Yup, it had to happen, regarding the california fires.

[Archae]

Back in 1871, the Great Chicago Fire occurred, and Bible-thumpers called it the "preview of the endtimes."
(There was a far worse fire north of Chicago, in Peshtigo, but due to the remoteness at that time, not much got out.)

Sure enough.
A TV preacher (I have no idea who, I changed the channel right away,) said the California fires are the "preview of the endtimes."

Christianity nowadays is dominated by the gospels of greed, hatred, hysterical fear, and lies.

And people wonder why I simply dumped the whole mess.

[Eliot Rosewater]

1. Fires are the direct result of climate change and the lack of action on the part

Last edited Sun Oct 15, 2017, 12:29 PM - Edit history (2)

of many people and govts and as of today the GOP has said they want to have MORE fires.

Just to clarify, the fire itself starts for whatever reason, the Spreading of the fire, which this time was with unheard of speed and devastation, is where climate change and drought comes in to play.

These fires likely occurred due to wind knocking down power lines, which then sparked fires that could spread the way they did because of the drought.

[former9thward]

6. Wild Fires have been going on forever climate change or no climate change.

They are a result of lightning, poor forest management and humans deliberately or accidentally starting fires. They are also a direct result of people continuing to build in previously forested areas.

[Eliot Rosewater]

7. No, not at all. These fires spread so quickly because of many years of drought

Nobody who does fires has seen anything like this because this is a result of climate change causing year after year of drought.

Drought, to the degree we have seen lately, is caused by climate change.

I wont respond to you again so if you dont respond that is fine with me.

[eppur_se_muova]

2. re Peshtigo ...

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/542307.Firestorm_at_Peshtigo

It's quite a read. Perfect combination of natural disaster and man-made disruptions of Nature led to a huge catastrophe.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. The interesting thing is that pretty much all religions have some concept of "end times."

Islam's "end times" concept is similar to the Christian one.

Sunnis believe that the dead will then stand in a grand assembly, awaiting a scroll detailing their righteous deeds, sinful acts and ultimate judgment. Muhammad will be the first to be resurrected. Punishments will include adhab, or severe pain and embarrassment, and khizy or shame. There will also be a punishment of the grave between death and the resurrection.

In Norse mythology it's Ragnarök, the Twilight of the Gods, which is pretty spectacular:

It will be heralded by a devastation known as Fimbulvetr which will seize Midgard in cold and darkness. The sun and moon will disappear from the sky, and poison will fill the air. Dead will rise from the ground and there will be widespread despair. There follows a battle between... the Gods with the Æsir, Vanir and Einherjar, led by Odin, and... forces of Chaos, including the fire giants and jötunn, led by Loki. Thor...will defeat the serpent, only to take nine steps afterwards before collapsing to his own death.

After this people will flee their homes as the sun blackens and the earth sinks into the sea. The stars will vanish, steam will rise, and flames will touch the heavens. This conflict will result in the deaths of most of the major Gods and forces of Chaos. Finally, Surtr will fling fire across the nine worlds. The ocean will then completely submerge Midgard. After the cataclysm the world will resurface new and fertile, and the surviving Gods will meet. The two human survivors, Líf and Lífþrasir, will then repopulate this new earth.

In Hinduism there's a cyclic rising and collapse:

In Hindu eschatology, time is cyclic and consists of kalpas. Each lasts 4.1 – 8.2 billion years, which is a period of one full day and night for Brahma, who will be alive for 311 trillion, 40 billion years. Within a kalpa there are periods of creation, preservation and decline. After this larger cycle, all of creation will contract to a singularity and then again will expand from that single point, as the ages continue in a religious fractal pattern.

Maybe there's some universal notion that when things seem to be totally fucked up the world will explode or collapse or something, and either everybody gets raptured or the whole thing starts all over again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_time#Norse_religion

[Mariana]

4. But things have always seemed to be totally fucked up.

Because they were, of course - history is like that. Maybe that's why most religions have the concept. Bad shit is always going on everywhere, so the end times are always thought to be right around the corner.

