Mueller will get Trump, I said this before, and I will say it again.

[Stuart G]

I will add this,... that getting him will take some time....But,...Mueller will get Trump

And that will be clear to all..It will ironclad. No doubt at all..

Why?...Mueller is an ex head of the FBI, and has some experience in investigating people. A friend of his, and also an ex head of the FBI, was embarrassed and fired by Trump. Further, Mueller has hired some of the best and most experienced investigators in the country to get Trump..each experienced in special areas of investigation................including the mob...

Furthermore, Trump has made some mistakes in the last couple of years. His arrogance goes with what we see.. Mueller will find those mistakes and indict Jared and maybe Trump himself...

I will say it again. Mueller will get Trump. ..When Trump fires Mueller for indicting Jared, then Watergate will be repeated. Trump will resign......again..it may not be in ways we expect. or when we expect..but Mueller will get Trump

[Iliyah]

1. Agreed, but there will be a s**tload of bots, articles re: "fake news"

coming forth to keep us uneasy and disenfranchised.

[Stuart G]

3. Perhaps...but I think that when it happens..most will agree..it will be clear..

He has to go...I don't know when, or how..I believe it will happen....In the Watergate scandal there was a moment when there was a 15 minute gap in the tape of one conversation..

No one knows how that happened. But when that was exposed, and it seemed like that gap might contain important and damning information..the story was clear. Nixon had to resign..Something like that will happen. No, I don't know when or how, but Trump is clumsier than Nixon...not as refined at covering sh*t as Nixon...and consequently...Trump will go...

[badhair77]

2. I'm banking on this.

I remember how long Watergate took. I'm holding on to my faith in Mueller.

[Orangeutan]

4. As long as the Repug's covertly have Mueller's back, he will get his man.

But there will come a day when Repug's have to either help him or let the country go down the tubes. And it's an open question which way they will choose.

[Stuart G]

8. I believe a number of pukes will have Mueller's back..

Not all, but many..that will be enough. I believe that in the end, the pukes will be at war with themselves about getting rid of Trump. What we see, is that they don't want to admit that Trump did anything wrong..
.....but some, will come out and attack Trump..It will get ugly, but those that attack, will be talking about for the "good of the country" "Trump needs to examine all of this." What they will be saying, is Trump needs to resign....Two or three will say that exactly..and loud.

and this is the future..I could be totally wrong, but that is what I think will happen..

[blm]

9. It will come down to BushInc.

and the network they control, which is still more powerful than most any other network that exists.

[calimary]

33. Welcome DU, Orangeutan!

Love your screen name! I'll say it again - gotta hand it to The Donald - he sure does inspire creativity.

[Orangeutan]

70. Thanks!

[AlexSFCA]

5. even so

rethugs won't impeach him regardless of findings

[BigmanPigman]

19. I am believing that more and more as each minute passes!

[mnmoderatedem]

31. I have the opposite view

maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but he's alienating repubs in the Senate and they may reach a point where enough is fucking enough already. Plus with all the chaos, most would rather have President Pence anyway. Not a great alternative for us, but at least we'd get the shitgibbon out of there.

[EL34x4]

74. They might want Pence...

...but no GOP congressman wants to go home and try to explain to his constituents why he voted to impeach Trump.

Seriously, their personal safety would be at risk, least of all their political future.

[liquid diamond]

43. Trump will walk just like Bush did.

Those who think republicans will do the right thing are either naive or new to politics.

[Ohiya]

67. Remember Reagan

I don't think that Trump is even suspected of doing anything as bad as what Reagan got away with.

[annabanana]

88. Handing over the Country to Russia for a handful of $beans$ strikes ME

as pretty damn bad.

[Ohiya]

90. I agree 100%

I would like nothing better than to see Trump languish the rest of his life in prison. I am still bitter over how the Reagan Scandals played out, and it irritates me to no end that Bush and Cheney are still free. Hopefully, this time we will nail the traitorous criminals.

[blm]

6. I agree, but, as a longtime Mueller watcher I will weigh in with this..

he will do it for two HUGE reasons - his personal legacy, and as a longtime made man for BushInc. This particular investigation into Trump's mountain of corruption will buff out the tarnish he accrued working in the 80s and early 90s to deep six those of BushInc (like BCCI).

I have no doubt Mueller will get Trump. His mission is clear, imo. And, for this, I wish him godspeed.

[gratuitous]

7. I want him to take his time and make his case airtight

So that in the time to come, there's no one but a few bitter enders to complain that Trump was railroaded or that he wasn't really guilty of anything. There are still a few Nixon hacks kicking around (one of them in the White House again) who think he got a raw deal. Trump deserves no more than that.

