenagers bad judgment should not be illegal.

The take away imo is about the lack of mental health service.

[sheshe2]

10. Then why did the not call 911 immediately?

[EL34x4]

17. Probably because they wouldn't call 911 for any reason.

In some communities, the police are not the people you call when you need help. The police are not your friends.

[sheshe2]

69. Perhaps they were just underage, smoking pot as the link said...

and, oh wait committing a crime! Will you post their mug shots too?

[kcr]

92. Right, so you just leave and do nothing. That makes sense /sarcasm

Come on. I know it's the internet but can't you at least try?

[KWR65]

263. I won't call 911 for any reason. I don't want the police to come to me so they can find a criminal u

I fear my government for good reason and so should you.

[LittleBlue]

124. You'd have to be simple to believe that the police

would respond to a drowning man by showing up and shooting you. This is the kind of hyperbole that gets people killed.

They stood there and laughed as someone died. They are scum.

[Lee-Lee]

204. Ohh bullshit

People in all communities dial 911 for emergencies all day long, every day. Your fire and EMS actually run more calls per capita in just those kinds of neighborhoods than they do in most others.

There is no lack of people call fire, rescue and EMS in those communities.

Your post is nothing more than a continuation of the irresponsible fear mongering against police and a subtle attempt to somehow shift the blame away from these young men and to the police.

To underscore how off base your remark is, looking at the mans police record it's obvious he had many, many, many encounters with the police to include where he assaulted them and he didn't die from it. But the indefensible indifference of these little cretins left him dead from something that a timely call to 911 may hve changed into a survivable event, and those same cops you lain are "not your friend" would have done far more to try and rescue him than those young men did.

[LisaL]

231. I find it unlikely 911 could have gotten there in time even if they called.

Obviously they should have called 911, regardless.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

23. They were probably too stupid to remember the number

After all, they were dumb enough to video the event and I assume post it online.

[elehhhhna]

47. I didn't say they aren't assholes with undeveloped frontal cortex's, who know water rescue

[sharedvalues]

51. Is filming and laughing also a rule of water rescue?

[elehhhhna]

75. Yes, thanks, that's a very succinct and accurate recap of my post

[sharedvalues]

79. Ok, sorry. I was a lifeguard, I practiced water rescues

Though never had to do a live rescue, luckily. And I know the rule not to jump in (unless you're trained, have no other option, and ideally have flotation).


Agreed watching should not be criminalized. The public reaction is because of the laughing and taunting. Failure to make an effort to summon help is what they are guilty of, and this should be punishable.

[kcr]

104. It was a perfectly valid question

Because for one thing, jumping in isn't the only way to respond to or help a drowning person, and it is a fact that these kids simply took a video and mocked him and then left without telling anyone. The fact that they weren't supposed to jump in and help is not an explanation for their behavior.

[elehhhhna]

106. Are you looking for argument? An extended post on water safety?

Or having some kind of displaced anger thing?

I'm not justifying anybody's behavior here. I believe I called them assholes somewhere else in the thread.

[kcr]

107. Whoa... Backing away slowly n/t

[Achilleaze]

7. Behaving like Republicans

What the hell. With the Republican draft dodger in chief out in front as the Republican family values role model, we're going to see a lot more of little republican-style shitheads like this.

[whathehell]

66. Please..

Until I see one actually filming and LAUGHING at someone in the process of dying, I'm calling that a reach.

[malaise]

8. I just watched a report in this

I cannot believe what I heard and saw. Who produced these heartless animals?

They can't get the maximum sentence because they did not commit a crime. they are heartless scumbags.
They are evil scum.

[sheshe2]

12. Yes...

And when police interviewed them they just snickered. The people that raised them taught them no morals.

[VermontKevin]

14. Taught them no empathy.

Morals, possibly. But it's empathy that compels you to do the right thing, even when the rest of the crowd doesn't.

[sheshe2]

16. Thank you, Kevin.

Well said. Seems some people have just lost their moral compass if they had one to begin with.

[VermontKevin]

19. We use the word "rehabilitate." As if some people had been habilitated

in the first place and just kinda lost it, like luggage.

The fact is that not everyone had the benefit of being brought up in love and care and mindful raising. I look to the mistakes I made with my own children and am humbled.

This situation makes me feel very sad not just for the victim and his family, but for the children and their families. What a heavy burden for all to carry. I am angry at these children, but more than that, frustrated. They have been failed.

