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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhy The Unknown Motive In The Las Vegas Massacre Is So Unsettling
Without answers that make gunman Stephen Paddock a rare and distant monster, Americans are paralyzed by fear
By Melissa Healy, The Los Angeles Times
Posted Oct 16, 2017 at 1:54 PM
LAS VEGAS -- We need to know.
Two weeks after Stephen Paddock rained down bullets on attendees of a country music festival in Las Vegas, killing 58 and injuring more than 500, investigators are no closer to understanding the gunmans motives.
For a nation riveted by the deadliest mass shooting in recent U.S. history, this is a deeply unsettling problem.
Police detectives and criminal profilers are working overtime to dissect Paddocks behavior, circumstances and psychological state in the lead-up to the shootings. Mental health professionals and experts on human behavior, meanwhile, are bearing witness to a more common and less mysterious response on the part of Americans: a sense that without an explanation for Paddocks actions, we cannot psychologically close the chapter on this shooting.
The lack of explanation here is bothering us on an almost existential level, said psychologist Yuval Neria, an expert on post-traumatic stress disorder at Columbia University in New York. Its an anguish Neria says he has heard in his lab and in his clinical practice from people who have followed the unfolding horrors from afar and from those with direct ties to the shooting.
It is an unconscious and profound human trait to seek a motive for catastrophic violence. It is a means of self-defense, said Jeff Victoroff, a professor of psychiatry and neurology at the University of Southern California and an expert in trauma, terrorism and human aggression. People need to make contingency plans, to protect themselves, by assigning a motive, recognizing people with that motive, and staying away from them.
more...
http://www.recordonline.com/zz/news/20171016/why-unknown-motive-in-las-vegas-massacre-is-so-unsettling
pbmus
(12,422 posts)Could buy more than 30 rifles and thousands of rounds of ammo in 1 year and murder 58 people before supposedly taking his own entitled life.
He was a bombastic narcissistic psychopath that wanted his last hurrah to be of his choosing...
It is called mental illness...anybody else have a better theory?
Purveyor
(29,876 posts)pbmus
(12,422 posts)People low in trust of others are likely to believe that others are colluding against them, the authors proposed. This sort of distrust, in other words, favors a certain kind of belief. It makes you more susceptible, not less, to claims of conspiracy.
Mental illness is real and doesnt just happen to the poor .
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)WHAT HAPPENED TO THE GRASSY MOUND? WHO TOOK AND WHY???!!!
It's believed the CIA has hidden it in Navy hospital ship Comfort, and that's why it sits empty at anchor off San Juan.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/16/health/puerto-rico-hospital-ship/index.html
?ve=1&tl=1
Those boats are believed to be a secret joint CIA/GRU mission to keep people from getting close enough to see grass in the windows.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,160 posts)True Dough
(17,296 posts)But what's so unsettling is how he kept it concealed. He was methodological in formulating a heinous plan and he carried it out in calculated fashion. To think someone could be so unhinged and yet so effective is what makes his actions truly terrifying.
pbmus
(12,422 posts)HipChick
(25,485 posts)I don't why folks keep looking for a reason..
pbmus
(12,422 posts)for these types of people...
But thank you, he had definitely crossed over to the dark side...
He was going ton check out and made a calculated decision to take as many as possible with him.
It's a lot simpler than they think.....
pbmus
(12,422 posts)It took me 10 years of schooling after high school and thousands of sessions and I still learn something new everyday...
And a motive would be simpler to understand, however not really...the act of murdering strangers is still incomprehensible, even to me....
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,489 posts)It's confusing to me when some professionals speak as if someone committing such a crime is not necessarily mentally ill. Perhaps it's a matter of technical definitions. Many laymen like myself would assume that no sane person could do this (particularly since it was very premeditated), and that he must have concealed some form and degree of mental illness such as psychopathy - perhaps all his life.
Even if a perfectly sane person could somehow be mentally changed and conditioned by his environment to do this, wouldn't it still be considered a mental illness just to commit such a horrendous crime?
