Sanders: I don't consider myself a Democrat

[factfinder_77]

http://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/sanders-i-don-t-consider-myself-a-democrat-924041283893

watch from 1.15

[guillaumeb]

1. Does this come as a surprise?

There is an (I) after his name after all.

[Gothmog]

71. I am not surprised

[factfinder_77]

2. Yes; becaus his name if floating around as a 2020 democratic contender

[bluepen]

3. Ill take your word for it. Done listening to him.

Especially now that it looks like the ACA will survive, despite his effort to make the healthcare debate seem like it’s either his bill or Trumpcare. Goodbye to all that.

[R B Garr]

4. Yes, huge ups to Senator John McCain (R) for voicing

his objection so strongly to Graham's bill.

[factfinder_77]

9. Its a hard job for Pelosi and Schumer to work with Sanders

They cant sell out our core party values, but at the same time we need the young voters that voted for Sanders in the primaries.

[Sunlei]

15. I bet they cry themselves to sleep every night :P

[CherokeeFiddle]

23. Can you tell us what "core party values" Democrats have that Bernie does not please?

[Ninsianna]

49. For one they're pro gun control.

[CherokeeFiddle]

59. Bernie has a D- rating from the NRA

Next talking point?
There are Democrats who are ranked a LOT higher than Bernie but because it's Bernie, you're upset.

NRA Endorses 14 House Democrats Over Republicans

Meet The NRA-Backed Senate Democrats Who Oppose Obama’s Gun Violence Prevention Plan

Let's look at some of these folks in the above link.....(note; this is from 2013)

1. Max Baucus, Montana (NRA Rating: A+).
2. Heidi Heitkamp, North Dakota (NRA Rating: A).
2. Heidi Heitkamp, North Dakota (NRA Rating: A).
4. Joe Donnelly, Indiana (NRA Rating: A).
5. Mark Begich, Alaska (NRA Rating: A).
6. Joe Manchin, West Virginia (NRA Rating: A).
7. Jon Tester, Montana (NRA Rating: A-).
8. Harry Reid, Nevada (NRA Rating: B).

[DFW]

82. Out of that list

Max Baucus, Mark Begich and Harry Reid are no longer in the Senate, and Heidi Heitkamp's clone never was.

[Ninsianna]

90. It seems that the Anti-Democratic talking point list has not been

updated in quite some time.

What's weird is that I didn't mention the NRA or its dubious ratings, but actual votes on bills that dealt with gun rights and gun liabilities. Well, actually I just stated something rather general, but the response assumed a lot of things, including my supposed upset about his favorite candidate.

I'm trying to think of an example of where that sort of odd assumption has ever been made, but not even my teen heartthrob obsessed cousins would make such assumptions if I dared to criticize a song or movie of their crush.

This rabid defense is not normal, it's a politician, there is no race currently happening, and it's an easily verifiable and legitimate criticism. This a very odd response.

[CherokeeFiddle]

91. I said it was from 2013.

[Ninsianna]

88. It seems like you're just upset that any sort of criticism was leveled against your

favoritest Senator.

For the record, I didn't mention the NRA, which LOVED Bernie. So your pre-fabricated talking point to counter my point fails.

Did I mention a Obama's Gun Violence Prevention Plan? Nope.

Wow, the NRA endorsed random people in 2010 and that somehow makes Bernie's gun votes magically disappear? No.


Here's what the NRA had to say a little more recently: http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/07/politics/nra-bernie-sanders-spot-on-tweet/index.html

More on the subject, not from the NRA.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/01/bernie-sanders-vote-gun-immunity-black-market/


He voted 5 times against the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act. Against background checks.
The Charleston Loophole and quite a few other gun friendly measures.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/01/26/everything-you-wanted-to-know-about-bernie-sanderss-record-on-guns/?utm_term=.5892570670a3

So, my point stands. The party is way better on gun control than Bernie Sanders is. The NRA thinks he's on point since you value their opinion so much.

