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Cattledog

(5,914 posts)
Mon Oct 2, 2017, 08:14 PM Oct 2017

The White Privilege of the Lone Wolf Shooter.

LAST NIGHT, THE United States experienced the deadliest mass shooting in modern American history. At least 58 people are dead and over 500 more wounded. No, that’s not a typo: more than 500 were injured in one, single incident.

As tens of thousands enjoyed a music festival on the streets of Las Vegas, 64-year-old Stephen Paddock, of Mesquite, Nevada, was perched 32 floors above them in his Mandalay Bay hotel room. Paddock had 19 rifles and hundreds of rounds of ammo — supplies that are plentiful in a nation that has more guns than people. A few minutes after 10 p.m., Paddock opened fire on the unsuspecting crowd. They were sitting ducks.

No expensive wall along the Mexican border would’ve prevented this. No Muslim ban stopping immigrants and refugees from a few randomly selected countries reaching our shores would’ve slowed this down.

Paddock, like the majority of mass shooters in this country, was a white American. And that simple fact changes absolutely everything about the way this horrible moment gets discussed in the media and the national discourse: Whiteness, somehow, protects men from being labeled terrorists.

Read the article at:

https://theintercept.com/2017/10/02/lone-wolf-white-privlege-las-vegas-stephen-paddock/

16 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The White Privilege of the Lone Wolf Shooter. (Original Post) Cattledog Oct 2017 OP
"Whiteness, somehow, protects men from being labeled terrorists." Azathoth Oct 2017 #1
Roof wasn't charged as a "terrorist" BumRushDaShow Oct 2017 #7
That's a legal distinction. Statutory language. Azathoth Oct 2017 #8
But you are describing the very problem BumRushDaShow Oct 2017 #10
There's no "pretzel-twisting" Azathoth Oct 2017 #14
Again, there is unequal application and ever-shifting definitions BumRushDaShow Oct 2017 #16
Roof is proof positive of what you're arguing against !!! He LITERALLY had to kill black people poin uponit7771 Oct 2017 #11
What are you talking about? Azathoth Oct 2017 #15
Whiteness, somehow, protects men from being labeled terrorists...This HipChick Oct 2017 #2
Yep, it truly does. Sad. arthritisR_US Oct 2017 #5
kick Dawson Leery Oct 2017 #3
"Terrorist" is a term thrown around too loosely as it is. Act_of_Reparation Oct 2017 #4
I feel like you are correct get the red out Oct 2017 #6
It's hard to say. Act_of_Reparation Oct 2017 #9
I have seen some rightwing posters claim that he was a Trump hating liberal. Blue_true Oct 2017 #12
Some people Rilgin Oct 2017 #13

Azathoth

(4,607 posts)
1. "Whiteness, somehow, protects men from being labeled terrorists."
Mon Oct 2, 2017, 08:17 PM
Oct 2017

Oh get the fuck lost. Dylann Roof was labeled a terrorist. So were the clowns supporting Cliven Bundy.

This kind of raw, race-baiting nonsense does nothing but foster hatred. It's the left-wing version of Breitbart.

BumRushDaShow

(128,748 posts)
7. Roof wasn't charged as a "terrorist"
Mon Oct 2, 2017, 08:40 PM
Oct 2017

He was charged with murder and hate crimes & Comey (at the time) claimed Roof didn't fit their fucked-up definition of "terrorist".

Azathoth

(4,607 posts)
8. That's a legal distinction. Statutory language.
Mon Oct 2, 2017, 08:49 PM
Oct 2017

Al Capone was prosecuted for tax evasion, for God's sake.

There was no doubt in anyone's mind that Roof did what he did for political reasons, in order to terrorize others, and he was labeled a terrorist as a result.

The nutcase who shot up Sandy Hook, by contrast, did what he did because he was severely mentally ill. No apparent political or social motive, no desire to terrorize the survivors into taking social or political action. Just a desire to kill others and then himself.

"Terrorism" is not a racial concept, no matter how bad the far left and the far right want to make it one.

