Unless the Boy Scouts condemn Trump's speech, get your boys out before it's too late

[muriel_volestrangler]

Some family history: although I'm British, the closest relatives of mine that died in World War Two were German.

My grandmother's aunt married a German in the 1890s and went to live there, so their son ended up fighting on the other side from my grandfather in World War One. But the families got on fine after that war. Except that the next generation, born in the 1920s, was forced into the Hitler Youth in the 1930s. My grandmother's cousin and his wife would listen to BBC radio to get a truthful picture of affairs in the 1930s, but only after their sons had gone to bed - because they weren't sure who they might tell about it, and how it would be taken. The parents saw Hitler was dangerous for everyone, but the endless propaganda took hold of their boys.

When one of the sons came to visit England, about 1938, my grandmother made sure to take him to Disraeli's memorial, and describe him as "our first Jewish Prime Minister" (his family had converted to the Church of England, but he'd be counted as fully Jewish under Nuremberg race laws). But they didn't like or trust the boy, because the Hitler Youth had been filling his head with Nazi ideas. When the war started, my grandmother's cousin was called up again, despite being well into his 40s, and so were both his sons when they turned 18. All 3 died. The boys went to war willingly, the father reluctantly.

Militaristic youth movements really can damage growing children. They are impressionable, and if they're being taught to boo one party, it's not far from that to a general ideology of chauvinism and hate. The people in charge of the scouts have a dangerous weapon in their hands, and have to be held fully to account. Any sign of abuse of the influence the scouts have over your children means you need to remove them from a developing cult. Don't take the risk.

[Chasstev365]

1. 1000 % Agree!

[Left-over]

25. TOTALLY!!!!

[BASE]

2. Already done

[Foamfollower]

3. No more Twitler Youth popcorn for me.

[FakeNoose]

4. Thanks for this worthwhile advice

We need to be constantly vigilant especially where the children are concerned.

[Laxman]

5. No, Put Public Pressure On The Organization.....

to speak out. Learn the lesson of citizenship. Speak up. It is NOT a militaristic organization. They're not being "taught" to boo one party. If you have a kid in scouts you make sure they live what they have been taught, which is how to participate in a democracy. Citizenship in the Community, Citizenship in the Nation, Citizenship in the World are all parts of what they are actually taught. Familiarize yourself with what those badges require before you spout off about the Hitler Youth and cults. What Trump did was deplorable. What a citizen of a democracy does is speak out and take action. That's the lesson.

[muriel_volestrangler]

9. The BSA today is teaching the children to boo

They booed the Democrats, and so far, the leadership has said there was nothing wrong at all. It's not just Trump who is deplorable; it's the scout leadership, every hour they still support him. The only way you put pressure on them is by pulling your children out. That's the action you need to take.

(and yeah, they've had plenty of problems in the past - anti-LGBT; and they still won't allow atheists in. It's a highly dubious organisation already. This just shows they're moving into party politics)

[ananda]

11. Agree

It's a good idea to leave the Scouts and let 45
know this is not OK.

[Laxman]

13. They Are Not Teaching The Children To Boo....

I am the parent of two Eagle Scouts, one who at 18 when he received his award, was quite outspoken that he was an atheist. I have attended Eagle Scout ceremonies for openly gay scouts. As an elected official I counseled hundreds of kids on Citizenship in the Community and Citizenship in the Nation badges and the importance of standing up for what's right and being respectful of diversity of opinion are central concepts-that's what they are taught. If you pull your children out of the organization because of something Trump says that you disagree with, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy that it will be a monolithic organization of only those who agree with Trump. Plus by quitting what are you saying? I disagree so I'm out of here? That's a hell of a lesson. You show courage, you stand up and you fight to do what's right, not take your ball and go home. Parents have far more influence over their children than scouts. Anybody who booed did so because of what is taught in their homes not what is taught by BSA.

[FSogol]

20. +1. Completely agree. n/t

[tecelote]

21. 100%

[hueymahl]

29. Thank you.

I mean, the hatred being shown boy scouts is almost as obscene as Trump's speech.