His voting record, to which I referred, supports my point. It's sad that blind jingoistic love of a candidate is reliant on just assuming that the talking points of the campaign are correct and need to based on assumptions made that anyone who dares even the mildest, voting record referencing, fact base criticism of a politician MUST be made due to dislike of him. That's some Trump like thinking right there, immature, incorrect and rather cultish.

The facts are what they are, and they don't back up the talking points dredged up and projected to defend a legitimate criticism. Perhaps less upset that anyone is daring to criticize one's political crush and more examination of what's actually being said, and the facts are in order.

[CherokeeFiddle]

92. No quite the opposite

You didn't mention the NRA but you mentioned guns. You can't especially have the convo about guns without bringing up the NRA.

Again, Bernie has a D- rating from the NRA and there are current serving Dems who rank higher than he does. Where is your outrage over that? Is it just "Bernie!" which I suspect? It seems so.

And you know exactly why Bernie voted the way he did yet you are only seeing the surface of the iceberg and doing so because it firs your narrative.

Bernie was for most of the provisions of the Brady Bill, but he felt that it held a potential for abuse that would punish the wrong people. Bernie is pro instant background checks on all gun sales (closing the gun show loophole) and for a ban on assault weapons.

"For example, do I think that a gun shop in the state of Vermont that sells legally a gun to somebody, and that somebody goes out and does something crazy, that that gun shop owner should be held responsible? I don't."
-from: The CNN Democratic debate transcript, annotated

He was for a bill that distinguished between manufacturers and sellers who KNOWINGLY or NEGLIGENTLY sold weapons to criminals, but not those who accidentally sold weapons that were used in crimes.

Bernie voted o ban assault firearms with H.R.4296 - Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act
Bernie voted to close the gun show loophole with H.Amdt.216 to H.R.2122
Bernie voted to regulate high capacity munitions with S.Amdt.714 to S.649
Bernie voted to expand background checks with S.Amdt.715 to S.649

These are just a few things.

“Folks who do not like guns [are] fine. But we have millions of people who are gun owners in this country — 99.9 percent of those people obey the law. I want to see real, serious debate and action on guns, but it is not going to take place if we simply have extreme positions on both sides. I think I can bring us to the middle.”--Bernie Sanders

Calling people who disagree with you this speaks volumes-- "That's some Trump like thinking right there, immature, incorrect and rather cultish." Are you wanting 8 years old Trump because that is how you get 8 years of Trump.

[Ninsianna]

94. And I supported my point, while yours sorta failed, because the NRA

really liked your guy and said so.

Again, what they said in 2016 over what they said in 2012? And all the years before when they sure liked the guy and his votes to not regulate guns.

Your suspicions seem to be based on your own wishful thinking, I suspect that this is because you can't defend the legitimate criticism and can't tolerate any facts that interfere with the hero worship.

Perhaps after you've been here longer than a week, you'll learn to respond to what's been written instead of what you've decided to assume, about people whose posts you don't seem to read well, but you've decided you know well enough to read what's in their hearts and minds.

What exactly are you suggesting "I know" about how dear, dear Bernie (peas be upon him) voted and why? I can think of no legitimate reason for his votes, but since you know so much about what I know and why Bernie voted against sensible gun regulation that even Republicans voted for (to the delight of the NRA who gave him a better grade for his sympathetic votes), why don't you lay out the Tarot cards, fire up the mind reading and tell us all what you claim you have read in our minds?

So he was for "instant background checks" in 2005 and THAT's why he voted against Brady 5 times?

Were there instant background checks even feasible in 2005?

A hint, the article where you cherry picked quotes from? It gives you the answer, oddly you chose to pretend it didn't exist, almost like it wasn't in the talking points from last year which are being used with a vengeance, but which the fact checks destroyed back then.

I posted a fact check of that debate, I see why it might be inconvenient to this bald refighting of lost primary to reference the fact checks on the topic I was referencing.

