interesting point about how universal health care saves on auto insurance

[renate]

"...my car insurance is $120 PER YEAR, liability only, and I am covered to $20,000,000. Because you car insurance is really expensive because its really medical insurance for who you hit."
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/6qdfd9/seriousnonamerican_redditors_what_is_it_really/dkx0hqj/

Has anyone else ever seen this point being raised? With the HUGE potential savings on auto insurance, and the not-all-that-much-higher taxes that many Europeans pay, it seems like this could be an important factor in persuading people about the benefits of single-payer health care.

The whole thread (Non-American Redditors: What is it really like having a single payer/universal type healthcare system) is interesting:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/6qdfd9/seriousnonamerican_redditors_what_is_it_really/

(Spoiler alert: They love it, and can't imagine life any other way, although admittedly several people criticize the mental health component of national health care.)

P.S. I've tried to fix the huge white space below that first quote... sorry, I don't know what I did wrong.

[PoliticAverse]

1. So effectively that argues that universal health care subsidizes unsafe drivers...

and also penalizes people that don't drive.

[renate]

2. two family members of mine have been hit and *severely* injured by uninsured drivers

One of them was a pedestrian, and didn't drive at all so he didn't buy auto insurance and therefore wasn't in a group that would save money. So in theory, I guess, universal coverage would have "penalized" him... except for the part where he needed medical care.

Those of us who drive all subsidize unsafe or uninsured drivers already when we buy auto insurance. And people who don't drive can still need medical care because of them.

[PoliticAverse]

3. Well uninsured drivers don't pay anything for insurance so aren't covered by the argument in

the article. But yes, universal health care might force now uninsured drivers effectively to pay something
to cover health care for those they might injure.

[KentuckyWoman]

4. $120 a year for $20 Million in coverage?

in the US?


The point is fine and I agree. Universal single payer medical care has so many different financial benefits it's hard to quantify the monetary value.

But seriously, $120 annually for $20 Million in auto liability coverage? What, they only drive out to the mailbox and back?

[csziggy]

14. If you followed the link below that quote, the person is in New Zealand

Here is the entire comment:

kittenfordinner 3 points 19 hours ago

I am an American, but I moved to New Zealand. Its like this, You need an ambulance, no problem, I watched an aquaintance get airlifted to the hospital, I picked them up, no bill, already paid for. My doctors visits cost $50, 5$ copay, re-fills included in that somehow. I do have health insurance $35 per month to prevent me from having to be on any waiting lists for a knee operation or something(those are a thing, but people seem to get what they need). And get this, my car insurance is $120 PER YEAR, liability only, and I am covered to $20,000,000. Because you car insurance is really expensive because its really medical insurance for who you hit. So you'll pay health insurance over and over and over.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/6qdfd9/seriousnonamerican_redditors_what_is_it_really/dkx0hqj/

[jberryhill]

5. A lot of lawsuits are actually about "which insurance company is going to pay"

When you see "look at this silly lawsuit" articles, what is really going on is "pin the medical expenses on X or Y insurance company".

[Ron Obvious]

6. No need to take the other guy to court to recover medical expenses...

... and winding up with a fraction of your medical expenses because they hired an expensive lawyer.

In countries with a function healthcare system, you are first made whole and healed from your injuries and, if they feel it necessary, your health insurance company will sue the other party that caused the accident.

We get screwed in so many ways here and most people aren't even aware of the fact there's another, better way.

[brush]

7. Another benefit for universal care is the lowered cost of autos...

Last edited Sun Jul 30, 2017, 09:24 PM - Edit history (1)

and other durable goods.

How so? Right now it costs the auto companies around $1500 per car produced because of insurance cost for it's workers.

Take away that expense and American cars become much more competitive v European and Asian cars.

IMO manufacturers should be the first in line clamoring for single payer/universal care.

[MichMan]

9. Depends on who ends up being responsble for paying for single payer? nm

[brush]

11. The government pays for it through slightly higher taxes or slightly lower miliatry costs

Last edited Sun Jul 30, 2017, 10:16 PM - Edit history (1)

The taxes would be lower than what paycheck deductions are now so workers save too.

