General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDISGUSTING: How one Florida County Sheriff's office is preparing for Irma
We cannot and we will not have innocent children in a shelter with sexual offenders & predators. Period.
If you go to a shelter for #Irma and you have a warrant, we'll gladly escort you to the safe and secure shelter called the Polk County Jail
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,172 posts)Weekend Warrior
(1,301 posts)People in the area seem to find it amusing. We are talking Polk County.
HAB911
(8,879 posts)camera hog too
Weekend Warrior
(1,301 posts)No doubt about that!!!
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)Well played, Sheriff Nitwit. The saddest thing is that he probably thinks he's being oh-so-clever by veiling his racism like that.
Is that assuming most sexual predators are members of minority groups??
Wow.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Smh.
The only predators I've ever known of have been white.
Weekend Warrior
(1,301 posts)If you go to a shelter for #Irma and you have a warrant, we'll gladly escort you to the safe and secure shelter called the Polk County Jail
Link to tweet
That's what I take issue with.
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)Nobody likes the idea of sexual predators sharing shelter space with children. My reading is that the Polk County Sheriff is using that as his screen to threaten anyone who might have an outstanding warrant (valid or invalid) to avoid going to a shelter, because they will get locked up.
Who do you supposed is more likely and less likely to have a background check run on them when they show up at a shelter run by the Polk County Sheriff? Under the rubric of protecting children from sexual predators, what is the real-world expected outcome of the sheriff's men running checks? Please choose from the following:
A. Sex offenders who are on the list will be locked up, whether there's a warrant out on them or not, for the crime of seeking shelter from the hurricane.
B. Sex offenders who are on the list will avoid seeking shelter, fearful that even if they don't have a warrant out for them they'll be locked up, and will be exposed to the hurricane.
C. Individuals who have warrants out for their arrest, whether they know about the warrant or not, will be locked up when they seek shelter.
D. Individuals who are worried that they might have a warrant out on them will not seek shelter because they don't want to be tossed in jail, and will instead be exposed to the hurricane.
If you don't see a racist lurking behind the Sheriff's tweets, you haven't been paying very close attention for the last 20 years or so.
dembotoz
(16,799 posts)if you are found in violation they go after you big time...period
might cut the sheriff some slack
better to say disaster coming come here and comply with your restrictions than to say.
You went into an off limits shelter to survive...that does not matter.....off to prison for you
Iggo
(47,548 posts)You don't check ID's to get into a hurricane shelter.
dembotoz
(16,799 posts)to avoid big time trouble go to the jail and not the shelter
mia
(8,360 posts)I wouldn't be able to fall asleep. Besides, buildings that house jails are probably a whole lot sturdier than school cafeterias.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,172 posts)Not just those with a sex offense background.
And hence, an unpaid traffic ticket becomes a potential death sentence.
mia
(8,360 posts)I can imagine having an unpaid parking ticket myself.
treestar
(82,383 posts)the sentence, then they cannot be put in prison.
Also they are identified. So everyone in the shelter knows who they are.
dembotoz
(16,799 posts)Sorta like eternal probation with restrictions galore
treestar
(82,383 posts)for the info. I wonder that they should use an emergency like this and hopefully it would not slow down the processing of others while they figure out what to do with these offenders. I guess in the end they are not that numerous.
sarisataka
(18,577 posts)be housed with children at shelters?
IMO that is a recipe for disaster. I cannot fault the sheriff for wanting to protect kids.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Remember the crimes that took place inside the dome during Katrina?
You could not pay me to go into a shelter, but that's just because I cannot stand being crowded in with other people. But if I DID go, I'd not relish the idea of criminals in there with vulnerable elderly, kids, etc.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Protecting us from speeders and jaywalkers whose tickets have gone into warrant as well. And many, many more of those exist than predators, and will be prevented from safe shelter.
Javert gets a woody.
"I cannot fault the sheriff for wanting to protect kids..."
I think it''s adorable that you believe it as such.
sarisataka
(18,577 posts)And choose to avoid a shelter, risking my life, because I don't want to spend a couple days in jail that is on me.
A child should not have to fear being molested or raped in a shelter.
Initech
(100,061 posts)They endorsed a president who is a noted sex offender and doesn't want 800,000 of them here, so why would they care if they share a room with sexual predators?
