What I find so frustrating about the NFL players "taking a knee"

[SHRED]

What really frustrates me is people, including the Don the Con, who continue to push the phony meme that this is about "disrespecting the flag, the military, and the country".

Colin Kaepernick said from the beginning what this is about. Unarmed people of color being gunned down in the streets by law enforcement with no justice and the damage of institutionalized racism overall.

Yet we still have millions in this country who can't, or refuse to think.

[MyOwnPeace]

1. Yeah, like

the 63 million who voted for Orange Cheat-o!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

11. Love Cheetohs... but Donny (orange) Tiny Hands ruined em for me.

[Borchkins]

21. I still love then and with each bite, I release a bit of frustration!

[HopeAgain]

2. They have sucessfully reframed the issue ... again

They use emotion and we use intellect. The dumber Americans get, the more we lose.

[Amimnoch]

30. Exactly! We HAVE to get critical thinking into highschools

and make the course a requirement.

I've been saying for a long time now, a course in Critical thinking should be a part of every high school curriculum, and it should be a required course for graduation.

More than ever with the fake meme's, actual fake news, and intentional propaganda misinformation; the ability to sift through information, identify facts, consider different perspectives, and weigh evidence is severely lacking these days.

?w=619&h=512

[SalviaBlue]

45. good graphic

[Amimnoch]

48. It was a course I took at university.

IMO, critical thinking was one of the most transformative, enlightening, and beneficial courses I think I've ever had the privilege to take.

It forces you to look at yourself, your values, and identify influencing factors such as encultured values. Then you remove those influences from your logic process.

[SalviaBlue]

51. I could not agree more!

And, yes, it should required in high school!

[ProudLib72]

57. Too bad this graphic wasn't around last night

when I was confronting rampant ethnocentrism here on DU! The only thing I would add to it is a dispassionate/objective approach.

[iluvtennis]

70. Absolutely

[Madam45for2923]

3. As Donald disses freedom of speech, press, religion, due process, equality, HE DISRESPECTS THE FLAG

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

6. Ding, ding ding!!! We hava winna!!!

[Madam45for2923]

12. As he colludes w/our adversaries 2 affect American elections, he's traitor & HE DISRESPECTS D FLAG

[MichMan]

4. If you have to explain why you are protesting, you are doing a poor job of it

Anytime you have to constantly explain what it is you are protesting about means it is ineffective

[SHRED]

5. I think because it was done during the national anthem

It gave the knee jerk RWNUTS an opening to associate it with the flag and country.

I am torn up about that.
On one hand it made an impact and on another hand maybe a solid showing before the anthem started would have been more effective in getting the message out.
i am probably off base but just some thoughts.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

8. CK said it best, right out of the gate...

“I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses Black people and people of color." Whoop... there it is!!!

Neither will I... ever again, til we right this terrible wrong.

[Laurian]

9. Or some people choose not to understand and change the

narrative to fit their prejudices. Or they're just ignorant and easily duped.

[SHRED]

10. I think this is it

They bend reality to suit their prejudices.

We all do it to some degree but in this case it's just gross.

[luvtheGWN]

22. The GOP are dangerously adept

at changing the narrative, and the gormless public buys it. Remember "death panels"?

[King_Klonopin]

72. It's the same method of distortion they used against BLM

They twisted the movement into Black lives VS White people
and made the victims seem to be the aggressors. People
were exercising a right to protect themselves from violence.
They were made to appear angry and "aggressive".

It's what they did during the Civil Rights movement of the
1960's -- nothing new to authoritarian and oppressive racists:
If a Black man puts up his arms to defend himself from the
blows of racism and hatred, accuse him of being a threatening
and angry figure.

The act of taking a knee during the national anthem is just
a variation on the theme. Black men are protesting injustice,
racism, a two-tiered society, and state-sanctioned MURDER.
They are being falsely accused of protesting America, The Flag,
The Troops, The Constitution, grandma, puppies and anything
else which can be conflated by the skillful tongues of deceit.

They are dishonest to an evil degree, and those who buy this
crap are beyond stupid. But it never fails to work because
Americans are suckers for this fascist bullshit.