It would essentially be Medicare for all and we know Medicare works.

It's not a radical idea at all as we also know universal healthcare has worked in other western countries for decades.

All we have to do is take the best features from the German, French, British, Canadian systems and get it going.

And manufacturers would be saved all the employee insurances contributions they now make and all the paper work and administrative costs.

They need to break out of that repug, anti-healthcare mindset and get on board and watch their profit margin per unit soar as their products can then undercut their competitors prices.

[MichMan]

15. What legislation has been passed that supports what you posted?

How are the taxes to pay for it generated?

On corporations and business?

On individuals with income and payroll taxes?

On individuals with sales or VAT taxes?

That's right, nobody knows yet since a serious proposal hasn't been debated. To say that the taxes would be lower than what payroll deductions already are is also completely unknown.

Medicare works now because people pay into it for 40 years before retiring. To extend that to the entire population would result in a massive amount of revenue. It isn't as simple as some people make it out to

[brush]

16. It's not that hard. Other countries do it and have been doing it for decades.

We have people smart enough to work it out, except maybe on the repug side. They can't seem to see past anything but their desire to cut taxes for their rich paymasters.

[MichMan]

8. I thought that the ACA would also drop auto insurance rates, but not the case at all

In theory that could be possible that auto insurance rates would go down. I initially thought the ACA would do the same thing as I believed that with the mandate, everyone would be insured. Did not work out that way at all as I will describe.

In my state we have no fault insurance. That means that my damages and injuries from a car accident are covered by my insurance and not the other persons regardless of fault. I have always had health insurance through my employer, but also have to pay for medical insurance under my car insurance policy.

Car insurance rates here are very high & the Detroit Free Press did a analysis to find out why. The auto insurers have no say on what the hospitals and doctors charge. The medical industry knows that and charges them as much as they can. Once the medical industry realize that the injuries were from a car accident, they seize the opportunity.

In addition, ambulance chasing lawyers contact anyone in a car accident and promise them the possibility of large payouts whether they have any injuries or not. The Free Press found that the lawyers would steer people to specific doctors & clinics that would charge excessive amounts with the lawyers personally getting a cut of the action. (digest that for a minute!)

Take an MRI for example. Typical charge is about $1000. These clinics would charge $5000 and many patients were told to go back for more multiple times. It gets better; since the patient may have "neck pain", besides their own disability payments, they are often entitled to have home assistance with daily activities, also paid for by the car insurance. This allows someone, like a spouse for instance, to receive $15/hr wages (including overtime) to provide around the clock care until it is no longer needed. So now a family member has a guaranteed "job" with decent wages

For people that live in poverty, getting in an accident like this can almost be like winning the lottery, so this kind of fraud is more often perpetrated in the larger urban areas. As a result, Michigan has some of the highest insurance rates in the country.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2017/05/07/detroit-car-insurance-lawyers-accidents-solicitation/100301782/

[GeorgeGist]

10. stop reading at the absurd claim ...

"...my car insurance is $120 PER YEAR, liability only, and I am covered to $20,000,000.

[Delmette2.0]

12. I have brought this up

And I also think that we can eliminate the accident rider on our homeowners policies.

[Jim Lane]

19. You couldn't eliminate the accident rider.

If a visitor puts a foot through your rotted-out front step and is injured, the lawsuit against you will seek damages in three major categories: medical expenses, pain and suffering, and lost wages. Of course, in any particular case these can be of varying importance. A retiree won't have a claim for lost wages. Other visitors, however, might, so you'd want the insurance even if single payer meant that you had no exposure to a claim for the victim's medical expenses.

[roamer65]

13. Yes, it would.

A good chunk of Michigan's no-fault auto insurance program is the medical catastrophic claims coverage.

It would be unnecessary under a single-payor Medicare system.

[NobodyHere]

17. Medical expenses still have to be paid by someone

[stopwastingmymoney]

18. Same applies to Workers comp insurance

Business liability, homeowners liability, medical coverage is a big part of all of these