Please don't refer to any person with the word that means a female dog.

[MineralMan]

That would be great. If you don't mind, of course.

[Eliot Rosewater]

1. Agreed

I have had to stop saying kochsucker because it is too close to the other word, and I will stop saying it.

I get shit for motherfucker, so will stop with that one also.

Trump and the deplorables are vile, filthy and disgusting human beings. But I need a good word phrase, 2 words maybe, for that.

[Docreed2003]

51. Douche Bags...

Ah fuck...that's probably not appropriate either!! Shit!

[VermontKevin]

58. Assholes. Everyone's got one.

[Maeve]

84. Yes, but not everyone IS one. eom

[DBoon]

2. I don't even refer to our dog by that term

She is our dear canine lady

[Squinch]

4. You aren't supposed to post on here if you're younger than 13. Even if your mom says you can.

So why don't you run along and play with the other kids your age?

[WoonTars]

6. Mom!!!! You told me you'd stop spying on me!!!

...

[Squinch]

9. Believe me, kid. No one WANTS to be seeing what you've posted here.

[WoonTars]

12. And yet here you are...

...what's for dinner tonight?

[Squinch]

13. Your concession that you are under the age of 13, as your original post here suggests, is noted.

[WoonTars]

14. Your concession that you are my mom, is likewise, noted.

And, for the record, my original post says nothing about my age, that was YOUR original post. You're the one that said i was under 13 in your vague attempt to be witty.

[Squinch]

15. And again, you are not allowed to post here at your age.

[MineralMan]

5. Well, aren't you the clever person....

[Towlie]

22. Removed - I was abandoned by the person I was backing up.

[MineralMan]

30. Well, see, I'm MineralMan, because I am a guy.

I chose that name all by myself, knowing that it would identify my gender or sex.

It's interesting, I think, that you recognize the "submissive" in the meaning of the word, but miss the association with women and girls, who are traditionally expected to be submissive by our patriarchal society. Fortunately, women are not necessarily submissive. Still, the term is associated clearly with women or females, in the case of dogs.

Some people also use the word with the meaning of "to whine or complain." It's not a very difficult thing to demonstrate that the definition also has ties to the female sex in our language and society. Again, there are sexist or misogynistic connotations will pretty much all uses of that word.

[MrsCoffee]

47. That's why you removed it?

That's a shame. One would hope you had removed it for it's misogynistic content.

[Towlie]

49. It was an argument that "bitch" doesn't necessarily have any misogynistic content.

but the argument itself didn't contain misogynistic content.

Mistress of Coffee, you are making a straw person argument.

[Squinch]

70. Your post did argue that if he were a real feminist, he'd have called himself "Mineral Person."

Congratulations on a perfect imitation of the drooling high-fivery favored by the most ignorant members of Fox and Friends.

And, son, just for the record, you're wrong. Bitch IS a sexist insult.

[Sneederbunk]

7. This would ruin the Rap music industry.

[pnwmom]

8. And that's unfortunate, but this is a political board. n/t

[MineralMan]

10. I'm only referring to DU.

DU is not a rap venue. It's supposed to be a political discussion forum with a certain sense of maturity, and not a middle school playground. Anyhow, it was just a request. I don't make any rules on the Internet.

[Sunlei]

19. I'm sorry, IMO- "trump is putins puppy" isn't the same :(

[MineralMan]

23. Isn't it?

See, I'm thinking that the word "bitch" or its variants, when applied to a person is sorta, you know, sexist and misogynistic. That usage also reflects rather poorly on people who use it, I think.

But, everyone has a different point of view, I suppose.

[Sunlei]

25. no, I guess you haven't tried to run an obedience routine with a lagging bitch. embarrassing!

[mythology]

38. Yet another reason to support the request.

[TheFrenchRazor]

43. so it's win-win. nt

[Jamaal510]

59. Some rappers

don't use that word in their songs at all, and it's not as if rap is the only genre that has misogynist lyrics.