It's an extreme position to request background checks that are possible at the time? To hold gun manufacturers liable? No, that's not extreme at all, it is why the Democratic party has the superior position on Gun Control and your guy does not.

Calling any disagreement out in the personal terms as you've been doing in your 16 OPs, and 200+ posts in less than a week, on every interaction, speaks greater volumes.

And pointing out the similarity in behavior does indeed speak volumes, all the assumptions, poor reading, cherry picked quotes, ignoring facts and fact checks and accusing everyone who disagrees with you of "hating Bernie" and "being upset about Bernie" is literally how Trumper think and act. Sorry if my ACCURATE assessment of behavior that is replicated in nearly every post hit a little too close to home.

We get 8 years of Trump when we fail to call out the ignorance, the abuse, the harassment and the utter failure of fact base dialogue to call out the forces whose sole aim seem to be foment division and anger within the only party opposing him.

We get 8 years of Trump when we denigrate, demean and lie about Democrats and Democratic Party positions. I'm not the one doing the damage that gave us Trump, nor am I the one seeking to continue the fractures and the abuse to ensure more Trump. Projecting ones own behavior and motives fails as much as ignoring facts, and cherrypicking to suit an argument that was defeated some time ago, through various fact checks.

[CherokeeFiddle]

105. Excuse me?

Not sure what is up with your personal attacks here in some of the things you've written but it's rather unwarranted.

My "suspicion"? What suspicion might that be since you seem to know me so well? As far as hero worship goes, Bernie isn't perfect by any means and nobody is however your blind hatred for him does show quite well on nearly every thread about him. We get it, you're upset because he's not a Democrat.

I respond to posts just fine thank you. I respond to what people say, kind of hard to see what is in people's minds & hearts based on pixels on a message board on the internet, don't ya think? If someone says something and took the time to type it out, then that is what they meant.

What exactly are you suggesting "I know" about how dear, dear Bernie (peas be upon him) voted and why? I can think of no legitimate reason for his votes, but since you know so much about what I know and why Bernie voted against sensible gun regulation that even Republicans voted for (to the delight of the NRA who gave him a better grade for his sympathetic votes), why don't you lay out the Tarot cards, fire up the mind reading and tell us all what you claim you have read in our minds?

Again, your blind hatred is showing. "Peas upon him"? Really? I rest my case.
As far as Bernie and why he voted the way he did, you know the answer I suspect and a simple search on Google would reveal that; Sportsmen. VT is a very big sportsman state.


I explained fully WHY Bernie voted against Bernie up above.

Yes, instant background checks were feasible and have been for a long time

Are you familiar with what NCIC is? It is the crime information center clearing house. Any time you say get pulled over by the cops, your license and name is run. This is the system which the police run your information through. It is literally instantaneous. Ironically it is already used for guns in a round about way however indirectly; if someone is in possession of a firearm, that firearm's serial numbers are run through NCIC along with the persons name & criminal history to see if they are eligible to own a firearm.

Yes, instant background checks are very possible and tapping into the NCIC is one way to make it happen.

Holding gun makers responsible isn't responsible, it's irresponsible and downright silly. We don't hold Budweiser and other beer companies responsible for drunk driving deaths, do we? Should we start? I don't think so. Do we hold car makers for drunk driving deaths too? Nope. Maybe we should start that too! You can't hold the maker of something legal nor responsible for something that isn't working incorrectly. Can a gun maker be held responsible if say they produce a weapon that was faulty and jammed, injuring people all the time? Yes. However that is a different scenario entirely. Remember the Firestone & Ford tire debacle late 90s &early in the 2000s? It lead to Congress passing the TREAD Act, due to tires being faulty. You can't do as you're suggesting, not only would it not fly, it is 100% unconstitutional. That is the reality of the situation. Do gun makers enjoy special protections under the law? Yes. And Hillary stated several times and was correct in her run for the Presidency. Are those laws correct or wrong? That is up to you and your POV. and opinion.

Calling any disagreement out in the personal terms as you've been doing in your 16 OPs, and 200+ posts in less than a week, on every interaction, speaks greater volumes.

