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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHilarious Joel Osteen memes
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
This one got me
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http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_59a902f8e4b0354e44093d3b
Docreed2003
(16,850 posts)"Prosperity Gospel" indeed
Skittles
(153,113 posts)Last edited Sat Sep 2, 2017, 02:29 PM - Edit history (1)
they're so freaking OBVIOUS
Docreed2003
(16,850 posts)It's the PT Barnum schtick wrapped in the cloak of "Christianity". These charlatans are taking advantage of the most vulnerable all in the name of "religion". What they are selling bears zero resemblance to the actual scriptures of Christ, which any person, no matter their religious beliefs or lack there of, SHOULD be able to see clearly. Yet, there are always those who are charismatic enough in their message to convince people that "their message" is the true interpretation.
My great aunt was a follower of Jim Jones in his early days in Indianapolis. She was a civil rights activist and was lured into his message of racial unity. She became so enthralled in the message that she followed him to California, throughout all of his moves there, and came close to following him to Jonestown. She didn't, but the experience left her broken. I never met her until decades later. In her quest to set her mind straight, she had lost all contact with her family and missed the deaths of many of her siblings, including my grandmother. My grandmother went to her grave believing her sister had died at Jonestown a decade earlier. That's the power of the charismatic leader and I think it speaks to the scary potential of the cult of Trump!
On a lighter note, my wife and I joke frequently that we're going to start a church called "Stairway to Heaven"...ala Osteen's church! Lol
Skittles
(153,113 posts)I sympathize - I am lucky to have no family members following garbage like this - I would be beside myself if I did
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/30/opinion/trump-osteen-harvey-church.html?mcubz=0
Docreed2003
(16,850 posts)Like I said, she was my great aunt and I grew up with stories of her being a Jones follower and presumed dead in Jonestown. My grandmother died in '88 and in '96, the year I graduated high school, this lady showes up at our family reunion, it's a huge affair...my granny was one of thirteen kids, and everyone is shocked that it's my great aunt that had literally disappeared almost twenty years before! It was a truly tough thing for the family to swallow. My mother, the unexpected baby of our family, refuses to acknowledge her, mainly because of the torment my grandmother suffered wondering about her, while my uncle keeps in contact with her regularly. Perhaps it's my empathetic nature, but I truly do hurt for her. She was clearly broken by the experience and deals with unresolved mental health issues as a result, but we're seeing this type of crap play out through Trump and his cult, a man who has stated numerous times that PT Barnum was a great influence on him!
murielm99
(30,717 posts)I did lose a friend at Jonestown. I have mentioned that here before. I watched people join the Moonies when I was young.
I soured on cults a long time ago. My revulsion includes people who follow political leaders with cult-like devotion. No politician or candidate is perfect, and we need to realize that. Any leader who puts themselves in the place of God, or allows their followers to do so is suspect in my mind.
Docreed2003
(16,850 posts)Perhaps it's because of my families experience, but I have a healthy dose of skepticism for charismatic leaders. I also have a deep interest in studying movements like Jones' to attempt to understand why reasonable people would willingly fall into that trap. Make no mistake, Joel Osteen isn't much different than Jim Jones. The difference is Osteen has chosen to ride the money train as long as he can, and he's obscenly successful at doing so!
murielm99
(30,717 posts)It helps to have a common definition of what constitutes a cult.
This article is good: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2009/may/27/cults-definition-religion
I first studied about cults by reading a Christian author, Martin, who wrote "The Kingdom of the Cults." That books has been through several revisions.
Max Weber also studied cult behavior and wrote about it. So did a woman named Margaret Singer, who wrote about cults for the American Psychiatric Association. Robert Lifton has also written about cults.
No matter which definition you choose, I think it is always best to understand that there is a charismatic leader who eventually takes on the role of God. No one is allowed to question him. The groups are exclusive and often secretive. They may coerce their members by threatening to shun or disfellowship them.
I don't think all religions are cults. I am a Christian, and would run, not walk away from any church that started displaying cult like behavior.
murielm99
(30,717 posts)Their heads are up their asses so far that they can't hear you when you point out the obvious about these charlatans.
One of them is a lifelong Democrat who voted for 45 because she does not like Hillary's stand on abortion. When I pointed out that the Democrats have always been pro-choice, she did not hear me. I guess she is too busy reading her Bible every day.
I am a Christian, and I have no use for people like Osteen.
Docreed2003
(16,850 posts)marylandblue
(12,344 posts)They want to see a God who acts like a giant ATM in the sky, and Osteen helps them see it. It's a win-win!
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)underpants
(182,627 posts)Osteen literally fell into it. His father, who started the church, died suddenly and Joel literally pulled his face out of hookers and blow to take over. He has no divinity training and has devoted no time to study it. He's all vague generalities like a motivational speaker. I wasn't aware of him until an evangelical i used to work with went off on him "He doesn't know scripture!" It drives them crazy. They see it too.
Docreed2003
(16,850 posts)I've followed his sad act for years and I've been astonished at how he's able to sway folks with such a bare minimum understanding of scripture. That folks are picking up on that, even if they are evangelical, is encouraging!
BannonsLiver
(16,313 posts)It'll make sense. These States (and others like them) have poorly funded public education systems and are high in every index you don't want to be high in - illiteracy, health problems like heart disease and diabetes, poverty etc.
fertile ground for slime like osteen.
Skittles
(153,113 posts)don't even get me started
BannonsLiver
(16,313 posts)So we both have seen it then.
underpants
(182,627 posts)Osteen literally fell into it. His father, who started the church, died suddenly and Joel literally pulled his face out of hookers and blow to take over. He has no divinity training and has devoted no time to study it. He's all vague generalities like a motivational speaker. I wasn't aware of him until an evangelical i used to work with went off on him "He doesn't know scripture!" It drives them crazy. They see it too.
Bengus81
(6,928 posts)And Falwell,and Swaggart and and......
dhill926
(16,314 posts)L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Anyone who follows this asshole after this deserves to be conned out of their money.
bobbieinok
(12,858 posts)It/he has a national and international reputation.
Common Houston area question: 'where do you go to church?' A point of pride to answer 'Lakewood.'
IMO many who attend will be embarassed to admit they go there.
I suspect those wno attend are upper-mid and upper class.
Would be interesting to know how many members have been flooded out and are in shelters.
Also, how many blacks or Hispanics attend the church.
Lotusflower70
(3,077 posts)Lotusflower70
(3,077 posts)Norbert
(6,038 posts)Something like,
"People, you don't understand. This is a TAX shelter."
longship
(40,416 posts)Complete douchebag.
R&K
dsc
(52,152 posts)Jimbo101
(776 posts)The main story is debunked (No, He didn't sail his yacht through Houston during Harvey - after all it would have been too windy)
Houston Chronicle
You don't need Dr. Cal Lightman (Lie to Me) to tell that he's having a problem with the truth.
unblock
(52,126 posts)but i might be confusing him with tim allen. so hard to tell them apart....
yonder
(9,657 posts)underpants
(182,627 posts)Spot on
Motley13
(3,867 posts)was there.
All these blood sucking, money grubbing parasitic, hypocrites make me furious. And the fools fall for it.
underpants
(182,627 posts)Let's see. Beds needed. I have beds.
TexasBushwhacker
(20,146 posts)He has zero cash flow.
blueinredohio
(6,797 posts)got touched and healed by him. She died from kidney cancer.
Motley13
(3,867 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Paladin
(28,243 posts)Tactical Peek
(1,207 posts)underpants
(182,627 posts)TexasBushwhacker
(20,146 posts)are the charlatan pastors?