[lark]

38. I disagree.

The BSA asked him there, they know what a criminal fraud he is and yet they still asked him there. They also put no restrictions on his speech and it was so inappropriate and yet they still clapped and cheered. Until they speak out, they are complicit and deserve all the scorn being heaped on them.

Hopefully they will speak out today, if not, well silence speaks volumes.

[hueymahl]

40. BSA is a non-political organization focused on youth

Not inviting shithead would have been a political statement and ignored 80 years of history and tradition. Making a statement condemning shithead would by definition be political and just suck them into the tar pit.

What happened is disgusting. I feel sorry for the Scouts and the position the mother-of-all-ass-pustules has put them in.

We should be directing our anger at him, not the Scouts.

[pangaia]

49. Refusing to let jim come would NOT have been political,

in my opinion. The man is s sick hateful fucking psychopath !

[onetexan]

79. totally agree

they could not have picked a worse speaker - a mysoginist & con man.

[geek tragedy]

61. bsa WAS a non-political organization. The jamboree was an exercise in mass political indoctrination

in favor of fascistic ethnonationalism.

The BSA 'leadership' have decided to bow before Tr*mp. They're now the Tr*mp Scouts of America.

ETTD.

[avebury]

81. The BSA Leadership invited Trump to speak. They would have had to

have been deaf, dumb and blind not to have been able to predict the outcome. Trump's speech was totally inappropriate for the audience he was addressing. For the boys to boo President Obama was totally inappropriate. It may be the practice of the BSA to invite the sitting President to address the Jamboree but their claim to be a non-political organization flies out the window the minute that they excuse the President's behavior. For the BSA Leadership not to acknowledge that Trump's speech was inappropriate is to find it acceptable. If you look at the BSA's FB and Twitter pages you would see that they are being totally hammered for what happened. The BSA will now reap what they sowed: the reduction in financial support from the community for their fund raising activities and families pulling their sons from or not allowing them to join the BSA.

In the aftermath of the incident, the Leadership of the BSA had a prime opportunity to teach the boys a lesson in behavior and the importance of adhering to the the BSA's beliefs. They chose not to.

[lark]

84. When good people don't stand up to the bad and criminal, it just condones the bad.

Their statement was totally insufficient. Drumpf is the one who is the criminal fraud, but they just put this in front of their boys as a role model and how many are nearer to being Trump Youth because of what happened? He's the threat to our country, not them, but they just increased his power so I am also angry at them.

[onetexan]

78. +1

they should have realized from past events where agent orange spoke at thst he'd use the occasion as an opp to spew his hatred and rant about anyone and anything standing in his way. They should never have allowed such a public figure who illicits such visceral and negative response from citizens if they are really nonpartisan. The impressionable young men and boys who joned scouting didnt join to get this kind of audience. Parents need to be much more vigilant and do research when it comes to deciding what activities/clubs they allow their l8ds to participate in.

[tymorial]

82. As an Eagle Scout myself

I agree. I cannot add to anything you wrote. I value my time in the scouts. Those years are some of my fondest memories. My dad and I sometimes talk about our summer camp weeks at Yawgoog in Rhode Island. Those weeks were some of the best times of my life...

[CottonBear]

14. I'm a liberal, atheist Democrat, a mom of a Cub Scout & a Den Leader.

Our pack does not discuss or condone political or religious speech or indoctrination at our meeting and activities. We are very non-denominational and no one questions or condemns anyone's religious faith or anyone's agnosticism/atheism or secular humanist views and beliefs.

We are chartered by and meet at a very left wing and progressive Presbyterian church.

I have been to many local and regional BSA events over the past two years. I have never heard any political discussion or promotion of any party, politician or elected official or any religious bigotry by my fellow scout leaders and parents.

I will be contacting the National BSA office regarding Trump's horrifically inappropriate speech to a gathering of children. The BSA should have known better than to invite Trump to speak.

My son hates Trump and I will shield him from knowing about this controversial event. He is already concerned about us losing my ACA and his Medicaid health insurance. A small child should not have to worry about such things.