[msongs]

16. the entire american "music" industry would collapse if that happened nt

[MineralMan]

18. I'm not seeing what relevance that has to DU.

Not at all. I'm only talking about posts on DU. Nobody who doesn't come to DU is reading my posts.

[Sunlei]

21. yes, they are, if you say Mr. Trump he gets a google alert and looks to see what we said about him!

[MineralMan]

24. Oh, I'd be willing to bet that Donald Trump has never even

heard of DU. I can't imagine he's ever been here. See, we're really not all that important. Not really.

[Sunlei]

26. I beg to differ, DU is the number 1 D messageboard in USA

[MineralMan]

34. Yes, so it is. Still, I would be very, very surprised

if Donald Trump was aware of DU. Here's an experiment for you:

Whenever you meet someone, mention that you are a frequent poster on Democratic Underground. See how many people have any idea of what you are talking about. So far, I have met exactly no other person in my normal life who has ever heard of it, and that includes all of the people I deal with in my political activities here in the Twin Cities of Minnesota.

DU has, maybe, 2500 active posters. It has somewhat more readers, but not as many as you'd think. Look at the view count for threads here on the GD thread list page. When you do, remember that every time anyone opens the thread, even if it's the same person looking at it dozens of times, that view is counted.

On a typical day, the most viewed thread in GD might have about 4000 views. Many, many of those were made by people who returned to the thread multiple times, each of which is counted.

DU is my favorite political forum on the Internet. As you can see by my post count, I am very active here, and have been for years. However, I never imagine that more than 1000 people see anything I post on DU. Usually, it's far, far fewer than that.

Donald Trump does not visit Democratic Underground, I am certain. He uses Twitter, which generates far more views and posts. That's his venue of choice, and I doubt he strays far from it.

[Sunlei]

35. tweet some du topics to trumps gang 8-10k hits, depends on if the headline grabs his crazy eyes-

they really hate to be reminded Hillary won the pop vote by 3 million

[MineralMan]

36. I do not use Twitter. So, I won't bother doing that.

It doesn't seem to be a useful exercise to me. But, you're welcome to do it if you like.

[Sunlei]

40. I tweet @POTUS, @white house, @congress & senators frequently. not any more to trumps personal accou

trumps personal accounts, his team trump, his maga, his sons accounts..that was fun for a while but its a waste of time now. besides others spam those to pieces with thousands of insults

[cwydro]

55. Spot on.

No one cares about this website lol.

Except us.

[Sunlei]

28. what we need is some good music!

[Skidmore]

67. Perhaps it should

and discover actual singing is not seeing how much foul language you can cram in while talking fast in rhythm. Not a fan and MM is spot on about the use of that misogynistic slur here.

[defacto7]

17. I agree and support your request...

I also like that you ended with "if you don't mind". In the end it helps catagorize who respects other people and who doesn't.

[MineralMan]

20. Thanks. I try very hard to be polite.

My mother taught me that. She's 93 years old, now, and would still scold me if I wasn't.

[Blue_Adept]

27. The trouble of words

[MineralMan]

29. Again, I'm not seeing how that applies to DU, really.

I'm familiar with Carlin's bit on those words. I use some of them occasionally, but try not to use sexist or misogynistic ones. I've never found them all that useful, and they bother some people I'm trying to talk to.

For me, effectiveness is important, when I'm trying to make an argument or have a discussion. If the words I use are offensive to any of the people I'm talking with, then what I'm saying will be less effective. So, I try very hard to moderate my language so that I can reach more people without giving offense.

DU is not a completely public stage. Unlike most Internet forums, though, it doesn't have hard and fast rules about language. It has, instead, a unique form of user moderation. DU's users decide what is and is not acceptable. That's rather refreshing, I think.

Part of the reason for my request in the OP is that I saw a post that used a variation of that word to describe someone. That post was removed, after some DUers apparently disapproved of the usage. Isn't it easier to simply avoid the usage and find some other way to make the point? I think so.

