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Can we stop propagating the right wing alt-left trope now? (Original Post) Voltaire2 Aug 2017 OP
Yes, PLEASE? regnaD kciN Aug 2017 #1
There is no such thing as the 'alt-left'..there are neo-nazis on one side... WoonTars Aug 2017 #2
Exactly mvd Aug 2017 #6
yes, let's refrain bdamomma Aug 2017 #38
Yes leftstreet Aug 2017 #3
Yes, Yes, Yes TubbersUK Aug 2017 #4
That would be nice melman Aug 2017 #5
What do you propose we call the progressives who are out to destroy the Democratic Party? SecularMotion Aug 2017 #7
Delusional Ideations? GaryCnf Aug 2017 #10
Not progressives? Nt Weekend Warrior Aug 2017 #11
What do YOU propose calling progressives who are not happy with some things about the DNC? Curmudgeoness Aug 2017 #14
thanks. exactly. Voltaire2 Aug 2017 #15
Post removed Post removed Aug 2017 #16
+1 betsuni Aug 2017 #20
+1,000. HughBeaumont Aug 2017 #34
thanks we are in a crisis mode now bdamomma Aug 2017 #39
Get rid of all the euphemisms, also Warpy Aug 2017 #8
The problem is, arguing against things like single payer or a $15 min. wage or descheduling cannabis Warren DeMontague Aug 2017 #17
no it isn't. it's those who push the conspiracies like seth rich murder, defend Putin JI7 Aug 2017 #21
if you say so. Warren DeMontague Aug 2017 #23
you think people who pushed those conspiracies actually supported sanders ? they were trolls JI7 Aug 2017 #24
You're not hearing me, I think. Warren DeMontague Aug 2017 #26
Yes! It's not that hard. kcr Aug 2017 #35
I know, which is why I throw in the Eleanor Roosevelt paraphrase Warpy Aug 2017 #32
Yes, ditch the divisive "corporatists" "neoliberals" "third way" also. R B Garr Aug 2017 #33
Neoliberalism is an economic philosophy, a very destructive one Warpy Aug 2017 #37
That's laughable. It is used to mock groups of Democrats. R B Garr Aug 2017 #40
You didn't read the links, did you? Warpy Aug 2017 #41
Linking to Wikipedia is laughable when the common usage of those R B Garr Aug 2017 #42
Neoliberalism is real, and has history: Ghost Dog Aug 2017 #43
lol, it's used to mock people now. Reality is a thing. It is used divisively. R B Garr Aug 2017 #44
+1,000 HughBeaumont Aug 2017 #36
Agreed. Coventina Aug 2017 #9
Alt left was started by alt right trolls. Initech Aug 2017 #12
Absolutely. Ideologies from Manchin to Turner have a common enemy. Weekend Warrior Aug 2017 #13
can we? Tavarious Jackson Aug 2017 #18
No no no, that's different. betsuni Aug 2017 #25
I suspect it would be tolerated, but it might be mocked. Warren DeMontague Aug 2017 #29
that would be easier if some Democrats stopped calling themselves that..... virtualobserver Aug 2017 #28
The Alt-Left is Losing Its Mind - And People Are Noticing SecularMotion Aug 2017 #19
if they claim to be the left and push seth rich murder conspiracies, defend Russian election hacking JI7 Aug 2017 #22
I would agree with that. Warren DeMontague Aug 2017 #27
it's not like we dont have people who are really good at coming up with new names. Warren DeMontague Aug 2017 #30
Kick ck4829 Aug 2017 #31

WoonTars

(694 posts)
2. There is no such thing as the 'alt-left'..there are neo-nazis on one side...
Tue Aug 15, 2017, 06:37 PM
Aug 2017

...and everyone else on the other...