We have failed. I truly wonder if I am leaving a better world than what I found.

[whathehell]

42. Sociopaths No conscience

This is depraved indifference to human life..NOT normal.

[apkhgp]

25. Foresight

I think at some point in time, these teens, or any one of them will commit a serious crime. When you exhibit a lack of empathy like this then it is only a matter of time.

[malaise]

26. Agreed

but it may be all of them

[sheshe2]

38. The are most definately headed down the wrong road.

[thesquanderer]

55. re: "When you exhibit a lack of empathy like this then it is only a matter of time..."

...until you become president?

[apkhgp]

61. Mocking

People who were mad at President Obama for his policies.
People who were suspicious of Hillary Clinton for her emails.
People who wanted to get rid of Obamacare
People who just wanted Democrats out of office.

All of them said that type of behavior was alright.

[smirkymonkey]

82. These kids are sociopaths. They may not have done anything technically illegal, but it

won't be long before they do. Their heartless indifference toward this poor man is just sickening.

[lunamagica]

135. I agree. They are sociopaths. They have to be

[WinkyDink]

182. Yes, these witnesses are vile, evil, perhaps even sociopathic. But "legal" is not "technically

legal"; it is legal, period.

I can't understand why so many here cannot understand a simple fact of law.

Law is fact-based, not emotion-based.

[smirkymonkey]

189. Ok, so it's "legal". They are still sociopathic little fuckers.

They may be off the hook with the law, but I still think they should be beaten senseless for their cruelty. I know it won't happen, but the little punks deserve to have the shit kicked out of them.

[Solly Mack]

18. Does Florida not have a depraved indifference law?

[sheshe2]

20. If not they should have, Solly.

[Solly Mack]

28. This went well beyond not rendering aid. They mocked a victim while he died.

They videotaped the struggle and the death. They were laughing the entire time.

No one bothered to get help.

[marybourg]

31. Still not a crime. Just heinous behavior.

[Solly Mack]

33. Pity. Horrible kids. The kind of kids people would want to avoid.

[WinkyDink]

24. "Depraved indifference" would not apply here.

[Solly Mack]

29. OK

[marybourg]

32. "Depraved indifference" only applies when you've

committed a crime. It doesn't mean indifference to what's going on around you.

[Solly Mack]

34. OK

[jberryhill]

88. Can you identify any state which does?

You seem to have confused an element of other crimes as being some sort of independent crime.

"Depraved indifference to the lives of others" is not some sort of crime.

It will upgrade a homicide in certain instances.

For example, if by simple negligence, you kill someone, that's ordinarily among the lowest grades of homicide, sometimes called "manslaughter" in some jurisdictions. For example, you run a construction site, and did not use proper darters precautions, and someone was killed by a falling brick.

"Depraved indifference" is where you are tossing a brick from a freeway overpass, and randomly kill someone. That will generally be a notch above the type of thing above.

People on DU get their jollies from accidental deaths on a regular basis and call them "Darwin Awards". One need spend no more than a month here to see the same behavior on this forum. It's funny to many people here when people die.

[Solly Mack]

91. OK

Thanks.

[kcr]

114. It's called Duty to Rescue and some states have it.

Florida does not.

[Solly Mack]

115. Thank you.

[jberryhill]

137. Which states?

These statutes were mentioned previously on another thread.

They involve sexual offenses or violent crimes against children and a duty to teleport them.

Perhaps you might identify such a state.

[kcr]

169. Perhaps I could

I have no idea what was mentioned in another thread. Minnesota, Vermont and Rhode Island off the top of my head and I don't believe they are limited to sexual offenses. Google really is your friend.

[LisaL]

229. Even those states that have duty to rescue wouldn't demand a rescue if the rescue is dangerous for

the rescuer.
Trying to save someone who is drowning is dangerous. Many a persons have died attempting to save someone from drowning.

[whathehell]

227. "Florida does not" have it..

Gee, why am I not surprised?

[X_Digger]

126. "Depraved indifference" is not a crime. It's an adjective.

Like Unintentional, Aggravated, Grand, or Felony.

[Solly Mack]

129. Thank you.

[msongs]

21. jesus loves the little children nt

[WinkyDink]

22. There is no American law that requires a bystander to help or even seek help for

someone in distress.

Laws are not predicated on emotion, not even disgust or revulsion.

I will repeat myself: We have all recently seen Republican men LAUGH at the thoughts millions of Americans dying from the effects of the AHCA.

