Being rich wrecks your soul. We used to know that.

[applegrove]

By Charles Mathewes and Evan Sandsmark at the Washington Post

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/being-rich-wrecks-your-soul-we-used-to-know-that/2017/07/28/7d3e2b90-5ab3-11e7-9fc6-c7ef4bc58d13_story.html?utm_term=.26549d6f1769

"SNIP.............


The idea that wealth is morally perilous has an impressive philosophical and religious pedigree. Ancient Stoic philosophers railed against greed and luxury, and Roman historians such as Tacitus lay many of the empire’s struggles at the feet of imperial avarice. Confucius lived an austere life. The Buddha famously left his opulent palace behind. And Jesus didn’t exactly go easy on the rich, either — think camels and needles, for starters.

The point is not necessarily that wealth is intrinsically and everywhere evil, but that it is dangerous — that it should be eyed with caution and suspicion, and definitely not pursued as an end in itself; that great riches pose great risks to their owners; and that societies are right to stigmatize the storing up of untold wealth. That’s why Aristotle, for instance, argued that wealth should be sought only for the sake of living virtuously — to manage a household, say, or to participate in the life of the polis. Here wealth is useful but not inherently good; indeed, Aristotle specifically warned that the accumulation of wealth for its own sake corrupts virtue instead of enabling it. For Hindus, working hard to earn money is a duty (dharma), but only when done through honest means and used for good ends. The function of money is not to satiate greed but to support oneself and one’s family. The Koran, too, warns against hoarding money and enjoins Muslims to disperse it to the needy.

Some contemporary voices join this ancient chorus, perhaps none more enthusiastically than Pope Francis. He’s proclaimed that unless wealth is used for the good of society, and above all for the good of the poor, it is an instrument “of corruption and death.” And Francis lives what he teaches: Despite access to some of the sweetest real estate imaginable — the palatial papal apartments are the sort of thing that President Trump’s gold-plated extravagance is a parody of — the pope bunks in a small suite in what is effectively the Vatican’s hostel. In his official state visit to Washington, he pulled up to the White House in a Fiat so sensible that a denizen of Northwest D.C. would be almost embarrassed to drive it. When Francis entered the Jesuit order 59 years ago, he took a vow of poverty, and he’s kept it.

According to many philosophies and faiths, then, wealth should serve only as a steppingstone to some further good and is always fraught with moral danger. We all used to recognize this; it was a commonplace. And this intuition, shared by various cultures across history, stands on firm empirical ground.

.............SNIP"

[bettyellen]

1. I hate hearing all the judginess toward people who have any money saved-

People forget some places the cost of living is double compared to others. If you were born and raised there it's hard.

[applegrove]

4. They've done studies. You need to have some challenges in your life

and have interconnectedness to be truly happy.

[bettyellen]

21. Many big challenges- major loss, illness, bad fortune have nothing to do with poor finances

And I say that as someone who grew up w both. These blanket condemnations of people with any money are getting ridiculous. We really have to stop this bullsht

[applegrove]

25. I think that there is a danger to great wealth. There is a danger in many

forms of power.

[bettyellen]

26. I get that. But none of us are to be blamed for the circumstances we're born to. Some make more ...

Of it, some wallow and can't achieve a thing. To me, seeing both, it's very disconnected to the circumstances of birth.

[applegrove]

33. A study I read a few months. Seeking out challenges rather than taking the

easy way out makes one happy.

Here is some like study:
http://www.denverpost.com/2014/07/02/happiness-requires-seeking-new-challenges/

[applegrove]

35. In looking for the article I found this:

https://www.ted.com/playlists/4/what_makes_you_happy

[no_hypocrisy]

2. I watched it happen to my father as he got more and more money.

Reminds me of the children's story of "The Fisherman and the Flounder".

When my parents met, my father supported Adlai Stevenson and was a regular guy. When he started getting money, he changed.

My father became more authoritarian and more concerned about his social status as his doctor's practice developed.

His choice of cars, his choice of fancy and expensive hotels (The Breakers in Palm Beach), joining a restrictive private country club, his choice where he wanted me to attend college. He would have chosen my husband if allowed. (I'm not off-base here. He called my college against my protestations to tell them to move the roommate they had assigned to live with me, a girl from Vietnam.)

