Movment for the Reasonable Regulation of Firearms,,,,,,

[Cryptoad]

Think of the carnage that would have taken place is the shooter had selected the Barret M82 rifle as his killing tool of choice.!

range 1 mi


https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/26/tennessees-new-official-state-rifle-is-so-powerful-it-can-destroy-commercial-aircraft/?utm_term=.3aa50741cd7c

Time Now for Reasonable Regulation of Firearms

if not,, it will only continue to get worst!

[Lars39]

1. Holy shit, how did I miss that!

#MeltThemDown

[pangaia]

2. Oh my! That IS a big one!

[Initech]

3. Fuck it, I'm all for infringing on gun rights now.

Sandy Hook should have been the last straw, but those fucking assholes stooped to the all time new low of justifying the murdering of children. And it's only got worse from there - Paris, Orlando, and now Vegas. It's time to actually fucking to stand up to the GOP and to kick the NRA in the balls! Same for that rat bastard Alex Jones. Enough is enough. Vegas really crossed a line.

[ClarendonDem]

5. What does Paris

Have to do with the NRA or American gun laws generally?

[Initech]

6. The Paris shooters got their guns in America.

Thanks to our extremely loose gun laws. So if it happened there it could happen anywhere.

[hack89]

9. Not really.

Only one pistol from America. The Balkans are where European terrorists are getting their weapons from.

Once European terrorists realized the strategic advantages of guns, they quickly discovered they were surprisingly easy to find. Just beyond the countries of Western Europe, with their restrictive gun laws, lie the Balkan states, awash with illegal weapons left over from the conflicts that raged there in the 1990s. According to the Switzerland-based Small Arms Survey, there are anywhere between three million and six million firearms in circulation in the Western Balkans—and possibly more.

Officials say the increase in foreign fighters returning from conflicts abroad—some 5,000 Europeans have joined ISIS and other jihadist groups in Iraq and Syria—is especially worrying considering the vast pool of weapons available in nearby Eastern Europe and North Africa, the detritus of past and current wars. “It’s a relatively new phenomenon, but there’s a growing number of people who have been trained to use automatic weapons, assault rifles and grenade launchers,” says Ivan Zverzhanovski, who heads the U.N. Development Program’s project in Belgrade to control small arms in southeastern and eastern Europe. “That will cross-fertilize in a way with the Balkans.”

For E.U. officials, the Paris and Copenhagen attacks this year have confirmed a suspicion that illegal weapons are flowing freely through Europe’s 26-country Schengen zone, which allows near frictionless travel across borders, and that European leaders are lagging behind in cracking down on the trade. “We have so many weapons in Paris,” Christophe Crépin, spokesman for France’s national police union, told TIME a few days after the Nov. 13 attacks. “There are links between organized crime and terrorists, and a route that goes from the Balkans.”

http://time.com/how-europes-terrorists-get-their-guns/

[hack89]

7. The Paris shooters got one pistol from the US

they got the assault rifles from the Balkans which are awash with weapons after decades of war.

[Hoyt]

16. Much like we are awash in the damn things from years of white wing supported

lax gun laws and racism.

[hack89]

18. You have to admit the Dems have not put up much of a fight

It does not appear to be an issue they want to embrace too closely.

[hack89]

4. It would have save a lot of lives if the shooter had one.

for one thing, you can't bump fire a Barret. Secondly the recoil is pretty heavy so it is nearly impossible to shoot fast and keep your gun on target - his rate of fire would have been much slower.


Barret's are nothing more than rich men's toys - expensive to buy, very expensive to shoot.

[Cryptoad]

8. I disagree,,,,,,

m82 50 cal projectiles is a killing machine,,,, 223 are not , they are designed to create wounded soldiers not kill them, one single M82 projectiles would be capable of killing multipal people in a crowd of over 20,000 shooter would not have to aim,,,, just point and shoot.

[hack89]

10. It hard to see that

for one thing, he was shooting downwards - if a bullet penetrated a person it would continue downwards into the ground. If he was firing horizontally then perhaps.

[Cryptoad]

11. ever seen a rock skip on water

after passing thru one body ,,,, that bullet likely to go anywhere....... u can hit a person in his hand and blow his arm off....

but what ever,,, we need reasonable firearm regulation!

[sarisataka]

14. Believe me I know from personal experience

A 50 cal round is not going to skip on lightweight things such as dirt, human bodies or engine blocks.

[Marengo]

22. That 5.56 was "designed to create wounded soldiers" is a persistent myth. No documentation...

Is known to exist which indicates a desire to adopt a cartridge intended primarily to wound. I recommend you cease mentioning that, it further erodes what little credibility you have on the issue.