There is no extant law to punish THEM

[kcr]

123. Not true. Some states do require it. Just not Florida n/t

[jberryhill]

158. It would be helpful if you identified one

There are states, including Florida, which have a duty to report very specific things. The most common is sexual abuse of a child.

[WinkyDink]

214. Find one example of a prosecution.

[LisaL]

230. Nobody is going to require a rescue if this rescue is dangerous for the rescuer.

[marybourg]

30. Hey, it's Florida. They were standing

their ground.

[Iggo]

36. Hate to be them when they're eventually outed.

[sheshe2]

37. Yup...

[procon]

39. Its like a macabre scene from "Lord of the Flies". nt

[XRubicon]

44. Kitty Genovese (nt)

[X_Digger]

136. ... was not the situation that most think. See the wiki page for details. n/t

[XRubicon]

141. Really?

Do tell.

[X_Digger]

144. ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese

In 2015, Genovese's younger brother, Bill, said that the police were indeed summoned twice but did not respond because they believed it was a domestic dispute, and blamed The New York Times for faulty reporting.[5] Bill's 2015 film The Witness showed an interview with neighbor Sophia Farrar, who was around Kitty's age; Farrar said in the film that she ran down to the stairwell when she heard Kitty's screams and held her as she was dying.

After Moseley's death in 2016, The New York Times called their report "flawed", stating the article "grossly exaggerated the number of witnesses and what they had perceived".[3]

[XRubicon]

150. Read it again

"While there was no question that the attack occurred, and that some neighbors ignored cries for help,"

Maybe not 38...

[X_Digger]

153. Okaaay...

.. if you want to claim that the common narrative is that only *some* ignored her cries, then sure.. go with that.

[XRubicon]

155. If you want to ignore that at least one person did not help her

Yeah, go with that XDigger... you are on the right side of this...

[bucolic_frolic]

52. Empathy is not taught well anymore

[stevenleser]

70. How about instead of charging them, put their faces on every news media and all over the internet

with their names and what they did and this video.

[sheshe2]

74. That works for me Steve.

However, I really want to see the snickering smiles that they had on their faces when interviewed to be whipped off their faces as they are walked into court. Charges or not I want to see them humiliated as they humiliated Jamel in his death.

[lunamagica]

154. That's a great idea, and I hope that if nothing else, the charges will make their faces and

identities public.

[cwydro]

180. I so agree with this.

But I doubt these type kids can be shamed.

probably be a thrill for them to be famous/infamous.

[LisaL]

233. They are minors.

Usually when minors are accused of breaking the law, their identities are protected.

[treestar]

276. They put it on social media

Someone outside law enforcement knows who they are.

[delisen]

72. Clockwork Orange. Their only power was powerlessness,

and they exercised it by letting him drown.

Depraved Indifference to suffering also describes many legislators and a president, as well the the recent glut of voters who wanted to "send them a message" or "stir things up in D.C.

I wonder if any of the teenagers, if alone, would have at least called the police or tried to get help. I like to think that most of them would have. I think at least one of them would behave the same-alone or in the group.

[LAS14]

78. This is one of the most awful stories I have heard, maybe...

.... the most awful, in this age of daily awfulness. What can we do to turn our society around????

[George II]

99. This whole incident, and the rationalization of those "defending" those cruel beasts....

....is extremely disturbing.

How can anyone defend this stuff? Unbelievable.

[sheshe2]

109. Posting the drowned man's rap sheet was cold.

He was black....as the poster said a career criminal.

It is like what the media does when a black man is shot by PO. They call them thugs and then go on to show why they are. This man, Jamel, drowned as teens stood by and watched, taped and laughed.

Yes, unbelievable George.

[cwydro]

164. hey, it makes it all justified right?

Sheesh, this thread has really made me take note of certain people here.

I simply cannot imagine watching a person drown, despite his or her criminal history.

As I said downthread, I've saved animals when I've seen them in distress. It really never occurred to me that it was a "legal" issue lol. Yea, like the "law" guides my actions in this life. Yeah, no.

My father used to save spiders, wasps...you name it. As a child, he would tell me ..."Hey, they're just trying to make a living.".

[Starry Messenger]

298. Agreed.

[COLGATE4]

163. You're confusing pointing out that they broke no

law with 'defending them'. Pointing out that fact is not a defense of their actions.

[sheshe2]

173. They broke the law of humanity and decency.

You are the one defending the rule of law against decency.