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,915 posts)One can both support Trump and want to protect children from molesters.
Initech
(100,061 posts).99center
(1,237 posts)Trump bragged to Stern about walking in on girls that were as young as 15 and told Stern that "it's true" he's a sexual predator.
https://www.mediaite.com/online/watch-when-howard-stern-accused-trump-of-being-a-sexual-predator-in-2006-he-said-its-true/
janterry
(4,429 posts)I think the laws regarding sex offenders are horrific (for many). However, these folks have an active warrant. What are the police supposed to do?
In Florida, there is shelter for sex offenders, however..........it's not what most folks want: the prisons can shelter community based sex offenders during the hurricane. When the emergency is over, they can leave.
Frankly, we all know that some folks get caught up on the registry who aren't a threat to anyone. The folks who are scary are predators - and I wouldn't want to house children near them, either.
This issue comes up, btw, when folks are released from prison. In FL., many folks are released to shelters.........and many won't (can't, legally) take anyone with sex charges (period). It makes stepping down from prison successfully very difficult.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,172 posts)Which really doesn't justify putting life and limb at risk.
There's a time and place for everything. And this is definitely not the time.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Misunderstood, poor babies.
Somehow I never had a problem with paying tickets when I got them.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,172 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)And you spelled misdemeanor wrong.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,172 posts)Words have consequences, buddy.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)They sure do.
Learn how to spell them.
I don't want criminals in a shelter with vulnerable people, but you keep on with this.
Silliness.
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)It's clear from your posts you care more about typos than innocents being hurt.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Teeth hurt? Shoes too tight?
Awesome attacks for a different opinion than yours. This is a DISCUSSION forum. Look up the word. A few pages before "sime"
Might wanna take a little break from the puter.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,172 posts)Bradical79
(4,490 posts)Some opinions like yours are simply disgusting. You don't deserve any kind of respecful discussion. Again, you can't do anything but harp on spelling. Show more concern for human beings lives than typos, and maybe I will have a better day and calm down a bit.
You have a good day BRAD, and don't let different opinions from yours get your knickers so twisted.
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)There are plenty of "criminals" out there for petty misdemeanors or failure to appears who just can't afford it. Once you're trapped in the system, for some, it's extremely difficult to get out. It's a vicious cycle.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)You let your kids and parents hang out with criminals if you want.
I'll keep on being law-abiding. And so are the people I know,
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)However, I don't harbor any illusions that the poor are targeted with all of these justice system rip-offs. Once they get caught up in the cycle, it's extremely difficult to get out of it.
If you'd like to get over yourself for just a few minutes, I can provide links to essays on progressive websites that describe the vicious cycle they are trapped up in. Or you could just dismiss it out of hand and keep feeling superior because since they don't pay their tickets on time like you do, you pristine law-abiding citizen, they deserve death!
I mean really - you could just think about it for a few more seconds instead of knee-jerkingly think everyone is like you or has the same amount of money or social status/economic status.
Jeez - can't believe I have to explicitly advocate for the poor on a progressive website.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,172 posts)And then bitch about other DU posters.
I don't get it, either.
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)That's some Trump level dishonesty you're trying to pull here.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Are you comparing me to Trump?
Is that what you do when you disagree with another DUer?
Very nice.
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)You say one thing, then claim you didn't. It's what Trump does, and it's what you do. Congrats on being unable to decipher a simple typo though.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Seriously.
I don't want criminals in a shelter with vulnerable people.
Your ad hominem attacks are very amusing.
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)Nice that you are having a laugh at human suffering though.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Obviously something going on with you. I don't put people on ignore, but I will not engage with you further.
I find you to be extremely unable to discuss things without insults and so on. I've been here much longer than you; I've had disagreements with many long time DUers who do not stoop to this kind of nonsense. You have a good evening BRAD.
Still, you have given me a good chuckle, and I thank you for that.
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)People will die and be hurt, but your amusement and spelling ability is what's important. Might as well ignore me. I'm going to hate you regardless.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,172 posts)...is to zing him on how he spelt "misdemeanor" and then claim victory.
Duh.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)for a sex offender, I have zero problem with them making sure he/she doesn't get around my children. Or me.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,172 posts)....anyone with a warrant could be arrested if they go to a shelter. Not just those with sex offenses in their background.