[Drahthaardogs]

83. You used the word "goombah" in two separate posts

To refer to an Italian American and had the hubris to write a post defending your usage of the slur while several people of Italian descent said it was offensive.

You then have the coglioni to post this????

Are you fucking kidding me?

[Rob H.]

91. The phrase, "A leopard cannot change its spots" springs immediately to mind nt

[TeapotInATempest]

31. Thanks, MineralMan

I personally try to use non-gendered insults. Also, I really appreciate when people swear with imagination!

[MineralMan]

32. There are so many excellent words in the English language

one can use to insult some other person without being sexist about it. Wonderful words. Tremendous words, believe me!

[TeapotInATempest]

33. Yes, we have all the best words!

[HipChick]

37. Good luck with that...Understand the sentiment, but forum policing

never really works...unless you are an admin...

[MineralMan]

39. Oh, sometimes it does. One such use was removed today.

Another resulted in a new DUer being ejected from the building.

I just posted a polite reminder as a cautionary sort of thing, really.

The reality is that DU's user moderation actually works pretty well, most of the time. Not always, but most of the time.

[HipChick]

41. I missed that today...thanks for letting me know what the context was

[Pachamama]

42. I believe it was me who used the word today that was "removed"

I am laughing about it though....

Saying that Trump is Putin's female dog in heat really isn't the same as using the word Bitch.

And what is interesting, is that it's not a DU policy, and I am woman, consider myself a feminist and I am even proud to say that I have proudly worn the name of being a "Bitch".

I respect you MineralMan and have never had an issue with you on DU and you know I am a long time DUer and a very balanced person.

But I disagree on this - especially at a time when we live with a White House that has a President who thinks it's ok to grab women by the Pussy, a Director of communications who talks about cocksuckers and Cucks.

Oh yes - I also love the word pussy and am proud to have one - love the band pussy riot. Love wearing my pussy hat. And when I had a Trump supporter call me a bitch as I wore that pink pussy hat at a rally, I owned that name proudly and said "yes I am a bitch".

Trump probably doesn't like being called that name...

[TheFrenchRazor]

45. well, be aware that a lot of us have no desire to "reclaim" those insults, and if you use them,

you will be insulting a good number of people. i always get the feeling that the users of these words just don't care whether they insult people for no good reason or not.

[mercuryblues]

48. +1

I am also a feminist. I believe those words undermine women. They are gender slurs aimed at diminishing women as full human beings. It doesn't matter how or who uses them. The result is the same. It is giving cover to those who use them in their most negative vile form.

[MineralMan]

60. Nope. I didn't see your post.

[TheFrenchRazor]

44. agreed; it should be self-evident that it is misogynist, but some people clearly don't care. nt

[Abu Pepe]

46. how about as a verb like

some people like to bitch about stupid shit?

[Warren DeMontague]

50. Oooh, how retro!

https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1359420


I want a malt and some saddle shoes, daddy-o

[DesertRat]

52. Thank you. nt

[Shrike47]

53. I cannot agree. I think freedom of expression is important; the disturbed can block the poster.

I am female and have lived my life in a feminist manner. I sometimes find words to fit a situation which others disapprove of. I have, in fact, been blocked at least once for using a term about a woman which is disapproved of on this site. I think the word was appropriate to the woman and the situation. But we don't say some things here because they offend. Lousy practice, IMO, but there it is.

I do not want to enlarge the list of proscribed words. I believe it to be excessive already.

[TheFrenchRazor]

65. no one is limiting your FOE, of course; just pointing out that words have meaning, and if you

deliberately use words that are obviously and rightly offensive to a lot of people, those people are equally free to let you know that they don't appreciate it. as many have noted, if you can't come up with a better insult than the B-word, you really aren't trying very hard, and there's no reason why anybody should give you a pass on it.

[VermontKevin]

54. Gentlemen are gentle men. Be one.

[Nevernose]

56. In a very technical sense, I think you mean female canine

Because a dog, by definition, is male. It would be like saying "female roosters." You could say hens, or female chickens, but not female roosters. I guess definitions change over time.