[Laxman]

24. I Am A Liberal Atheist Democrat As Well....

and the parent of two very liberal Eagle Scouts. The BSA has already heard from me. I'm sure they will soon hear from both of the Eagle Scouts in my household. They're not going to like what they're going to hear. They're a couple of stand up young men with their own views of the world. I agree with your observations. Two boys who went through the local scouting program and never a hint of politics. In the 16 years my kids have been involved I've seen several openly gay young men reach the rank of Eagle Scout. You make you're own choice about what your son knows about-and certainly if he's still a Cub Scout he shouldn't be worrying about such things. However, teenagers....that's another story. Part of learning leadership is knowing when to stand up, show courage and speak out.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

18. This.

The Scouts are run locally, and there are many excellent troops out there. The national leadership was put in a shitty position, and while they are squirming now, this is not a call for a new youth brigade. To pretend it is is embarrassing. These kids were used, just as Trump uses all of his audiences -- whether they support him or not.

[LeftInTX]

22. I hope he is not invited again

I wouldn't be surprised if every president in recent history has spoken at a BSA jamboree.

I'm sure the other presidents prepared a speech that promotes the Scouts and not himself.

This speech was so inappropriate.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

23. The president is considered the honorary president of the BSA. The president's signature

appears on every Eagle Scout's certificate. It's tradition to be invited to the Jamboree. And yes, other presidents talked about Scouting.

[Blue Idaho]

47. Sorry - but no.

Only eight Presidents have spoken at the national Jamboree. So - it's not all that common. As an Eagle Scout I condem all parties involved. Obviously the President can't be trusted to give anything but his usual hate driven stump speech, but I also blame the Scouting leaders... what were they thinking? Finally, as a Scout I can say that their behavior was unacceptable at any age. They should know better. They were even warned ahead of Trump's speech how to act - and they failed.

The most we can hope for is a teachable moment but this Eagle Scout is done with Scouting. I told them so in a letter which included my Eagle badge and paperwork - earned in 1969. I have nothing good to say about Scouting - or Scouts anymore.

[WillowTree]

64. Only a few have actually spoken at the Jamboree, but the President is always invited.

Therefore, to not invite this President, no matter how much we might disagree with his politics and/of everything he stands for, would, indeed, be political.

[Blue Idaho]

72. Fine. Invite him.

But the leaders and the Scouts themselves need to hold themselves responsible for their actions. As an Eagle Scout I think I've earned the right to criticize the Scouts and leaders. One of the core values of Scouting is accepting personal responsibility. Even a Cub Scout knows enough to understand the Scout Laws which includes: "A Scout is Brave: A Scout can face danger even if he is afraid. He stands for what is right even if others laugh at him."

I'm sorry if I sound cold - but what I saw looked nothing like a Scout Jamboree. It looked a hell of a lot more like a Hitler Youth Rally.

[IronLionZion]

26. Yup, that's been my take on it too

Lots of parents were angered by what Trump did and it is not in any way normal.

Boy scouts are a mostly good organization and not partisan or political. I disagree with what the OP is implying.

[geek tragedy]

59. The organization has had poison injected into its bloodstream.

It's now a Tr*mpjugend corps.

He's the president of that organization, and every boy scout in the country is being told--explicitly and otherwise--that the pig-monkey man in the White House is a role model for their values.

They were most certainly taught to hate Democrats and love rightwing fascism yesterday. And a good number of the Trumpjugend were lustily signing onto the Tr*mp agenda.

[HAB911]

6. Urge the Girl Scouts to accept refugees

Link to tweet

[Paladin]

7. Withold all personal donations, and boycott corporate donors. (nt)

[workinclasszero]

8. Damn right!

Not one penny to the Hitler/Trump youth!!!

[NobodyHere]

56. You really think the Scouts are Hitler youth?

[workinclasszero]

57. Trump seems to think so

[NobodyHere]

60. And he's usually correct?

[procon]

10. How did the Boy Scouts become so Republicanized?

Like religious sects are frighteningly successful at twisting young minds, do they teach boys that Republicans are good and Democrats are bad? Has the GOP weaponized the Boy Scouts, turning them into their own version of a madrassa or a jesus camp?

Listening to their eager responses, it looks like the indoctrination of those boys is complete.
It probably shouldn't come as a surprise since Republicans have been pushing their ideology into local schools for decades, teaching impressionable youth their version of alt history, science, culture, and politics.