Pot meet kettle; here you are doing just that with personal attacks. Sorry you have such a problem with me.

And pointing out the similarity in behavior does indeed speak volumes, all the assumptions, poor reading, cherry picked quotes, ignoring facts and fact checks and accusing everyone who disagrees with you of "hating Bernie" and "being upset about Bernie" is literally how Trumper think and act. Sorry if my ACCURATE assessment of behavior that is replicated in nearly every post hit a little too close to home.

I'm sorry that you dislike that I speak the truth. It is what it is and it is rather obvious as I already quoted here. If anything Trumpers are enjoying this because it drives division in our party, the very thing they need to win in 2018 and 2020. Doubt me? Feel free to prove me wrong.

I find it ironic that you bring up "denigrate, demean and lie about Democrats and Democratic Party positions" here, in a thread about guns, when several people who are Democrats have a lot higher NRA ratings than Bernie, including people like Joe Manchin who has a "A" rating. That alone makes all of this silly. But because it's "BERNIE!!"...well...it says it all.

[Ninsianna]

89. Oh and since you so thoughtfully provided a link but apparently did not read it

I'll paste the little excerpt you neglected to notice in your attack on Democrats:

Although the NRA's agenda usually aligns with that of the GOP, the powerful group also adheres to what it calls "an incumbent-friendly" policy: If an incumbent and a challenger candidate have equally strong records protecting gun rights, the incumbent gets the endorsement, regardless of party.

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2010/10/06/130393162/nra-endorses-14-house-democrats


Apparently the talking points used by those who prefer to attack the Democratic party are stale, non factual and don't in anyway answer the fact that a non Democrat isn't so great on gun issues per his voting record.

I thought only right wingers chose to willfully misunderstand points and provided links that invalidated and defeated their own talking points. Interesting tactics.

[CherokeeFiddle]

93. How is that an attack on Democrats? lol?

[Ninsianna]

95. Well there were the lies, the implications and the assumptions.

It's funny that actual attacks launched by you don't exist, but imaginary ones you've created in your own head when voting records are referenced are all because people hate your guy!

It's those precious double standards again.

[JustAnotherGen]

97. I thought so too

[lunamagica]

102. A D- is a passing grade. Nothing but an F is acceptable

[CherokeeFiddle]

104. I disagree

As a gun owner myself, Anything higher than a D is questionable.

[bluepen]

28. The young voters will move on. The Bernie campaign was a fad

and, oddly enough, kind of a cult of personality.

Plus, attention span and all that.

Not worried in the least about young voters coming back to reality. I doubt Schumer and Pelosi are either.

[ChubbyStar]

43. Do you have children of voting age?

Do you have young adults in your house? Because I do, and Bernie is not a FAD.

[bluepen]

46. Do they have to live in my house?

I have nieces and nephews and know young adults of friends. Most of them have come to their senses. Some won’t.

Regardless, the fad is dying out. Bernie is done. It’s over. Move on.

[ChubbyStar]

53. WRONG

It is not a fad, so sorry for you.

[CherokeeFiddle]

61. What an incredible statement

I am simply shocked.... "Bernie is a fad" is why people are so disenfranchised these days

[bluepen]

72. Alrighty then.

Any thoughts on the Easter bunny or Santa Claus?

[lapfog_1]

47. yes, I think he is.

Back when I was college age there was this guy John Anderson... ran as an independent for President.

I loved him... as did lots of other college age "kids".

He didn't win in 1980... not a single state. He hurt Carter but not enough to swing the election.

And then he completely disappeared.

I also grew up and promised to never vote 3rd party again... at least until there is a viable 3rd party to vote for.

[CherokeeFiddle]

60. This is completely false

and they aren't moving on. It's been a couple years now and things are stronger now than they ever have been before. To call it a fad is completely false.

Attention span? If that isn't offensive, I don't know what is. Wow. Yes because people under 40 all have short attention spans. What a sad statement to make about people and comments like that are WHY Trump very well could win in 2020. Check your privilege mate.

