Some Trumpers have apologized for their part. Have 3rd party or non-voters started apologizing yet?

[Madam45for2923]

Last edited Fri Oct 13, 2017, 10:32 AM - Edit history (1)

Do they care? Are they serious about their "values"

Have they recognized that they were duped. That they let themselves be played by fakers.

Anyone still listening to Susan Sarandon? She seems very proud of herself.

As I like to say at any chance I get:

Anyone who says that the 2 parties are the same is lying & has an agenda.

Anyone who said that the 2 parties are the same lied & had an agenda.

Remember that next time.


NOTE: If you care! If you want to be an ally! Start by showing good faith & apologize for your TRUMP vote.

If you thought you were in a safe State you still did plenty to poison the well. You made it OK to gamble with our well-being.

[Madam45for2923]

1. Anyone who says that the 2 parties are the same is lying & has an agenda.

Some Trumpers have apologized for their part. Have 3rd party or non-voters started apologizing yet?

Do they care? Are they serious about their "values"

Have they recognized that they were duped. That they let themselves be played by fakers.

Anyone still listening to Susan Sarandon? She seems very proud of herself.

As I like to say at any chance I get:

Anyone who says that the 2 parties are the same is lying & has an agenda.

Anyone who said that the 2 parties are the same lied & had an agenda.

Remember that next time.

[Madam45for2923]

2. In the meantime Donald is filling 100s of judges all throughout our dear nation.

[DFW]

62. More like Bannon, Sessions and McConnell are doing that

Last edited Sat Oct 14, 2017, 12:09 AM - Edit history (1)

Trump has no clue who any judges are. He just passes on the names given to him, and the Republican Senate rubber-stamps them.

[Madam45for2923]

69. Which HRC would have never done.

[DFW]

114. Nope

But as a jurist herself, she would have known and recognized qualified judges without the need to have them spoonfed to her.

[Madam45for2923]

116. The difference between night & day!

[Gothmog]

3. A vote for stein or Johnson was a vote for trump

[Madam45for2923]

4. Exactly, that is why am wondering if they have started apologizing for their vote for Trump.

or nah!

[HughBeaumont]

46. Please explain how a vote for Johnson was a vote for Trump.

Hillary was never getting a Johnson vote. The Libertarian party is more hard-right in some places than even Republicans. Johnson votes took Trump votes away.

[Madam45for2923]

47. A vote for anyone but HRC said to others this election could be gambled with.

[HughBeaumont]

48. That, again, assumes Johnson voters would have cast for Hillary. They wouldn't have.

In fact, were it not for Johnson votes, the Popular vote could very well have gone in TRUMP's favor.

Trust me when I say this - Hillary Clinton was never going to get a Johnson voter's vote. Libertarians are right-wing, not left. If more disgruntled Republicans cast for Johnson, we wouldn't even be talking about this right now.

This also assumes Hillary was entitled to EVERYone's vote. Is that the argument here?

[Madam45for2923]

49. No! it says we Americans were entitled to good governance.

[brer cat]

70. I know of two who have always voted Democratic

yet voted for Johnson in 2016. Few blanket statements are true, even if they are bolded.

[HughBeaumont]

82. How are abolishing taxation for a FairTax and gutting the social safety net Democratic tenets??

You put no value in blanket statements, I put no value in anecdotes.

The Libertarian Party remains right wing. Parts of their platform go even further hyper-right than even Republicans do. General Democratic voters will go for that? DOUBTFUL.

[Champion Jack]

83. bingo

[lapucelle]

85. ,,,

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-22/nearly-half-of-sanders-supporters-won-t-support-clinton

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/election-update-is-gary-johnson-taking-more-support-from-clinton-or-trump/

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/gary-johnson-swing-election-2016-president-214251

[HughBeaumont]

88. How could his support base tilt LEFT?

NOTHING ABOUT GARY JOHNSON BESIDES "Legal Weed" IS DEMOCRATIC. Just because a wingnut rag like The Federalist (who thinks every candidate is a statist) says he is don't make him so.

Are they just caring about "legalized pot" and not reading the REST of the Draconian Libertarian Party platform?? FairTax - HOW is that Democratic? Support of the TPP - Again, NOT Democratic. Getting rid of the DEA, gutting the social safety net ("gutting" as in "get rid of completely), abolishing Obamacare, making medical patients pay all expenses out of pocket - HOW are those Democratic values?

Opinionize all y'all want - anyone who votes Libertarian isn't a Democrat or a progressive to begin with.

And where did I bring up Bernie? Are you people STILL blaming him for Hillary losing to the WORST Presidential Candidate in history instead of looking in a mirror? You're mistaking "A national poll of likely voters" for "ALL Democratic voters". A smidgen isn't the rule. You're not entitled to people's votes. There were very clear things she did wrong and very clear outside influences that interfered with this election.