[hueymahl]

32. Where are you getting this from?

The scouts are hardly "Republicanized" and I challenge you to provide proof. And the orange dickhead taking advantage and corrupting a scout convention speech does not count. That garbage is on dickhead, not the scouts, not a bunch of 11-17 year old kids.

Each troop is lead by local leaders. Just like the rest of society, each troop has some leaders that lean conservative, and some that lean liberal. Most, I would venture, actively separate political activity from scout activity. Of the three local troops I am familiar with, that is the case - they are as far from political as possible.

[procon]

55. Um... did you watch the same video I did?

Did you miss the uniform boos directed at Obama from those thousands of kids? That doesn't happen by accident. When Trump asked the crowd if Obama ever come to a jamboree and those kids responded with sustained boos and jeers of a man who is, himself, a former scout and actually did deliver a uplifting broadcast message so as not to disrupt the jamboree with security protocols.

The Boy Scout leaders knew what would happen and they were worried enough and suspected that it could get very ugly, so they even posted a stern warning to the boys on the Jamboree’s blog; reminding them to be “friendly, courteous, and kind” and to refrain from chanting phrases like "build that wall" and “lock her up”.

http://www.summitbsa.org/details-presidential-visit-monday


They didn't warn the scouts not to cheer for Obama or clap for Clinton, they cautioned them not to go rogue as Republican fans. Despite the admonition, that did not prevent the scouts from applauding Trump’s partisan attacks, or chanting, “We love Trump!”, and even booing when he mentioned Hillary Clinton. Certainly Trump encouraged and even exploited those kids, but where did they all learn to make the same unified, rightwing responses?

[hunter]

50. In our community the Boy Scouts were targeted by the Latter Day Saints and conservative Catholics.

It was a strange alliance.

Many Scout leaders were publicly supporting California's Proposition 8 in their churches, dragging their children along with them. These leaders had difficulties observing the boundaries that are supposed to make scouting a welcoming place for all boys.

Overall, the Catholic Church in our community is liberal, active in the Sanctuary movement, anti-war, and not the kind of place where you hear right wing rants taken straight from talk radio. (My parents used to live in a place like that... it was horrible. I'm certain Pope Francis is upsetting them, and therefore they are ignoring him, just as they ignore so many other things Christ stood for.) The conservatives in our church often feel excluded, so they form their own groups, seek leadership positions in groups like the Boy Scouts, or form political alliances with other religious groups, especially those opposing gay marriage or abortion. They are regularly scolded, sometimes in homily in front of everyone, and then they'll lay low for awhile, but they always ooze back up like right wing trolls on Democratic Underground.

I have no idea what's going on with the Boy Scouts lately in our community, not since my kids have grown up and moved away.

[Raster]

75. Born and raised in the mormon church and a church-sponsored scout...

...that is, until the church and I parted company.

While I can somewhat agree with the posters that say "don't blame the scouts," I must add that the scout troops sponsored by the mormon church are as conservative as can be, and the national scouting organization just loves that sweet bigot money flowing in from the mormon church. And make no mistake, you better tow their line or you don't get the goods. Scouting SHOULD BE a neutral, non-partisan place for youth, but note: if you're atheist, you are not welcome. My experience with scouting: anything but neutral and non-partisan.

[NobodyHere]

63. Liberals on this board are comparing them to Hitler Youth

You seem to think they are all brainwashed. Boy Scouts certainly aren't welcome on the left.

[procon]

65. About that... you know this is DU and we Democrats are a pretty liberal bunch, yeah?

Did you forget where you are? And why would you make a clearly unsubstantiated declaration like that when the forum is filled with posts today that begin, "I was a Boy Scout..."?

Please stop.

[procon]

67. "Conservatives are more friendly"? So you drop into DU for a little S&M?

Did you think Trunk was just being "friendly" when he was on that stage bashing Obama and Clinton? Look, it's not a matter of being "friendly", it's about ethical behavior, personal integrity and the strength of character needed to do the right thing.

[NobodyHere]

70. I meant towards the Boy Scouts

[procon]

71. How so?

It this merely your personal opinion, or are you alluding to some evidence that points to a concerted effort on the part of Dems to quash scouting?