[milestogo]

18. You always have to explain why you are protesting.

[EffieBlack]

42. Kaepernick has explained repeatedly why he is protesting

The fact that people aren't listening - or pretending not to - is not on him. It's on them.

And I have a feeling that even if he did a national broadcast every morning explaining himself again, people would STILL demand that he "explain" himself to them.

[LenaBaby61]

52. "You always have to explain why you are protesting."

Last edited Wed Sep 27, 2017, 09:24 PM - Edit history (1)

And it's NEVER a right time for minorities or for those who are down-trodden to protest anything wrong in this country.

Many in this country don't have to worry about being unarmed and MURDERED by rotten policemen (Who get away with it), of course you don't give a damn, and you don't CARE about the issue Kaepernick was kneeling about

That installed, tReasonous piece of filth is continuing to go after African-American athletes, Jemele Hill--African-Americans in general. Just because they're athletes/sportscasters who make money they have NO right to say anything about or protest indignities, racism, sexism? They don't have a right to want this country to be BETTER?

Again, they'll NEVER be a right time for protestation, even if peaceful. NEVER--especially if you're a minority, and it's simplistic to think that there is a "proper" way for African-Americans to protest racism.

It was not the right time in 1965 for Dr. King to take a knee in silent, peaceful prayer either.


It also wasn't the right time as my fellow Native Americans to protested as they're being pepper-sprayed and tear-gassed @ Standing Rock by policemen in 2016.


Yet it's ALWAYS the "right time" for ANGRY, RACIST, privileged white men to march under a got damn NAZI flag protesting the removal of a treasonous asshole's statue, and it's of course crickets from that fat, mentally-ill, racist bastid who said that they were "good" people. He had to be forced to read something negative about THEM "Sieg Heiling" and chanting disgustin things about Jewish people.



LeBron James IS a rich, famous, and mostly popular athlete, but that didn't absolve HIM from having NI**ER written on his gate/fence.

(Not sure if this is a legit photo of his house after it was vandalized, but that's what it was represented as).

All of his money won't absolve him from being shot and killed by rogue policemen IF one decides to go after him.



tRumptun's doing what putin wants him to--the ruskies are STILL meddling, STILL making trouble over in this country by trying to get a worse culture war going now. The Flag is being used as a prop for that.


I hope that I live long enough to see some of the KARMA that's going to befall tRumputin and putin, beauguard and their filthy ilk, because it's gonna be horrific

[milestogo]

53. I'm afraid you projected quite a bit onto my statement.

As someone who has been involved in a fair number of protests concerning a fair number of issues, my experience has been that people often don't understand what protests are about. Its a chance to open a dialogue.

That's all I said, and you piled all your baggage onto it.

[LenaBaby61]

55. You call ....

Being murdered by police baggage? IF people don't "get" that rogue policemen are murdering unarmed black males at an alarming clip and getting away with it, then they'll never understand what taking a knee is all about no matter how much you open dialogue with them.

Are you a non-minority? Meaning that you might not have to worry about driving, riding around or breathing while black and being murdered by rogue police, who inevitably get away with it.

Must be nice .....

[milestogo]

56. WHY ARE YOU PUTTING WORDS INTO MY MOUTH?

What is wrong with you? Are you incapable of listening to another person?

[LenaBaby61]

59. You're the genius ...

Who said that we need to open dialogue up with those who don't get what taking a knee means: Black males are being MURDERED AT AN ALARMING CLIP LIKE BIG GAME BY ROGUE POLICEMEN WHO THEN HAVE A BENCH TRIAL AND GET AWAY WITH IT. YOU called being murdered by rogue police "baggage."

You never said that if you were non-minority, and if you're not, it must be nice to be able to ride around and feel free huh? I've had relatives on my African-American side and Native American side who've been harassed and in a few cases beaten by police, so I GET IT. Didn't matter that many of them served honorably in the military, and had never been in trouble with the law, they were STILL seen as "disposable" by the rogue police that harassed/beat them. Who knows when MY time will be up--when a rogue policeman might stop me and beat my ass or worse--murder me. I'm Native American & African-American, so I definitely get it, and being a woman doesn't matter.