Also as said above, he was not dead in the end of the video. He was in fact, see video and comments, dead when their video was done. Did you even watch it? They can in fact be held accountable. Go look for it above.

[WinkyDink]

213. Pointing out facts is not "defending" anything. Disregarding facts is, however, what Trump voters

do.

[COLGATE4]

245. I am defending the rule of law. And, your assertion to the

contrary they cannot and should not be held 'accountable' for conduct which broke no law.

[COLGATE4]

256. That may be true. My concern is with them being

charged with breaking a law which does not apply to the facts of the case.

[cwydro]

183. It makes me very sad.

I'm glad sheshe posted this, but holy crap, I've learned some things I wish I didn't.

[Me.]

132. Words Don't Suffice

Never Will

[sheshe2]

161. Agree

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

184. Your honor they did not have to rescue him

Simply make a 911 call with the cell phone THEY HAD.

[sheshe2]

186. Guess they were to busy filming his death to make the call.

[COLGATE4]

258. Said nobody

[Warpy]

185. While I think most of us would love an opportunity to slap some sense

into those little shits, charges aren't appropriate and they won't stick.

Slapping some sense into them, metaphorically one hopes, is the job of their parents, and I hope their parents are up to the job or those little brats will follow the man they laughed to death into the pokey.

[sheshe2]

187. I know there will probably be no charges.

However I want them front and forward walking into that courtroom. I want them humiliated and shamed. Sadly Warpy, we are for the most part the children of our parents and sadly some do not fall far from the tree. I doubt these kids do either. This has to be one of the worst things I read about, who some of us are today. This whole story hurts my heart.

[Warpy]

188. Dunno, I knew some callow shitheads in high school

who grew up to be real human beings with ethics and empathy and everything.

Face it, most males in their mid teens aren't worth all that much. If they live through it and grow up, they might be. Some can even outgrow shithead parents.

[jberryhill]

191. Lock 'em up!

The solution to most social problems is locking people up.

I can't believe I'm reading a comment like your story on DU.

DU is the place where we discuss how our moral inferiors should be punished, and the harsher the better.

[jberryhill]

196. Justice without hatred is an empty gesture

The objects of justice must be hated.

If you do not hate, you lack virtue.

You must hate and dehumanize others to gain virtue.

These little pie of filth must be punished in the harshest possible way.

Evaluation and counseling? No. That would only be coddling a 14 year old piece of filth.

They should be locked up. All of them. For the longest possible time. No one should try to figure out what led to this behavior.

We know what led to this behavior. They are filth. Their parents are filth. Their friends are all filth.

And the only way to deal with filth is to lock them up and throw away the key!

[SunSeeker]

197. You attack the OP for calling them filth, yet you yourself called them "monsters."

The kids are monsters, there is no question about that.

 https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9356874

[sheshe2]

198. Thank you my friend.

Deep breath. Sad to be attacked here on a thread where a young man died and there was a video made where teens just laughed as he sank for the last time...and did nothing.

[SunSeeker]

199. Love you she.

[sheshe2]

201. I love you too, SunSeeker.

For Jamel

[sheshe2]

200. Your friend that you were posting to?

They are gone. Mirt works quickly.

So filth is worse than you calling them monsters?

 https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9356874

Shall we replace monster in every sentence you said filth?

jberryhill
196. Justice without hatred is an empty gesture

The objects of justice must be hated.

If you do not hate, you lack virtue.

You must hate and dehumanize others to gain virtue.

These little pie of filth must be punished in the harshest possible way.

Evaluation and counseling? No. That would only be coddling a 14 year old piece of filth.

They should be locked up. All of them. For the longest possible time. No one should try to figure out what led to this behavior.

We know what led to this behavior. They are filth. Their parents are filth. Their friends are all filth.

And the only way to deal with filth is to lock them up and throw away the key!

To be clear. I never stated anything YOU posted. They are YOUR words not mine. I do not know why you are attacking me on words I NEVER SAID. You have been up and down this thread 30 times. Please just call it a night. You just railroaded a thread on a young man that drowned in front of 5 witnesses that laughed and jeered as he went down for the last time and they caught it all on video and cheered. Then went home to post it on social media never once notifying a soul. Not the authorities, not their parents. No one.

[HAB911]

219. Florida: No need to help anyone

and you can legally kill someone if standing your precious ground.