Pelosi and Schumer are very concerned about young voters (millennials) who are now the largest voting block in America. They passed boomers.

[bluepen]

74. You are not making sense.

“Things are stronger...” Things? Vague. Meaningless.

I don’t care if someone is “offended” by my views on attention span. Your reaction to my opinion isn’t my problem. Simply doesn’t matter.

How did comments on attention span get Trump elected? Specific examples?

Check my privilege? You’re just using a worn-out and hollow buzzword here. Nothing more. Makes zero sense.

Pelosi and Schumer HAVE TO play the part of concerned leaders. But they know (as we all do) that the vast majority of Bernie voters will vote smarter in the future.

[haveahart]

68. If young voters don't understand by now how they were beguiled and scammed by targeted Russian

ads and some of Sanders unsubstantiated claims then there is little hope of them becoming informed voters. I will only speak for what I know happened within my own family with the millennials. All but two out of nine admit their thinking about HRC was shaped by Bernie and what they heard over the airwaves and social media sites they visited. One of the 7 belonged to the Young Republicans and two were avid BLM supporters. All of the nine had graduated from college during the Obama administration and found jobs by their 4th or 5th year out. Most had worked in part-time positions until they found good paying (not exactly what they wanted but decent pay). Health insurance taken care of by mom and dad for most and their employer.

Not one of the nine voted for HRC, not one. Are they sorry? Damn right they are!!

We (siblings and cousins who are their parents) had to work hard to get to this point with them. We failed, obviously, to help them understand our history since the 1990s. Of course there was the all the talk about the Crime Bill, the super predator flap, crime back in the 70's, the drug wars etc. And I will add here that we had no ideal how these young folks were going to vote once inside the voting booth. We thought we knew but none of us had really paid that much attention to what they were doing with their politics. We thought we had taught them what they needed to know to be good Democrats.

ALL nine are sorry that they either sat out or voted for Stein. (To this day we still aren't certain about how they actually voted, only what they told us.) One daughter of a cousin is a bitter for of Nina Turner at this point. And as far as Trump and the political scene right now, they all seem less and less interested in politics and political issues right now...sort of drop outs. All we parents have become much more active politically as a result of 2016 as well as all of our extended families.

Not doing anything here except telling what I know to be the case with our family who lives and works in Maryland, Delaware, and PA. As for those of us who live in IL, MI, CA, GA, FL, CO...we haven't had a reunion lately to know their political stories. But I bet they are similar.

[kstewart33]

73. Well said.

Thank you for your post.

The debate on Monday should tell us a good deal about where Bernie stands at this point. I'm hoping that he will focus like a laser beam on killing the G-C bill. If not, well then Bernie's being Bernie and that's the problem.

I'm not sure that most of those who stayed home on election day do regret their decision, but they should, given the obvious and terrible consequences of that decision.

I expect Bernie will run in 2020. I also hope that his supporters will realize that no one, absolutely no one who is 80 years old should be president of the US. Not Bernie, not Biden, not Hillary (if she were that age), no one. It's ludicrous.

I'm hoping that we find a new voice, a new and younger candidate, who can speak for both Democrats and Bernie supporters.

[bluepen]

75. Great post. But I wont give up on them coming to their senses.

[Voltaire2]

78. like that rock and roll?

[bluepen]

81. No. Rock and roll is here to stay. Bernie is done.

He can take his place next to Ron Paul in the Museum of Political Fads and Bandwagons of the 21st Century.

[NurseJackie]

5. Good to know ... If he doesn't, then I won't either.

[factfinder_77]

10. So you rather want Trump get reelected ?

We need all hands on deck on this one.

[Sunlei]

19. fuck Donald he's the Republicans problem.

[pnwmom]

99. You think that people believing Sanders will cause Trump to get re-elected?

[kstewart33]

6. Okay, then.

Hope that video is handy if/when Bernie again goes to the Democratic Party for only its benefits and resources for a run in 2020.

