Morning Joe nails dark fantasy fueling gun nuts: They buy military weapons to kill American soldiers

[deminks]

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/10/morning-joe-nails-the-dark-fantasy-fueling-gun-nuts-they-buy-military-weapons-to-kill-american-soldiers/#.WdNw60uyXMU.twitter

MSNBC’s Joe Scarborough explained that anti-government hysteria kept gun advocates from accepting any measure to limit access to even the most deadly firearms.

The “Morning Joe” host said gun advocates insisted after every mass shooting that no laws could have stopped that tragedy, but he said law enforcement officials strongly disagreed.

“There’s no reason Americans should have military-style weapons in their possession,” Scarborough said.

He said the debate about firearm laws was fundamentally flawed because gun advocates refused to acknowledge the reason they wanted to stockpile military weaponry.

“There’s only one reason for people to have these weapons in their hands,” Scarborough said. “Only one reason, and it’s only one — (but) they will not say it in a radio debate or a TV debate. It’s because they think the government is coming to get them and they want to have a stockpile of weapons, and so it’s to kill American soldiers or members of the American government.”

(end snip)

Yup, I hear this every time. "I need weapons to fight the guvmint when they come for me and my guns".

[onecaliberal]

1. The government can take them out with a drone from the safety of another location.

And their guns are no match for bombs

[Hoyt]

2. If you assume the military is not like the gun-humpers. Seems to me a lot of our military

is pretty much as white wing as Trump's base.

[Hoyt]

8. There are a lot of military people that join for their love of guns, hatred of Muslims, racism, etc.

I know that for a fact. Christ, even though only 8% of today's population ever served in the military, police charged with brutality, racist groups, gun-lover groups, etc., have a large percentage of x-military. That ain't coincidence.



https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/04/the-greater-danger-military-trained-right-wing-extremists/275277/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/21/us-army-white-supremacists_n_1815137.html

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2006/several-high-profile-racist-extremists-serve-us-military

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/07/washington/07recruit.html

https://www.stripes.com/news/neo-nazis-excluded-from-military-service-by-policy-but-concerns-persist-1.483558#.WdOlfVtSypo

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-wisconsin-shooting-army/u-s-army-battling-racists-within-its-own-ranks-idUSBRE87K04Y20120821



"These days, the US military is more like a sanctuary for racists, gang members and the chronically unfit."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/aug/31/us-army-racism-iraq-afghanistan


Although I think you are wrong, and should know it, I would hope you don't get a hide.

[The Polack MSgt]

13. White supremacists join and when found are discharged

This issue was more acute 5-10 years ago when the pressure of 2 active combat zones caused the DoD to lower standards to fill the ranks.

"These days, the US military is more like a sanctuary for racists, gang members and the chronically unfit." is a quote in an article over 5 years old.

We purged a bunch of these shit heads after Oklahoma City. We did it again after the Sniper Scout flag issue.

We purged or are in the process of kicking clear of several KKK types in the aftermath of the Tiki Torch Nazi jamboree in Virginia.

The military is a cross section of America, so racists join, no one is dumb enough to claim otherwise, but it has hard rules regarding conduct and an embedded cadre of leaders that are strongly anti-Klan.

Your statement:

"If you assume the military is not like the gun-humpers. Seems to me a lot of our military is pretty much as white wing as Trump's base."

Is ignorant of the dynamic in the DoD and projects onto the majority an outdated and narrow interpretation of issues that came to a head under the last President.

[Hoyt]

14. Maybe you just don't recognize that kind of crap. I'm sure the official policy is "we don't accept

white wingers," but policy and actions often diverge.

[Alea]

41. How long and with what branch did you serve Hoyt

and what's with the "white winger" racial slur crap you throw around in almost every post and how do you get away with it? If someone used black winger in every post they made they'd probably be banned.

I served 8 years with multiple deployments. Never experienced the BS you're talking about.

[Hoyt]

42. Maybe, you too, accept it as normal behavior.

[Aristus]

12. Don't include people like me in yours.

I was a tank crewman in the Army from 1989 to 1993, including service in the Gulf in 1991.

