It might be time to stop honoring Columbus

[edhopper]

Surely Italian Americans can find a more worthy hero to symbolize their culture.

[Hoyt]

1. From what I've read about Columbus' enslaving, cruelty, raping, murdering -- I'd be fine with it.

I'm of the same opinion for founding fathers like Jefferson who talked of liberty and freedom, then went home to beat and rape his slaves.

[haveahart]

6. Most of us Native American never honored him in the first place. Ask my grandmother and her mother.

[HipChick]

2. Are we just learning this...Christopher Columbus is a damn, blasted liar

another whitewashing attempt at history

Christopher Columbus is a damn, blasted liar Christopher Columbus is a damn, blasted liar Yes Jah He is saying that He's the first one Who discovered Jamaica I and I say that, "What about the Arawak Indians.. and the few black man who were round here before him?"

[leftofcool]

3. My people have never honored this rapist and murderer

[oppressedproletarian]

4. Way past time. Replace with Indigenous Peoples Day. n/t

[edhopper]

5. Columbus Day

is a catch-all to honor Italian Americans.
They are the ones that defend him and they need to pick a new honoree to represent them.

That said, you aren't wrong about a Native American Day.

[treestar]

10. there's day in June -

I think it is St. Anthony's. They could take that day. In Wilmington, Delaware, there is a big festival on that day. And I imagine elsewhere too. So it is more equivalent to St. Patrick's day.

[edhopper]

19. In NY we have

San Genero. Fun time in Little Italy.

[oberliner]

7. What about Italian-American Heritage Day?

Maybe we can have both.

[Sneederbunk]

8. How about no holiday on October 12?

Not gong to happen.

[edhopper]

9. What is

not going to happen?

[RhodeIslandOne]

12. Columbus Day is barely recognized already

Most people I know work a regular day and quite a few do not get holiday pay for it and never notice.

[edhopper]

17. What about all the statues,

schools and monuments?

[RhodeIslandOne]

20. The only thing I was talking about was the day itself

Most people forget about it.

Don't tell me you want the capital of Ohio renamed.

[edhopper]

21. Yes

I think Ohiovania or Buckeyeville sound good.

[RhodeIslandOne]

23. No, keep it Columbus

Name it after the guy who wrote "Gremlins".

[maveric]

11. How about Enrico Fermi Day?

[Brother Buzz]

13. How about Luciano Pavarotti Day?

He was born on October 12.

[RhodeIslandOne]

24. How about Enrico Pallazzo?

[Brother Buzz]

27. I believe that nimrod, Enrico Pallazzo, was in the NYC replay booth Thursday night

https://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2017/9/1/16243544/umpire-replay-brandon-crawford-home-run

[lunatica]

14. He isn't a hero in Mexico or South America and never has been

A great deal of the modern problems that Mexico and South America have are directly related to Cristobal Colon's coming and to the Spanish government's subsequent actions. Spain is the home of the Conquistadors like Hernan Cortez and Pizarro.

Italy had very little to do with it. It was Queen Isabella of Spain who paid for Colon's ships and journey. She also started the Spanish Inquisition. She was a devout old time Catholic.

Conquistadors like Hernan Cortez and Fernando Pizarro destroyed indigenous civilizations and cultures in order to enrich themselves. Hernan Cortez was a fugitive from Spain where he was a wanted man. They stripped the country of gold and silver and committed genocide on the natives.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isabella_I_of_Castile

[oberliner]

29. And yet Colombia hasn't changed its name

And they do have a celebration every year.

[AngryAmish]

15. Would you accept Vinny Barbarino?

[clu]

16. this is taking it too far IMO

nt

[edhopper]

18. Did you watch the video

or read about what Columbus was really like?

Or that he did not "discover America"?

Do you think a murderer, rapist should be honored as he is?

[clu]

22. history is replete with such types

and what does removing the monument or the statue do? obviate the need to talk about these events in history? if anything they should (and can) be learning examples


edit: I don't live around NY so I don't know the local significance of Columbus day but I know they have a parade up there

[edhopper]

25. Monuments are put up to honor people

They say that the people deserve adulation. And there is a lot of resistance to speaking the truth about those enshrined.
Look at the pushback to removing the racist traitors from the Confederacy who received statues ( mainly to push Jim Crow)
Do you think the absence of monuments to Hitler will stop people learning from what he did.