I've got a relative who's a professional etymologist, so I just parrot whatever they tell me about words...

[WinkyDink]

57. As an adult woman, I cannot agree to this. Are we allowed only certain pejoratives? DID NO-ONE

HERE QUOTE SCARAMUCCI WITH HIS NON-PC "MALE" TERMS??

Yeah, that's what I thought.

P.S. Never again listen to "You Ain't Nothin' But a Hound Dog," okay? Or "Hey, bird dog, stay away from my quail!"

Don't use canine terms for people!! :-P

[GulfCoast66]

63. Best post I have read in a long time.

And great music as well! Heaven forbid I post Bessie Smith songs here. I might be banned for life😄

[Iggo]

61. I do understand.

I don't think it'll make a difference.

But I do understand.

[sammythecat]

62. I'm trying to think of who I'd use that term to describe

Ann Coulter, I'm sure there were times I thought she was a bitch. I'm thinking mean, hypocritical, completely cynical and shitty... not female dog. Is that really what comes to your mind when you hear that? Female dog? Rumsfeld and Cheney are bastards, in the sense that they are male equivalents of Coulter. Not that their fathers didn't marry their mothers. No ordinary person thinks of those terms in the sense of their original meanings.

These words don't offend my sensibilities when they are used appropriately. I wouldn't use them around someone who would be offended because they're someone who just doesn't swear much, or at all. I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable. If it's someone who's going to call me, or think of me as, a misogynist or misandrist because I used one of those words, well, I guess I'd just do my best to avoid their company.

I'm an animal lover and I spend too much of my hard earned money caring for animals that no one else around here will and yet there are people who'd think a little less of me because I eat eggs, drink milk, and have a leather belt and shoes. F them. I'm probably close to your age and I have a fair amount of stress in my life. That, and the fact that I'm very aware I don't have unlimited time in this world, has made me just about completely intolerant of bullshit and nonsense. I know what I am and what I'm not. If someones going to think me a misogynist or enemy of animals they better back those accusations up with something more than that I eat eggs or think Ann Coulter is a bitch.

PS: I am aware the word "bitch" can be, and is, often used in clearly misogynistic ways. We all know it when we hear it. It's plain as day whats meant and that is very offensive to any decent person. Misogyny is offensive, not our language.

[Chemisse]

88. This is an important point: "Misogyny is offensive, not our language."

The social banning of language often just spawns substitutes. Just think of how many names there have been - just in the past 100 years - for people who are mentally challenged. All are now considered insults. The problem is not the word; it is the attitude.

Now the word 'bitch' is offensive, yet women around the nation have embraced the far more misogynist term 'pussy.' The policing of words is far too random and restrictive for me to take seriously.

[tammywammy]

64. I agree.

I rarely use the word.

[NanceGreggs]

66. Actually ...

... I do mind.

[Old Vet]

68. Are some of you people kidding me.............

All the shit going down these days like 45 destroying our republic, N. Korea now has the ability to hit the main land USA. And some are offended by calling Palin, Coulter, Bachman, Conway a bitch seriously?

[Squinch]

71. Yes. Seriosly. Call them something that doesn't depend on their gender to demean them.

When you demean them in terms that demean their gender, you demean me along with them.

[TheFrenchRazor]

74. um, it's not either/or. some of us can walk and chew gum at the same time. just admit it,

you like calling women, B*****s; otherwise, you would agree with the OP, or just ignore it.

[usedtobedemgurl]

69. I totally understand why you would not want it said here and I concur.

However, I do feel there are times when it is appropriate. Again, not here. But about 10-20% of men that I see, in my personal life, want to be called that name and sometimes even beg. I usually do not do it out in public unless they are into that sort of thing. The only time I truly use it is when it is consensual. Just like some other words I do not use in everyday life. So, sometimes it is appropriate, just not here.