MFM008
(19,803 posts)I have a 52 year history with mental issues, i shouldnt have made it sound so "easy".
pbmus
(12,422 posts)Sorry if I sounded that way.. a way to make it understandable is to look at all his (what I call) variables
He was a loner, had/was abusing people that he was intimate with, played alone with a machine for 12-16 hrs at night and slept during daytime, and many other variations to include nature/nurture factors. When you look at all these factors and dig deeper, his behavior becomes easier to understand, however his actions will never be fully explained....not even berkowitz, speck, bundy or all the other who could never fully explain their own actions...
I forgot to include environmental factors, ie...when society becomes more dystopian the fringes of our society become more agitated and can become more dangerous
haele
(12,645 posts)The inability to see anyone other than a things. The need to hurt because the anger over every single frustration, slight, or grievance that has been building up over the years is so great.
The need for ultimate control - to reign in hell for a bit just to see the world burn around him as an acknowledgement to his actual importance as he checks out.
I suspect he made the decision a long time ago. He just needed the right environment to act in.
Haele
brush
(53,759 posts)His woman probably left his crazy, misogynist ass.
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)He decided to carry out his plan and dumped her. She likely knew of his plans for years but never took it seriously. That's why the FBI keeps questioning her. Because even psychopaths talk about their visions of grander. I should know, with two psychopath brothers.
brush
(53,759 posts)joshcryer
(62,269 posts)Enough said.
Except: "And buying lots of guns in a short period of time was normal as deemed by society."
whathehell
(29,050 posts)Maybe not for everyone, especially if you or one of yours was a victim of it.
.
pbmus
(12,422 posts)explanation of why...the human condition can be fragile and break under pressures that is sometimes not understandable and if you or one of yours was a victim, I can only empathize with your feelings.
whathehell
(29,050 posts)for your kind words.
mountain grammy
(26,608 posts)he had run out of "fun" and it'll be almost the same as the bombastic, narcissistic psychopath in the White House who has an entire nuclear arsenal to blow up.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)he discovered guns, it became inevitable that his personality would demand a gigantic jackpot.
Death was the only thing that would stop him.
Willie Pep
(841 posts)You are probably on to something. Sadly a lot of people are making up their own motives for political reasons. One of my uncles thinks Paddock was a Muslim convert and another uncle thinks he was a Democrat out to get country music fans for being Republicans. Ugh.
I wish more people thought of plausible explanations like yours.
Tikki
(14,555 posts)knowing that isis always takes credit and hoping it would resonate
with people like your uncle.
After all, the mass murderer shooter knew many of the Vegas moguls who donated to trump.
Tikki
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)booked. That intended concert target wasn't Country, so the political angle can probably be eliminated.
As for Paddock's being a Muslim convert, I don't know of anything in his life that would indicate that.
I appreciate your reply.
Skittles
(153,138 posts)what sets them off to do something like this?
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Please don't posit a variety of the OJ defense, that "not every wife-abuser becomes a murderer."
My theory applies to Paddock, as I'm considering his high-stakes gambling as well.
Locrian
(4,522 posts)The psychology of a gambler has got to be part of it.
I think a lot of people think of it as harmless fun - but there's a very real dark hole that I suspect a lot of people go down into: nothing else matters, people, morality, humanity, relationships etc all become irrelevant and boring. Trivial. Something for loosers.
The winning becomes validation in his vision of him as some type of "special" or "smarter than anyone" / godlike.
Couple that with a need for the thrill, easy access to guns, etc....
LisaM
(27,800 posts)People describe him as normal, but I don't see his lifestyle as being the least bit normal, especially the casino lifestyle.
Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)I'm not particularly surprised because I lived in Las Vegas for 25 years. While I wouldn't have forecast something on this scale we always believed something was possible. I distinctly remember a friend of mine named Harry isolating various guys in town and saying, "You know he could do that...walk in and blow away the entire crowd...and not think anything of it."