Florida, a Republican paradise

[COLGATE4]

247. A requirement to help someone in this context

is not only not the law in Florida but is in fact not the law in all the 50 states.

[maveric]

249. If they recorded it without sound, or the comments...

Would they still be charged?

[LisaL]

250. Since they are charged with failure to report death, presumably that wouldn't change

whether tape had sounds or not.

[NastyRiffraff]

251. I have slogged through this thread

and I'm absolutely appalled. People here, on a DEMOCRATIC board, focusing on legality. It's fine to bring that up in context, but the larger issue of what these kids did was the point of the OP.

A couple of people actually made it their MISSION to show off their (probably bogus) legal knowledge to make some sort of "point." What that is, who knows? Their superiority? Their "ability" to look at a horrible, sickening video and be able to coolly and calmly declare that there's no there, there?

Unbelievable.

[sheshe2]

261. I was rather appalled at the reaction here myself.

There was a cold calculation to what those boys did, then showed no remorse when interviewed by the police. They just snickered and smirked.

Thank you, NR.

[sdfernando]

253. I will not even attempt to find this video or watch it

Those sick and reprobate kids effectively made a snuff film....I'm sure appropriate charges either at the state or federal level can be found.....and civil charges from the family should be brought to make those bastards pay!

These people disgust me!

[LisaL]

255. As far as I can tell, you can't civilly (or criminally) charge a person for not

helping/rescuing someone.

[sdfernando]

257. But what about making a snuff film?

Creative prosocutorail thinking is what is needed here.

[X_Digger]

264. "Creative prosecutorial thinking" scares the ever-loving-shit out of me.

To think that I'd see such a concept encouraged on this site is.. disturbing.

[malaise]

265. Here's an update-Florida teenagers who filmed drowning death will not be charged

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/22/florida-teenagers-who-filmed-drowning-death-will-not-be-charged-over-failure-to-help
<snip>
Many countries, including Argentina, Brazil, France, Germany, Italy and Russia, do have laws requiring people to render aid, even if it means only summoning authorities. And violations in some countries can result in prison time.

But Florida’s law is hardly unique across the US, legal experts said.

“Generally, throughout the US, there is no duty to rescue,” said David Weinstein, a former federal prosecutor now in private practice. Still, he added: “It seems like common sense that those kids should have tried to help the guy instead of filming it.”

Some states, such as Nebraska, require most people – especially professionals – to report suspected child abuse or face possible misdemeanor charges, said attorney Jeffrey Lapin in Lincoln, Nebraska. He agreed the Florida teenagers committed no crime.

“While it is morally and ethically wrong, it is not illegal to not render aid or make extremely despicable comments,” Lapin said in an email Friday.

[sheshe2]

270. My heart is broken.

Some states, such as Nebraska, require most people – especially professionals – to report suspected child abuse or face possible misdemeanor charges, said attorney Jeffrey Lapin in Lincoln, Nebraska. He agreed the Florida teenagers committed no crime.

Reporting suspected child abuse is a far cry from video taping and laughing at a man as he dies.

Not saying the child abuse should not be reported.

[malaise]

272. As I wrote early one wonders who brought these people up

[Horse with no Name]

278. Instead of trying to legislate morality and women's choice

you'd think they would do simple stuff...like make it a law to render aid to someone who is dying.

[malaise]

279. They would have to clearly define 'render aid'

I would start with making it mandatory to call emergency services.
For example, saving a drowning person is complicated. I can swim and I would risk my life to save a child but not an adult, because in their panic they often take you under.

[LisaL]

282. What if you don't have a phone on you?

Would that mean you go to prison if you fail to call emergency services?
And making it mandatory for people to carry out water rescues is insane.
Many people have drowned trying to rescue someone from drowning. Making it a crime to not save someone would make people to risk their life and they could very well end up dead.

[Horse with no Name]

284. "render aid" can be defined simply as notification

a simple phone call for help.
If you don't have a phone, drive to get help.

Render aid does not mean (even for a healthcare provider) that you have to sacrifice injury to yourself.

But it does mean that you cannot film someone else dying and walk away.

[LisaL]

285. Not everybody drives.

Presumably this particular law (requiring to render raid) would apply to minors. A minor might not even have a driver's license.

