Do people on DU realize this is a vote to move the bill to debate??

[titaniumsalute]

I wanted this to move forward to debate. Get it into the open. I don't think it will pass the Senate in the long run.

[Beaverhausen]

1. Really? You don't? What makes you think anyone voted YES today that won't vote for the bill

these motherfuckers don't change. Ever.

They march in lockstep.

FUCK

THEM

[bearsfootball516]

12. There's a big difference

Between voting to open up debate, and voting to pass the bill. I'm hopeful that some of these moderates who voted yes, did so because they're hoping to improve the bill in debate. If not, they'll vote no on the actual bill.

[Beaverhausen]

18. I have lived through too much disappointment with the GOP in the past

They don't change. They are hateful, evil people. They will pass the bill. Mark my words.

[Jimbo101]

55. Seconded !

[bigbrother05]

71. Those moderates will hold out for a nugget for their state

They'll get some small crumb that counts for one of their monied backers then declare they stuck up for their constituents and vote for this vile piece of crap.

Nothing useful to the average citizen will survive.

They will pat themselves on the back for showing those shiftless, sickly parasites who's in charge! There is another ring of Hell under construction for this administration and their believers.

[ollie10]

96. The "moderates" knew what was at stake

It would have been far easier to vote no today than to vote no later.

They probably will cave then too.

Please contact them. Last chance.

[Ms. Toad]

103. And that's precisely the problem.

Improving gas chambers does not change the fact that they are still fundamentally gas chambers. I don't want gas chambers, so permitting debate about wheher the gas chambers should have curtains or not is nonsensical.

[kacekwl]

108. Bullshit, the only way to "improve" the bill is to keep and repair Obamacare.

You think they will vote for that ?

[Skittles]

109. it's just a tactic

but if anything changes in the bill, it will get worse

repukes have already shown they don't give a fuck about healthcare, they just need more time

[TBA]

2. I hope you are correct.

Even so.. I'm having a hard time feeling sympathetic toward John McCain.

[still_one]

17. I have apathy toward the asshole. He has always been a hard right jerk

[SHRED]

3. Let's all celebrate!

[fleur-de-lisa]

4. Yes, we do.

I really wanted Chump to have another EPIC FAIL, especially when he's in the middle of a meltdown over the Russia investigation.

[BeyondGeography]

5. Apparently many here do not

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/25/us/politics/health-care-senate-vote.html?smprod=nytcore-ipad&smid=nytcore-ipad-share

But that doesn’t mean a bill will ultimately pass. Mr. Heller warned, “If the final product isn’t improved for the state of Nevada, then I will not vote for it."

[COLGATE4]

80. Heller is just holding out for another cheap bribe

from McTurtle. His vote's in the bag.

[BeyondGeography]

94. Don't be so sure

He's tight with Sandoval who is both a very popular Republican governor and opposed to any rollback of NV's Medicaid expansion under ACA.

[ollie10]

98. I could tell by heller's body language when he was beside trump.....

This guy is a yes

[Weekend Warrior]

6. I understand that.

I also understand that it would have been big had they not even been able to move it forward. They have no favor among the left. Blocking this would have increased their disfavor from the right. That is always a good thing.

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

7. It gives trump and trash crowing time

Fox, rw media

Look!! A squirrel!

[mcar]

8. People realize this

We are one step closer to people dying. McConnell will now be able to twist the rules to get something passed.

[SHRED]

9. Then why did every single Democrat vote against?

[BeyondGeography]

23. Why would they vote to move a process from which they've been excluded forward?

[SHRED]

27. I was addressing the OP

[Hekate]

74. You do know we ALL can see your post

[SHRED]

93. Others understood my response

What's unclear in my response to the OP?

[leftstreet]

24. +1

[Beaverhausen]

43. Exactly! If debate was a good idea the dems would have voted Yes

Why don't others see this?

[obamanut2012]

10. I do, and it shouldn't have even reached this

It will pass.

[MichMary]

11. Shhhhhhhh

Don't kill the outrage.

Debate is healthy. The ACA (in total) isn't working. We need a different solution--one that works for everyone. This is an opportunity for BOTH parties to work together to come up with that solution.

[Girard442]

19. This is like trading in your family pet that has some issues for a box of rattlesnakes.

[MichMary]

39. For many of us,

the ACA is a rattlesnake.

[LexVegas]

49. "the ACA is a rattlesnake."

[Girard442]

52. You sound like someone who'd stomp off an airliner if you weren't properly served...in flight.

[flamingdem]

57. +1

[Hekate]

72. What did you have before ACA? What did your state's governor do with the ACA? Tell us why...

...the ACA is poisonous to you.