It is a right-wrong false equivalency. Period.

mvd

(65,159 posts)
6. Exactly
Tue Aug 15, 2017, 06:53 PM
Aug 2017

Alt-right people are bigots. The supposed alt-left people are not. "Alt-left" is a right wing term used to excuse the alt-right.

bdamomma

(63,797 posts)
38. yes, let's refrain
Wed Aug 16, 2017, 02:51 PM
Aug 2017

from using that term: alt left what total BS

Remember when they called us DemocRats, they have nothing else, what arrogant/ignorant people.

TubbersUK

(1,439 posts)
4. Yes, Yes, Yes
Tue Aug 15, 2017, 06:38 PM
Aug 2017

His goons having been pushing this term hard all day on social media.

They need it in general use to support their false equivalencies.

It's no coincidence that Trump also pushed it today.

 

melman

(7,681 posts)
5. That would be nice
Tue Aug 15, 2017, 06:50 PM
Aug 2017

But what I've seen instead is people saying he 'redefined it'. Because they didn't use it like he used it blah blah.


It's always been a bullshit made up term, always a slur, and only ever meant to be divisive. But the people who have been relentlessly throwing it around will never own up to that.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
14. What do YOU propose calling progressives who are not happy with some things about the DNC?
Tue Aug 15, 2017, 09:45 PM
Aug 2017

Progressive Democrats are not out to "destroy" the Democratic Party. The party needs to work with all factions of Democrats. And alienating a large group of Democrats is not going to help. It is well past time that we stop beating each other up and calling names. We have a f*&king crisis with this Idiot In Chief, and still you want to fight each other.

WTF!

Response to Curmudgeoness (Reply #14)

Warpy

(111,137 posts)
8. Get rid of all the euphemisms, also
Tue Aug 15, 2017, 06:58 PM
Aug 2017

You know, "purists" and "Bernie bros" and "far left." It would help a great deal.

Want to discuss policy differences within the party? Great! Just ditch the pejoratives.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
17. The problem is, arguing against things like single payer or a $15 min. wage or descheduling cannabis
Wed Aug 16, 2017, 04:47 AM
Aug 2017

doesn't play real well. Not among Democrats.

So, it becomes about drawing a cartoon caricature instead of talking specifics.

In 2004 it was the spectre of crazy peace symbol volvo-driving latte sippers for Howard Dean.

By 2016 it became "Bernie Bros".

JI7

(89,239 posts)
21. no it isn't. it's those who push the conspiracies like seth rich murder, defend Putin
Wed Aug 16, 2017, 05:15 AM
Aug 2017

and other areas where they are on the same side as the right.

they are the ones who attack the lattle liberal establishment .

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
23. if you say so.
Wed Aug 16, 2017, 05:20 AM
Aug 2017

If it's so important to have a clever name to delineate these fearsome beasts you have discovered, then maybe a better job could be done differentiating it from the derpy memery that was thrown at everyone who supported Bernie Sanders in the primaries last year.

JI7

(89,239 posts)
24. you think people who pushed those conspiracies actually supported sanders ? they were trolls
Wed Aug 16, 2017, 05:24 AM
Aug 2017

they wanted trump to win. their goal was to defeat clinton.

i kind of agree about the name since i don't see them as left at all . i see them as right wing trolls. so that would be a better description. they sure don't care about more liberal/pgoressive policies.

they revealed themselves when they supported trump but for anyone paying attention to what they said it was obvious before .

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
26. You're not hearing me, I think.
Wed Aug 16, 2017, 05:28 AM
Aug 2017

But we agree, it's a stupid name, and the people you describe aren't "left".

Personally, I have no love for Jill Stein any more than I did for Ralph Nader, like when he accepted Republican help to defeat Kerry in 2004. And I sure as shit have no warm fuzzies for anyone who helped the current clusterfuck get into the oval office.

Fact is, though, the bullshit name-calling has hurt our unity. The right wing trolls you mention could give a shit.

kcr

(15,314 posts)
35. Yes! It's not that hard.
Wed Aug 16, 2017, 02:48 PM
Aug 2017

I support progressive policies and manage not to get called those names. It's not being a lefty that gets the label. Don't be a Putin apologist. Don't be a party spoiler. Don't fall for and spread RW conspiracy theories.