[anneboleyn]

8. no - evangelical notion of "the rapture" etc was a 19th century fad. Not Catholic. Hindu thought is

actually very profound on the age and nature of the universe -- it is billions of years old in Hindu belief, and follows a cyclical pattern as you noted which is entirely different (no "end times" in the way an evangelical Christian would understand the concept). There is no comparison to be made there as the concept is radically different. Buddhism doesn't deal in this sort of narcissism either. It is a rather narcissistic belief, as early Christian/Catholic writers were careful to remind their readers that devoting time to fantasizing that one was in the "end times" (this was a fad for a bit with Jewish and early Christian versions of the apocalypse in which the Romans were the big enemy -- writers like Augustine tried to discourage what he considered a trendy form of cultic belief), was a waste of energy and even self-aggrandizing -- as Augustine said we have no idea when such things *might* happen so concentrate on being a better person in the world now.

The Norse end times aren't of course anything like the Christian evangelical end times (so for me it's kind of pointless to attempt any comparison at all). It is a death of the gods, the fundamental collapse of the known world/universe, wholesale destruction of the most powerful gods and the collapse of Valhalla itself, not a time when the good people get sucked up into the air and bad people get "punished." That is child's play compared to the Norse beliefs. It's the end of everything -- not a time when the good people get their final reward. Very Norse -- nobody wins.

The evangelical concept of the rapture and their version of the end times, which of course is only popular in America and a (very) few other places where American prosperity gospel stuff is being pushed heavily, is self-focused (me plus all the good people I like will get rescued by Jesus and we will get to see the bad people punished!). Hinduism, Buddhism, traditional Catholicism, most forms of traditional Protestantism, Norse pagan beliefs, etc do not work this way. It is all from the 19th century, and it originated in American evangelical religious trends (neither Catholics nor mainline Protestants believe in the same concept in the same way).

Unfortunately we have a few of these in our (distant) family. Several generations of them have now lived and died and the last generation is in its 50s -- they have been given date after date after date when it is DEFINITELY GOING TO HAPPEN, and they write frantic letters/emails etc to relatives crying about how they (the bad relatives of course) are DOOMED -- then it passes, of course. We thought they'd give it up after seeing grandparents, parents, even siblings and friends die with no return of Jesus but they still cling to it.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

12. All of this is true - I was just making the point that many religions

have some version of an "end time" when everything comes crashing down, and the world either comes back in some other or improved form, or not. In some belief systems the whole thing just starts all over again.

The Rapture is a 19th-century invention that is believed by some fundamentalist Christians, though not by Catholics or mainstream Protestants; but the "second coming" comes from the New Testament, probably based on the Jewish belief in the coming of a messiah. To early Christians, who were at first just a Jewish spin-off sect, Jesus was the messiah in the Jewish sense. After he was executed the belief was that he would come again and clean things up, per Revelation; they just didn't know when that would happen. The 19th-century Rapture idea was based loosely on Revelation but with the additional goofy notion of the faithful being yanked bodily up into heaven at some predictable date, which doesn't happen and then they have to come up with an excuse for the fact that the Rapture didn't happen last Tuesday like it was supposed to.

Nelson Darby, a preacher in the Plymouth Brethren church, was the guy who "invented" the Rapture, and he was actually British. It never caught on very well in England (the Anglican church thought it was both heretical and stupid), but some American sects adopted it and made it even weirder. And here we are.

[SHRED]

5. Christianity is a patriarchal religion

A fiery and vengeful male figure will destroy the earth.

I can't stand this male dominated religious bullshit.

[anneboleyn]

10. Abrahamic religions -- all very similar. Norse religion -- NOBODY wins. Even Odin dies. Hinduism

is far more vast and profound than I could write about here -- thousands of gods and goddesses and a very old, complex belief system. Buddhism as well. Evangelicals in America are the group that believes in the "rapture" idea, which always seemed childish to me even when I was a child.

[SHRED]

14. Same God

God of Abraham

Judaism
Christianity
Islam

Same macho bullshit.

I think their followers have "daddy issues".

[Initech]

9. WTF is wrong with these people?

[anneboleyn]

11. They live in a child's world -- blanket themselves in narcissism and self-indulgent beliefs.

[msongs]

13. be sure to send money to the preacher. that's what preachers really want. odd since end

times means he won't get to spend it on himself. and its usually a him nt

[ThoughtCriminal]

15. "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain..."

Fundamentalists seem to have no clue of what that commandment REALLY means.

[MineralMan]

16. Perhaps we're already in the post-end-times.

Perhaps we're living it right now. I wonder if the fundies ever thought about that?

Maybe Jesus returned a long, long time ago, "The Rupture" already happened, and we're in the middle of the second part of the story from Revelation.

Or maybe it's all silliness and none of that supernatural stuff is real in the first place...

[Beartracks]

17. Interesting... But "they" wouldn't consider that, because "they" are still here!

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