Sorry, my bad. Bringing up all that "Being a minority/unarmed and murdered by rogue police baggage" and all

[milestogo]

60. I said nothing of the sort.

Your post is entirely based on what you have projected onto me, not on anything I've actually said.

You are hostile and irrational.

[LenaBaby61]

64. "You are hostile and irrational."

Last edited Thu Sep 28, 2017, 03:16 PM - Edit history (1)

"As someone who has been involved in a fair number of protests concerning a fair number of issues, my experience has been that people often don't understand what protests are about. Its a chance to open a dialogue.

That's all I said, and you piled all your baggage onto it."

This is what you said ^^^^

Me classifying being murdered by rogue police who then get away with it as BAGGAGE is PAST irrational. It's ignorant, especially given the fact that many people who are non-minority KNOW what taking a knee is and they STILL don't get it and don't want to get it due to them being RACIST. I bet if whites were being murdered by black rogue police like that, they'd be more than up in arms. But you go on ahead and continue opening up dialogue with those kind of folks until you're blue in the face, while blacks/minorities continue to be murdered like big game animals at an alarming rate, with the rogue murdering police doing the murdering getting away with it. SMDH.

So sorry to know that to YOU murder is merely "baggage," and no big deal ....


Must be nice to be able to avoid being murdered by rogue police just because you're black.

[Orsino]

20. If you have an entrenched white supremacist power structure in place...

...the quality of your protest won't matter much. You'll just have to keep protesting down the decades, fighting for every inch.

[Iggo]

24. No, it means you're not explaining it enough.

Say the words.

"Police are killing unarmed black people. I'm protesting that DURING the national anthem because that's the only time you idiots are paying attention."

You can leave out the word "idiots" if you want.

[EffieBlack]

43. Kaepernick and many others have said this over aand over

But I'm sure they appreciate your instructions on the proper way to protest so that they can get plenty of attention ...

[Iggo]

47. They?

[EffieBlack]

68. Yes. They

Colin Kaepernick is not the only player kneeling, you know.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/opinion/colin-kaepernick-football-protests.html?mcubz=1

[billh58]

26. Everyone, including the white supremacist Orange Anus-mouth,

knows why they are protesting. The racist right-wing asshats who make up Trump's base just choose to believe the lies about "politics" and patriotism that the right-wing uses to reframe the real issue: the routine murder of unarmed black people by racist, vigilante cops.

If the protest is "ineffective" as you claim, then why are so many white supremacists and nationalists so rattled by it? It is NOT ineffective. For Dotard and his followers it is highly effective or they would not be so upset.

[CrispyQ]

27. If you have to hijack a protest in an effort to distract & silence the voices,

maybe the protesters have a point.

[Iggo]

28. A million times THIS.

[druidity33]

49. Thank you for that graphic! Saved. K&R. nt.

[LenaBaby61]

66. To a poster that called me "hostile and irrational ...."

ALL of these black males who've been murdered by rogue/racist policemen like big game is mere

BAGGAGE.

Must be nice to be free and blend in--you know, not have to worry about being murdered like big game by rogue/racist police who most likely will get away with it.

[spanone]

7. trump hijacked Kaepernick's entire protest for some cheap jingoism....that's just who he is

a cheap politician who always takes the cheap shot

[Bleacher Creature]

13. You should read this op-ed.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/opinion/colin-kaepernick-football-protests.html

It's written by Eric Reid, who was Kaepernick's teammate in San Francisco. The decision to kneel was carefully thought out. They wanted to voice their concerns about police violence, but in a way that was as respectful as possible. If they really wanted to disrespect the flag or the anthem - which makes no sense to me as I fail to understand how you can "disrespect' an inanimate object - they could have just sat down.

[Saviolo]

19. There was a good Twitter thread about it, too...

Kaepernick actually went and spoke to veterans about his protest, and they suggested the knee:

Link to tweet

The whole thread starts here:

Link to tweet

[Bleacher Creature]

29. Thanks! Nuance and detail both seem to be lacking these days. Nt

[4139]

14. Colin choose the National Anthem as it was the only way to get the media attention

He was acting alone... it was the only option.