[Horse with no Name]

287. I "get" what you are doing here

and I appreciate it.
As a healthcare professional, I do not stop at every accident that I see.
If I see others are there and seeking help, I drive by on my way.
However, if I am first on the scene, then I have an obligation to stop and render aid.
It doesn't mean I am going to enter a burning vehicle or a dangerous situation, it simply means I am going to notify the people who will do those things.
Of course, any such legislation would have to include exceptions for those who cannot, perhaps language of notification within your power or means.
While I totally get what you are saying....it is really sad that we have to even have a discussion of legislating people to do the right thing.

[LisaL]

289. Lets say 10 people witness an accident. One calls 911, the other 9 do not.

Would such a law make the other 9 guilty?

[Horse with no Name]

291. I'm not writing legislation here

but I would think that if notification was made, then that would fall under the same premise that allows me to drive by an accident and not stop.

[malaise]

286. Agreed - we have morons here who believe

posting video of dead people is OK without a thought for the relatives. Sometimes they aren't even sure if the person is dead. Bangs head.

I agree with you on 'render aid'.

[LisaL]

288. I don't believe it's o'key to post videos of dead people without a though for the relatives.

However, the laws requiring to rescue someone are of concern to me.
Should you dictate in a law for someone to risk their life to attempt a rescue?
I don't think so.
If you require calling 911, what happens if witness doesn't have a phone? Or access to a car to drive to get help? What would they be required to do in such a situation?

[malaise]

290. Who said that?

I can't speak for anyone but me and mine and if we saw someone in crisis, we would certainly try our best to get help.

I don't know how or why you're inferring that I said it should be a crime. I stated up front that there was no crime so they could not be charged.

I support 'render aid' legislation as long as it is carefully crafted.

[LisaL]

292. And if it's not "carefully" crafted it could make criminals out of a lot of people.

[Swagman]

268. some of the comments on here..

as so happens every now & then, make me wonder why I'm here.

Especially those who make reference to a dying man's possible criminal record.

[malaise]

271. Scary

but remember the racist bots are everywhere

[get the red out]

302. If these precious, beloved little innocent babies

Don't have to go to a big bad jail, which would be oh so unfair and sad for the little sweeties who just wanted FB likes and would never think of calling 911 because you can't expect them to stop laughing and filming long enough (social media just rocks, right?), then maybe the community will give them something different from the hugs, and kisses, and FB likes that they, and so many more, are certain they deserve!

[HockeyMom]

303. Man beating a child in Publix

What to do? People notified the Store Manager who called 911. Others called 911 themselves. I myself went to the Manager who told me he had already called and the police were no their way. Should customers have intervened to stop him? Store filled with Retirees, Snowbirds, Moms with their own young children? Elderly men and women were going to tackle a young, 6 ft., 200 lb. man? Besides which, how did anyone know he didn't have a gun? The only person who was close to his age and size was the Store Manager but he didn't attempt to rescue the child. Where was Store Security? Who knows, but something this was not part of their job.

We just kept trying to talk to him, buying time, keeping him there until police arrived. It was horrible to watch because he would laugh at us, and hit the boy again. However, even that was better than to let the man walk out of the store before police arrived, and who knows what would happen to that child then.

I understand the difference in situations. This was an actual crime being committed, but did we elderly customers have the duty to stop this man at the risk of ourselves being hurt? Did the Store Manager have the duty to rescue the child?

No, we did all we could do without causing harm to ourselves. We did about the only thing we could. Call 911.

[whathehell]

310. You did the right thing

but your inability to do more is not analogous to the behavior of the five .

Their case is clearly not just about a failure to call for help. It's as much or more about the sadism displayed in their mocking and "celebrating" the death of the victim.

[WinkyDink]

311. BESIDES THESE VERMIN, here is what I'm also shocked by:

DUers who have:

-admitted to watching the video;

-accused posters who are concerned that the law is followed, as opposed to recommending "Law, Schmaw---Let's have some 'creative prosecutorial conduct'," of being unfeeling sticklers, bad Democrats (if Democrats at all), and "defenders" of the two wretches;

-called for impossible-to-compose-and-enforce "Required Rescue/Call for Help" laws and, when shown possible scenarios where difficulties might arise, verbally shrug and say it can all be resolved;

-refused to acknowledge that not all bad, unethical, or even evil behaviors are actually illegal. See: Trump and the BSA.

-offered up irrelevant examples of when seeking aid IS legally required, such as by educational professionals (I was a teacher and counselor) in suspected child abuse situations, potential suicides, etc.

-failed to see that if no law has been broken, feel free to read that again, then "Lock them up!" is the brother under the skin to "Lock her up!"