Is it possible that someone coerced the Vegas shooter to do it?

[Calculating]

I'm not usually one to cry conspiracy, but something really doesn't add up here. This guy doesn't fit the usual description of a rampage killer at all. Most are frustrated young males with a mental health history, angry political activists, or religious nuts doing it for political purposes.

This guy was wealthy, upper middle aged, had lived a good life, and didn't seem at all weird to people who knew him. This attack also took a very high level of planning, which implies the shooter still had his mental wits to some extent.

What if some group or individual had some kind of terrible leverage against him and forced him to do this? Maybe they had somebody important to him and threatened to torture the person and send him a piece every month unless he did this?

[HopeAgain]

1. Check your thinking...

You seem to be in disbelief that a white middle class elderly male can just be that fucked up.

[ret5hd]

10. Hey! Stop that, you hater!

White guys are the best. I bet you don't even know any!

[ret5hd]

2. Again I ask...What "very high level of planning"?

As I posted on another thread:

it seems to me that if he knew there was going to be a concert on a particular date, just call and make a reservation for a "nice room, high up, facing east (or west or whatever direction). Check in and get the room key, park the car and go to the room with the guns (maybe several trips).

Is there something I'm not grasping?

[lapfog_1]

16. he had to acquire his weapons and ammo

if they were newer semi-auto, he had to purchase the "bump stocks" or other means to convert them to near auto.

I bet he scouted the location first. He may have sent his GF out of the country or waited until she left.

Yes, he could have done even more planning... but this amount that we either know or can readily assume shows that this wasn't an impulse shooting... I don't believe that he woke up one morning and said to himself "Why don't I go get like 19 assault rifles and bump stocks and few thousand rounds, check into the Mandalay Bay and shoot up a concert across the street"

[ret5hd]

18. I agree with "planning"...I disagree with "very high level planning".

This didn't take some kinda James Bond effort. Maybe somewhere north of Al Bundy, but not James Bond.

[lapfog_1]

24. yes, in another post I outlined some of the obvious "plans"

someone could have easily done... especially if they wanted to "get away" with this (at least for a little while).

But he did exhibit a level of planning that precludes "impulse shooting".

The gambling losses could have mounted recently, potentially causing problems with his relationship with his GF, and that could have been the trigger for a "death by cop" scenario... and for some reason, the decision to take as many innocent people with him.

Financial records and the interview with GF should tell the tale on that.

[kcr]

43. Well, if we find out a light bulb needed changing, then the gig is up.

We'll definitely know we aren't being told the whole story

[exboyfil]

21. The guns could have been acquired over time

as a hobby. Trust me there are many where this is a hobby including recreational shooting (see Youtube).

Still I think there was some level of planning. In some ways he seems like a ghost in our modern age (very few photographs, no social media). You have to wonder if he didn't have another occupation - spy, hit man??

[lapfog_1]

30. If he was a high stakes gambler

as has been reported by his brother...

The Casinos not only have his photo everywhere, but they have people who know him on sight.

The casinos pay people to cater to the "whales" and high rollers. I used to go to Vegas, deposit $100,000 with the casino, and get comped to everything (rooms, buffet, shows, etc). Play the 5$ slots for around 30 minutes or so, either lose or win around $3000 to $4000, and then take the casino limo back to the airport after my weekend.

Over time... I would lose an average of around $500 a weekend doing that... but I got a great little "high roller" vacation out of it.

[ret5hd]

35. Ahhhh...so THAT'S how you do it!!!

[lapfog_1]

48. yeah, but the point was... if he was the gambler that people say he was

the casinos will have him on camera... a lot... plus there will be casino hosts who "know" him (at least enough to know his face and name and that he was a high stakes gambler).

I'm further guessing that they are intentionally staying off the TV right now for fear of negative publicity.

[brush]

27. Exactly. No "high level" of planning needed. I keep hearing that same thing too.

He was sent over the edge by something and booked a room and got the guns and ammo up there with several trips from his car in the hotel garage.

Nothing high level about it.

I hope his companion will be able to shed some light on the why.

It'll come out.

[obamanut2012]

58. Exactly -- it was the same planning as taking a mini vacation

[The_Casual_Observer]

3. Nice try, but that guy? It's extremely unlikely, he was a very typical

asshole.