[SHRED]

15. I can see that

[workinclasszero]

16. The right wing fake news propaganda organs are busy 24/7

Fox 'news', hate radio and Russian fake news, all day every day.

[TNNurse]

17. Clearly there are people in this country that think that the flag and the anthem

are only for the military. The rest of us are not significant.

I respect the military, but they are not the only ones who count.

I am not a football fan but respect and admire those who have a public forum even if it is a football field. They are using their ability to get attention to try and address some horrible bigotry.

[DK504]

23. Nor do they believe in the 1st Amendment right of free speech.

They only want people (white people) to have gatherings for themselves and those that follow their rules are out of bounds.

They don't know the 1st Amend states seperation of church and state.

[RobinA]

62. This Annoys Me Too

suddenly the flag and the anthem are all about the military. It's like America is a sports team and the military is the players. "I fought for that flag" "You better show proper respect for that flag, men fought and died for it." YOU DISSED MY TEAM. WWHHAA!!!!

[IronLionZion]

25. Colin started out by just sitting quietly

Ironically his friend who was a military veteran told him it would be more respectful to current and former military if he knelt instead, so he started kneeling. Lots of military veterans are supportive of this protest. Lots of military veterans are black.

Megan Rapinoe joined in immediately afterwards in solidarity with Colin.

[unblock]

31. once again, i find the media's right-wing frame to be the problem.

kaepernick started a quiet protest to call attention to black americans getting killed in routine traffic stops.

so thrilled are the media to have a story where the right-wing gets to be offended and those of us on the other side are supposedly being unpatriotic that they barely even mentions the entire purpose of the quiet protest.

the frame is entirely biased toward the right-wing.

it casts right-wingers as patriotic people
it casts right-wingers as righteous victims
it casts black people as unpatriotic
and most importantly it *completely ignores the dead black americans*

sure, we can blame donnie for pushing the media in that direction, but the media is more than capable of reporting the whole story and more than capable of ignoring what national figures say when they feel like it (e.g., when their name is hillary).

but they don't, they just do donnie's bidding like good little propagandists.

[SHRED]

32. Well said

[FLPanhandle]

33. +1

Sums up what I've seen and heard since the weekend.

[The Wizard]

35. +1 (NT)

[The Wizard]

34. Their willful ignorance

will betray them in the end. Bigotry is a toxic character trait prevalent in Republicans. Like lying, it's in their DNA.

[Hayduke Bomgarte]

36. "we still have millions in this country who can't, or refuse to think"

Both

[MichMan]

37. IMO protest is analogous to advertising

If you have an advertising campaign to convince people to buy what you are selling, and a large portion of the population doesn't understand it, your message isn't getting across and you are not effective.

You can blame it on stupid people or your competition mis representing it, but at some point if a lot of your audience isn't getting it, it might just be a poor job of getting your point across. You aren't trying to convince the zealots on either side as they are entrenched, but the vast majority of everyone else who may not know what your intentions are.

An effective protest method shouldn't require you to constantly remind people what it is you are actually protesting.

[JonLP24]

38. When the protest first started

There was plenty of conservations about racial injustice. I remember Outside the Lines did many segments on this. As Michael Bennett & others continued the protests they were raising awareness on this issue especially after LVPD detained Bennett and now you have these protests which again raised awareness on the issue again. Trump actually jump started the movement.

I think it has been a success despite bullshit RW framing who will say there is no legitimate way for black people to protest. They criticize BLM they criticize every form of protest.

[EffieBlack]

46. Only it's not

Protesting isn't "advertising" - if it were, black folks with plenty of money would just hire the best mad men in the country and launch a campaign.

Protesting is not just about convincing people to buy a product. It is about shocking people out of their complacency, bringing an element of discomfort, "afflicting the comfortable."

[MichMan]

50. Either one is about getting your message out

We can disagree, but I see a lot of similarities between protesting and advertising. Both involve creating an image and story and communicating it to the target audience.

Like protesting, advertising can be subtle, thought provoking, or shocking.