[muriel_volestrangler]

69. Scouts were booing President Obama and Secretary Clinton, and chanting "USA!" over the repeal

of Obamacare. It was a gross demonstration of partisan hatred, and unthinking support of a bigoted conman. The Conservatives aren't "friendly"; they just manipulate the scouts well. But too many of that crowd were willing partisans yesterday.

[Raster]

76. "liberals on this board..."

perhaps you forget where you are at.

[barbtries]

12. well put.

country's going to hell in a handbasket.

[CCExile]

48. A handbasket...

Made in China in a factory funded by the Russians!

[mountain grammy]

15. I had a good friend in college (a Republican)

who felt the BSA was way too militarized. That was in the 60's, and it was the first time I heard that view, so I began to pay attention. As I raised my sons, I was glad the issue never came up.. neither one was interested. Maybe because their Jewish grandmother's influence gave them an aversion to kids in brown shirts.

[IronLionZion]

16. Trump is an asshat, but that's not the fault of the boy scouts

Boy scouts teach boys about the outdoors, environmental conservation, arts and crafts, camping, and lots of good citizenship stuff like community service . Many parents were angered by Trump's speech and understand it was inappropriate and goes against tradition.

Trump has given idiotic bullying partisan speeches everywhere. It's what he does. That doesn't make the organizations into militaristic movements like the Hitler Youth.

[hueymahl]

34. Thank you.

Lay off the Scouts, everyone.

[L. Coyote]

17. Brown Shirts of America isn't what we need. What's next, Trump Youth?

Link to tweet

[Not Ruth]

80. Now that I slept on it, it seems even worse today

Brown Shirts is an accurate description.

[trotsky]

19. My son couldn't join anyway.

Atheists still aren't welcome.

[earthshine]

52. The last line in the "scout law" is a "scout is reverent."

It was founded in the early 20th century as a quasi premilitary religious institution.

I was an avid boy scout and I got a lot of it. I made it to Star Scout at 15, then I discovered the proverbial sex, drugs, and rock and roll.

They used to give me shit about the atheism. But, ultimately, as long as was "reverent" about something (in my case, the universe as a whole), it was okay with them.

None of the leaders were especially religious.

[NastyRiffraff]

27. The boys were instructed beforehand:

Ahead of President Trump’s appearance Monday at the National Scout Jamboree in West Virginia, the troops were offered some advice on the gathering’s official blog: Fully hydrate. Be “courteous” and “kind.” And avoid the kind of divisive chants heard during the 2016 campaign such as “build the wall” and “lock her up.”
Washington Post

Like any organization, the Boy Scouts have both good and bad leaders who are locally based, not centralized. It appears these boys were specifically warned not to treat this as a Trump rally. It was Trump who turned it into a rally for him. He's obsessed with crowd size and adoration. I hope the Scout organization comes out with a statement condemning Trump's actions.

[hueymahl]

36. Thank you

The anger against the scouts is misdirected. And while I would hope on one level that they would issue a statement condemning Trump's speech, I'm afraid all that would do is further politicize this great organization that is fundamentally non-political.

[muriel_volestrangler]

39. "Hoping on one level" is not good enough. It has to be demanded of them

They've already issued a statement - and it does nothing to criticise Trump at all. It just says "we're non-partisan; the US president is our honorary president; we always invite the president to speak". https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029368811

They've just allowed him to politicise the movement, without any objection. They haven't criticised him in any way; they didn't criticise the scouts who booed the ex-president (of the USA and, honorary, of the scouts) Obama. They didn't criticise the booing of Hillary Clinton .

This is why people are angry. Allowing Trump to politicise the scouts, then to stand back and let the scout leadership fall into line behind him, is pathetic. The scouts are no longer non-political. You can fight that, or give in.

[NastyRiffraff]

28. The boys were instructed beforehand:

Ahead of President Trump’s appearance Monday at the National Scout Jamboree in West Virginia, the troops were offered some advice on the gathering’s official blog: Fully hydrate. Be “courteous” and “kind.” And avoid the kind of divisive chants heard during the 2016 campaign such as “build the wall” and “lock her up.”
Washington Post

Like any organization, the Boy Scouts have both good and bad leaders who are locally based, not centralized. It appears these boys were specifically warned not to treat this as a Trump rally. It was Trump who turned it into a rally for him. He's obsessed with crowd size and adoration. I hope the Scout organization comes out with a statement condemning Trump's actions.