[Stuart G]

10. I believe you are correct..and Mueller will take his time..

and it will be exactly as you say.."...no one but a few bitter enders to complain that Trump was railroaded or that he wasn't really guilty of anything"

... ..you are correct!!! and have said it better than anyone could..

[jrthin]

11. I appreciate this post, as I was about to feel that all is lost. nt

[Stuart G]

12. All is not lost...Mueller needs time to get that iron clad information.

I believe that Mueller will get him, and get him in ways we don't know yet..

[L. Coyote]

18. But, the obstruction of justice charge will be brought by the grand jury also.

I expect the first ones to drop to be guilty pleas, esp. Flynn, with reduced charges/sentencing in exchange for incriminating testimony.

One big crime will be illegal campaign actions influencing the election outcome. Hopefully conspiracy hacking the DNC, et.al.

[Shanti Mama]

13. I agree, but it won't have anything to do with Jim Comey's firing

It will be because it's the right thing to do for the country.
The firing of a good friend of his will not be motivation, except as it equals obstruction. Mueller is too good to let personal vendettas affect him.

[Stuart G]

15. You are correct.."..it won't have anything to do with Jim Comey's firing"

I believe the evidence will be so clear ..that .."It will be because it's the right thing to do for the country."

hopefully, this will not take too long..but it might.

[pangaia]

14. Links please?

[Mister Ed]

50. It's clear to me that the OP is expressing his personal opinion.

It's not really possible to provide a link to one's personal opinion.

Unless maybe a link like this one:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029526169

[pangaia]

53. Guess i should have included tge sarcasm thingy

But didn't think i needed to...

[Mister Ed]

62. Doh! Sorry to be so dense.

I wouldn't have been surprised to see a demand like that on DU these days. But I was surprised to see it from you. Now I get it. Duh!

[pangaia]

79. Ha ha..i am honored.

But i know what u mean...about it is getting hard to tell sometimes....

[L. Coyote]

16. NY AG Schneiderman will get Trump too. No pardon remedy there.

[USALiberal]

17. Give us a time-frame. n/t

[leftynyc]

63. Can't

Financial crimes are very complicated and Mueller knows his case HAS to be airtight (it will be). When you're aiming for the "king", you better not miss. Mueller will not miss. Frankly, in terms of politics, the best time for all this to come down is this exact time next year so I'm content to be patient knowing the team Mueller has put together has outstanding credentials on these kinds of matters and they didn't leave their high paying jobs for nothing. They left them to make history.

[SayItLoud]

20. Yes...but

tRUMP will pardon everyone starting with his family, then his secretary down to the "head of security" he brought from rump organ to WH. ( whom I suspect is carrying for him sniff sniff) . We NEED state level indictments to fry his ass. He can't pardon anyone at that level.

[Ligyron]

30. If he does the multiple pardon thing then the pukes will impeach.

For real.

[Wednesdays]

51. At which point he resigns

And Pence pardons him.
We've been down this alley once before.

[YOHABLO]

21. Hurry ! Hurry ! Before he puts us in WWIII !

[FakeNoose]

57. Don't worry about that

If Cheeto tries to push the nuke button, General Kelly will take out his gun and shoot him.

The Generals all know he's crazy and they won't let him start WW3.

[ancianita]

22. The FBI always get their man. They have the lawyers, forensic accountants, agents in 51

countries and prosecutorial fire power. It's Mueller Time.

[samnsara]

23. if trump resigns what happens to the investigation?

[Le Gaucher]

39. It will proceed and trump won't control pardons

[Honeycombe8]

24. Mueller is not "out to get" Trump. He's investigating some allegations and will go where...

the evidence takes him. If the evidence doesn't take him there, he won't bend things to make it go there.

We're lucky he seems to be an honest man. We could not have hoped for more. But let's not get carried away and think he's on a particular team, other than executing the job he's been given.

I'm still amazed that Rosenstein chose Mueller, and did it so quickly. He had obviously given this some thought beforehand, and had spoken to Mueller before, and was ready to move on it. He's a smart man and seemingly not on Trump's loyalty kabob as someone Trump can dictate to.

[Equinox Moon]

25. Timing matters

If trump and his cronies are indicted too soon, they will be pardoned by trump or his republican replacement. If they are indicted when Dems have the executive branch, then no pardons. That is how I see it.

[flibbitygiblets]

46. There's always state charges!

only a governor can pardon those. In N.Y., where the majority of crimes occurred... not a chance.

[Wednesdays]

52. In which case, tRump will just sit in the White House and say,

"Okay, New York, come and get me!"
He may lose Trump Tower, but it's small price to pay for him to skate, so long as he never sets foot in New York again.