That being said . . . . you really need to stop blaming independents, libertarians and progressives in general for Hillary's loss. It's a false trail. It does nothing but divide us. Third parties are always going to exist. Face facts. The Republican absolutist mantra is killing us in national and state elections. There is no reason whatsoever to vote for Republicans in 2017, but millions and millions still do and millions and millions still don't LIKE us. You need to start figuring out how to win voters over. Stop saying "There's nothing wrong with our message or our methods" . . . because Republican victories by the truckload say otherwise!!

[stevenleser]

100. Youre incredulous at the idea people didnt behave logically?

There are people who used to be members of this site who left, joined another site and voted Trump. Is Trump a logical vote for anyone who was a 10+ year member here?

[lapucelle]

111. "Johnson votes took Trump votes away".

"Opinionize all y'all want - anyone who votes Libertarian isn't a Democrat or a progressive to begin with."

Wouldn't that mean that all those who voted for a progressive for the nomination and then switched over to Johnson for the general election were never progressives to begin with?

[metalbot]

143. That rather depends on the state

If you were a California voter and decided to make a protest vote, then your actions had absolutely no effect on this election.

[Demsrule86]

5. As far as I can tell, they are doubling down. The woman's convention is a great example.

They bypassed great Dem women in order to pick Sen. Sanders. Why would he be picked? Also, the primarying of Democrats...these folks don't care who they hurt, they just want to attack Democrats. If we don't get the house back, we really are screwed...we could have a chance at the Senate...if we weren't stupidly primarying senators like Joe Manchin and Dianne Feinstein...using resources to go after GOP Senate seats...and of course starving the DNC and then complaining that they don't do enough to elect whoever the flavor of the month is. The usual suspects...they costs us the election in 2000 and 2016...still at it.

[coolsandy]

43. That's what I take from the Women's March convention.

[Demsrule86]

66. Yes, and those who thought much like this cost us a number of elections in the late 60's and 70's.

And of course the big one ...1980.

[HopeAgain]

6. I don't want an apology from anyone, I want their vote

Frankly pointing the finger isn't going to accomplish that. Growing our base will. Let's figure out how to get more votes rather than just throwing shade.

[Madam45for2923]

8. I disagree! We will have to agree to disagree. Apologies are always important for TRUST & UNITY!

[Kentonio]

18. We don't need to trust and feel unity with every person who votes for us, we just need their votes.

We're selling a vision of the countries future, not forming a youth club.

[Madam45for2923]

20. In other years past. But this was no ordinary year. People dropped the ball. DO THEY EVEN CARE?

[Kentonio]

26. I don't mean to sound rude, but who cares?

As a political party the responsibility is always on US to earn people's votes. If we fail to do that, then no matter how much we think the public were wrong, or stupid, or deluded, or bad, its still our own fault for not putting forward a more convincing vision than the other side did.

Obviously when the table is rigged it makes that job harder, and sometimes even impossible (as many great young politicians quickly discover when they run against rich, connected incumbents), but at the national level we simply havent been doing enough to pull in enough voters in the right places.

Any time the finger starts being pointed at the voters, its a clear sign that we're not learning from our mistakes. All it ever achieves is further alienation, and makes our job even harder.

Politics is marketing. Our product is a better, fairer, more equal country. You might hate the marketing side, but without it your product will never end up in the hands of Americans.

[Madam45for2923]

29. This is more than political parties. The general election was a REFERENDUM on DECENCY.

If people did not realize or care, they dropped the ball.

[Kentonio]

37. Think of it from the other perspective

Our marketing must have really dropped the ball if we couldn't convince the American public that what we were offering was better than what that monster was. Obviously there are many, many reasons for that, and a lot of them are unfair and corrupt, but its still a damning indictment of our efforts that we couldn't win against him, no matter what hurdles were placed in our way.

The only other option is that the America people are just bad, and I don't accept that in a country that very recently elected Obama.

[Madam45for2923]

39. I think since I also want to see the best in people I know the apologies are forthcoming.

If people cared they'd feel responsible for aiding the situation we are in!

[lunamagica]

57. Who cares? The people for whom the '18 and '20 elections won't matter, because I'll be too late

for them. The people who will die, because some voted for trump, and other's voted for stein and others didn't vote because the two major parties "were the same". Their "purity" will cost lives.

And those who will pay the price, they care

[adigal]

92. For pete's sake, keep up this divisive nonsense, and I will point the finger at YOU when we lose in

2018. Do you understand that we MUST all come together, even if we don't agree with them or are angry with them?? Our lives may depend on this. Literally.

[Madam45for2923]

93. I appreciate your sincere & well meaning calls for UNITY! I do!

[mcar]

95. I'm all for coming together

And voting for Democrats! And supporting Democrats!