[Cryptoad]

23. Seems u would know that

.223 ammo and 5.56 ammo are not the same ammo.

Funny that so many states outlaw deer hunting with .223 DIA ammo because it wounds without killing.

and the list goes on, and on, and on,,,


but someday i hope to be as smart as u are..........

[hack89]

24. Which .223 ammo? Which 5.56mm ammo?

for each caliber I can buy numerous combinations of bullets (weight and type) and powder. Even the military has gone through several iterations of 5.56 mm bullets.

The limit on hunting deer with a .223 is because, unlike war, a first shot kill is desired every time to minimize animal suffering. That does not not mean the .223 is not a very lethal round.

Neither round was designed to wound.

[Cryptoad]

25. U dont have to be a Rocket surgeon

not to argue that if u shot 600 people at 300 yds with a M82 , only 59 victims would be fatalities

[hack89]

26. And you don't have to be a rocket surgeon

to understand that shooting a M82 like an AR-15 is not possible. For one, you can't bump fire it so your rate of fire is slower. Secondly the recoil is massive so it takes more time to get the barrel back on target. Thirdly, it has a 10 round magazine so you are reloading a lot more.

This is a major distraction - can you actually show where .50 rifles have been used in mass shootings? Handguns are weapon of choice for mass shooters.

[Cryptoad]

27. Hah,,,, this GOP-Oligarch Vegas shooter

the first to be able to afford M82's .

Every mass murderer to their own poison, heh?

What every ur weapon of choice,,,Both weapons need reasonable regulation at the Federal level.

[hack89]

28. You don't too many shots at the prize

if you want to piss away opportunities to make real change than more power to you. Just makes it easier for the NRA.

[Cryptoad]

29. Fuck the NRA! How could it be any easier for the NRA??????????

[hack89]

30. By not focusing on the real threats?

The NRA would love to argue .50 cal rifles with you for the next several years instead of hand guns.

[Cryptoad]

33. u Better reread the thread,,,

My Op was about how it could have been worst that it was ,, and going to get worst the longer we go without Reasonable Federal Regulation of firearms I'm not the one wanting to argue which unregulated firearm is worst......

[hack89]

37. Your OP was misguided

which was my point.

[Marengo]

38. Why don't you produce some documentation that proves the .223/5.56 was designed specifically...

For low lethality in a military application?

[Marengo]

36. You aren't sufficiently knowledgeable for this debate. If you were, you would understand...

That .223 isn't designed specifically for low lethality either. If you were sufficiently knowledgeable, you would also know that many states DO allow .223 for hunting deer.

[Cryptoad]

39. Thats funny,,,, Comrade!

Reading is Fundamental.
Critical Reading is Critically Fundamental!

[Marengo]

40. Where's that documentation I asked for? Documentation indicating .223/5.56 NATO is designed...

Specifically for wounding and low lethality?

[Cryptoad]

43. If u had been around in Early 60's

u would know that Military wanted a gun that would create wounds like the AK47, since a the AK47 wounded had far more personnel requirements than those wounded by the ole m14 we were using on the battlefield. In other words those AK47 wounded were reducing numbers available to fight, and we were sucking hind teat. This is how the AR15 came to be, not because of killing attributes.

here is old 1962 Army report where they evaluated the new concept AR!% to m14 and AK47

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=ADA050268

here are some more reports on caring for the AK47 wounded on the battlefield , et al;

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjWiqiTneTWAhVK5CYKHdwtDG0QFgg4MAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmilitarymedicine.amsus.org%2Fdoi%2Fpdf%2F10.7205%2FMILMED-D-11-00305&usg=AOvVaw0Y0SbrOM5UGpzd1eXKYLa-

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjWiqiTneTWAhVK5CYKHdwtDG0QFgg9MAY&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmilitarymedicine.amsus.org%2Fdoi%2Fpdf%2F10.7205%2FMILMED.171.8.687&usg=AOvVaw2DHIRDcWp4XM4XlJN3EWrD

so read and see if u can learn anything,,,,, I know its hard to do when u know as much as u already do..... but this is my last time of being ur research monkey.....

bye

[Marengo]

44. Nope, try again. Nothing in that documentation supports your statement that the principle design

Concern for the .223/5.56 was low lethality. Simply nothing.

I read the Rifle Evaluation Study some years ago. Some salient points:

Page 2: "The ultimate material objective is a lightweight, multipurpose weapon, which fired from the shoulder, has the selective capability of either point or area fire with a high kill probability." Note the use of "kill" as opposed to wound or wounding.

