I hope that "Medicare for all" will not become a "litmus test" for Democrats in coming elections

[question everything]

Yes, more and more people support it, but, once the tax point is added, support drops, as reported yesterday on MSNBC. (I do not have a link but we do know our fellow Americans who want something for nothing..)

Either way, most Americans get their health insurance through their employers and they like it. These plans are more generous than Medicare. Most Americans do not realize how expensive their employer provided plans until after they leave and continue with them through COBRA.

These benefits are exempt from income and payroll taxes and cost the Treasury $240 billion a year.

The first "Ryancare" aimed to eliminate this exclusion, but Mark Meadows objected that it would "raise taxes." At the same time he, and his caucus objected to offering credits because it would be "entitlements." OK, no one ever claimed that Republicans are not hypocrite.

The only way that most Americans would support a single payer plan would be if and when employers are out of the equation of providing health insurance. When people will have to find their own, then they will want a single payer and will understand that they have to pay for it.

William Galston, who writes the liberal column for the WSJ had these comments yesterday:

In 2011 newly elected Vermont Gov. Peter Shumlin announced his intention to shift his state to a single-payer health-care system. He pursued that goal until late 2014, when a study by his staff and consultants projected that it would require imposing a payroll tax of 11.5% and raising the personal income tax by as much as 9.5 percentage points. “The risk of economic shock is too high,” Mr. Shumlin concluded as he withdrew his proposal.

(snip)

If you want to win the 2020 Democratic presidential nomination, it might seem, the best strategy is to emerge as the champion of its newly dominant progressive faction, and coming out for single-payer might seem the best way to do it.

Whether this is the best formula for winning a general election contest is another matter. Sens. Warren, Harris, Booker and Gillibrand are coastal Democrats from bright-blue states. Ohio Sen. Sherrod Brown, a veteran populist from a swing state that Donald Trump carried by a stunning eight points in 2016, has conspicuously declined to endorse the Sanders bill, preferring to build bipartisan support for a more modest proposal to allow Americans to buy into Medicare when they reach 55. Democrats should ask themselves which of their elected officials better understands how to win back the Midwestern states that made Mr. Trump president.

In May 2016, the Urban Institute—not previously known as a hotbed of conservatism—released its analysis of the Medicare for All proposal Sen. Sanders offered during his presidential campaign. The study found that if the plan were enacted into law, the federal government would absorb the bulk of the current spending by states, localities, employers and households. Federal spending would rise by $2.5 trillion in the plan’s first year, and by $32 trillion over the first decade.

A parallel study conducted by the bipartisan Tax Policy Center found that Mr. Sanders’s revenue proposals would raise only $15.3 trillion over the first decade, leaving a gap of $16.6 trillion between expenditures and revenues. “The proposed taxes,” the Urban Institute observed, are “much too low to fully finance the plan,” and “additional sources of revenue would have to be identified.”

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-single-payer-siren-song-1505256839

(subscribers only, but sometimes googling the title: The Single-Payer Siren Song - can open it)

[Eliot Rosewater]

1. What frustrates me SO much about this is

As a major supporter of single payer, I KNOW there is a way to get there and do it, but we wont do it this way, we have to have everybody on board.

If we cant get all Democrats on board, how in the hell are we gonna get cons.

[question everything]

2. The way other countreis do it - impose a special tax

People have to, first, see how much their current plan - paid by themselves and their employers - cost.

And then look at how much tax they would have to pay. And then decide.

Still, if employers get out of the business of offering health insurance this will be an incentive.

[Demsrule86]

16. We can't get Dems like me who favor saving the ACA on board because we want to

have some health care now and not kill thousands of people Save the ACA...then introduce a public option...when we have majorities. There is no reason to to support or not support this as we have no way to pass it until 20 at the earliest...and I think we need a super majority to do it anyway.

[HarmonyRockets]

3. Read a little more about the bill

"These plans are more generous than Medicare."

What's being offered in "Medicare For All" is not the same as Medicare as it is now.

This legislation will provide comprehensive health care coverage that includes:

1. Hospital services, including inpatient and outpatient hospital care, 24-hour-a-day
emergency services and inpatient prescription drugs.
2. Ambulatory patient services.
3. Primary and preventive services, including chronic disease management.
4. Prescription drugs, medical devices, and biological products.
5. Mental health and substance abuse treatment services.
6. Laboratory and diagnostic services.
7. Comprehensive reproductive, maternity, and newborn care, including abortion.
8. Pediatrics.
9. Dental health, audiology, and vision services.

Putting People over Profits

Under this legislation, Americans will no longer have to pay premiums, co-payments, or deductibles to private health insurance companies that put profits over the needs of the American people. Instead of writing a big check to private health insurance companies, most Americans and businesses would be paying a much smaller percentage of their income to fund Medicare-for-all.

Also, a lot of the stuff you posted is basically straight from the GOP twitter page. They are very literally right wing talking points. I won't report right now, but it is against board rules.

[question everything]

5. And how is he going to pay for this?

It is unfortunate that there are people here who think that if someone does not follow the line, that someone is a "follows right wing talking points."

Some of, most of us, I hope, prefer to form our own opinion.

Oh, and just a reminder: Sanders is not a Democrat, never been a Democrat and actively campaigned against Democratic candidates. I will never accept anything that he says or proposes as worthy of accepting.

[Demsrule86]

14. I have to agree. I am furious that a single payer bill that has no chances was offered rather than

a bill that would strengthen the ACA...I feel we played into GOP hands.

[BzaDem]

8. So it sounds like it is not "Medicare for all", but "something else for all?"

In particular, "something else for all that would be incredibly difficult to fund, so we will just ignore that problem and not include a financing mechanism in the bill?"

The difficulty of single payer does not come from how hard it is to list every conceivable benefit one could hope for on paper. The difficulty comes from having a politically viable funding mechanism that actually pays for said benefits. (If our country ever got single payer, it would not have even close to all the benefits you have listed, at no cost to the patient.) Progress towards single payer is really progress towards such a politically viable funding mechanism, and Bernie's so-called "plan" brings us 0% closer to that goal.

[question everything]

10. I am concerned that if we take control of Congress (at least)

we will be like the Republicans with their repeal and replace. All talk and no specific action.

[Demsrule86]

12. It is unlikely if we lose the ACA we will have the votes to pass anything.

[Demsrule86]

15. This plan will never pass...there are not enough votes for it. Save the ACA then offer

a public option or we lose healthcare for a generation.

[Wounded Bear]

4. Personally, I don't do litmus tests...

I'm not a one issue voter.

Well, except for the whole "I won't vote Republican" thing.

[question everything]

6. Good for you. None of us should be a single issue voters

I think that I did vote for a Republican couple of times. It was for city council or county supervisor when local issues were quite important.. and these were the only candidates

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. PLUS ONE.

After giving single payer a lot of thought I have come to the conclusion that it at least further opens the Overton Window in a positive direction.

I will wait to see how the CBO and independent think tanks score it before I support it. If the numbers are something I believe we can sell to the American people and win the votes necessary to pass it I will support it. If it doesn't I won't.

[Demsrule86]

13. I vote for the Democrat always. I am also a yellow dog and a broken glass Democrat...I would vote

for a yellow dog before a Gop and crawl through broken glass to do so.

[disillusioned73]

9. The beauty of democracy..

is that everyone decides what their own personal "litmus test" is.. as a voter that is your right, and no one can change that.

[Demsrule86]

11. The ACA may very well be repealed in the the next two weeks...so why not another losing strategy...

let's 'purify' our party into infinity....(sarcasm).