[pbmus]

26. It's Mueller Time...

[Jarqui]

27. I have some doubts Mueller will be the one who is still around

when he goes down.

Like the pardon of Arpaio, he'll fire Mueller in a desperate act to buy time.
And he'll probably pardon a bunch of his gang - flagrantly, just like he did Arpaio - again, desperately trying to buy time. He might even try to pardon himself.

Maybe it will happen at the state level. I think they'll eventually get him.

There's a four year old in the Oval office. He's going to throw a lot of temper tantrums, lash out and do everything he can to avoid punishment for his actions. But they'll eventually nail him as he's done too many things wrong.

[Stuart G]

29. So..he pardons .." a bunch of his gang...to buy time"..and fires Mueller..

then what?.. ...but I agree..."they'll eventually nail him as he's done too many things wrong."

I believe he will resign at some point. Yes, it will be ugly, and he may resign. But if Mueller doesn't get him, then the next one will. as you say..too many things to cover up..

[Stargleamer]

28. Trump will pardon Flynn manafort trump Jr and then himself

And the Republicans won't ever impeach

[Stuart G]

32. I am not sure he can pardon himself...???

..He would have to get Pence to pardon him..after he resigns.

[klook]

34. Interesting TIME profile of Mueller, from 2001:

Robert Mueller: Straight Shooter With a Moving Target

This is not a guy I'd want pursuing my ass.

[Stuart G]

37. The link above.."Straight Shooter With a Moving Target" is outstanding..

Read through and you will see Mueller is extremely confident, honest person of incredible perseverance, and he will get his man..His background..Viet Nam, prosecutor, and investigator show that he will get the "moving target..and therefore, he will get Trump. Mueller does not give up and this offers even more evidence that Trump is in deep trouble, far more than he realizes ...

Ok...how about this paragraph from the above article.........

After President Bush's defeat in 1992, Mueller accepted a partnership in the blue-chip Boston law firm of Hale and Doar. To the surprise of his former associates, in 1995 he applied for a position in the homicide section of the U.S. Attorney's office in the District of Columbia. This was a huge comedown for a man who had supervised 900 Justice Department prosecutors, but Margolis says Mueller was caught up in the idealism of public service, explaining, "There's just too many young people dying violently in this city, and I want to do my share to put an end to that. I feel I'm obligated." ....................................................

So here is again. He finds himself obligated to get someone who might be very difficult to get..Public Service again..but this time, in service to all of us. He has a lot of experience and drive and the article gives up the total impression that.....he will get his man

[klook]

38. That passage struck me, too.

Trump has weaseled out of many a snare before, but he's got a hell of a lot of investigative firepower bearing down on him now. He may still go Scot free, but at the rate he's alienating allies (and with what appears to be a past littered with criminal activities) the odds are against him.

I think he knows this, and that's why he's trying to create an actual fascist dictatorship that will keep him propped up.

[Poiuyt]

35. If he does, Trump will become a martyr for the fascist cause

The Trumpists in America see him as a cult figure more than anything else. If Trump goes down, they will still cling to his every word.

[Stuart G]

40. I am not so sure of that...If Muller gets Trump...then the evidence will be overwhelming..

In a way, like the sheriff....The sheriff broke the law. He was ordered by the court to do certain procedures that followed the law......Those procedures were obvious to all that the sheriff was breaking the law...

He was going to be sentenced. Trump pardoned him..The sheriff is no martyr.. He broke the law, did not follow proper procedures, and when the court ordered him to do so, he still did not follow them. That sheriff is not some kind of martyr to anyone who knows even a little about him....

If Trump goes down, the great majority of people will see the evidence and agree. That evidence will be iron clad and beyond question..So...20 percent stay with Trump..That means 80 percent will agree with the prosecutor..I think Nixon had 17 to 20 percent at the end. Trump will have the same....Both are crooks in my opinion.

[Poiuyt]

45. I'm more cynical than you are, Stuart

It doesn't matter how much evidence there is. His supporters won't believe it. Just look at climate change. People believe what they want to believe, no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary.

I've been following politics since McGovern in 1972, and I've never seen the cult-like following that Trump has. The 35% follow him like they are in rapture. This cult of personality, of course, is one of the characteristics of fascism.

BTW, Nixon had a more unbiased press that helped bring him down. Trump has Fox News that will cover for all his lies and flaws.

[leftynyc]

65. Who gives a crap if the deplorables don't

believe it. As long he's gone, along with Pence. Then we work on every single republican that supported him and tie him around their pathetic necks.