Warpy

(111,137 posts)
32. I know, which is why I throw in the Eleanor Roosevelt paraphrase
Wed Aug 16, 2017, 02:38 PM
Aug 2017

and will continue to irritate the small minded by repeating it, that great minds discuss ideas, mediocre minds discuss events, and small minds discuss people.

Oh, there are some small minds on the left, also.

R B Garr

(16,950 posts)
33. Yes, ditch the divisive "corporatists" "neoliberals" "third way" also.
Wed Aug 16, 2017, 02:42 PM
Aug 2017

Just ditch the perjoratives.

Warpy

(111,137 posts)
37. Neoliberalism is an economic philosophy, a very destructive one
Wed Aug 16, 2017, 02:50 PM
Aug 2017

and Third Way is what conservatve, business friendly Democrats called themselves in the 90s. I'm afraid you are stuck with reading both. However, those terms should be used appropriately and in place of "corporatist," unless the term is being used to describe a set of policies, not people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Way

R B Garr

(16,950 posts)
40. That's laughable. It is used to mock groups of Democrats.
Wed Aug 16, 2017, 02:53 PM
Aug 2017

Just because you can link to it on the internet doesn't mean anything. I can also link to ideations about "progressives" that you are complaining about.

R B Garr

(16,950 posts)
42. Linking to Wikipedia is laughable when the common usage of those
Wed Aug 16, 2017, 03:05 PM
Aug 2017

ideas now is to mock groups of Democrats.

Reality is a thing. I could link to ideations about "progressives", also, which would be just as meaningful.

 

Ghost Dog

(16,881 posts)
43. Neoliberalism is real, and has history:
Wed Aug 16, 2017, 03:28 PM
Aug 2017
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/neoliberalism.asp

Neoliberalism is a policy model of social studies and economics that transfers control of economic factors to the private sector from the public sector. It takes from the basic principles of neoclassical economics, suggesting that governments must limit subsidies, make reforms to tax law in order to expand the tax base, reduce deficit spending, limit protectionism, and open markets up to trade. It also seeks to abolish fixed exchange rates, back deregulation, permit private property, and privatize businesses run by the state. Liberalism, in economics, refers to a freeing of the economy by eliminating regulations and barriers that restrict what actors can do. Neoliberal policies aim for a laissez-faire approach to economic development.

Neoliberalism has been used by various scholars, critics and analysts, mainly referring to an upspring of 19th century ideas connected to economic liberalism that began in the 1970s and 1980s. These ideals advocate for extensive economic liberalization and policies that extend the rights and abilities of the private sector over the public sector, specifically the shutting down of state and government power over the economy. Neoliberalism supports fiscal austerity, deregulation, free trade, privatization and greatly reduced government spending.

The popularity and support of neoliberalism is divided. This approach has most famously been connected to various economic policies introduced in the United Kingdom by Margaret Thatcher and in the United States by Ronald Reagan. Some academics and analysts, however, attribute the resurgence of neoliberal economic theories in the 1970s and 1980s to financialization and indicate that the financial crisis of 2008 and 2009 is ultimately a result of such an approach to the economy.

The exact meaning and usage of the term has changed throughout time. In its earliest sense, neoliberalism referred to an economic philosophy popular among 1930s European liberal scholars, a sort of middle road between classic liberalism and socialist planning. The use and popularity of the term "neoliberal" declined steadily, specifically in the 1960s. Neoliberalism gained popularity again in the 1980s, connected to Chilean economic reforms issued by Augusto Pinochet. During this time, the term gained a negatively slanted connotation and was used primarily by critics of market reform. The meaning of the term also shifted to indicate a more radical laissez-faire capitalist pool of ideas. Most scholars began to associate the term with Friedrich Hayek and Milton Friedman. This new meaning of neoliberalism, popular among Spanish-speaking scholars, diffused into the English-language study of the economy. However, the term is rarely heard in the United States.

