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SHRED

(28,136 posts)
Wed Jul 26, 2017, 11:43 AM Jul 2017

One of the Repug lies that drives me crazy


That they were "shut out" of the process while Obamacare was being crafted because it was "rammed through".

McCain reinforced that lie yesterday on the Senate floor and I just about threw something at the TV.

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Gabi Hayes

(28,795 posts)
1. And the so-called journos let it slide about nine times out of 1
Wed Jul 26, 2017, 11:49 AM
Jul 2017

Dem surrogates do, too, mostly

I SCREAM at the tv when it happens

Un frick in

Beleeeev a bubble

 

Gabi Hayes

(28,795 posts)
4. They're better than before, imo, but often unable
Wed Jul 26, 2017, 11:58 AM
Jul 2017

to counter the torrent of fauxfacts gouting from the likes of Santorum, Jordan, toomey, for just three examples of the worst

Ari Velshi did a good job of trying to stop the KOAA (king of all aholes), repeatedly insisting that almost every bogus assertion of his was "not true!"

He said it at least 10 times, I'd guess

OnDoutside

(19,953 posts)
3. I wish the Democrats would come out with (true) stuff like
Wed Jul 26, 2017, 11:56 AM
Jul 2017

"The Republican Party want to kill millions of Americans by taking their Healthcare away, to give the Kochs and the Mercers more Billions"

MiddleClass

(888 posts)
5. It's Bullshit, at least they're consistent, constantly lying
Wed Jul 26, 2017, 11:58 AM
Jul 2017

Hundreds of amendments in committee, from Republicans in the hope that Baucus would get Grassley and a few of the authors of those amendments, then there was hundreds more in the bill went to the floor for 30 days.

It wasn't jammed through, Republicans stood in unison, tried to block it, it passed the 60 vote threshold to break the Republican filibuster with all Democrat votes. So no, it was not jammed through, but that's why not one Republican voted for it, so they could lie and say it was.

Because Kennedy died, it did not go into conciliation, and Nancy Pelosi pass the Senate bill into law, which then required a few budgetary issues, passed by reconciliation.

It was put through without Republican votes, otherwise not jammed through. John McCain is lying

Leith

(7,809 posts)
6. It Irritates the Nonsense Out of Me, Too
Wed Jul 26, 2017, 12:03 PM
Jul 2017

They had input. They got to speak out on it for months and they did. Instead of working to make it more to their liking, they stomped their little feetsies, whined, and would not contribute.

They were never locked out. They were invited in. They got to add amendments. They refused to do anything but obstruct.

Fuck'em. Fuck'em all.

karynnj

(59,501 posts)
7. Same here People forget the "gang of 6" when the Finance committee tried to get a bipartisan bill
Wed Jul 26, 2017, 12:10 PM
Jul 2017

As to this and McCain, I wrote on a McCain thread:

However, his appearance yesterday was very McCain in nature. First of all, he flew accross the country to cast a vote that opened the way to potentially pass a terrible bill that will kick millions off health care. Then, because he is McCain, he gave a grandiose speech that spoke of wanting to get back to a Senate where both parties worked together. In that same speech, he lied that the Democrats refused to allow Republicans any input on Obamacare. In his speech he said he would not vote for the bill as is -- but before the day ended .. HE VOTED FOR THE BILL he said he had concerns about before going to Arizona!

The lie that Republicns had no voice is not a "little" lie, it is a gigantic lie he could safely make because Republicans have claimed that for 7 years because no Republican (other than one in the House) voted for the bill. However, getting no votes does not mean having no voice. Apparently he forgot the 4 month delay during which Baucus worked with a subset of the Finance committee including Snowe, Hatch, Grassley and Enzi plus right leaning Democrats, Conrad and Bingaman. https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/28/health-cares-gang-on-the-hill/?_r=0 What is clear is McConnell bullied everyone to voteagainst it. I watched the Finance committee vote when the bill was voted out. It was expected to be party line, but Snowe voted for it saying she did not want to be on the wrong side of history. A few months later, on the Senate floor, she voted no to essentially the same bill.