I saw more white supremacy, bigotry, and racism all in one place when I was in the Army than anywhere else in my lifetime.

My best friend roomed with a guy who kept a Confederate flag on his wall. My friend was Filipino, and disliked the flag intensely, but didn't want to say anything in case it set white-boy off. I helped a little by sneaking into the room and putting anti-confederate Post-Its on the flag; my friend appreciated that.

This was the late eighties-early nineties; a lot of the music videos on MTV featured Whitney Houston, Jody Whately, En Vogue, and other artists. While the rest of the guys understandably when ga-ga for these gorgeous women when their videos came on, there were a number of sour-faced assholes who called them n*****s right in front of us.

I was disgusted by such ugly little men, and wished they had elected to stay home in Trailerville, rather than pollute the Army with their filth.

[billh58]

19. I served a litttle before you,

but I had the same experiences and impressions. Many of the "lifers" seemed to be racist imbeciles who couldn't make it on the outside.

[TomSlick]

39. MSgt

By the time I saw this post, there was too long a string to know where to butt-in but I wanted to thank you.

I was simply appalled at the baseless attack on the military.

Thank you.

COL, US (Ret.)

[Doreen]

22. My nephew went into the army and he despises guns a lot.

The only reason he joined is because it was his only way of going through college to become a civil engineer. He said that these days most people joining the military do it because getting into college has become almost impossible for those with little money. They are not there because they want to "fight for our country" they are there so they can actually have a life. Of course that is if they do not get killed in the attempt to get a life. Most of the people he met in his 6 years in the Army were not gun humpers with attitudes of right wing haters.

[Hoyt]

25. I'm OK with people who join for college. I think a lot that join today are Crusaders, Muslim haters.

Sorry.

[Doreen]

29. As I said, from the 6 years he was in MOST of the people that were there

were there for college. Most of them had no problem with Muslims, gays, or any other group or nationality. I am not saying there weren't any but that was a very small amount.

[Hoyt]

31. Maybe he was in a special unit or didn't associate with the white wingers. Small amount is too

many, and what happens if the small amount is in command?

[Doreen]

33. No, he was just a regular person who climbed up in rank but not some

special unit. The only thing he did that was different was lead a group to do rebuilding.

[whathehell]

23. and that is exactly what Joe Scar said..

He basically mocked their assinine reasoning.

[Lochloosa]

3. Now what ever gave him that idea?

[Beartracks]

34. OMg, look: Protestors on the road!

Where was that, Utah? Nevada? I wonder if those states are among the ones where there's a bill proposed that would limit punishment of drivers hitting protesters on the street...?

===========

[NewJeffCT]

44. Wolverines!

[octoberlib]

4. What they need is psychiatric counseling for their delusions instead of automatic weapons.

[uponit7771]

5. A weapon designed to kill massive amounts of people in a short time is a WMD ... period

[SDJay]

6. I Know A Few Of These Clowns

as they are distant members of my family. They are all bluster and basically fucking cowards. If the gubmint ever came for their guns, they'd shit in their pants. Even if any of them managed to grab for one of their beloved guns, they'd be vaporized before they ever got close. Yeah, my dumbfuck cousins are going to outmaneuver green berets. Right. None of them would even get the bag of Cheetos off their chests before they were either in cuffs or dead.

That 'argument' makes me crazy. It's about as logical as saying you keep a lot of duct tape around to tape the earth together in case a giant earthquake hits.

[snort]

20. Snort, redfaced,

posts several cases of duct tape on craigslist.

[Mopar151]

35. Colors?

Need to match my "fleet" colors.

[Skittles]

37. agreed

gun humpers are fucking COWARDS

[HAB911]

9. RWNJ don't understand that the 2nd Amendment is to DEFEND the government

not attack it. Attacking it is called treason/sedition. They should be locked up.

[Lucinda]

10. Yup. He is correct. n/t

[Orsino]

11. People eat the hearts of animals to gain their strength.

Whether or not a person ever served in uniform, military troops are a standard of bravery and competence in the minds of many. Consciously or not, a prepper wants those qualities and works up a righteous anger against a government/society to justify that violence. Aping military hardware and culture betrays a yearning for legitimacy, but also a desire to supplant authority by symbolically consuming it.