[adigal]

106. If Bernie runs as a Dem and wins, we all need to support him

Same thing with Biden, or anyone else who runs as our Dem candidate.

In 2018, we need to register people and GOTV. Or we won't have a 2020 vote.

[mcar]

113. I always support the Democratic nominee

That's the entire point.

[adigal]

119. Yes, me too. I would hate to see us do to Bernie what others did to Hillary. nt

[BigmanPigman]

7. I know someone who voted for Bernie to make a point

and she defends that her decision with, "I thought Hillary would win". I am really pissed off at her though. I am sure a lot of people did the same thing for the same reason.

[Madam45for2923]

9. Does that person care enough to feel bad about her choice. Has she seen ANY LIGHT?

[BigmanPigman]

56. She defends her actions by saying that she thought Hillary

would win so she doesn't really feel badly or guilty. I haven't spoken with her since I found out. I hold her responsible for this shit that we are in.

[stevenleser]

103. A long time member here was recently PPRd for that very thing

It came out from a post elsewhere and they were unapologetic about it despite what Trump has been like.

[BigmanPigman]

107. What is PPR?

[stevenleser]

110. Posting Privileges Revoked. I.e., banned

[BigmanPigman]

112. Oh, I didn't know that could happen.

[The Genealogist]

10. "She seems very proud of herself" Smug and self-righteous is more like it

Millions suffer and will continue to, at least part due to her both-sidism. She'll not suffer for it in her cozy cocoon of wealth and fame, of course.

[Madam45for2923]

11. This is how we know she did not really really care or meant well.

[meadowlark5]

12. I know bernie or buster who lives in a red state

He voted for Stein. He feels perfectly fine with his vote because he knows any vote not for a republican means nothing for the state electoral votes anyway. Solid red state. But if it were a swing state, I doubt he would have voted for Clinton. He hates them all the way back to Bill.

But man oh man, do I see him daily slamming Trump on FB though I know he played his part with the Clinton hate train during the campaign. He would never admit he was duped. He's a self professed political junkie and no way would Russian propaganda have influenced his decision

[Madam45for2923]

13. People who thought their votes did not matter did enough to make it ok to not vote for HRC

So not off the hook.

[Madam45for2923]

14. If you care! If you want to be an ally! Start by showing good faith & apologize for your TRUMP vote

[fescuerescue]

15. Does it matter?

I suppose it makes my ego feel a little better if someone apologizes to someone else for their vote, but it doesn't really matter.

Those kind of sentiments are valuable as chat board postings.

All that matters if how people voted on election day.

[Madam45for2923]

16. YES! To show good faith and that they are an ally, yep it does. If Trumpers can apologize.....

why would this be different for other complicit parties to do so.

[fescuerescue]

21. Sure

But what does that Good faith buy?

If I could entice all of Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Ohio to all apologize for voting the wrong way, I would go to bed feeling really good.

But the next morning Trump would still be President, and we would all be in the exact same place we are now, and writing about the same things we are writing about now.

[Madam45for2923]

24. Good faith shows that the person cares, means well, & not posited to stab in the back when they are

needed next time!

[MuseRider]

17. Why do you need this?

Everyone has a vote that they do not have to explain or even tell you about. What do you want? Do you truly want a Democracy where your vote is yours or not?

If they don't feel bad about it what are you going to do?

If they do feel bad about it what are you going to do?

Who cares what anyone else thinks about their vote?

[Kentonio]

19. This x1000

Seriously, the idea of asking voters to apologize for their votes. The mind boggles..

[Madam45for2923]

23. Really don't care if others agree with me. This is my opinion. To me it shows they realize & care

about what happened on their watch.

[MuseRider]

31. This smacks of authoritarianism.

Not your opinion about it all but your wish to demand people apologize to you before you will think well of them.

Really, their vote is none of your business.

I am not angry and I realize this may sound angry but it is none of my business and none of yours how anyone else votes. Do you really need club cards before you can work with someone?

[Madam45for2923]

36. WTH! This is about decency & trust. Everyone's vote was important on election day Nov 2016.

[Glamrock]

133. You're probably better off posting this on Facebook.

I seriously doubt that there's more than a few, if any, here that this would apply to.

[Madam45for2923]

135. No way! Not a Facebook consumer. Zuckerman dropped the ball. EFF him!

Thanks for your response though. I know you meant well.

Arazi
122. Nope, they don't owe you shit. We need to win their vote
View profile
That's our job, not shaming or blaming. We need their vote and it won't be done by demanding an apology or castigating people

Every ally we can get will be critical to overcome gerrymandering, Russian influence, election fraud etc

Get out and work for their vote, one by one. That's how it's done

[Madam45for2923]

22. It shows they care. To me that's important. If not they are not a truthful & well meaning ally.

[MuseRider]

27. I doubt they care what anyone thinks.

If you don't know who they voted for do they go in a box labeled "Hmmmm, not sure about this one." ? That is going to be one big box.