Initially I would make fun of the wackos and tell them how ridiculous their theories were, like my friend Ron who thought there was a secret camera inside the Caesar's Palace betting board designed to monitor him alone. But then I wised up -- circa fall 1992 -- when a few of the wackos described their obsession with guns, and size of their stash. They were paranoid about Clinton actually denying another Republican term. In that case they would have to find the nearest gun shop and buy as much as they could afford.
The oddity in this case is that Paddock was primarily a high stakes video poker machine player. I can't say I knew many of those guys. The high limit machine rooms are small and typically cater to gamblers who don't live in Las Vegas. That describes Paddock, from what I understand.
The guys I knew who played video poker did it on the quarter "full pay" machines, which were Jacks or Better machines with 9/6 pay table, as in 9 coins for full house and 6 coins for a flush. Some of the casinos actually set those machines at 101% payback or slightly above, but only with optimum play. They would gamble that people would not use optimum strategy. That was true for tourists but local wise guys would play every hand perfectly and also have a Players Card in the slot, racking up points and other benefits (comped food, etc.). Eventually the casinos severely cut back on those "full pay" machines and changed them to 8/5. That eliminated the advantage. Until Paddock I hadn't heard much about video poker in recent years, after the pay tables were changed.
TrollBuster9090
(5,954 posts)...it shouldn't be because they can't figure out WHY he cracked up, or what crack-pot reason he used to rationalize mass murder.
They should be paralyzed by fear of the fact that any random nutcase can easily get 47 assault rifles, dozens of magazines, thousands of rounds of ammunition, and gadgets to convert semi-automatic rifles into fully automatic machine guns in just a year.
If it wasn't for the goddam gun lobby insisting that it be easier to buy military-grade weapons than it is to buy f--king cough syrup, this nutcase would have been up there trying to mass murder innocent people with a bolt-action deer rifle. He might have killed three or four people, and injured 10; instead of killing 60 and injuring 500 people in ten minutes.
Sadly, I think people are going to continue fretting over motive, and ignoring the real problem: access.
Demsrule86
(68,539 posts)It is the porn phenomenon after a while you want the real thing. He wanted the real thing...and their are plenty like him out there...sick bastards fantasizing about blowing people away...George Zimmerman was this type of killer. Some police who gun people down when there is no risk to them are the same too. I think some join the force so they can kill.
jmowreader
(50,546 posts)Maybe he wasn't nearly as good a gambler as he thinks he was.
Could it be that he was up to his ears in debt to the Mafia, wasn't able to pay them back, and was informed he would be killed if he didn't come up with their money...and, rather than just sit around waiting to be whacked, decided to go out in a blaze of glory?
former9thward
(31,963 posts)Law enforcement has access to all of his bank accounts, credit cards, etc.
Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)That's silly. But I don't really fault anyone since the media in this case has done an incompetent job of defining the video poker player within the gambling community.
Video poker players are basically not respected. That could have been Paddock's breakdown as much as anything. He was self defined as the biggest video poker player in the world. That's not worth a shrug in Las Vegas. The casinos would know about him but not feel threatened by his action. The serious gamblers in town would basically ignore him due to his chosen specialty.
In video poker you play hundreds if not thousands of hands in rapid fire during an isolated sit down session. Nobody else is rooting you on or aware of anything you do. Well, not unless you hit a Royal Flush and the lights start flashing briefly, before the hand pay.
It is a mostly boring pursuit since you aren't making decisions on the fly as opposed to merely robotically holding the correct cards time after time. With the top guys there might be one hand in a thousand in which they have to pause briefly and consider which option is best. Otherwise it's clear cut math.
I have to laugh every time the FBI proclaims that Paddock wagered $30,000 per day, or whatever. Paddock during that deposition properly scoffed when the questioner asserted that a million dollars per day is a lot of money. Not in video poker. Not close. I'm sure there were days in which I wagered hundreds of thousands per day in video poker. There is no fear or sweat at all. You know damn well that virtually every dollar you cycle through the machine will be returned to you. Those machines are set at 98% or higher payback, not to mention the Player's Card you are using that bumps the return via comps and points. It's hardly the equivalent of a sports wager where you'll get back double your money, or nothing at all. That's the reason those guys become local legends when they dominate the sportsbooks over a stretch of time.