[Sunlei]

17. perhaps he doesn't want to run as independent because a spoiler in GE like Stein really fucks the D.

think about that.

[kstewart33]

27. That's a very optimistic possibility.

Could be, but no one brought up that possibility during the 2016 campaign, and Bernie and the DNC went at each other for months. There is no love lost between Bernie and the Democratic Party so it's difficult to believe that he would run as a Democrat to help the Democratic party.

Dianne Feinstein, one of the most diplomatic and effective members of the Senate, when asked why so few Democratic Senators work enthusiastically with Bernie, said with a smile (best I can recall), "Bernie isn't the easiest person to work with."

IMHO, that is Bernie's biggest problem.

[Sunlei]

35. He's a crankie man sometimes but he's on our side! You don't have to 'like' everyone you work with.

[kstewart33]

70. Being a crank isn't the problem.

It's his "my way or the highway" attitude. An inability to compromise. That is kind of person is very difficult to work with.

[Sunlei]

85. tough, he votes with Ds & says we have a right to healthcare. He works hard for US.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[shanny]

7. Alert the media!

[pangaia]

8. LOLOL HALIBUT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sunlei]

13. Sanders about two weeks ago, "Do not leave the D party, support the D Party"

please quit helping Republicans drive wedges against our D party supporters

Love,
Sunlei

[factfinder_77]

18. So why was Sanders Senate campaign committee registered as independent for 2018 at Oct 10, 2015

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029623344

[Sunlei]

20. because he's not running for president in 2018

He's a sitting Senator

[Grassy Knoll]

14. The Big One...

[hedda_foil]

16. You realize, no doubt, that this was early in the year, when he partnered with the DNC

On a unity tour. Not that it makes any difference to you. I deeply regret your determination to continually attempt to make an easily bridgeable difference into a permanent divide. Now that I think of it, that's precisely the way some here drove Sanders primary voters to JPR , where they were treated to more of the Russians' finest propaganda. And so it continues.

[Me.]

21. Has He Become A Dem Since THen

he keeps telling us who he is, he should know, yet some refuse to believe it

[factfinder_77]

22. So thats why he lambasts 'absolute failure' of Democratic party's strategy

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/11/bernie-sanders-lambasts-absolute-failure-of-democratic-partys-strategy

Vermont senator hails successes of progressive agenda but says establishment Democrats stand in the way of further gains

[Me.]

26. I Can't Help Wondering

Whether or not he walks his talk

[Ken Burch]

42. Given how 2016 turned out, what else can you call that strategy?

A party can't be considered strong and effective if it keeps losing ground at the state level for years and years and years, is in the minority in Congress, and doesn't hold the White House.

He may have phrased it harshly, but is there any good reason to see the party as successful?

Or to think we can win in '18 and '20 by just doing the same things over again?

We can't make a comeback without making SOME changes.

[CherokeeFiddle]

62. Do you think this is wrong?

“The Democratic party needs fundamental change. What it needs is to open up its doors to working people, and young people, and older people who are prepared to fight for social and economic justice.

“The Democratic party must understand what side it is on. And that cannot be the side of Wall Street, or the fossil fuel industry, or the drug companies.”

Is that statement incorrect? Because I think it is dead on the money.

[kcr]

83. That's classic. You can put anything in there to suggest anything you want.

The Democratic party needs to stop beating their spouses." Is that statement incorrect? I mean, can't say they should keep doing it, can ya? Dead on the money!

[Me.]

87. I don't Understand The Correlation Between My Response & Yours

[fallout87]

38. I will

Judge him by his actions, not by what he says. His actions dont tell me that he's a democrat.

[CherokeeFiddle]

64. What actions are those?

Fighting to insure everyone?
Voting against the recent NDAA?
Rallying people over the summer to fight against "Trumpcare"?
Bringing young voters into the political process?
Saying Saudi Arabia is no ally of ours?
Voting no on Trumpcare?
Restricting the Bailout to Protect U.S. Workers?
Exposing corruption in the Military-Industrial complex with his amendment?
Support for treating Autism in military health care?
Marching with Nissan workers in Mississippi & defending and calling for their right to unionize?
Marching with fast food workers in the Fight For $15?