Honestly, I can't believe some people on DU are trying to justify this piece of shit's behavior.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)making sure criminals with warrants out for their arrests don't get around everyone else? Fuck this sheriff - he's an asshole - that doesn't mean I have such an open mind my brains have fallen out.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,172 posts)If someone has a warrant, goes to a shelter, starts acting out and a police officer on duty detains him and determines he has a warrant, yeah, bring him in.
But telling anyone who might possibly have a warrant for so little as a misdemeanor offense to stay away from a shelter or risk arrest--or if someone is undocumented and is concerned that they'll be checking papers at the door--is horrific and I won't excuse that sort of behavior from a public official.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)the warning they'll be checked is a fair warning. More than they deserve.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,172 posts)But the whole "papers please" at the door is downright fascism.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Stop with the drama queen bullshit. It's not fascism and frankly I'm sick and tired of people throwing words around to such an extent, they lose all meaning. Warrants don't go out for nothing - they're issued when you either don't show up when you're supposed to or are suspected of committing a crime and they have enough proof to arrest you. Why have a police presence and NOT check if there are already criminals in the house?
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,172 posts)This isn't a traffic stop where a police officer runs a license. This is an emergency shelter during a natural disaster. It's wholly inappropriate.
But if you want to defend this Arpaio-esqe piece of shit and his tactics, that's your prerogative.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)That's the SECOND time I've posted that since your outrageous outrage obviously didn't hear me the first time. He wants to keep sex offenders away from children and I have personal reasons for being VERY in favor of that. This conversation is over.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,172 posts)He wants to arrest anyone with a warrant who comes into a hurricane shelter.
That's what he said. And that's what people will hear.
riversedge
(70,186 posts)violent crimes warrants) will be apprehended.
Thank you.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)You have a mass gathering of vulnerable people. Predators will take advantage of that.
It happened after Katrina, although reports initially greatly exaggerated the scope of it in some cases there were enough confirmed cases, and many more eyewitness accounts coming from survivors that in the chaos never got officially reported.
The jail is still a bible safe shelter. Taking offenders there for the duration is providing them a safe space without endangering others.
leftstreet
(36,103 posts)If he's this worried about it
Not Ruth
(3,613 posts)A warrant is not a conviction
Doreen
(11,686 posts)that are unpaid and there is a warrant for her and now he is going to put her in a jail with sex offenders? Wow, that's the solution.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)You get one and you are supposed to learn.
Not to mention, why not pay for them? Irresponsibility, it's a real thing.
Hope you're not talking about someone related to you.
FLPanhandle
(7,107 posts)Sounds like he is using sex offenders as an example of a broader "any kind of warrant" approach though.
Not cool.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,172 posts)And that sends a certain message of intimidation to anyone trying to get in to a place that was designed as a shelter from a storm.
Police presence in shelters is certainly wise. But paper checking at the gates is creeping fascism.
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)Response to kpete (Original post)
Post removed
sarisataka
(18,577 posts)Who recalls the the sex assaults post Katrina in shelters.
What should be done to protect children and other vulnerable people in shelters from predators? The children won't have to go fuck themselves, Chester will do it.
TeamPooka
(24,220 posts)is it also okay to check and MAKE SURE EVERYONE IS A CITIZEN AS THEY SHOW UP TOO and then arresting the undocumented?
Please explain the difference to me.
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)Better to hurt innocents if it means getting someone with outstanding parking tickets off the streets.
sarisataka
(18,577 posts)People with warrants are potentially dangerous to those around them
Undocumented persons are not dangerous
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,172 posts)I'm not saying that not paying a traffic ticket is the right thing to do, but I don't think that makes them more inherently dangerous than any other random person. And yet that will earn someone a warrant.
That makes no sense.
sarisataka
(18,577 posts)At the most minimal warrants you are correct. I don't think they are the ones who will have to worry unless the county lockup can hold a few thousand people with trivial warrants.
Those with felony warrants are often a different story and pose a risk to the vulnerable.
What makes no sense to me is the callous disregard for safety that ignoring the risk of violent predators poses. A shelter should be a place of safety, not trading one risk for another.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)A local sheriff has a legal obligation to arrest anyone with a warrant. It's an order from the court that has to be complied with.