[Tom Rinaldo]

15. From my Journal, December 2012: "What isn't said about Guns"

"A small but increasingly influential element of the Republican Right opposes all efforts to regulate assault rifles, semi-automatic weapons, and high capacity ammo magazines precisely because they are effective in combat situations, but no one seems willing to say it. All of the eminently reasonable comments about hunters not needing automatic weapons to bag a deer miss the point completely...

"... Which begs the obvious unasked question: Is that why the most unflinching opponents of reasonable gun control measures refuse to give an inch? Are they arming themselves with the weapons most appropriate for future combat scenarios? I think it naïve to assume that the answer to that question is anything other than yes. Right wing militias have been forming for decades, training for overt military confrontations. Mainstream candidates for the U.S. Senate now talk openly about “Second Amendment remedies”. Increasingly the phrase, “Government is the enemy” has taken on literal implications..."

There's more:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10021988941

The NRA has been taken over by anti-government conspiratists. The Republican Party swears allegiance to armed rebellious forces.

[kairos12]

16. As a former Army infantryman I came to know the power of

military weapons all too well. As a consequence of this this I have always refused to have any type of firearm in my home. Gunhumpers make me retch.

[Hoyt]

27. My best friend is a Vietnam vet (Marines) and he can't stand guns.

[SunSeeker]

17. K & R

[gopiscrap]

18. no single individual should have automatic weapons for private use...period

[Cosmocat]

21. That isn't it

It is:

1) 1/3 general insecurity that guns somehow are like binkies to them
2) 1/3 They are toys/collectables
3) 1/3 Guns are central to the whole culture war melodrama, makes them feel holier than thou over the POC and latte sipping elites.

They just have bought into this tripe about needing guns to protect them from government because it is part of the programming the conservative movement has used to sucked them into #3

[Duppers]

36. Yep.

Matches my meager interactions with these sorts.

[Skittles]

38. in other words, gun humpers are fucking snowflakes

they are COWARDS

[gordianot]

24. You do need to worry about the nut next door but firearms will not save you.

That idiot who won the election and uses your tax money against you is your real enemy and by sheer numbers firearms will not provide relief, there are more than you can count and are easily replaced by someone worse. The hard part is living in spite of their design to keep you down.

[DonCoquixote]

26. some like rand paul are more honest

http://www.snopes.com/rand-paul-tweet-second-amendment-purpose-shoot-tyrannical-government/

[Soxfan58]

28. I want nuting to do with the gubmint!

Now give me my welfare check and leave, before I shoot ya.

[Martin Eden]

30. They fantasize about a shooting war against our own government ...

... but they think they are patriots.

[The_Casual_Observer]

32. One need only attend a protest where there are riot police to realize

that getting into some kind of serious conflict with them is a death wish.

Anyway, those idiots would be the first shits to form posses in support of a tyrannical overthrow, shit we are already seeing it.

[Oneironaut]

40. They all have masturbatory Red Dawn-style insurrection fantasies of murdering US troops.

They dream of the day that they can kill Liberals, US soldiers, members of the government, etc. I was listening to right wing radio today, and the topic was how Liberals are trying to take "their precioussss" away. Many of the callers said that the government was a threat to them, and they'll need their guns for "when the time comes." One caller insinuated that the time might be now.

There's an unhinged psychosis abound in the American gun owner community. They're stocked up for a war that will never happen. They may end up just shooting a family member, or committing suicide instead.

[raven mad]

43. Only one error...............

they can't speak this well.

[NewJeffCT]

45. I think that is part of the reason

another reason is that people buying guns think they're going to be overrun by gangs of black or Hispanic youth coming to get them - so, they need as many guns and as much ammo as possible to prevent this from happening. This is partly fueled by the media and the 24/7 news cycle we have now.

[Johnny2X2X]

46. Wow, this is exactly true

These gun nuts want these weapons because they think they need them to be able to kill US soldiers and US law enforcement.

These types of weapons have only one use, to kill human beings. They are terrible for hunting or for home defense, they are great at killing large numbers of people.