It got to the point where I became a liability to his status in his private golf club because I was not Town & Country material or conservative enough.

I suppose he had the last laugh when he died: he had more than $1.5 million in assets and disinherited me and my two siblings. Instead he gave $35,000 to the neighbor across the street and about $1 million to four charities.

[applegrove]

3. You have to work to stay grounded. In mixed discussion forums the right

wingers all think they are uniquely brilliant and deserving of much luck, and Don't see it as luck. I don't think they are too happy.

[uponit7771]

39. +1, and it doesn't matter how straight broke they are either they think they've made "it" and have

... something someone wants ... they're not happy being that damn stupid

[Warren DeMontague]

5. It wasnt wealth so much the Buddha was eschewing, it was attachment

And - this is just my subjective interpretation, you can take it with as many grains of salt as you wish - his ultimate analysis was that fear and desire are two sides of the same attachment coin, and result in suffering, at least as long as one misunderstands the fundamentals of the situation...

namely, "there's nothing you can hold for very long"

Also his wealth and sequestration from knowledge of sickness, old age and death was, like so many things in myth/religion, an allegory or metaphor imho.

[applegrove]

7. I am not so good at learning new things by reading. I found buddhism

to be so exceptionally complicated because it was so novel in so many ways. I could not follow it when I read up on it. Thanks for explaining the difference.

[Warren DeMontague]

9. Caveat: I don't pretend to be an expert.

I have my interpretation of some of the core ideas, but there's a lot there.

I would more label myself a Taoist than anything else, in that to my mind one only starts to understand Lao Tsu by acknowledging that, like Quantum Mechanics or Time, no one really understands Lao Tsu.

And like all other big faiths or belief systems, I think there's a lot of filigree and buildup and ritual and other stuff which some people ascribe to which may or may not be useful to getting at the core ideas.

I think some of the ideas of Buddhism influenced early Christianity- compassion, seeing yourself in every consciousness, etc. Although clearly neither Christianity nor Buddhism have a monopoly on those ideas.

One thing that I think is sometimes confusing to adherents of Western belief systems, is that Buddhism isn't so much a worship of God or Gods (some strains clearly are, more than others) as it is an analysis of the "problem" of existence and/or suffering and a prescription for the "cure".

[applegrove]

11. Yes. I could not 'unpack it's. Plus I have ptsd and some of the terms set

me off. On the whole I did not find it relaxing or peaceful for those reasons. All my fault.

[defacto7]

14. This explanation is considerably better than mine.

[moondust]

6. "God complex"

Watch out for that type, especially if they're spotted hanging around the White House.

[applegrove]

8. Absolutely. I think human beings are happiest when the experience awe.

Being little in the grand scope of things reminds us of the joys of childhood.

[Warren DeMontague]

12. Well, here's a little anecdote from my teen years.

I had a job one summer at a mini mart in the suburbs, near a train station. One of the things I remember most about that summer was watching the progression of people across the course of the day.

The first people to come in would be, generally, Mexican guys with their gardening trucks (you know, the "bad hombres" Trump wants to deport), early in the morning. They would come in, invariably super-fucking friendly, laughing, buy a 6 pack, totally cheerful...

over the course of the day the customer base would change until at 4-5 pm the dudes in suits would start getting off the train from their jobs in finance or what-have-you, downtown. Before angrily peeling out of the parking lot across the street in their beemers, they would come into the minimart, bark some nasty shit at me, scowl, act pissed off, huff, puff, stomp around, complain about the price of a pack of gum, whatever. They were, more often than not, MISERBALE.

Anecdote, to be sure, but it was educational.

[applegrove]

16. I just finished reading tribe that goes into how people are happiest

when they feel interconnected and authentic. Maybe having unlimited things makes one feel unauthentic?

[Warren DeMontague]

19. Or just living inauthentic lives

Ive known happy rich people, but often theyre people who love what they do, have a dream and pursue it, etc.