All I am trying to say is that if the purpose of your message isn't getting out as intended, it is not achieving it's intended purpose. You don't have to convince the left, the far right will never be convinced, but it is the middle that should be who you are trying to get on your side.

You can call them ignorant or blame the media, but if most think the players are disrespectful of the anthem , flag, or country, you will get a lot of backlash and therefore have failed to get your message out making your protest ineffective.

Rosa Parks perhaps had one of the most effective protests. That along with the boycott was very persuasive and she became an icon. Nobody would ever say her methods were designed to shock people, but she was very sympathetic and garnered a lot of support around the country.

[EffieBlack]

69. What protest did Rosa Parks have?

If you're talking about the Montgomery Bus Boycott, that was done in response to many injustices, the most recent of which was Rosa Parks' arrest. But Mrs. Parks did not organize or lead the boycott.

Before you continue lecturing people about the history and purpose of civil rights protests, I suggest that you do some more research about them and not rely on the whitewashed, nostalgic but distorted history that you seem to be basing your opinions on. You can start with "Bus Ride to Justice" by Fred Gray, the attorney who was instrumental in strategizing and organizing the boycott, and, for more in-depth reading Taylor Branch's "Parting the Waters." Among other things, you will learn that virtually every protest during the 1950s-60s civil rights movement was dismissed as ineffective and wrong-headed because they weren't palatable to their supposed intended audience, just as you are dismissing this one.

[Soxfan58]

39. It is far more disrespectful

To wave a flag of a country that thousands of military men and women gave their life fighting against. Respect for vets? Imagine how the WW2 vets thought of Charlottesville. You can not consider nazis "good people" and respect vets at the same time.

[SHRED]

41. You inspired me to tweet this

Link to tweet

[Enoki33]

40. It is extremely easy for the Repugs to reframe

an issue. The average dotage supporter does not stop to check if what they are being fed is factually correct. Amazingly their anger will not allow them to even listen to anything negative. That has been my experience.

[SalviaBlue]

44. Willfully ignorant. nt

[Ferrets are Cool]

54. I expect nothing else from the PGIC. He is a less than slime. At least it has its uses.

[Crash2Parties]

58. Simply put, Republicans lie, and they are racist.

They've twisted the narrative & appropriated the "knee" to fit their needs. Including of course, Trump, who upon realizing that this whole NFL-knee thing was getting people's attention, just had to make it all about himself.

[Nitram]

61. You are not alone in expressing this point of view.

[Marcuse]

63. Trump disrespects the military, not Kap.

The military is one of the more inclusive American institutions. Trump has ordered the discharge of trained, qualified and experienced personnel simply because of who they are.

Last month Trump and deplorably good people were worshipping graven images of men infamous for killing US soldiers by the hundreds of thousands to preserve slavery. But they didn't consider that disrespectful, even as they killed another American.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

65. Swear to god, I just saw a posting --

from a friend on FB in which she talked about how disrespectful the whole thing was, how Kap was a rich man who had nothing to complain about blah blah blah. Several of her friends, including myself, chimed in to have their say. I made the point that no amount of money is going to protect a rich POC like Kap from being pulled over for DWB and being endangered and possibly shot by a cop. I also mentioned that members of the Armed Forces she was so quick to say were being disrespected were POC who had been targeted by cops, including being shot and killed. And then, for some reason, she claimed this whole kneeling thing was never about African-Americans. (?!?) My jaw just about dropped. Apparently I wasn't the only one shocked because another person stepped in and reminded her that Kap started the kneeling to bring attention to the deaths of African-Americans at the hands of police. She then shut down her thread claiming she was being bullied.

[LenaBaby61]

67. I guess to some folks who don't HAVE to worry about DWB....

Those black males on that list below is mere BAGGAGE as one poster on this site told me




Some people KNOW what taking a knee IS--have had it explained to them--and yet they still want those rich, black, disrespectful males to shut up and sing to the flag and forget about that uh black males being murdered by rogue/racist cops like big game baggage thingy

Just because you're a black, wealthy athlete you don't have the right to speak up or out about injustices/murder. You just need to shut up and play ball.

[Beartracks]

71. Ikr? That's like saying protest marchers "disrespect transportation." n/t