I judge him by his actions. His actions tell me he is busting his ass for the working class, sick & poor.

[Xolodno]

24. I'm of the opinion...

...people don't want the party to evolve left, they want it force-ably moved right.

You know, just in case, the GOP really doesn't recover after the hurricane they know is coming at them.

[factfinder_77]

30. The Democratic Party s is composed of various factions - enough agreement between them to coexist

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factions_in_the_Democratic_Party_(United_States)

[Xolodno]

34. Yes. And the GOP isn't one of them.

Also, you may want to fix your link.

Socialists also vote "D" as Libertarians vote "R". The GOP has enough sense not to alienate Libertarians, likewise, nor should the Democratic Party alienate Socialists just because they don't agree on the economic system. But we shouldn't sell ourselves for "GOP lite". Progressive values should be the goal, not backward conservative and bankrupt ones.

Bitching and moaning about Bernie is beating a dead horse.

[CherokeeFiddle]

65. BRAVO!

[Ken Burch]

40. It would be meaningless to beat the GOP by BECOMING the GOP, or by stopping just short of that.

The country doesn't need TWO conservative parties.

And once we moved that far right for the short-term, we could never be progressive again after that.

[Xolodno]

44. Agreed.

You said it better than I did.

This is just speculation on my part, but I wonder if the TEA Party fiasco blow back is also hitting us. Moderates in the GOP did little to fight against the hard right. Many seemed to have just gave up and joined the Democratic Party and many were welcomed. Now are trying to drag us right or have been dragging us right for their satisfaction.

Bernie, love him or hate him, did point out, that the US is center-right is either a myth or well on its way out. The country, albeit slowly, is marching left. They can point that Congress and the WH is controlled by the GOP and we therefore must move in that direction, but its fallacy. The gerrymandering, voter suppression, etc. shows the opposite, if one is confident that the country is right leaning, then why the questionable tactics?

[nini]

25. I don't consider him one either

.

[no_hypocrisy]

29. A Rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

[democrank]

31. Of course he's not a Democrat. There's one of these after his name.......(I)

He's a senator from Vermont, right? Vermonters know he's an Independent and they elected him with over 70% of the vote in his last senate race. Vermonters don't hate Independents. They like it when folks from different parties work together for the good of all.

My advice to the anti-Bernie folks....Even though some Democratic leaders welcome Bernie's help and support, just hope and pray Bernie stops working with the Democratic Party and takes all his awful, far-left Socialist voters with him. Purity, not unity. That should be our mantra.

I realize over 40% of voters are Independents, but our party will attract most of them so long as we're successful in getting rid of Bernie.

Imagine....he's even in favor of Medicare for All. I don't understand why, because things are great just the way they are. Drug prices are quite low, health insurance is extremely affordable. It simply can't get any more perfect. Bernie should sit down, shut up and be grateful we have the best health care system on the face of the earth.

[R B Garr]

33. Those threats of splitting the party are meaningless

anymore.

You have to live with the same results as everyone else.

Edit-he also said he needed the media attention as a Democrat, so obviously there is value in the party.

[democrank]

37. Who's threatening?

I've been busy doing math.

There are more Independents than Democrats.

In the last decade or so, Democrats have lost around 1,000 state and federal seats.

A majority of states are red.

Something has to change.

[R B Garr]

45. Yet I's have never won anything. Even Bernie didn't want

to run as an Independent.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

36. I think you forgot this;

[Snackshack]

32. That's probably the...

Reason he is an Independent.

[Ken Burch]

39. Why will you not let up on this?

If we did what you want and treated Bernie as the enemy, only the Right would benefit.

Especially since he's certain to be re-elected in a landslide in Vermont in '18.