DUers might have some helpful suggestions.

One of our members, now on hiatus and blogging elsewhere, called President Obama a POSUCS in a particularly colorful rant, but it turned out he had neither checked into his new state's management of the plan before moving nor had he read the text of the plan he signed up for nor had he researched the formulary for his wife's medications.

Dozens of people tried to help sort this out. The group had been able to help others, though not so much that time. It is really complicated, and it is by no means perfect. We all know that. But navigating it should still be an improvement over nothing -- or at least I hope so.

[MichMary]

79. Group insurance

Dh is planning to retire later this year, so we got a quote from an agent. We have a "choice" of two plans, one of which covers one of my out-of-state docs, the other of which covers neither. We will go with the one that covers one, and pay out-of-pocket to see the other.

Premium quoted was $1700.00 per month. (Silver plan.) Deductible is $9000.00 family. (Just the two of us.)

I live in rural Michigan. I have no idea what Rick Snyder did. Not that it matters. We don't qualify for Medicaid, and we don't qualify for a subsidy.

Glad that it covers pre-existing, because otherwise it would have been a retirement deal-breaker.

Dh will be eligible for Medicare 1.5 years after he retires, and I will qualify 1.5 years after that, so, this is--do-able. Not great, but do-able, short-term.

[COLGATE4]

82. Are you sure you're posting on the right site?

[MichMary]

86. No room for disagreement?

Even based on personal experience? I'll have to remember that.

[COLGATE4]

91. There are those of us who have not been helped by the ACA

that still recognize how much it helped millions of our fellow citizens. And for any one expecting a republican version of it to be better in any way, I've got some beautiful water-access (e.g. swamp) land in Florida to sell you.

[standingtall]

25. Please there is nothing healthy about this

[MichMary]

30. Are you paying

$1700/month in premium? Do you have a $9000 family deductible? Did you lose your doc? How many plans can you choose from?

[disenfranchised]

53. Sadly, after the Republicans are done with this process, that premium will probably seem low...

Especially for someone that has a pre-existing condition

[lapfog_1]

61. And not a single proposal from the repukes

is going to lower those premiums or lower the deductible UNLESS you also get a "nothing burger" plan (sniffle care) that will then bankrupt you when you have a serious medical issue (or rather, it won't cover it... and you will be on your own).

So we start with a debate that repeals the ACA, and now the debate will be is it 30M or 20M or 15M that lose their coverage and their subsidies (but they get TAX BREAKS!!! yeah!!! )

The ACA was/is working in states that set up exchanges and expanded medicaid.

Yes, there were "losers" with the ACA. Single payer is the only real option that covers everyone. But the oligarchy in this country does NOT want to pay for single payer.

Any repeal and replace is ONLY about giving the .1% a huge tax break.

[DBoon]

85. Were you completely uninsurable before ACA?

If you were, no amount of money would buy you insurance

[MichMary]

92. True

But I have been under a group plan. The ACA means that dh could retire 3 years earlier than he would have. (That's when I would have been eligible for Medicare.) So, glad for that. The pre-existing exemption is not likely to go away. There are waaaaaaaay too many people who like that. Also, keeping adult children on the plan til age 26. But, we do need much more choice, lower premiums, and lower deductibles. Premiums are just way too high.

[Drunken Irishman]

29. Debate is NOT healthy when it's only one side debating.

lol you're up in the night if you feel as if Democrats are going to have any input in this one. It'll be Republican dominated and they'll pass THEIR bill with everything THEY want and not a bit of what the Democrats feel is necessary. To move this to debate, Democrats lost their best chance to kill this bill. The ACA is dead.

[MichMary]

33. Yes, they will have input

because the R's are not united in this. Lots of them have indicated that they will not vote for straight out repeal. They are going to be begging for help, for allies. There will be compromise.

[Drunken Irishman]

41. No they won't. They didn't in the House. They won't in the Senate.

[Drunken Irishman]

47. Me too. Picked up on it when they said the ACA wasn't working.

And we needed to come together to fix it!

Uh huh.

[MichMary]

65. That's what it is going to take

Compromise. Like it or not.

I have had experience with the ACA, first with my son who lost his BC/BS plan because it wasn't ACA-compliant. (He never used it. Then it was replaced with a plan that cost three times as much, which he also never used. But the insurance company was glad to take our $$$$!) Now with my dh planning to retire, we have gotten a quote on a silver plan with an exorbitant premium, high deductible, and I will have to find another doc. So, yeah, the ACA may have worked for some, but it didn't work for us.

[MichMary]

62. So there's no room for disagreement

on whether the ACA is working for us personally?