[phylny]

77. I agree with you. His supporters will deny reality forever.

It's the rest of us, including Independents and moral Republicans, who will see, believe, and move forward.

[ailsagirl]

36. I sincerely hope Mueller is watching out for his safety

[Stuart G]

41. I agree. nt.

[Nitram]

42. The problem is, we'll have to fight Trump's pardon's of himself and his minions in court.

Could take long enough for him to complete his term in office. Our only real hope at this point is the Republicans have some remnant of love of country left inside those little souls of theirs.

[davekriss]

44. I wish I was as sure as you

Nixon faced a Democratic congress. It's different today. Not only does Trump have a Republican congress, this particular crop are venal, self-serving hacks.

[edhopper]

47. Trump or the GOP

will stop Muelller before that happens.

You are under the false assumption that the US still has the rule of law.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

48. I love this OP. Thannnk you!

Patience is realllllly hard.

[AllaN01Bear]

49. on that day i will celebrate. next pence.

[WinkyDink]

54. How to Impeach Trump: Tell him that Obama wanted to be impeached, but failed at it.

[R B Garr]

55. I love this post. You're so right about Mueller making

his case airtight. He is making history and the best lawyers around are helping.

[Laffy Kat]

56. When, for God's sake, when? nt

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

58. I will believe it when or if it happens.

I recall Fitzmass, and all the accompanied disappointment. So until it actually happens, I'll be in a corner filing my nails.

[Awsi Dooger]

59. It's not going to happen

Trump has been a life long liar and cheat. He surrounds himself with people who will lie and cheat to protect him and protect the cause. Mueller would need to have bombshell after bombshell, and unless they are accompanied by videotaped undeniable proof the Republican congress and simplistic base will deny and dismiss.

I don't care about specifics...of Mueller's investigation, or his history, or his associates, or anything else. I realize that comes across as bizarre but it's always served me well. People who fixate on specifics often have a brutal sense of big picture probability:

Presidents almost never leave office. They don't want to leave and the system makes it damn near impossible to remove them.

[leftynyc]

66. I don't think you understand something

Nobody was more surprised on election night than donnie himself. He NEVER thought ANY of this was going to come out because why would it? Then he would just be a private citizen again. That's why he didn't think anything about lying regarding his contacts (or his campaigns and surrogate's) ties to Russia. Not that he worried he'd get caught - he didn't anyone would give a crap. Now that he's in the oval office, he's being held to account for those lies - and for no other reason. Honestly, I'd rather have a very weak donnie in there than have true believer pence.

[Bladewire]

60. LOCK HIM UP!

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

61. Yes!!

It will be Fitzmas all over again!

[MFM008]

64. And he knows it.

.......

[The Blue Flower]

68. The shadow of Mueller stalking him has him spooked

It's causing him to act like a scared, desperate man, engaging in self-incriminating actions. The Arpaio pardon is just one more obstruction of justice.

[yuiyoshida]

71. Lets say he does, what next?

Will Republicans put party over country?

[Stuart G]

72. I think no matter what happens..the Republicans will indeed put party over country.

Why do I believe that?...That is what they always do..or...maybe the needs of the rich, over the needs of everyone else...

[yuiyoshida]

73. Yup

True that.

[Maeve]

75. This is one of the few things that keeps me going

If I stop believing this....I think I will sink in that big black hole and not resurface.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

76. I am sure a man like Trump would offend a man like Mueller

I am sure a man like Trump would offend a man like Mueller just as a man like Capone offended a man like Ness or how a man like Lucky Luciano offended a man like Thomas Dewey.

The question is what will Congress do with his report.

[SpankMe]

78. Trump will be out?

That would be a wet dream for me. But, Michael Moore thinks Trump will be a full two-termer. At this point, I agree with Moore. The country is toast. I hope my two sons move to New Zealand.

[SHRED]

80. Yes but sadly it may be too late

The damage done already is building.
Trump may engage in a nuclear war.

[Scruffy1]

81. I wish I had your confidence in our legal system.

I'm already suspecting a white wash. After all he is a Republican. I think the financial ties with the Russians are so murky that it would be hard to make a ""pro quid quo" Also, Trump is only the tip of the iceberg. There are so many involved in this that I think if the truth were known the "leadership" of the GOP is indictable. i just don't think that anyone has the guts to let the American public know that our political system is entirely corrupt and has been for a long time. At the best, they will take down Manforte and a few others and make the claim that Trump was not directly involved. It's the old "plausible deniabilty". What I think will happen is Trump will resign as part of the cover up to avoid further investigation. It's been the standard in DC for most of my life that if you leave your ok. That leaves us stuck with the Pence, who is just as incompetent.
The real problem we face is a complicit media who have normalized the insane. Remember, the thing in the oval office got 60,000,000 of your fellow Americans to vote for him. I don't have much faith in the electorate that gets all of their shallow views from TV sound bites. They've been duped for years and never learned. I remember 1994 very well. I told my mother that they would get a few years before they were exposed as complete frauds and the public woke up. Well, it urned out the public is comatose and we got W. Hell, the majority supported the Iraq War for some reason I never could figure out.