BumRushDaShow

(128,748 posts)
10. But you are describing the very problem
Mon Oct 2, 2017, 08:57 PM
Oct 2017

that many of us have been posting. All sorts of pretzel-twisting to "exempt" a certain demographic out of the definition of whether what they did was a "terror" act or not ("legal" or "media-defined".)

And you can't exempt "race" out of it because -

1.) certain minority racial groups have been subject to terrorist-type attacks by a majority racial group
2.) there is a disparate application of the law based on race/ethnicity

These are subsets of the whole of this type of mass casualty event.

A "nut job" is a "nut job" whether he/she waves a confederate flag and then hauls off and kills 9 people in a church or whether he/she yells "Allahu Akbar" before doing similar in a supermarket. They are BOTH "nut jobs" but it seems that only one gets the "terrorism" label and the other does not.

Azathoth

(4,607 posts)
14. There's no "pretzel-twisting"
Mon Oct 2, 2017, 09:54 PM
Oct 2017

There are legal requirements for something to be prosecuted as terrorism. If you can't prove them all beyond a reasonable doubt, then you can't convict. Generally speaking, it's a lot easier to convict someone of terrorism if they have claimed allegiance to an acknowledged terrorist group. Roof was prosecuted for murder and hate crimes (by Loretta Lynch's Justice Department, not some right-wing yokel) because they knew they could prove the elements of those crimes beyond a reasonable doubt. They likely decided it was easier to prove he killed his victims because he hated them rather than because he was trying to effect some political scheme. From a prosecutor's point of view, the easiest path to the death penalty is the one you take.

However, this isn't about legal intricacies and prosecutorial tactics. This is about whether something is labeled terrorism in the national conversation. And Roof was certainly labeled a terrorist.

there is a disparate application of the law based on race/ethnicity

Link? I don't mean general stats, I mean specifically the prosecution of terrorism. I won't say you're wrong, but I'd like to a see an objective study that compares genuinely equivalent circumstances where only the race of the perpetrator differs.

A "nut job" is a "nut job" whether he/she waves a confederate flag and then hauls off and kills 9 people in a church or whether he/she yells "Allahu Akbar" before doing similar in a supermarket.

I agree. However, yelling "Allahu Akbar" usually is not just a crazy exclamation. It signifies allegiance to an ideological movement that has rational, if extreme, political goals and seeks to use violence to achieve those goals (recreating the Caliphate, establishing their brand of religious rule across the globe, etc.). Roof also adhered to a racist social/political ideology, and, as I said, was labeled a terrorist as a result.

BumRushDaShow

(128,748 posts)
16. Again, there is unequal application and ever-shifting definitions
Tue Oct 3, 2017, 05:59 AM
Oct 2017

Last edited Tue Oct 3, 2017, 06:31 AM - Edit history (2)

when one ignores acts perpetrated by domestic extremist groups. SPLC has a myriad of publications and articles about this. For example this - https://www.splcenter.org/20170925/hate-god%E2%80%99s-name

Ironically, the pretzel twist is when it comes to "hate crimes", they are apparently eliminated from consideration as "terrorism" despite involving identical tactics. That is discussed here -

The impact of terrorist attacks, far more than that of most other crimes, goes way beyond the number of victims. Such attacks send shock waves through targeted communities — racial groups, sexual minorities, Jews, Muslims, police and so on — and also can result, as security is ramped up, in a real loss of daily freedoms.

Other findings that emerged from the SPLC survey:

-Almost half of the attacks during the period apparently were motivated by the ideology of the antigovernment “Patriot” movement, including “sovereign citizens,” whose movement has been described by the FBI as “domestic terrorist.” A little more than that (51%) came from ideologies of hate, ranging from white supremacy to misogyny to radical Islamism.

https://www.splcenter.org/20150212/lone-wolf-report


If you read through this publication, starting about 1/2 way through, there is a timeline of every case from 2009 - 2015 (with a brief description and pictures and it is obvious who is being discussed).