It's not just Columbus Day. It's Columbus Circle with a statue honoring him. It's the Knoights of Columbus. who stand for Italian American pride.

Should Columbus really be the symbol of this?

[Not Ruth]

26. LA did

Indigenous Peoples Day now

I believe that the Columbus statue near me was decapitated recently.

[Calculating]

28. How about changing it to "Vikings Day" or something

You know, the guys who ACTUALLY discovered America. Not that monster Columbus who went on a big slavery/rape/murder spree against the natives.

[edhopper]

30. Columbus Day

was created for Italian Americans, they should pick a better honoree.

[OnDoutside]

34. Or St Brendan, who got there before the Vikings ;)

[csziggy]

31. Rather than honor the man, educate about the Columbian Exchange

That disrupted the ecology, technology, economy, and population of most of the world. The exchange of diseases decimated the native population of the Americas, resulting in 90-95% loss of population. That was why European invaders could so quickly control two continents that may have had a population larger than all of Europe of the time.

The exchange of plants, insects, and animals altered the ecology of most of the world. Old World species such as grasses, horses, cows, and grains invaded the Americas as quickly as American maize (corn), potatoes, turkeys, and other crops were spread across the rest of the world. The great deaths of Native Americans changed the ecology of the American continents since they had managed the land in ways that are only becoming understood.

One theory is that the Little Ice Age of the 1600s may have been a reverse greenhouse effect - American Indians regularly burned off forests and undergrowth in order to create open areas for crops or to encourage better foraging for animals to hunt. The concept is that when the cultures of the Americas collapsed due to huge losses of populations, that regular burning stopped, lowering the greenhouse effect of the carbon pumped into the atmosphere, and causing cooling of the planet until the Industrial Revolution began pumping ever more vast amounts of greenhouse gases to create our current global warming crisis.

Recently I read 1491 by Charles Mann which covered the conditions in the Americas prior to and at the point of Columbus' first voyage. Now I am reading Mann's 1493 which is very much about the Columbian Exchange and the globalization that followed that first voyage. I'm just now reading his discussion of the economic impact of the vast quantities of silver taken from South America and how it impacted the European continent and trade with China through contacts in the Philippines.

The Columbian Exchange today would be decried because of the ecological impact it had - but it is a done thing and the long term impact should be studied and understood. https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-by-era/american-indians/essays/columbian-exchange

[edhopper]

32. Good post!

[pressbox69]

33. How about an Al Capone Day?

Although his hit count was less than CC's.

[democratisphere]

35. Columbus Day should be replaced with Vikings Day.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

37. Or St. Brendan's Day

"Some say" that he landed in North America in the sixth century, way before Lief or Eric.

Anyway, since he's Irish, it's another good reason to drink.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan

[Adrahil]

42. Well, we KNOW the Vikings were here.

Many think the Irish came, but the evidence is thin, and not universally accepted.

[Nevernose]

36. I say leave the statues

And add a plaque that says, "This man raped, murdered, and enslaved millions. Never forget this monstrosity."

Isabella specifically told him not to take slaves. He did anyway. Ferdinand and Isabella eventually fired Columbus because of all the murder and torture. To put it another way: the people who ran the Spanish Inquisition thought he was too cruel and violent.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

38. No more District of Columbia, no proposed state named Columbia

Re-merge the district into Maryland and we'll forget all about this "Columbus" nonsense.

Like the part that got re-merged into Virginia, we'll forget it ever happened.

[madinmaryland]

40. No. It's should be the state of Potomac or Anaconda.

[krispos42]

39. How about Galileo?

Seems that he was a great Italian. Didn't seem to conquer anybody or kill anybody, and had consensual sex with an adult woman who was within a normal age range of his. Contributed greatly to Western civilization, science, and math.

[edhopper]

41. Galileo is a great choice

one of the most important scientist of all time. Can stand alongside Newton, Darwin, Einstein

Intellect over greed and distruction

[Warren DeMontague]

43. If we need to build statues of explorers, build them of Neil Armstrong and John Glenn.