[JCanete]

48. Wow, revelatory....everybody knows sanders doesn't identify

Last edited Tue Oct 3, 2017, 12:41 PM - Edit history (1)

as a democrat. Most democrats don't seem to have a problem with that.

Edited: because I cringed at just how dickish my comment was. Dialing down the abusiveness that was totally uncalled for. Sorry factfinder.

[Quixote1818]

50. If the party were more like it was before Bill Clinton he probably would register as a Dem. nt

[Warpy]

51. Get a new hobby.

[chillfactor]

52. no suprise there....

if bernie really had Democratic Party values, he would register as a Democrat...he clearly hasn't done that.....and I truly believe he was one of the reasons Hillary lost the election. I have no respect for bernie.

[CherokeeFiddle]

67. What are these "Democratic Party values" Bernie doesn't have?

Explain this to us please.

[Lunabell]

54. He's what democrats should be

Used to be.

[oberliner]

56. Used to be when?

What time frame are you talking about?

[Lunabell]

63. The party of Jimmy Carter

[WinkyDink]

66. A truly good man who had dirt done to him (I'd like to know the truth of Oliver

North's role in the debacle of Operation Eagle Claw.)

[oberliner]

69. Do you remember the Carter v. Kennedy primary battle?

Last edited Sat Sep 23, 2017, 09:11 AM - Edit history (1)

Carter was the centrist and Kennedy was the liberal. Kennedy fought him all the way to the convention, demanding a more liberal party platform.

[JNelson6563]

55. He's leader of the Bernie party.

I'm just glad we don't have the big ego problems they have on the right.

[MyNameGoesHere]

57. DU says to support Democrats and independents

Who align themselves with the Democratic party. (Senator Sanders specifically by name) If a person bashes the party does that rule still apply? What is acceptable behavior for a politician that is supposedly aligned with democrats? How about we apply the same rule to political figures that despise the democratic party and ban them?

[democratisphere]

58. I don't consider you a democrat either Bernie.

There are more important issues than always basking in the limelight.

[doubleplusgood]

76. Spasibo, tovarich

Now, go away.

[vi5]

77. This is a big mistake......

....not aligning himself with such a beloved institution with such a strong track record of victory? How foolish of him.

[aikoaiko]

79. Bernie is helping the party be a better Democratic Party whether you like it or not.

And I'm proud that he is a leader of the Democratic I Party.

[liberal N proud]

80. But we, the Democratic are supposed to accept the BS ideology

NOT!

[Eyeball_Kid]

84. Form or function? The Russians want to know.

Russians are quite willing to jump all over this false narrative that Sanders' political views are foreign to Democratic Party views. Russians LOVE to parse words, concepts, and groups to suit their own interests. Russians want to deconstruct. They'd love to have the Democrats fighting among themselves. They've been all over the 2016 elections doing just that.

For political purposes, Sanders is strongly allied with the Democrats and the Dems know it. He speaks to the issues that Democrats value. I don't give a rip whether he calls himself an Independent or not. His values resonate with a majority of citizens in the same way that the Democrats' values resonate with the majority of citizens.

[jalan48]

86. A strong and pricipled man who works side by side with the Party.

Thank you Senator Sanders.

[kentuck]

96. Considering the number of people that voted for Bernie...

... there seems to be a large number of people that don't consider themselves "Democrats".

These people could be our friends or they could be our enemies?

Which would we prefer?

That might end up being the only option left?

[Ninsianna]

98. When they're attacking us, it seems they wish to be our enemies

They spend their time attacking us and not Trump, one has to wonder why, especially when one considers how many of them actually voted for Trump. Which of the other people who spend their days and nights attacking us should we make friends with?

[pnwmom]

100. The vast majority who voted for Bernie consider themselves Democrats. n/t

[left-of-center2012]

101. The more Bernie and supporters get trashed ...

... the harder it will be to get their support in 2018 and 2020.

Bummer.

[SMC22307]

103. I don't care...

nor do millions of others. But keep fucking that chicken...