[Warren DeMontague]

72. Every couple years DU has this argument, and despite demands to the contrary there is no consensus.

Like I pointed out upthread, there was a good 10-thread long debate on the matter in 2004. I'm reasonably certain that EVERY argument someone might put out now, was covered back then.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1359420

Similarly, when we had the fight over "bitch" in 2005, 2006, 2009, 2011, etc etc etc.

Bottom line is, some people feel it is a gendered insult or an insult on the entire gender, whereas others (myself included) feel it is more accurately characterized as an insult with a gendered component -not the same thing- much like "dick". As such it's more relevant who it is being applied to, rather than the word itself.

Like, I don't think too many people would disagree with me if I say "that Chris Christie is a real dick".

Now, I don't use "bitch" very much, but I also don't bitch about "bitch" much.

[Pachamama]

73. [phone] - Completely Agree with all you said

I thought it was fun for a moment to see DU go all retro and laughed remembering the 10+ thread marathon(s) Skinner had to regulate....

For those of us who have been on DU for well over a decade, we remember these debates and it always has the same result....there will be those that take issue with the word and those that see it as a great word that should not be policed...

Some people "bitch" in a "bitchfest" about the word "bitch" and see who can "out-bitch" and be the "bitchiest"....

Sorry - I guess I am being a real Dick now....

PS: its been a long week and I never heard the word "cock" and "cocksucker" and "Fuck" and "Fucking" mentioned so many times in my life on the news, in conversations outside of DU etc. So seeing a debate about the B-word is just too much for me to take seriously.....so if Skinner wants to ban the use of all profanity, any reference to male or female dogs, male or female chickens, the F-Bomb and sexual acts including oral, male and female genitalia, any other oriface - then I guess DU will either morph into that new pure censored forum of progressiveness and democracy and we decide to either stay or go...and maybe until then, people who have issue with the words they don't like, can use the ignore/block feature Skinner invented years ago....

[cwydro]

75. Lol.

This is reminding me of the great fried chicken threads of yore.

[ms liberty]

86. This. n/t

[wryter2000]

76. Thank you!

it's insulting to all women.

[Soxfan58]

77. Is Bastard all right?

Or are we just being sexist here.

[elehhhhna]

81. And jackass. Offensive to donkeys?

[NCjack]

85. is "stud muffen" offensive to all male horses and female cats?

The wars against words are difficult to win. In my life, the word "bitch" is mostly used by women against other women.

[elehhhhna]

90. No, but it is deeply deeply hurtful to baked breakfast goods.

[Orrex]

78. I know dozens of women who embrace the term and use it often

I'll pass your request along to them.

[get the red out]

79. I often refer to myself

And my female dog like that sometimes, but not on DU.

[Vinnie From Indy]

80. Is that the only word ?

Maybe you could do a daily post listing words that offend you. After a while, we could compile all the words that offend you and make them into a book or a song or something.

That would be great!

[lillypaddle]

82. Um, you must be channeling

THAT obnoxious person who made many of our stay at DU so miserable. You use your words, we're adults and we will choose ours as we see fit. IOW, I do mind.

[ms liberty]

87. Yea, we've had this discussion a few times.

There's a link upthread to a most entertaining mega thread on this very subject.

[Coventina]

92. Bitches are terrific. Unfortunately, due to the mis-use of the word, talking about them

sometimes becomes uncomfortable for those of us in academia.

When I was discussing my thesis with the President of the college where I was eventually hired, I was relating the story of a breed of Dutch dogs were rescued from extinction by one true-type bitch found on a remote farm.

[Kentonio]

93. Well I guess this thread will provide the people at FR and other right wing sites with some material

Yes I do mind, I mind from the principle of someone trying to control the words I'm allowed to use, and I mind from the perspective of this kind of silliness being brought up to a group of grown adults who are supposedly here to discuss national politics.

We just narrowly avoided a bill that would have killed around 20,000 Americans each year, and the fight is far from over. Please save this patronizing nonsense for your grandchildren.

Oh and PS: This kind of thing makes us look like an absolute laughing stock in 95% of the country, and contributes to the idea that we're a party of liberal elitists who don't understand the issues faced by everyday working people.