[ret5hd]

7. Oops...eplied to wrong post.

[The_Casual_Observer]

13. I'm kind of disappointed you didn't tell me I wear my ignorance as a badge proudly.

Or that I'm a Marxist!. But this isn't Facebook I guess.

[ksoze]

4. It's been like 24 hours. The story is not written yet.

Too early to determine this guy is not responsible for this massacre. Some of the conspiracy stuff I have seem this morning on FB is frightening. Might want to give a few days to build the background on this guy to determine things.

[wasupaloopa]

5. They coerced him to kill himself? That makes no sense

[unblock]

12. i'm not buying the conspiracy angle, but it's certainly possible to coerce people to kill themselves

most obviously by threatening to kill their loved ones if they don't.

again, no reason to think that happened here, just saying that people can be coerced into killing themselves.

this is the case for some some suicide bombers.

[lapfog_1]

6. very unlikely

given the lenght of time to acquire the guns that he owned, the planning that was involved, the near certainty of his own death, etc.

Doesn't mean that this should be dismissed out of hand, but I don't see it.

[titaniumsalute]

8. He had 48 firearms...

That doesn't happen overnight. This was planned over some time. Maybe he was brilliant in that he was able to plan something so heinous and didn't tell anyone.

[moda253]

22. Or he was a gun nut and wasn't acquiring guns for this purpose initially?

ONce he had the guns then he bore out his plot?

Entirely possible (and probably likely) that he didn't have the plot before he bought the guns.

[brush]

29. Nah. Many who have guns collect them over time. Something just sent him over the edge.

No brilliant, long-range planning in that.

[titaniumsalute]

31. Why are we armchair quarterbacking this anyway??

None of us know.

[brush]

32. I know he went over the edge. Sane people don't kill 59 and injure 500 plus.

[LanternWaste]

39. Idle speculation. Benign curiosity.

"Why are we armchair quarterbacking this anyway??"

Idle speculation. Benign curiosity.

Thought that was damned obvious. Maybe not.

[yardwork]

9. He fits the profile of somebody who snaps very well.

Seems likely that he had a resentment against Las Vegas. It’s not difficult to guess what that was, since he was a high stakes gambler.

Also, his girlfriend was out of the country. Maybe she left him.

Lots of potential triggers there. Some people like to make a big name for themselves on their way out.

[Itchinjim]

11. No.

[SweetieD]

14. He fits the profile to me. He probably lost a lot of money and was angry at the world. Maybe he was

a psychopath like his father. Sounds like he was mostly a loner except for the one female friend, who happened to work as a high limit casino host, which is probably how he met her. His brother didn't know his life that well.

Also everyone says he is wealthy and that is subjective. We don't know how much his properties were mortgaged for and what debts he owed to casinos, banks, or individuals.

[ChicagoRonin]

15. Richard Cory

A song worth listening to

[Dave Starsky]

55. Edwin Arlington Robinson wrote that 1897.

Upright pillars of society who suddenly snap and lose their shit is not a new thing.

[Laurian]

17. I'm wondering if some kind of brain injury or recently developed

neurological disease/condition may have caused his rampage.

Whatever......restricted access to guns is the ONE thing that could have limited the horrific outcome.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

19. Is toxic masculinity so ingrained in our culture that people can't even see it?

"Forced him to do this"? JFC, listen to yourself.

[Xolodno]

20. I'm betting....

...he gambled everything he had away and was broke. Decided to take it out on everyone else.

[HipChick]

23. So...Special forces...SAS were in on it..

Coerced him...and he's the patsy?

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

25. You need to get a grip.

That's so much more complicated than: he lives in a culture that glorifies violence. Movies frequently show that going off on a shooting rampage is an appropriate way to solve problems.

Plus, don't the neighbors ALWAYS say, "He was such a good, normal person," even when it was well known that he set cats on fire in his spare time? (And no, I'm not referencing any specific individual here.)

Plus, if some group or individual had "some kind of terrible leverage against him" there would probably have been clues of that by now. Again, it's only in fiction (movies, TV, books) that these things occur very easily.

[Bradical79]

26. It's just reckless speculation

Lots of things are possible, but unless you are personally involved in the investigation and trained to build profiles of killers, any "it doesn't add up" or "he doesn't fit the profile" comments aren't really worth discussing.