[Old Vet]

59. Are you fucking serious, Republicans compromise, Pass me the shit youre smoking......

[Blue_Tires]

34. It's not working because the GOP has been picking at it

for 7 years...

[Beaverhausen]

35. Are you under the impression they will 'fix' it and make it more affordable?

are you high?

These fuckers clearly won't work with the Dems to fix the ACA, which is really the only way it can be fixed.

But they won't do it.

[MichMary]

37. They still have to answer

to their constituents. Whose going to vote for any Rep or Senator that makes things worse?

[Beaverhausen]

38. They answer their corporate overlords. They don't give one whit about their constituents

sorry but you are seriously deluded. It's the Koch Brothers they care about. No one else.

[MichMary]

42. For all their $$$

the Kochs are only two votes. Look at how many of the establishment R's have been taken out because they didn't vote the way their constituents wanted them to. $$=/=votes.

[Beaverhausen]

45. Were you around when they 'debated' gun control?

You know, after twenty 6 year olds were gunned down? Yeah, they debated, and the large majority of americans wanted some controls put into place. But the GOP as usual, voted with the NRA and KOCHs and against their constituents wishes. It's what they do.

[Iggo]

75. They vote for them all the time.

[MichMary]

84. Have you noticed how many

of the establishment guys have lost their seats because the voters were unhappy with them? Cantor ring a bell?

[Iggo]

104. That's one. (n/t)

[MichMary]

105. This article

talks about the "Tea Party" candidates who won, often over establishment candidates. It includes Rand Paul, Mike Lee, Richard Lugar, and others. Also, Scott Brown, who got TP support for Kennedy's seat, lost TP support, and ultimately was replaced by Elizabeth Warren.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_history_of_the_Tea_Party_movement

[TexasBushwhacker]

78. They vote for them at every election! N/t

[Old Vet]

60. +1000

[demmiblue]

63. ...

Back atcha.

[Bradshaw3]

64. What debate?

Has there been with this process? Why would you expect it in the future? Why would anyone expect the repubs to work with Dems on healthcare? The ACA is a rattlesnake? It saved my life. The people showing outrage to this vote aren't the naive or uninformed ones. A procedural vote is usually an indicator that the bill will ultimately pass, in some form that will destroy a system that has saved countless live, including mine. The rattlesnakes are the ones who oppose the ACA.

[MichMary]

67. It doesn't work for everyone

Maybe nothing would, but why should I support a plan that has been so bad for me personally?

The actual bill will come up sometime in the future (next week?) There will be amendments, and the bill as it stands will not pass. Murkowski won't vote for it. Collins won't vote for it. Capito won't vote for it. McCain won't vote for it. Probably a LOT of others won't either.

Discussion won't hurt, that's for sure.

[Bradshaw3]

76. As I wrote: what discussion?

None of the questions i posed were answered, so I should have expected this. How do you KNOW those senators will vote no on a bill that destroys the ACA? Answer is you don't. So they change it a little and that makes it ok to throw miliions off Medicaid and skyrocket premiums, etc. for those on the ACA - all because they "changed" it somewhat form its current form.

And the ACA has hurt you so it is OK for you to see millions suffer? Higher taxes hurt Warren Buffet but he is for them. As I said, the ACA saved my life. But it hurt you financially so let's get rid of it, or let the repubs "fix" it? I think you are on the wrong forum.

[DBoon]

90. You should support a plan bad for you personally

Because for everyone like you there are five people with health care who did not have it before ACA

[MichMary]

95. And yet we accuse

working class voter of voting against their own best interests.

Medicaid expansion worked. High premiums/co-pays/deductibles left a lot of people worse off than when they could keep their $$ and take their chances with healthcare.

I believe everyone should have healthcare, but a lot of people were paying the premium and then not getting care when they needed it because it would cost so much out-of-pocket to use.

[BumRushDaShow]

100. "Discussion won't hurt, that's for sure."

"Discussion" is done in HEARINGS. NOT on the floor of the House or Senate, where they don't even have a valid markup of legislation outside of crossing out all of the funding mechanisms and then penciling in pork for certain Senators to get them to vote to repeal. In fact, one version that they floated is not even allowable for reconciliation and would require 60 votes.

The ACA had > 100 hearings in multiple committees in both chambers and >100 amendments were added (again from both chambers).

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/07/us/politics/obamacare-repeal-of-health-law-republicans.html
http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2017/03/07/examining-the-house-republican-aca-repeal-and-replace-legislation/

What's going on now is nothing but kabuki theater because NONE of the impacted parties (citizens, healthcare providers, state regulators, etc) are able to provide any input in this purported "discussion".