Most people I know vote on issues not on party lines. Ya gonna throw them out because they might have not wanted to vote for President because they thought both candidates were losers? Was that the right thing for them to do? Obviously most of us do not think so but was it the right thing to do? It is their vote, they are allowed to do what they want with it.

Are you going to throw them all out of your little club if they tell you that?

Seriously, this is really stupid.

[Madam45for2923]

32. I care that they don't care. Very telling. Besides I promise you apologies are forthcoming.

[MuseRider]

59. Good.

Anyone who would suggest that someone apologize for their vote because it was not like theirs deserves to apologize.

[SMC22307]

126. Exactly.

Hell, I'm only half-way through this snowflakish OP and want an apology for the headache it's causing.

Apologies for everyone!

[MuseRider]

134. LOL.

There is another around somewhere. You might as well dive in all the way. Be prepared to be carded before long.

[Jakes Progress]

42. Common decency.

Last edited Fri Oct 13, 2017, 03:18 PM - Edit history (1)

Every one has a right to eat. If I grab two sandwiches from the tray and leave someone else without a meal, I not only need to apologize. I need to make amends.

The apology shows that they are less likely to do something stupid or selfish like that again.

[MuseRider]

58. Out votes are ours and not to share

unless WE decide to share them. It is not the same. I see and understand what you all are saying but people are all different, as you know. To expect everyone to do as you do and if not you can castigate them is simply acting like an overbearing parent to grown adults. People, grown-ups do not have to comply.

Votes and sandwiches are two different things entirely.

I sincerely doubt anyone with any sense and do feel badly, who actually made the choice to vote differently than you did will feel like they owe you anything. They may very well feel badly but they do not owe you one damned thing, not even an apology because their vote is theirs. In fact they do not owe you or me or anyone else even an explanation and to keep treating them like idiots, no matter how idiotic they were to vote that way, is to chase them further away. I would find it hard to even stomach this party if the actual party was asking for this.

[Jakes Progress]

68. It's not about owing.

Last edited Fri Oct 13, 2017, 11:13 PM - Edit history (1)

It's about personal responsibility. It is to show that they understand that they were duped and will not be so gullible next time.

And I must disagree with the last part of your post. Those who voted in ways that is harming millions do owe. They owe an apology to the Dreamers, to Puerto Rico, to the LBGTQ community. They owe it to the children and grandchildren who will grow up in a diminished America with debased parklands, more befouled environment, and the greater threat of nuclear devastation. Yes. When someone wrongs other people, they owe.

[Madam45for2923]

71. A.M.E.N.

[stevenleser]

115. And let's hope the owing doesn't get exponentially greater because it might

Those who voted in ways that enabled Trump may ultimately have horrific events in Iran or North Korea on their tab.

[lunamagica]

60. This

[SMC22307]

125. I doubt it shows that. I had strained relations w/ a number of friends and coworkers...

during the Bush reign of terror, only to have them eventually tell me that I was right all along. Did they learn or feel the need to apologize? Hell no. As soon as Sarah Palin burst on the scene, they rallied behind her. These candidates match their belief system, and it doesn't matter what package they come in: Drumpf, Carson, Rubio, Cruz, etc.

[Madam45for2923]

25. I promise the doubters here, that apologies will happen.

[Not Ruth]

28. The reason to teach kids to apologize isn't to make the wrong-doer feel better.

The reason to teach kids to apologize isn't to make the wrong-doer feel better. It's to make the person wronged feel better. ... Rather than coercing apology, he says, it would be better to create a loving environment, where the children feel safe and confident enough to apologize.Apr 3, 2013 The Atlantic

[Madam45for2923]

33. Third party voters & non voters dropped the ball in most consequential election in their lives

[stevenleser]

121. Were not dealing with children so that all doesnt apply

Although it is interesting that you would try to use children as analogies to describe Democrats and Progressives who voted either Johnson, Stein or Trump.

The rationalizations they used were definitely not adult rationalizations. The lunatic who shot the Republican Congress folks at the softball game had crap on their social media pages that said something along the lines of “If everyone who believes inX votes Stein we will win!” And they clearly believed that would happen.

Again that is the belief and rationalization of a child, not an adult. And that is only one example.

[NastyRiffraff]

30. They will NEVER apologize

because they think they were right. Susan Sarandon was a 3rd party voter who "did not vote with her vagina" and who called Hillary Clinton "more dangerous" than Trump. This is the typical mindset of those voters. Some of them are actually GLAD that Dump is fucking up so badly...that'll show the Clinton supporters!