When I was a deputy there was a lot of discretion I had on matters if I arrested, have a warning, or ignored. But if a person has a warrant that was a hard and fast thing that I had to take them into custody. No ifs, ands, buts or excuses. A warrant is an order from the court that an officer is legally obligated to act on, and failure to is a criminal act by the officer.
And most of the arrests I made for warrants were simple Failure to Appear warrants where people had tickets or court dates for very minor things who did the absolute stupidest thing possible and just blew off their court date. I never for the life of me could comprehend why so many people just blew off cour dates knowing 100% that doing so made things 100000 times worse. I've seen people end up in jail over a ticket for an expired tag because they didn't pay the ticket, didn't show up in court to contest it or ask for a payment plan if they couldn't pay, the ignored the certified letter telling them if they didn't make contact with the clerk of court in 10 days they would have a warrant issued. Hell, the clerk would make payment arrangements and take $10 a week as long as you did something they wouldn't issue a warrant. But they just ignored it and ended up arrested.
Citizenship ship status a local agency has no legal obligtion and in most cases no legal power to enforce at all.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,172 posts)I'm sure a police officer probably walks by multiple people every day who might have an outstanding warrant for whatever, but merely being in close proximity to that person doesn't give them the right to interrogate them to see if they have any outstanding warrants.
Police officers at hurricane shelters should be there to ensure the general safety of the people in the shelter, but that doesn't give them the right to inquire as to warrants without having some legal reason to stop them.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)While running every person who walks in would be excessive (but seemingly legal), I doubt they would do that anyway because it would take forever and slow things down.
However, if an officer sees a person there they know to have active warrants they have that legal mandate to take them into custody.
While the routine FTA's for small stuff are things that they likely won't know the people by sight, your more violent or high level offenders are more than likely known to them by sight, and they have a good idea who is likely to have a warrant.
If they are in a shelter and someone comes in who they know has an active warrant because his picture has been out on the daily BOLO list they still have the same obligation as they would if they saw that person out on he street.
I have to point out that the idea of having warrants because you ignored the law and you ignored the system and said "fuck you" to the authority of lawful government and then you run to take refuge in a government run shelter your every bit as hypocritical as a person who refuses to pay taxes and runs to a government run shelter. Part of the social contract is as citizens obeying the law and complying with our system of governance- and if you have a warrant and you are knowingly elduding and not getting that taken care of you are saying you don't give a damm about government and its rules. To then demand refuge from that same body and society at large you thumbed your nose at is deeply hypocritical.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,172 posts)I understand with high profile suspects but I doubt an officer will memorize the faces of everyone who missed payment on a traffic ticket.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)They probably won't spot those routine FTA's with a warrant for something minor- and like I said while people are acting like they will be running everybody at the door that would be pretty much impossible.
The old saying, and it's true, is that 5% of your population are 95% of your problems. And once an officer has worked in an area a while they know those people.
Hell, I've been off the job more than a decade and I can still rattle off dozens of names and would recognize a higher percentage than that on sight. When you have worked an area or a neighborhood for a while you know who the predators are, who the troublemakers are, who has warrants or is likely to. You know who is a problem only when they are drunk, who only did stupid things when they are around other people, etc.
TeamPooka
(24,220 posts)NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)Sailor65x1
(554 posts)At our Red Cross shelters. We never allow them in with kids. Local authority provides us with a list of photos and information to watch for.
On edit: we don't look at things like warrants, only the local registered list.
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)It's a far better solution than warrant checks. Though what happens if there's no id? What's the process for checks?
Sailor65x1
(554 posts)In the event we can't get an ID, one of us (There are always at least 2 of us) will scan the pictures that the local police provided and watch for a similarity.
In my years doing this I've only had two occasions where I had to refuse entry. In only one of those cases did I have to call the police over to explain. There was no incident and the man went somewhere else.
Mariana
(14,854 posts)of that particular kind of offense from entering your shelters.