[octoberlib]

28. Actually , every neighbor reporters have talked to

thought he was weird. They described him as aggressively unfriendly and he kept the blinds drawn all the time.

[FSogol]

33. ALCOA!

I feel bad for you.

[yodermon]

34. MKUltra 2.0

[GeorgeGist]

36. Maybe he was framed ...

and the real culprit[s] walked away?

[delisen]

37. The accounts given by those who knew him

don't seem to indicate that. His close relatives are accounted for, he had no children.

The other killers who come to mind are Charles Whitman (Texas tower) and the two teenagers at Columbine.

Paddock, shooting down at a crowd. seems further removed from his victims than Charles Whitman, who aimed at isolated individuals, or the two teenagers-who knew their victims and felt estranged from them.

Whitman had physical symptoms-debilitating headaches, and wanted his brain to be studied.(Some similarity to football players with brain damage). His autopsy indicated he had a brain tumor.

At least one of the teenagers at Columbine was being medicated.

We don't know as yet whether Paddock was under treatment or in need of treatment. Unlike Whitman, he seems to not have kept a journal or written about any symptoms.

The most basic commonality is that they are male. Mass murder, of course, is very disproportionately male and guns are the usual weapon used by males in mass killings.

I think these factor is still not being appropriately addressed in a way that can help prevent more civilian mass killing.

[obamanut2012]

38. Just stop -- I cannot believe I am seeing this stuff on here

This is like the third poster posting this stuff.

JUST STOP.

Quit making excuses for murderous white guys.

[anneboleyn]

57. I agree. I've seen posts from right wingers AND left wingers trying to link this guy to ISIS

That seems incredibly unlikely to me but of course these stories always get repeated when there is little info indicating motive. ISIS ffs?! I doubt it, and I seriously doubt the OP's questioning about whether or not someone "made" this guy do it. No. That doesn't happen.

[eShirl]

40. gambling problem that got real bad fast?

[obamanut2012]

41. Also, no, this didn't take any more planning than planning a vacation

STOP WITH THIS ALEX JONES STUFF ON THIS WEBSITE JUST STOP

[cwydro]

42. Oh please.

Would you even say something like that if it were anyone other than a white male?

[maxsolomon]

44. sure, it was the "Deep State Democrats"

FFS

[logosoco]

45. Wealthy, upper middle aged, lived a "good life"

those are not automatically signs of a decent person. Look at tRump, the Bushes, Dick Cheney, many members of Congress.
It seems to me that most of the information is coming from the brother, and it looks like they were not even that close.

[MLAA]

46. I'm curious to find out his true financial situation.

Most lose at casinos (I certainly do and I've been going there for 25 years). I also believe most peoples' true net worth is not known even by family members (look no further than 'I am with 10 billion' Trump). What little we know makes me wonder if an extreme event took place or it was a straw that broke the camel's back related to gambling losses.

[raccoon]

47. It's always possible somebody forced Oswald to kill JFK, but I doubt it. nt

[Blue_Tires]

49. Yes... Just like flapping my arms and flying to the moon is "possible"

[BannonsLiver]

50. George Soros made him do it.

[redstatebluegirl]

51. Fox News, the NRA, Trump?

[QED]

52. NBC says he wired $100,000 to the Philippines last week.

Link to tweet

[cwydro]

53. Two threads here on that."

"No effing way a white guy could do this".

Fuck that noise.

[LanternWaste]

54. Is there something troubling you you'd like to admit to us...?

Is there something troubling you you'd like to admit to us...?



If we allow for the potential you implied, we must also allow for the potential I implied.

Yet, seeing both are wholly without evidence to support the premise (post hoc ergo prompter hoc fallacies are not in fact, evidence), predicated instead wholly on mere speculation and even some prophecy, I thought I'd throw mine into the hat with you.

[anneboleyn]

59. "propter" -- studied Latin so I apologize for bringing it up but I see "prompter" and "eckcetra"

everywhere now, and it drives me crazy (especially the constant mispronunciation of et cetera-- it's the new "nucular&quot

[Thomas Hurt]

56. very high level planning....

not sure about that.......you are a retired rich white dude. You have a lot of money.

You go out buy the guns over weeks or months.
You stash them in suit cases
You get a room over the concert
You knock the window out
You start shooting in the crowd

[WinkyDink]

60. Puh-lease.

[HipChick]

61. O.J made him do it..