Bastards.

[Me.]

34. That Is It Exactly

They cannot be trusted

[Madam45for2923]

35. This is good to know. I will never trust people who did not care enough on Nov of 2016.

[Madam45for2923]

38. BRB!

[George II]

40. Very well said - thanks! And....

Welcome back.

[Madam45for2923]

44. Thanks George!

[Jakes Progress]

41. But, but, they read on facebook

that Hillary was nasty. Who are you going to believe? History and reality or an anonymous story probably cooked up in Odessa. Can't apologize. That story from the internets was so juicy.

[Madam45for2923]

45. Yeah, apologizing is hard! Shows character, maturity, self-reflection, responsibility and caring.

[Lil Missy]

50. inappropriate. No one has to publicly apologize for their vote. They either are or they aren't

regretting their vote. Public shaming is not appropriate.

[Madam45for2923]

52. Inappropriate??? I hate that word. It was used in the 1990's a lot to put down HRC.

Thank you but I refuse. Take back your word. No thank siree!

Lil Missy
50. inappropriate. No one has to publicly apologize for their vote. They either are or they aren't
View profile
regretting their vote. Public shaming is not appropriate.

[louis c]

54. Votes are private but politics are public

If you want your opinion to be taken seriously, then tell us how you voted and if you changed your mind.

If not, please keep your vote and your opinions to yourself, as they carry no credibility.

I know you voted for Hilary and so did I. We both know what a "binary choice" is and the consequences of not choosing the right side of the choice.

I made this mistake in my lifetime. I did not support Hubert Humphrey in 1968. I learned the lesson of a "binary choice" the hard way, at a young age. I saw it happen in 2000, and again last year.

Every time Democrats think it doesn't matter which way we vote in a GE, we get fucked.

Every generation or so, we learn our lesson the hard way. All the OP wants to know, is have the voters who voted 3rd party, sat out or wrote in learned their lesson. If they haven't, their opinion in useless to me.

[Madam45for2923]

72. Yes, if they want their opinion to matter to me, I want to know that they care.

and realize how many were fucked b/c of the ramifications of this election.

[louis c]

76. Then we agree

Here's how I voted my whole life in GE (I was born in 1952, but was politically active at 16 YO, hence the Humphrey reference in my previous post)

McGovern (1972)
Carter (1976)
Carter (1980)
Mondale (1984)
Dukakis (1988)

Perot (1992) This needs some explaining. I'm a union guy and that whole election cycle was about NAFTA. That was the issue I voted on. I admit that that could have turned out to be a mistake, but Perot actually was ahead as late as June. He actually did have a chance, even though he finished with just 20%. I never thought that was a wasted vote.

Clinton (1996)
Gore (2000)
Kerry (2004)
Obama (2008)
Obama (2012)
Hilary (2016)

[Madam45for2923]

81. Our votes are mostly the same since I started voting in 1988, DEMS all the way!

[joshcryer]

51. Yes, there have been regretful Stein supporters.

[ClarendonDem]

53. I hope that enough people realize that they made a mistake

Last edited Fri Oct 13, 2017, 08:27 PM - Edit history (1)

Not voting for HRC in 2016, and that they don't make the same mistake in 2020. If they do realize that, and Trump is voted out of office in 2020, I don't really care if anyone apologizes for their vote in 2016. Won't change the outcome of this past election.

[KPN]

55. Good grief! Apologies aren't what's needed.

What's needed is votes. We need to do a better job gaining peoples' confidence and support. Demanding an apology and/or blaming is pointless. Working to change things, including what people think about our party, is better. But you can only do that if you understand and give merit to their grievances. I think we as a party are beginning to and can do that. We can win this thing back -- but we need all of us.

[lunamagica]

61. K&R. Thank you!

[Eliot Rosewater]

63. Good question and points.

I would say more, ALL of it supportive of actual Democrats, and the actual Democratic party, but I dont dare.

[MineralMan]

64. No, and many probably won't. The question is really

what people will do the next chance they have to vote. I hope the lessons learned since November, 2016 have been well-learned. We'll get another chance, if Trump doesn't blow everything up. What we do with that chance will determine whether we recover or continue to go into the toilet.

I have no idea, at this point, what will happen. At age 72, I only have a few more chances to make my wishes known at the polling place. How many I have no idea.

I hope to leave this world on an upward trend, a progressive trend. I hope I don't go while watching this country descend into a morass of intolerance and uncaring.

I hope people have learned and will join together to move things forward. If not, I will regret that we did not do that.

[Madam45for2923]

73. I hope all of this for you and me!!!!!

MM we are in this together. Thank you for caring.