That SPLC study also references a report done by the Congressional Research Service in 2012 (PDF). From that you find the following -

Sifting Domestic Terrorism from Other Illegal Activity

It may not be possible for investigators to describe the criminal activity involved early in an investigation as domestic terrorism. In these instances, investigators can work toward clarifying the motives of the suspects involved.25 Domestic terrorism cases differ from ordinary criminal activity in key ways. Most importantly, unlike ordinary criminals—who are often driven by self-centered motives such as profit and tend to opportunistically seek easy prey—domestic terrorists are driven by a cause or ideology.26 If the motives involved eventually align with the definition laid out in 18 U.S.C. §2331(5), presumably the case becomes a domestic terrorist investigation. In some instances, ideologically motivated actors can also collaborate with profit-driven individuals to commit crimes.

To further cloud matters, another category of criminal activity, hate crime, may appear to involve ideological issues. 27 However, as described by one federal official, a “hate crime” “generally involve[s] acts of personal malice directed at individuals” and is missing the broader motivations driving acts of domestic terrorism.28 For investigators, distinguishing between “personal malice” and ideologically motivated actions may be difficult in specific cases. This suggests that sorting domestic terrorism from hate crimes depends on the degree of a suspect’s intent. Did the suspect articulate an ideology, belong to a domestic terrorist group, or follow an extremist movement? The grey area between domestic terrorism and hate crime hints that in some instances, suspects with links to domestic terrorist movements or ideologies supporting domestic terrorism may be charged with hate crimes. 29 It is unclear to what extent this influences how the government understands the threat posed by extremist movements that hold racist beliefs. If some individuals of this ilk commit crimes against police or judges, for example, is the government more apt to label this activity as terrorism while individuals sharing these same racist motivations but targeting ordinary citizens based on race, religion, disability, ethnic origin, or sexual orientation are charged with hate crimes?

<...>


But here is the kicker (from same publication) -

<...>

Extremism vs. Terrorism

Another concept that muddies discussion of domestic terrorism is “extremism.” The latter term is commonly applied to homegrown actors, whether they be domestic terrorists or adherents of ideologies forwarded by foreign groups such as Al Qaeda. National security expert Jonathan Masters has suggested that many law enforcement officials likely view “extremism” as largely synonymous with “terrorism.”34 Masters has also found that there is a “lack of uniformity in the way domestic terrorist activities are prosecuted” in the United States.35 Presumably, using the term “extremist” allows prosecutors, policymakers, and investigators the flexibility to discuss terrorist-like activity without actually labeling it as “terrorism” and then having to prosecute it as such. This flexibility is certainly an asset to prosecutors. They can charge subjects of FBI domestic terrorism investigations under a wider array of statutes and, as a result, not describe the subjects publicly as terrorists. However, for policymakers this flexibility makes it hard to determine the scope of the domestic terrorist threat. One cannot get a clear sense of scope if some individuals are charged and publicly described as terrorists, others are discussed as extremists, and still others enter the public record only as criminals implicated in crimes not necessarily associated with terrorism, such as trespassing, arson, and tax fraud.

<...>

https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc85433/m1/1/high_res_d/R42536_2012May15.pdf


As you can see in the above, the Congressional Research Service points out the pretzel-twists.

Roof also adhered to a racist social/political ideology, and, as I said, was labeled a terrorist as a result.


He wasn't labeled as anything other than a hate-monger when it came time to prosecute. Edit to add this -

<...>

Under federal law, it is much easier to deploy terrorism-related charges against individuals inspired by radical Islam, because even elements like retweets can be considered material support for a designated foreign terrorist organization. The U.S. does not label domestic extremist groups as terrorist organizations, as banning Americans from supporting U.S.-based organizations would raise First Amendment issues.

Certain acts of terrorism are already illegal under federal law regardless of motivation, including airplane hijacking, the use of particular explosives and weapons, and assassinating a government official. But stabbings and shootings aren’t included.

Nor would ramming a car into a crowd of people count as an act of terrorism under federal law. The legal omission is a problem that has come up in other domestic terrorism incidents that have come under federal investigation.