[Meowmee]

87. Sounds

Like a troll post to me- the rattlesnake comment. I wouldn't bother responding.

[SalviaBlue]

66. What is worthy of debate?

Are you high? Have you not been paying attention? The ACA isn't working because the Cons are sabotaging it. THEY WILL NEVER ALLOW IT TO WORK. They do not work for us. This is about tax cuts for the wealthy.

You don't think this is the point at which we should be outraged?

Work together!?!?

[uponit7771]

99. WTF Kinda winger bullshit "ACA Isn't work" is this?

[CaliforniaPeggy]

13. I know that. I still wanted to see it STOPPED. So, we'll have to stop it somewhere else. n/t

[BumRushDaShow]

14. IMHO it needed to be killed before any amendments

and they need to start over with having hearings on the pieces that need to be fixed.

Now they go through a fucking "vote-a-rama" to attempt to amend it and drag the misery and bullshit from the media out for the next week or so.

[Raster]

15. It is NOT that simple....

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/25/us/politics/health-care-senate-vote.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news


SNIP

If the motion to begin debate passes, the first vote will be on legislation to repeal the Affordable Care Act without a replacement. That is likely to fail, and would be followed by a vote on the Senate Republican bill to replace the health law.

If that also fails, Senate leaders may fall back on a narrow bill that repeals the Affordable Care Act’s mandate that nearly everyone have health insurance, a separate mandate that most employers offer their employees health insurance and a repeal of the medical device tax.

The goal of that would be to simply get senators to negotiations with the House on a final repeal measure.

SNIP

What happens if the vote succeeds?

Such a vote would start the debate in the Senate on health care. At some point, Mr. McConnell is expected to offer an amendment that would substitute a new measure for the text of the bill that passed the House. But it remains to be seen what that new measure would be. Republicans are trying to pass the bill using special budget rules that limit debate to 20 hours and prevent a Democratic filibuster.

[Awsi Dooger]

16. It was always when, not if

We needed one or two more Democrats last November.

Nobody from the other side is going to reverse. They have been threatened by Trump and the donors.

[malaise]

20. Where was this McCain when the turtle was stealing Obama's Judicial appointment

Go Cheney yourself!

[FM123]

21. The problem is that they are so shady, that what appears at first to be something "neutral"

is usually some kind of ploy to do something treacherous while getting us to think that we ever had a chance at fair play.

[ollie10]

97. you can almost always predict the moderate Rs will cave

and you would almost always be right.

[dem4decades]

22. The debate is bullshit. McConnell will put his own bill in and pass it.

This was a sure way to kill it, it still lives.

[jpak]

26. Delusion

The reconciliation bill will be the House bill

[cynatnite]

28. It's one step closer to repealing the ACA. It's not the time to be blase about this. n/t

[BeyondGeography]

36. We should be neither blase nor defeatist

If anything, I think the specter of a man who just had a covered $76,000 surgery flying across the country to keep repeal alive just made their work harder.

[Guilded Lilly]

31. These are not sane times. These Republicans cannot be trusted.

They don't want debate. They don't want any other input. They don't give a rat's ass about real people. They don't play by sane, decent or traditional rules.

This just gives them another chance to pretend they are human while they do everything possible to destroy humanity.

They want $ in their coffers.

This whole gawd damned nightmare should never be happening in the first place.

[SoCalMusicLover]

32. Time To Move On To The Next Losing Battle

What will it be? The Russian investigation? Tax Reform? Perhaps the repubs will introduce a bill allowing them to control both Houses of Congress for the next century?

Don't forget to call your Senators.

[haele]

40. You have more optimism than I do.

Most of the GOP is hanging onto their seats, with challenges from the right, not from Democrats. Drumpf and the Evilangelicals have promised that they will primary them, and get their mindless minions to go as hard right as they could.
If they want to keep their power and donors, which is why most of that crew of cynical and failed businessmen and professionals are in office in the first place, they'll eventually vote yes. The Senate is no better than the House - only when the vote is certain are the seats that would be in trouble are allowed to vote against the party.

Hell, even Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski vote almost lockstep with their corrupt party. They've been allowed to vote "No" to look moderate because Pence will break the tie.
The "rational Moderates" of the GOP are only lying to themselves to sleep at night right now if they say they'll actually consider the BS McConnell will put in front of them before they'll accept it. And once they vote with the GOP on it - no matter what they said or promised to their constituents, no matter how bad their state will suffer they will just go on like it's all just the way the game is played. Like sausage making. Lots of things - people, jobs, communities, environment - have to get ground up, stuffed into intestines, and hung out to dry before some lucky buyer with enough money can enjoy the benefit.