[MineralMan]

74. We are in this together. I hope more people join us in that.

[Madam45for2923]

75. I love the fact that many people like you out there mean well. This is lovely to know.

This makes each of us stronger. This is LIFE GIVING!

I go forth knowing that real human beings all over the nation got my back.

Because you seem to be an avatar here but I know a warm person (in all its meanings) is on the other side.

I know I am not alone in feeling this.

[briv1016]

65. I imagine if they weren't a vocal Trumper they'll just claim they voted for Hillary.

It'd be near impossible to prove otherwise.

[Madam45for2923]

67. Yes, but some went on the record to say publicly they were voting 3rd party or not voting.

[elehhhhna]

77. This is just divisive venom

[Madam45for2923]

78. We will have to agree to disagree. won't we? LOL! I do appreciate you are so big on unity!

elehhhhna
77. This is just divisive venom

[elehhhhna]

79. LOL? How is this funny?

[Madam45for2923]

80. Again I do appreciate your sincere UNITY ideals.

elehhhhna
79. LOL? How is this funny?

[BainsBane]

131. Your conception of who you demand unity with

though I myself don't find it amusing in the least but rather revealing.

[Champion Jack]

84. agreed

[Mariana]

86. Really.

Why isn't all this rage being directed at Trump voters? By and large, they still support him and would enthusiastically vote for him again. They're the ones who put him in office, and they should not be deprived of the credit.

[HughBeaumont]

90. You know, it's just easier to blame everyone else instead of looking in a mirror.

Ultimately (outside interference from Russia aside), the ones at fault for Trump are:

* Trump voters.
* The people who sat out November 8th.

That's who's at fault for Trump - the ones who thought "President Donald Trump" would be a great idea.

Still find it weird that he won four swing states by 1% or less. TOO uncanny.

[BainsBane]

138. They ARE Trump voters

How do you not get that?

[Mariana]

146. I don't get it because it's not true.

Trump voters voted for Trump. Hillary voters voted for Hillary. Third party voters voted for third party candidates. Nonvoters didn't vote for anyone. Someone who stayed home did not for Trump, it is an impossibility and it's dishonest to say they did. A third party voter voted against Trump, by definition. It is dishonest to say they voted for him.

Anyway, even if you assume their votes would have gone to Hillary if they had done otherwise, why are they more deserving of scorn than the tens of millions of actual, real life Trump voters? You know, the ones who voted for him on purpose? Why?

[BainsBane]

148. It doesn't have anything to do with assuming their votes would have gone to Hillary

In voting third party, they chose to relinquish their vote to the winner. Trump won.
However, in many cases they explicitly voted for Stein out of resentment about the primary and animosity toward Clinton. They pretend to have been Democrats but claim they just couldn't vote for Hillary for a whole litany of bullshit reasons unrelated to issues or policy. Not only they, they actively argued that she was worse than Trump--which means they chose Trump.

The reason I believe they are more deserving of scorn is because Trump voters thought they were making the best choice. They believed Trump would help their lives in some way. The fascist collaboration knew that Trump was bad, but they choose to allow him to become president out of anger and ego. Some of them purposefully intended to punish the poor and the marginalized for refusing to acquiesce to their demands in the primary. I saw those arguments on JPR. I literally saw people argue they were now opposed to LGBT rights, women's rights and civil rights because those voters supported Hillary. They claimed their anger was that the Democrats didn't support "equality." That is literally the word they use, Equality meaning more for them and less for everyone else. It's naked self interest, racism and misogyny. Of course they preferred Trump, which is why they continue to defend him.

[MuseRider]

87. The good thing is that no matter how much

they want to punish people they don't get to unless someone wants to tell them how they vote. Even then it is none of their GD business to punish someone for what their conscience told them to do at that time. They will learn the lessons on their own like we did back before there were Internet possies.

This entire thread is based on the assumption that they are the best EVER and they get to know how you voted and then judge the hell out of you until you get on your knees and beg forgiveness so you can be part of the club.

Democracy dies in so many ways but nobody gets to do what this entire thread is about.

[Madam45for2923]

91. Last November's election was very clear. And it should be clearer every day. Everyone KNEW BETTER

NOT just me. So I don't accept your logic per se. Democracy dies quickly when people allow Racists Dictators.



MuseRider
87. The good thing is that no matter how much
View profile
they want to punish people they don't get to unless someone wants to tell them how they vote. Even then it is none of their GD business to punish someone for what their conscience told them to do at that time. They will learn the lessons on their own like we did back before there were Internet possies.

This entire thread is based on the assumption that they are the best EVER and they get to know how you voted and then judge the hell out of you until you get on your knees and beg forgiveness so you can be part of the club.

Democracy dies in so many ways but nobody gets to do what this entire thread is about.