In the case of mass killer Dylan Roof, former FBI Director James Comey was hesitant to describe the Charleston, South Carolina, church shootings as domestic terrorism, though former Attorney General Eric Holder (who was out of office at the time) did describe the attack as terrorism. Former Attorney General Loretta Lynch investigated Roof’s attack as a potential act of domestic terrorism, but the federal government ultimately brought only hate crimes charges, which Lynch described as “the original domestic terrorism.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/charlottesville-attack-domestic-terrorism-doj_us_5991eaa2e4b09071f69bb648


And as a note, the exclamation of "Allahu Akbar" is not some indication of an "allegiance to an ideological movement". It is nothing but an Arabic phrase that praises "God" as the most powerful and is part of the Islamic prayers. No different then someone saying "God is great, God is good, thank you for our daily bread (or some variation), Amen." in Christianity before eating. Someone using that phrase before committing a crime does not suddenly make the statement a criminal one. It makes the person uttering it a criminal who has chosen to abuse the term for their own reasons.

uponit7771

(90,335 posts)
11. Roof is proof positive of what you're arguing against !!! He LITERALLY had to kill black people poin
Mon Oct 2, 2017, 08:59 PM
Oct 2017

... point blank and claim he did it because of black people and then even after that white wing media doesn't want to call him a terrorist.

No really, there should be no counter position here; if your skin is darker you're more likely to be called a terrorist if you go nuts with a gun.

Azathoth

(4,607 posts)
15. What are you talking about?
Mon Oct 2, 2017, 10:01 PM
Oct 2017

"He literally had to commit terrorism pointe blank!!!"

Uh, duh. That's why he was labeled a terrorist. The scumbag who shot up Sandy Hook wasn't a terrorist. Sorry, not a race thing.

if your skin is darker you're more likely to be called a terrorist if you go nuts with a gun.

Uh, no, at least not in the non-right wing media. However, if you're Muslim and scream "Allahu Akbar!" as you pull the trigger, or leave behind a note pledging your allegiance to ISIS, then the odds increase that you will be preemptively labeled a terrorist.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
4. "Terrorist" is a term thrown around too loosely as it is.
Mon Oct 2, 2017, 08:24 PM
Oct 2017

A terrorist uses violence or threats of violence to affect socio-political change. They have a defined practical cause they support through violence and intimidation. Though perhaps not a necessity, they tend to be social and organized.

We could talk day and night about how the government is reluctant to call terrorist on a handful of domestic, predominantly white right wing groups that clearly fit the bill, but his guy doesn't seem to bear any of the hallmark qualities of a terrorist. By all accounts he was loner and as of yet there is no evidence of him subscribing to any particular ideology he wished to advance.

He's a murderous asshole. Until such a time we learn otherwise, I feel this is an adequate descriptor.

get the red out

(13,461 posts)
6. I feel like you are correct
Mon Oct 2, 2017, 08:40 PM
Oct 2017

This piece of shit is probably a poster boy for lack of mental healthcare and too damn many guns.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
9. It's hard to say.
Mon Oct 2, 2017, 08:55 PM
Oct 2017

Not about the guns, of course, but the mental health. Whatever was going on with him wasn't overt. Guys like Cho, Laughner, and Holmes... you could smell the crazy on them. They all had issues before they went on their respective rampages. Issues that damned well should have prevented them from obtaining guns.

This guy is different. Maybe something will pop up as we learn more, but he wasn't on anyone's radar. Could have been something subtle like psychopathy, perhaps, but it is hard to say.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
12. I have seen some rightwing posters claim that he was a Trump hating liberal.
Mon Oct 2, 2017, 09:11 PM
Oct 2017

That meme seems to be gaining steam on the site that I visited.

Rilgin

(787 posts)
13. Some people
Mon Oct 2, 2017, 09:24 PM
Oct 2017

Some people might think that today might be a day to discuss guns and our gun culture as the major problems that Las Vegas represents that leads to loss of life. Others think its all about how racism affects journalists. As a societal problem, the word terrorist or not did not kill the people in Las Vegas. No matter what your opinion on the issue you present its not the major issue of the day. The major issues involved in the horrible loss of life are mental health, gun rights, health care, safety, and the prevention of such senseless killings. There can be major disagreements about what to do but your post seems pretty callous to discuss whether we call him a terrorist or not as opposed to what is wrong with society that allowed or encouraged the killing.

A suggestion that you might concentrate on the loss of innocent life of all races and the continuous killing of all races that goes on in this country and the world today rather than try to make this all about what we call the person.

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