Page B7: "In no way does the AK47 fulfill the individual weapons requirement as an individual weapon the the US Army infantryman."

One finds discussion of lethality throughout the entire document. Wounding potential, as a design element for the purpose of removing enemy personnel from the battlefield, is NOT stated as a primary consideration.

What was desired was a rifle capable of comparable rate and volume of fire, but with greater effective range and superior lethality.

[Marengo]

46. An attempt to fob me off with a doc dump which does not support your position, got anything else?

[Marengo]

41. You have failed to address the issue that .223 is legal for hunting deer in many states, including..

My home state of Utah, Arizona, and Idaho as examples. If the cartridge was designed for low lethality, how can this be?

[Lee-Lee]

47. They don't single that cartridge or alone

Rather it falls into a broad category based on size for states that set minimum cartridge sizes.

And those laws are typically 50-75+ years 9old and based on very old scientific data, when they were even based on data at all and not just someone's random idea of what is good enough and what isn't.

In some parts of NC only shotguns are allowed, it doesn't mean 30-06 isn't up to the job just because of the law.

In fact a friend of mine hunts deer and hogs exclusively with 223 and it does just fine.

The whole "designed to wound" thing is nothing but a long lasting urban legend.

[Takket]

12. clearly i need a weapon with a scope on a tripod to defend my home

[JoeStuckInOH]

13. ?? I don't think range was a problem at all. he was 360 yards away.

You know why gun control with any real traction ultimately always fails? Overreach. Because groups pushing for gun control stand on the tragedy like a soap box and push to ban items that are in no way related to the tragedy at hand. Or they try to lump things into the legislation and make it so inclusive of many items that it turns away too many yes votes.
"Oh, this is our chance... lets get everything we can!"

Happened after Newtown.
Happened after VA Tech.

And this article is a great example... Talking about banning unwieldy 30-pound Barrett rifles with 10 round magazines designed to shoot a mile, when the shooter used a rapid fire bump stock rifle with high capacity mags at 350yds.

[Angry Dragon]

15. good point

[maxsolomon]

31. really? you're worried about overreach?

didn't you notice? guns won.

at this point, even underreach is a pipe dream. bi-annual rampage massacres are the new normal.

[Paladin]

32. So sorry to disappoint you. We'll try to do better in the future. (nt)

[Angry Dragon]

17. tennessees-new-official-state-rifle-is-so-powerful-it-can-destroy-commercial-aircraft

It would work good from the top of my van

[BigmanPigman]

19. I have never even seen a gun and I am 55. I was shot at and heard the bullet though.

I was walking with a girlfriend on a fairly safe and moderately busy street in San Diego on a Sunday night at about 9PM about 30 years ago. We heard "whisssss" as the bullet went past our faces and shattered the glass door of a business 6 feet to my left. We turned and saw a pick up truck that kept going. We went to the closest club/bar to call the police and make a report and no one seemed concerned at all, as if it happens to everyone everyday.

My whole family is anti gun and we were raised that way. I never understood why someone would want to harm an animal or a person. I guess I am in the minority as usual.

[krispos42]

20. There are a multitude of cartridges he could have fired...

...which are significantly more powerful than the .223.

Bullet energy exists on a spectrum. There are literally hundreds of cartridges that have power between the .223 Rem and the.50 BMG.

I believe the death toll in America from a .50 BMG is still zero.

[Paladin]

34. Calls to mind the D.C. sniper shootings in 2002.

Back then, some of the livelier (charitable term) DU pro-gunners couldn't help themselves. They kept speculating about how many more bodies the shooters could have stacked up, if they'd been using a for-real sniper rifle, chambered for, say, a .308 cartridge. Instead of that wimpy-assed Bushmaster .223 they used. Really distasteful stuff.

I believe there's a compliment for you there, krispos42. You're welcome.

[Marengo]

21. Why didn't he? It seems he had the money to afford a Barret and plenty of .50 BMG ammo.

[ileus]

35. Much less...

A bolt action 50 caliber...
Shoot 3-5 times and reload.

[jmg257]

42. Imagine trying to carry 23 of those up to your hotel room.

Youch.

[Nevernose]

45. It hasnt happened yet

But don’t worry: it will. Some lunatic a mile away will assassinate someone important or butcher a bunch of people (individually or over time).

Then people will gunsplain that because you’re not more familiar with the _____, you’re not qualified and the point is moot.

There wasn’t “overreach” after Sandy Hook. There was an attempt to get universal background checks, which 90% of Americans support — and totally forgot about a month later. Mandatory registration, mandatory database, mandatory CDC/NIH-funded research into gun violence, and limits on magazine size. Those are not unrealistic goals.