[SunSeeker]

31. BSA knew what they were allowing in their midst.

If they wanted to "avoid" a 2016 Trump rally, they should have avoided Trump.

Rather than preventing chants of "locker her up," their statement actually suggested it. Why didn't they list a Clinton chant to avoid, like "love trumps hate"? Why were the only chants listed as examples from the 2016 campaign Trump chants?

[NastyRiffraff]

35. I agree that not inviting him would be the best solution

but that's not easy. Any U.S. president is by definition an honorary president of the organization during his or her term in office. I do think they should have made a statement in pointedly NOT inviting Trump, but it's very unlikely that would have gotten full support from the leadership.

[SunSeeker]

43. I get that you can't rebuff a sitting POTUS, but the BSA statement made matters worse.

Like I said above, they actually invited the Hillary booing. They should have issued a statement, to the Scouts AND Trump, that pointedly states that the BSA is not a political organization and that representations of support or opposition to a particular candidate or particular political party will NOT be tolerated. As in, we'll turn off the mic. That "avoid" crap was worse than worthless.

[muriel_volestrangler]

41. So, that failed. What is the leadership going to do to fix the behaviour?

They need to point out the many scouts who booed were neither courteous nor kind. Yes, Trump is primarily to blame, but many members of that audience need teaching too.

[NastyRiffraff]

42. It could actually be used as a teachable moment

for the boys in the audience, telling them that their behavior was not acceptable, and that if someone tells you to do something wrong, no matter how rich and/or powerful that person may be, to do the honorable thing and resist.

[SunSeeker]

44. That would be awesome. But I won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen. nt

[NastyRiffraff]

46. Neither will I :(

Especially after their weak statement they finally issued. The BSA is non-partisan and it's a tradition to invite a U.S. president to the event. We already KNEW that. They needed to strongly condemn what Trump did.

[rickford66]

30. I was in the Boy Scouts around 1958-1960.

First troop in our Catholic Church was mostly marching and drilling like boot camp. Counselor stole half our food on the only hike we did. Where's the camping I kept wondering. Left for a different troop at a Presbyterian Church (where coincidentally I got married in much later of course). This troop, again no camping, but forced boxing matches during meetings. All over a period of three years so I quit. It was more fun hanging around outside the Girl Scout meetings, waiting for them to come out.

[byronius]

33. This would never have happened with the Girl Scouts.

Wholly different organization. I don't imagine they would have let him up on stage for any reason, but if he had been, he would have been met by abject silence.

[IronLionZion]

37. I doubt any girls organization would allow him to speak

since he would tell them to learn their place and stop being so uppity

[aikoaiko]

45. The Jamboree booing was terrible, but I do not recommend this action.

The BSA have always leaned toward conservative value, but also stewardship and helpfulness toward others.

Your massive leap from booing to Hitler Youth is even more outrageous than the booing.

[Still In Wisconsin]

51. Since the Boy Scouts want to be the new Hitler Youth, they should be treated as such.

I understand that the Boy Scouts have always leaned somewhat conservative, at least in the social sense. But THIS (and apparently the BSA is just fine with it) was beyond inappropriate.

BSA= new Hitler Youth. I hope this destroys the entire organization.

[dchill]

53. K&R.

[NobodyHere]

54. I'm guessing you were never in the Scouts

[muriel_volestrangler]

62. True. After the cousins' experience, I suspect my family weren't that keen anyway.

But the point is that the scouts have never shown such partisan behaviour. Until now. And the leadership's first reaction has been to turn a blind eye to scouts booing prominent Americans, and chanting "USA! USA!" when Trump said he wants to kill Obamacare: https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029368328

The past behaviour of scouts, and the leadership, is not the problem; it's what happened yesterday, and what they do from now on that counts. At the moment, they're sliding into chauvinism and party political hatred.