They don't give you a list of people with outstanding warrants for anything and everything. So it isn't the same policy at all, it is very different.
nini
(16,672 posts)Thanks for clarifying that.
liberalmuse
(18,672 posts)Protecting people from the extreme elements. The people they are itching to "bust" or exclude are such an incredible minority that they are making themselves look like overzealous asshats. This isn't necessary at all. Stop this nonsense and just get a penis pump instead. Maybe if they did their jobs outside of a natural disaster they wouldn't have to posture about doing t now. The truth is, they want to exclude people with minor warrants and are crying "pedophile" in order to justify this to the public.
demmiblue
(36,838 posts)obnoxiousdrunk
(2,909 posts)and no spelling errors in that statement.
nini
(16,672 posts)His comment about the warrant was a reply to the original tweet about sexual offenders. I get that - if indeed that person is already on a list etc.
I do NOT think just any old warrant like not paying a traffic violation is ok though.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,172 posts)Even if that was his intention to refer to just sex offenders, he insinuated that he'd arrest anyone with an outstanding warrant who turns up at a shelter.
And even if it were limited to only sex offenders, exactly how would they determine who is and isn't a sex offender without some sort of fascist style paper check at the door, which would only further intimidate the public.
There's no excusing this shithead.
nini
(16,672 posts)so we have to disagree.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,172 posts)nini
(16,672 posts)Maybe if I didn't know someone who's daughter raped and murdered by someone I'd be less forgiving.
fuck it. It's not too much to ask if kids get a bit of protection in already chaotic situation.
I have zero fucks to give over those people. ZERO.
bye
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,172 posts)Just to be clear, you are saying that in order to get into a hurricane shelter, you have to have an ID on you?
Am I correct as to what your position is?
nini
(16,672 posts)That is an agreeable way to try and weed those folks out.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,172 posts)This sheriff was saying anyone with a warrant could be subject to arrest at a shelter.
And furthermore, the type of situation that you were referring to in Post 91 would probably find itself under legal scrutiny, but that's beside the point.
NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)Hell, in a bunch of states urination in public gets you on that list. In Florida, it's not uncommon to find statutory rape listed, which has no danger. There were stories of married family men having to move their families because of the list.
nini
(16,672 posts)Tier II and above.
NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)I oppose the lists mainly because if you pose that much danger to society, you belong in jail in the first place. The lists are just an excuse for extra-judicial punishment.
nini
(16,672 posts)I'm not going to argue about those pieces of shit all day.
NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)Last edited Wed Sep 6, 2017, 06:51 PM - Edit history (1)
Happily married couples for decades were forced to move because of a statutory rape conviction two decades before, and the husband had been convicted of raping his current wife (he was convicted of statutory rape because he turned 18, but her birthday was a month later). Nothing POS about that guy at all - just her parents.
sarisataka
(18,577 posts)Or did you just say there's nothing wrong with a guy convicted of raping his wife?
NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)A teenager got convicted because he (the male) went past his 18th birthday, and the mother of the girl used that to go after him. The relationship was legal just days prior, but because her birthday was not for another month the ages were spread apart such that is was considered statutory rape. All sex was consensual. The couple later married and now have children and are still happily married.
It made news when the 1000 foot restrictions were imposed on him decades after the conviction and it caused disruption to their lives.
sarisataka
(18,577 posts)I had a neighbor who went through a similar situation. He was 15 and the girl was 14 but after celebrating his 16th birthday her parents pressed charges. This was before any Romeo and Juliet laws were in place. They waited until he was sixteen because they knew at ages 15 and 14 he would get probation. With the ages 16 and 14 they could have him serve time in juvie. It took him a long time even with the girl's backing to finally get the conviction expunged from his record many years later.
I am all for the sex offender Registries it is with the caveat that some common sense should be applied.
NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)In the case of a Florida couple, it made national news years ago.
I didn't realize, but Florida may have fixed it since: http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/criminal/romeo-and-juliet-law-offers-a-way-off-floridas-sex-offender-list/1191974
treestar
(82,383 posts)dealing with anything else during a hurricane.
A lot of people will be there to look after children.
Mariana
(14,854 posts)to go out and arrest people who are wanted on sex crime warrants? He sits on his ass waiting around for a natural disaster to happen and hopes they'll show up at shelters and he can pick them up that way? Actually, he doesn't even want to do that. He wants them to stay away from the shelters so he doesn't have to deal with them - that's why he warned them not to come!