Haele

[Blue_Tires]

44. This is literally me a year ago:

"Oh, I'm not really worried if Trump wins the nomination... He's just a joke of an anti-candidate and he'll get fully exposed for what he is in the national race!"

Assume nothing...

[Sailor65x1]

58. I was similar with friends and family

"Don't worry, there's no way this guy could win the nomination." Then he did, and it was "Don't worry, this guy couldn't possibly win the election." It has been surreal to say the least.

[Ms. Toad]

48. I want to halt it in its tracks.

This effort to repeal the ACA is a zombie that keeps coming back to life. I want it dead - not debated.

Take repeal off the table, and I'd be delighted to have a debate on how to fix what ails the ACA.

But as long as what they are debating is repeal, or repeal and replace - I want the death at the earliest possible stage in the proceeding, becuase permitting any victories - no matter how small - is like inviting the camel to stick its nose in the tent.

[Hekate]

50. Apparently not. I'd expect better of political junkies, but anger does things to critical thinking.

[loyalsister]

51. There are also behind the scenes deals that may be happening

There may be a "don't blame me, I voted to move it forward then they ruined it." Or "Don't blame me, I voted to move it forward and they refused to fix it."

Procedural votes are frequently used to have it both ways and that may be something the GOP foresees as a necessity for their candidatees in 2018. Really, where would they be if they didn't have the ACA to use to call Obama's presidency a failure? It would be as much of a disaster for them as if the Clinton's left the country and went into hiding.

[Warpy]

54. It could have been killed now

and moving to debate is useless because no one has seen the bill. What's there to debate?

Face it, they all caved to fuck the country over and give tax windfalls to the billionaires who bought them.

This means repeal will likely pass. The brick wall is about to fall.

[Bettie]

56. Do you really believe there will be any meaningful debate?

They'll put some stuff into it to appease those who have a sad that it doesn't kill enough people (the Koch brothers are the ones they'll appease) and then strong-arm them all into voting for it.

[L. Coyote]

68. Apparently some do not.

Those of us who do know it isn't over are not falling silent yet:

15 million losing healthcare next year equals all the Trump voters in 27 states

[edhopper]

69. McTurtle wouldn't be pushing this so hard

if he didn't know he had the votes to pass the bill?

[Sunlei]

70. never let a republican get their damn toe in the door. they'll hurt you.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

73. Of course we would have been better off if we killed this bill in the crib.

But it is still a long way from passing.

[Meowmee]

77. I think it would be very naive

To think It couldn't pass. It could. Just look at what is happening in this country.

[H2O Man]

83. Correct.

[vi5]

81. I'm confused how they did this without 60 votes?

I mean doesn't the Senate need 60 votes to bring anything to the floor?

[BumRushDaShow]

106. For debate related to Reconciliation (and its rules)

they only need 51. Other types of legislation require 60 votes to proceed (and can be killed with 41 "no"s).

[vi5]

112. Got it.

Thanks. I pay attention to this stuff to what I would say is an above average degree. I can't possibly imagine how confusing this must be to people who don't have time to pay attention to the minutiae of it all.

[BumRushDaShow]

113. The sad thing is that few in the media even have a clue about it

and it shows when you have the hysteria they generate about legislation that still has to go to another chamber for consideration and/or realizing that both chambers have to vote on and pass the IDENTICAL version of a bill before it goes to the President or knowing that a President can just "appoint" a Department head to suddenly start doing their bidding without that person being confirmed by the Senate FIRST. And I hate to say, that includes people like Rachael, et al.

After almost 30 years of watching CSPAN (both CSPAN 1 for the House & CSPAN 2 for the Senate), I have learned so much about the "process".

[riversedge]

88. No, Repugs had their chance for open debate. they said NO. Now, they have chance to pass #trumpcare!

we Democrats lost this first round.

[samnsara]

101. i just hate it that it emboldens trump some more...

[hatrack]

102. 20 hours of debate - compared with literally MONTHS of debate, hearings, testimony for ACA

20 hours - WHO. GIVES. A. FUCK.

They'll just find some way to ram this through with bribes delivered to the "troubled" and "concerned" among their ranks, and then we're all screwed.

20 hours. Again, WHO. GIVES. A. FUCK.

[Hoyt]

107. On NPR about 30 minutes ago, McCain said he would not vote for the actual Bill as it stands now.

I guess that is good. I really feel for people with serious illnesses worrying about their future with the crud going on.

[kacekwl]

111. If they add a extra comma then

it will be ok for John the coward because it's not the same bill. He is full of shit.

[Demsrule86]

110. I agree with yo about the votes, although I would have preferred it did not move forward...but

I still don't think they have the votes.