I think people get into trouble when they live according to someone else's plan,and find that the "right" job, spouse, address or bank account balance doesnt actually make them happy.

[applegrove]

20. Absolutely.

[bettyellen]

24. Reminds me of when my dad started working for Uber wealthy Park Av dwellers - he was shocked

They weren't any happier than the people who lived in our edge of the ghetto neighborhood. He actually took an inventory of the tenants vs people on our block and realized it was random but also ... a frame of mind or choice.

[defacto7]

10. It's hard for the media entrenched people we are to see the wisdom

in this, but it's not only a philosophically sound position it's historical. I have my own stories of both sides of the equation which I won't bore people with but your post certainly holds true in my experience.

I think the idea of wealth could be narrowed down to having a magnitude of property that one person or family unit could not use in a lifetime, or any amount of wealth that changes one's perspective on life; posessions shouldn't make a difference. Outside of that it could be a matter of conscience. I have an excessively wealthy acquaintance who is quite resposible and empathetic, I also know some pretty selfish middle class nut cases.

There are exceptions but in a broad sense, wealth, however you define it has some major drawbacks and responsibilities.

[applegrove]

13. I think the idea that wealth has some dangers built into it is important.

I don't think you should ever judge people on anything but their actions if you have to judge. I'm a little uncomfortable with parts. But on the whole I think it is an important enough idea that I did the OP.

[defacto7]

17. It's an important thing to keep in mind. Self examination

is a good thing.

[DFW]

15. And all Texans are rednecked, racist, gun-toting Republicans, too

Stereotypes fail. Period.

I know some rich people who are totally corrupt. What Texan doesn't?

I also know some who are totally unaffected by their wealth, unimpressed by it, and give large portions of theirs away. For that matter, I know some people who have never made any money at all, and all they do is dream of ways they can take it away from other people.

Generalizations like this are somewhere between boring and dangerous. I know guys both in Europe and in the USA for whom their wealth is nothing more than keeping score. They have a talent for making money like some have a talent for making violins. They live comfortably, not ostentatiously, and give much, if not most, of what they made away--charity, cancer research, funds for homeless children, whatever. If you are beholden by your wealth, beware. If you are unimpressed by it, bravo.

[applegrove]

18. Oh i agree.

[brooklynite]

22. Depends on how you define rich...

...my wife wife and I are "rich" by any standard DU would likely accept, and it hasn't changed our political or moral philosphy.

[applegrove]

23. You are interconnected and authentic and have meaningful work , I would

guess. And obviously grounded still.

[kimbutgar]

27. I've worked with soulless rich leople

It's all about them and their self interests. They will stab in the back anyone who crosses them.

[treestar]

28. I was challenging some righties that is the US

Is a Christian nation as they claim, then wouldn't the rich be rushing to get rid of the extra money ? The camel can't get through the eye of a needle. The rich would be terrified they would not get into heaven and so would give it away as Jesus said.

[Beaverhausen]

29. Right. Those Kennedys are awful people who never do anything to benefit others

[applegrove]

30. I posted the part about wealth being a danger. I wanted that to get out. Of

course many people don't pretend they deserve every penny. And know they are lucky. But i would think with the likes of Donald Trump running around people would be more open to ancient wisdom that there are potential pitfalls to wealth.

[applegrove]

36. I think she is an amazing person who has not fallen into the pitfalls of being very rich.

She's always been about public service and now is all about charity.

[applegrove]

38. She was a great Senator. Her children's defense fund work. First ladyships. Women's rights.

I think she would have been a stellar President. Now she'll be a stellar retired politician. I look forward to the time when the election is far enough behind her that she can tell it like it is.

[Rhiannon12866]

41. Damn! I was going to reply to this one, too!

And she was also my senator, and a good one. I think that qualifies as "public service!" Certainly more than selling your name for money. Oh well...

[byronius]

40. A society that permits or encourages hoarding will suffer for it.

As we are.

[BeyondGeography]

42. This is really an article about Americans who don't know how to be happy

That is decidedly not just a rich people problem in this country.

[applegrove]

43. Well compared to other countries many, many Americans are wealthy.

So sure it applies there too.