That effort very likely had the long term cost of pushing back when a bill passed the Senate. The cost of that was very high. Imagine that a bill passed in late October (2 months earlier than the week before Christmas when it did pass). the likelihood is that the House and Senate conference would have made the tweeks needed and the conference bill would then have passed completely under the normal process before Christmas. Incidentially had health care been a done deal, it is even likely that Scott Brown might have lost, giving us another year with 60 senators.

I was reading in the WP today that Joe Donelley wants to get a vote on his amendment that would throw the bill back to the committees that should have written it -- to allow it to be worked on in a bipartisan way. This amendment is asking for just what McCain called for ... but does anyone think he would vote for it if there Collins and Murkowsky were for it?

What surprises me about McCain is that with nothing left to lose, he could have come back -- asked to speak BEFORE the vote not immediately afterward and made almost the same speech. The difference would be that of course it makes no sense to open discussion on what he himself called a shell of a bill when he was arguing that what was needed was a bipartisan process. It would have been heroic to come back and make THAT speech to the Republicans before the vote. It also would have meant he would vote NO on the MTP. Instead, to borrow from Hamilton, McCain threw away his shot giving what could have been a powerful speech had it outined a path to achieve it.

That could have been the impetus to REALLY start a bipartisan process. It is even possible that it could have led to something that could get 60 or more votes - as ACA did, while McConnell is struggling for 50. McCain has been attacked by the far right, Trump's base for years. That will continue - even with the speech he did give, which they will trash. As to the media, very will continue their canonization of this heroic, but flawed man.

CousinIT

(9,239 posts)
8. Misinforming the Majority: A Deliberate Strategy of Radical Right-Wing
Wed Jul 26, 2017, 12:27 PM
Jul 2017
Misinforming the Majority: A Deliberate Strategy of Right-Wing Libertarians

. . .

Charles Koch supplied the money, but it was James Buchanan who supplied the ideas that made the money effective. An MIT-trained engineer, Koch in the 1960s began to read political-economic theory based on the notion that free-reign capitalism (what others might call Dickensian capitalism) would justly reward the smart and hardworking and rightly punish those who failed to take responsibility for themselves or had lesser ability. He believed then and believes now that the market is the wisest and fairest form of governance, and one that, after a bitter era of adjustment, will produce untold prosperity, even peace. But after several failures, Koch came to realize that if the majority of Americans ever truly understood the full implications of his vision of the good society and were let in on what was in store for them, they would never support it. Indeed, they would actively oppose it.

So, Koch went in search of an operational strategy -- what he has called a "technology" -- of revolution that could get around this hurdle. He hunted for 30 years until he found that technology in Buchanan's thought. From Buchanan, Koch learned that for the agenda to succeed, it had to be put in place in incremental steps, what Koch calls "interrelated plays": many distinct yet mutually reinforcing changes of the rules that govern our nation. Koch's team used Buchanan's ideas to devise a roadmap for a radical transformation that could be carried out largely below the radar of the people, yet legally. The plan was (and is) to act on so many ostensibly separate fronts at once that those outside the cause would not realize the revolution underway until it was too late to undo it. Examples include laws to destroy unions without saying that is the true purpose, suppressing the votes of those most likely to support active government, using privatization to alter power relations -- and, to lock it all in, Buchanan's ultimate recommendation: a "constitutional revolution."

. . .

Buchanan and Koch came up with the kind of strategy now in play precisely because they knew that the majority, if fully informed, would never support what they seek.


http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/41206-misinforming-the-majority-a-deliberate-strategy-of-right-wing-libertarians

barbtries

(28,787 posts)
9. they hammer on that lie all the time
Wed Jul 26, 2017, 12:40 PM
Jul 2017

it's total bullshit and they know it but they just catapult it out there constantly. so frustrating.

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