[MuseRider]

105. Of course it was clear

I am not disagreeing that their votes caused calamity but what I am saying is that YOU nor anyone else gets to hear how they voted or a reason unless they want to come out with it. You do not get to demand it. That goes against much of what this country stands for.

I am a grown up, I am assuming you are too (?). I prefer to be treated as one and not demanded by others to prove something that is frankly none of their business. What don't you get about the fact that you do not have the power to do this and you should not be demanding others beg your forgiveness. Not unless you intend to do the same for them. They perhaps think things are going swimmingly and want to know why the hell did you not fall in line.

I agree this country was taken down by stupid people. I heard enough, "I would NEVER vote for her you can peel my skin off and I would never vote for her." Much could have been done about that but wasn't and then you have to add all the other very unfair things that happened and we KNEW much of that was going to happen (maybe not the Russian stuff). None of that matters to what you are saying. You STILL DO NOT GET TO find out how others voted and then treat them like miscreant children just because they did not do what you wanted them to do. They have the right to stay quiet and hidden from this kind of treatment.

I am done with this. I have a Bernie avatar so I am certain I am suspect in your eyes, I can and will live with that and not shed one tear or drop of sweat. I will never, not in one million years tell you or anyone else how I voted. This is all so childish. Nobody owes you that.

[Madam45for2923]

109. I block everyone's avatars and bylines. Makes downloading pages faster.

[stevenleser]

108. Nope, its not. This is the second election in the last five where this happened

It’s no longer a “move on” kind of issue.

It requires regularly throwing Trump in the face of those who enabled him until they acknowledge their mistake.

[SMC22307]

127. It's naive, goofy, snowflake territory with a twist of authoritarianism.

Expect that someone apologize for their vote?

[BainsBane]

129. Divisive toward the Trump coalition

Indeed. This, however, is a site for Democrats, not Trumpers, fascists, and the Vichy collaboration. There are no shortage of sites that seek unity around the white nationalist agenda. That is not the purpose of this site.

[Jamaal510]

89. If there are

some 3rd party/non-voters who have apologized, I haven't heard of any yet. If I had to guess, most of them haven't learned a thing. They're that self-righteous that instead of questioning whether they should continue to support perennial losers with lofty promises, shaky agendas, and no foundations for their parties on local and state levels, they'd rather continue down their current path because, you know...a former Secretary of State/Senator who advocated expanded health care and a higher minimum wage was as unbearable as a draft-dodging perverted racist Twitter Warrior. If anything, they're probably expecting Democrats to apologize for Dolt 45 even though his margin of victory in a few key states was small, and even though HC did do plenty of campaigning in those states.

[mcar]

94. They will never apologize

It's why I fear for future elections. The Sarandon types are secure in their moral righteousness, no matter what.

[mcar]

96. If we are to take things back

It's up to those 3rd party voters to realize they made a mistake and join us to move forward. I don't get the school of thought that Democrats need to kowtow to them. It's nreally the other way around.

[Madam45for2923]

97. In the meantime my OP is being called divisive & authoritarian. WTH?

[mcar]

98. Makes no sense

If people want change, or at least to get back to some semblance of sanity, they need to vote for the party that has the best chance of doing that. Anything else is immature and destructive.

[Eliot Rosewater]

102. The actions of last year, which I am not allowed to mention, are why Americans are dying

in PR and will die by the tens of thousands next year when ACA is destroyed.

And I am still not allowed to say why this is happening. NOt sure how much longer I can stand that.

[Madam45for2923]

118. Yes! We know what we know.

[Blue_Tires]

99. I've been waiting, not the first mea culpa yet...

And that goes double for the liberal bloggers/writers/pundits who carried water for Donnie all last year and now want to pretend they had nothing to do with it....

[Madam45for2923]

101. Exactly. If they really cared about all that was released on election day with Donald

we should have started hearing about some apologizing or something to that effect.

[stevenleser]

104. Yep. nt

[Madam45for2923]

117. Kicking!

[nolabels]

120. When you find the car salesman lied to you somewhat (if you let him) then does that give.......

you the right to void the sale?

I find myself wondering about the people who think they are always correct. Sometimes watching them when they find out they were wrong here or there I just wonder if they learned anything.

[Madam45for2923]

124. and would they do differently if given a second chance? especially now that we know how the story

enfolds...

[nolabels]

145. That's where chance and free choice take over

There is little of it to be sure because we are mostly creatures of habit and instinct. We run in herds and we often only question after some type of pain or loss is involved. We all mostly have been conditioned by civilization and society to do that repetitive movement and act. Telling someone they are wrong for one reason only leads to more debate and not much changing.