[Texin]

82. Stuart G, in NORMAL circumstances I'd agree with you. But these ain't normal times.

The rethugs in the Senate and the Congress may be pained and strained by this buffoon, but they are not showing any movement toward stopping his agenda because, for the most part, his agenda is theirs. His actions may not be palatable to them, but those in and of themselves are not demonstrable of any desire to be shed of him in lieu of someone, namely Pence, who clearly would be more palatable to them. And the move by the JD with Sessions' move to arm the civilian police forces with military armament to fight 'civilian unrest' is a signal to me that 'rump is getting ready to hunker down. Add to that the Friday night pardon of Arpaio portends to me that he was signaling to those in first jeopardy to Mueller's investigation that he will definitely issue pardons on their behalf even if the investigation is not complete and the criminal prosecutions are even underway. I think his own self-preservation will prevent him from doing anything else. He's a cornered wharf rat and he's about to get more desperate. I am fully convinced that he will sack Mueller. It's just a matter of time. And when that happens, there'll be some hell to pay, but it won't happen to him. It will be suffered by any and all who take to the streets to stage protest marches to be confronted with police forces armed to the teeth with crowd control heavy equipment and military equipment designed for deployment in those instances. We the citizens are the ones who will be punished and persecuted. These are not normal times, but we've seen the likes of them before in Germany under Hitler and, more recently in Turkey with Erdogan and with other fascist regimes in history and since. I'm pretty convinced we've crossed a Rubicon in this country and there is no turning back because there is nothing remaining of the "old" U.S. to turn back to at this point.

[Caliman73]

83. I agree. Not sure the consequences for Trump will be sufficient but he will be got.

People are frustrated because it is "taking too long" but the reality is that Mueller needs to be 100% right on this and how he does it. It is a one shot deal and if Mueller makes mistakes, he realizes that it will aid Trump's narrative of the "corrupt Washington insiders trying to get him" so the evidence, the witnesses, and all of the information need to be airtight before he goes to Congress, so that if Congress does nothing, then it will be on them and not because of any glaring problems with the investigation.

[Loge23]

84. Mueller will find enough, IMO, but it will go nowhere.

The corruption and malfeasance on behalf of the republicans is too deeply ingrained with their majorities in the House and Senate; add that observation to the very likely probability that the #IPOTUS will shut this down before the conclusion of the work.
The conman may also issue blanket pardons to the likely suspects: Flynn, Mnafort, Jared, etc. Outrageous? Hey, why not - look at the Arpaio pardon!
The best case scenario is the House flip in 2018 - a very distant possibility in a country that has lost the ability to conduct fair elections.

Real Patriots, like many on these boards, are to be commended for standing firm on the decks of a sinking ship of state; but the ship is most definitely sinking and only a miracle will save it now. Without hope, what are we?

[lunatica]

85. I try to feel that way but sometimes...

Trump has gotten away with so much all his life that I think he must be charmed or have a pact with the devil.

I fear he will serve about as much time as Sheriff Joe has. Exactly none. I'm sure he's securing a pardon for himself.

[LiberalLovinLug]

86. If I had a nickle for every post in the early 2000's that ran with an OP headline....

"Bush is going down!"

"Cheney is going to jail!"

"Rove will be arrested!"




Its a free board, so you can be as optimistic as you like. Believe in whatever makes you able to sleep at night. And even though it will be a day of boundless celebration IF there comes a day when Trump is stripped of power, and better yet handed a criminal conviction, I simply cannot put myself on the rollercoaster again. I'll have to see it to believe it.

[Doug the Dem]

87. As long as he checks his brakes every day

And buys himself some Kevlar.

[NewJeffCT]

89. I really hope you are correct

but, if Jared is indicted, I see Trump immediately pardoning him, even if it's 163 counts of money laundering, colluding with a hostile foreign power, obstruction of justice and more...

If Mueller indicts anybody else, Trump will take out his pardon pen and pardon everyone in the White House for "crimes they may have committed" and dare Congress to do anything about it. They would need to get Paul Ryan and another 23 or 24 Republicans to go along with impeachment hearings. Then, you would need 2/3 of the Senate to convict, or 19 Republicans to join 46 Democrats and the 2 independents.