[politicat]

58. I have some respect for individual councils, but BSA has been a problem for years.

I grew up in Girl Scouting, and my council shared a building and equipment with the boys. We had some division of labor for service projects between the two groups -- the older boys had a standing grounds and landscape project; the older girls were responsible for the inventory and maintenance of the shared equipment. (Basically, the boys mowed the lawn, pulled the weeds and clipped the shrubs; we kept the tents, sleeping bags, and kits in good order. Yes, there was definitely some sexism in that division of labor... but it was the 80s, in Arizona, and I think the girls got the better deal -- we learned everything from wood-working to metalsmithing in the process, while the boys learned how to haul rocks.) Let's just say that as a Junior (4th - 6th grade) I realized that the "clean" part of the Boy Scout oath was aspirational at best. And respectful needed improvement. (Also, the boys, at that age, were right little trolls, but that's more a function of age and the time. Adolescent boys in groups can be fairly monstrous.)

We had very little contact with a certain subset of the Boy Scouts, though -- the LDS sponsored troops were almost never in the building or participating in the group projects. They would use and mostly return equipment (though a lot went missing or came back trashed) but other than that, they weren't part of the shared community. There were very few LDS Girl Scouts -- the LDS has an internal organization called Young Women's. Girl Scouting teaches way too much independence and encourages too much inquisitiveness.

My GS troops spent a lot of time in the Northern Arizona national parks and forests, and I picked up a tell with the rangers. When we came through, the rangers were fine with us -- gave us good information, checked our walkie batteries, channel, and signal, and let us go. They did the same with our non-LDS BS peers, too. But if an LDS pack was in the area, the rangers were all over them. They'd check on them hourly, or assign a ranger to go with them. At first, I thought it was a preference for those groups, but over time, I realized it was all about crisis management -- if they let the LDS packs off leash, they'd likely be doing a search and rescue, or doing a cleanup afterwards. The rangers didn't trust the LDS packs at all.

Somewhere between 1/4 and 1/3 of all BS packs are LDS, and the LDS have been the strongest opponents to open participation for non-theist kids and leaders, non-binary kids and leaders and gay and bisexual kids and leaders. They've been the least open to inclusive troops, which means that the BSA, as a whole, tends to have far more segregated troops than GSA. This has not been the case for Girl Scouts at all. The culture of the LDS moiety is such that they have no problems with politicizing the young men and excluding those they don't want. But because the LDS troops are such a large fraction of the whole membership, the BSA national leadership tends to skew towards aligning with the LDS preferences.

I recognize there are great Scouting leaders who are appalled by yesterday's events. But BSA has not stepped up to challenge their moiety of racist, sexist, intolerant, homophobic and reactionary members. The National organization has been falling behind the curve for decades.

I hope the Scouts who deplore yesterday's events and today's wishy-washy, cowardly non-statement will pull their memberships and join Scouting4All.

[Raster]

77. You speak truth... I was an LDS scout... it is a different world...

...You are scouts, yes, but first and foremost, you are akin to little soldiers for the church. You are effectively thought-managed in LDS groupthink. There is no room for exploration or questioning.

[alarimer]

68. I've never liked any of the scouting organizations

Too much "God and country" bullshit for me. A little too similar to Hitler Youth for my taste and, of course, BSA is bigoted, not sure about Girl Scouts.

I say this as someone kicked out of Brownies for skipping too many times (what can I say, I expected to do more than learn to cook or sew. It was just girly bullshit to me, no camping, no fires, nothing good.)

[tazkcmo]

73. I was a scout

Got my vacuuming badge, dusting badge, lawn mowing badge and dish washing badge all in my first and last two weeks. No politics. No religion. No indoctrination. Just cleaning the "den".

[ThoughtCriminal]

74. Tomorrow Belongs to Me

[Langkous]

83. Follow the MONEY

Randall L. Stephenson
CEO of AT&T
Randall Lynn Stephenson is an American telecommunications executive. He is the current chairman, chief executive officer and President of AT&T Inc since May 9, 2007. He is also the 36th National President of the Boy Scouts of America, serving since 2016.
Wikipedia

Called yesterday and disconnected my wireless service until Randall Stephenson stands up to Bully Trump

Hope they recorded my call for quality assurances.