This website came to being because of the stolen election in 2000 and not much has changed except that some of us are wiser, so go figure

[Arazi]

122. Nope, they don't owe you shit. We need to win their vote

That's our job, not shaming or blaming. We need their vote and it won't be done by demanding an apology or castigating people

Every ally we can get will be critical to overcome gerrymandering, Russian influence, election fraud etc

Get out and work for their vote, one by one. That's how it's done

[Madam45for2923]

123. I disagree. We don't need racist-dictators enablers 3rd party voters, Thank you v much!

Allies that don't take their ally-dom or ally-ship with us seriously & don't give AF when confronted with a Hitler wannabe and don't recognize what they helped release on all of us. Ah, no! We will find better allies.

Glad that you are such a sincere UNITER though. Good on ya!


Arazi
122. Nope, they don't owe you shit. We need to win their vote
View profile
That's our job, not shaming or blaming. We need their vote and it won't be done by demanding an apology or castigating people

Every ally we can get will be critical to overcome gerrymandering, Russian influence, election fraud etc

Get out and work for their vote, one by one. That's how it's done

[elehhhhna]

137. Wow.

[Madam45for2923]

139. You awesome big sincere uniter you! wow to you too!

AM A FAN!

137. Wow.

[elehhhhna]

142. So edgy

[Madam45for2923]

144. Weeh! and you so crispy! WE GOT EACH OTHER FER SURE!

Here looking at you babe! winky winky

elehhhhna
142. So edgy

[SMC22307]

132. "Get out and work for their vote, one by one. That's how it's done."

Nah, it's easier to fuck around online demanding apologies. God help us in 2018 and beyond...

[BainsBane]

136. They aren't critical of any of that

They explicitly deny it. We see countless denials of Russian interference, defenses of Trump, and claim the whole controversy is sour grapes because Clinton couldn't close the deal. Their hatred for Hillary, the poor, women, and people of color far outpaces any desire to see Democrats elected. In fact, that is precisely why they despise the Democratic Party. They instead support a White Nationalist agenda, even if they refuse to identity it as such. They make excuses for the Nazis and insist their is nothing new about a president serving as an apologist and supporter of white nationalists.

Certainly get-out-the vote activities don't involve blaming or interrogation about past voting, but that isn't what this site does. It's purpose is to promote Democrats, not Trump enablers.

Besides, at this point there are far graver concerns than the next election. Now we can only hope, or pray if so inclined, that John Kelly and Mattis can keep Trump's itchy trigger figure off the nuclear football. If not, chances are good there won't be any elections to worry about. But that's not the fault of Trump and third-party voters who chose to put the madman in office. The Democrats went and ran a woman, immediately after the horror of a black man in the Oval Office. Now the world has to pay for it with millions of lives. And what do those lives matter compared to the egos of the self-entitled?

[BainsBane]

128. Hear, hear!

Some may regret their choices, but others are intent on doubling down and repeating their past behavior. It's clear to me that they want far right wing, fascist power, only they don't have the courage to admit it. They are fundamentally narcissists, who are incapable of thinking about anything but their own ego. That others suffer and even die is of no consequence to them. They may even enjoy the suffering. Remember that most of them think the Democratic Party no longer represents 'working people," meaning white men. They hate women and people of color, and want to see them punished. They make excuses for the Nazis and insist they are nothing new. People have already died because of their efforts to put Trump in office, and they don't care. Those lives are inconsequential compared to their egos and their demands for wealth and privileged.

Hitler depended on people like them to rise and remain in power. That crowed is no different. We are poised on the edge of nuclear annihilation, and their goal is to ensure that the Democrats stay out of office. They want Trump because he is as hateful and narcissistic as they are, and if he succeeds in killing their enemies--the poor, marginalized, Democrats--all the better. Millions could die in the Korean peninsula, throughout the East and even in California, and they would be complaining about Hillary as a supposed stooge of Goldman Sachs and that the 2016 primary was "rigged."

[Madam45for2923]

130. I am afraid you are right! Which is why I posted my OP & my question. Sadly hear! hear! to u 2.

Incredible the people that don't get my question and want to weaponize the idea of UNITY against us.

3 rd party voters & non-voters dropped the fucking nuke-ball on the whole world & future generations to come.

Heck our earth as in this big-ball made of soil & clay was also on the ballot.

They decided to gamble it all instead.

[G_j]

140. I have an innate distrust for people who

demand apologies from strangers. Would you also punish them if you could? If you think that is working for unity and the overall good, I have to question your reasoning.

[Madam45for2923]

141. Am afraid we gots to agree to disagree. Sincere Unifier you! MUCHO APPRECIATION.

Living LA VIDA UNITED, EH?

G_j
140. I have an innate distrust for people who
View profile
demand apologies from strangers. Would you also punish them if you could? If you think that is working for unity and the overall good, I have to question your reasoning.

[louis c]

147. I agree. K&R. (NT)

[revmclaren]

149. K & R.....