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/neoliberalism.asp

R B Garr

(16,950 posts)
44. lol, it's used to mock people now. Reality is a thing. It is used divisively.
Wed Aug 16, 2017, 03:30 PM
Aug 2017

I could supply plenty of "real" links about progressives, but I bet they wouldn't stay up.

HughBeaumont

(24,461 posts)
36. +1,000
Wed Aug 16, 2017, 02:48 PM
Aug 2017

I always loved being called "Far Left" and a "purist" because I want a due human right that 31 other countries have and an adequate social safety net.

Initech

(100,035 posts)
12. Alt left was started by alt right trolls.
Tue Aug 15, 2017, 07:05 PM
Aug 2017

And the alt right trolls are also putting up fake Antifa sites to keep us fighting with each other.

 

Weekend Warrior

(1,301 posts)
13. Absolutely. Ideologies from Manchin to Turner have a common enemy.
Tue Aug 15, 2017, 07:08 PM
Aug 2017

They and we need to start acting like it and unify.

betsuni

(25,376 posts)
25. No no no, that's different.
Wed Aug 16, 2017, 05:28 AM
Aug 2017

Democrats and Democratic voters must be pummeled with silly buzzwords like neoliberal and third way and corporatist and constantly accused of being the same as or worse than Republicans, whereas it is very bad to ever say anything negative about Republicans and Republican voters. This is the New Rule. And the worst thing, the most offensive slur, is to call someone a "bro." This will not be tolerated.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
29. I suspect it would be tolerated, but it might be mocked.
Wed Aug 16, 2017, 05:44 AM
Aug 2017


I mean, it displays a kind of depressing lack of semantic creativity.

Not that "corporatist" is terribly creative, either, of course.

What's ironic is, having had some seriously corporate gigs in my day, corporations are FULL of bros, in my experience. Lousy with em, in fact. That's why they call the suit company Brooks Bros.

 

SecularMotion

(7,981 posts)
19. The Alt-Left is Losing Its Mind - And People Are Noticing
Wed Aug 16, 2017, 04:58 AM
Aug 2017
These commentators, most of whom came prominence in the 2016 election, all share a few things in common: they supported Bernie Sanders for the Democratic nomination, hated Hillary Clinton with every fiber of their being, and shrugged off Donald Trump as little more than a buffoon. Their views are closer to libertarianism than liberalism, and they share the alt-right’s hatred for war of any kind. But while they share some things with the alt-right - a tendency to claim they don't actually exist, ideological purity, and a mutual love of Hawaiian congresswoman and Assad apologist Tulsi Gabbard, they don't, by and large, voice the same kinds of overtly racist and anti-semitic jibes as their counterparts. (It's not that they don't hold views on those topics, but that's for another article.)

While many of them voted for Jill Stein, if they voted at all, some switched over to Donald Trump, like Cassandra Fairbanks, who voted for him after Bernie lost the primary. Fairbanks, a journalist who was recently accused of making a white supremacist hand gesture from the White House press room claims she knows "little" of Russian politics, but wrote several articles for Russian propaganda outlet Sputnik news, supporting Bernie Sanders before switching to Trump. In a recent Cosmopolitan profile, she fawned over the Pussy Grabber in Chief, comparing him to punk rock because they're both against the establishment. Currently, she writes for Breitbart offshoot Big League Politics, where she writes about "free speech activists" and the Seth Rich conspiracy. Given the way she changes her stances to suit whoever's paying her, it's clear that she has no ideology at all.

https://thedailybanter.com/2017/06/the-alt-left-is-losing-its-mind-and-people-are-noticing/

JI7

(89,239 posts)
22. if they claim to be the left and push seth rich murder conspiracies, defend Russian election hacking
Wed Aug 16, 2017, 05:15 AM
Aug 2017

and push other right wing crap they are pretty much the same as the right.

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