With high volume video poker players the primary variable is how often you hit 4 of a Kind. When those wins come in succession like 6 or 8 of them within an hour, then you clean up. But when you go an hour or more between 4 of a Kind, that's when your credits on the machine really dwindle. Guys go nuts, especially when they are dealt 3 of a Kind repeatedly but never draw the fourth.
I've been waiting for the media to point out something like that. Frankly they have no clue. Unless you are involved in gambling day to day and know other guys who are similarly relying on gambling of some sort for their livelihood, you simply can't pick up the realities from afar.
Obviously the Royal Flush or Straight Flush occurrences can also impact your bottom line. But those hands are so rare compared to 4 of a Kind, which is really the tipping point, like turnovers in football. The video poker player seated next to you can be an idiot who holds the wrong cards on 5 hands out of 100, but if he has a streak of good luck in 4 of a Kind he'll best the guy who won't make a mistake among one hand all year.
Achilleaze
(15,543 posts)and so-called "role model" you would - sadly - have to expect degenerate behavior.
ProfessorPlum
(11,254 posts)Even if the guy was alive and explained it to us, we wouldn't say, "ah, well, I get it now".
the guy was a vicious, evil loon.
Dave Starsky
(5,914 posts)We could assign the responsibility for this tragedy to some unique personality quirk of his and completely absolve that smoking tubular object he had in his hands.
ProfessorPlum
(11,254 posts)A "reason" would help the gunhuggers ignore it.
whathehell
(29,050 posts)The gun laws (or should I say lack of such) in this country are horrific, but it's actually not an either or matter..This was an appalling crime that cries out for a motive.
whathehell
(29,050 posts)by it and even those indirectly affected. It's certainly a legitimate
area of inquiry. Those who aren't interested are free to ignore it.
ProfessorPlum
(11,254 posts)Give me a hypothetical reason that would make a difference to a victim or their family
whathehell
(29,050 posts)in a tragedy. Any is more satisfying than none.
pbmus
(12,422 posts)JI7
(89,244 posts)doodsaq
(120 posts)...because from all appearances, Paddock looked like your typical, "responsible" gun lover. They simply can't fathom someone buying weapons designed for efficient killing and...using them to efficiently kill a lot of people. Who would have imagined?
Dotards.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)ecstatic
(32,677 posts)is that there would be no interest or curiosity if the shooter was of a different race or Muslim. The narrative would be set and that would be the end of it.
My theory is the same theory I have for all mass shooters: A psycho with access to weapons of war. The specific "reason" doesn't matter, as it's secondary to the illness (and would not be present, at least not in an obsessive way, without the illness).
hunter
(38,309 posts)He chose to listen. I don't see any mystery at all.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017462241
I don't trust anyone who listens to guns, from the first call of a new gun, "buy me!"
Gun fetishes are disgusting.
Vinca
(50,249 posts)We didn't even go through the GOP "it's not guns, it's mental health" phase. The other question that remains besides motive is how many days until it happens again?
Yavin4
(35,427 posts)If he bought sports cars, he would drive them. Buying multiple weapons of mass death, means that you will want to use them.
Corvo Bianco
(1,148 posts)The guns are, though.
ProfessorPlum
(11,254 posts)That would make everyone say "oh yeah, that makes sense"
Squinch
(50,934 posts)And a brain bath of gun humperism.
Initech
(100,054 posts)Wanting to use said death toys and going out in a fiery blaze of glory. Other than that, I got nothing.
Corgigal
(9,291 posts)All those 50 plus trips this year hint at it. Unlike a talented artist like Prince who is immortal due to his music and the unreleased music in his safe, he will be remembered.
This asshole was nothing, no one gave a crap about him nor did he seem to care about anyone else. Aims a bunch of weapons, immortal.
FBI knows about these clowns, might want to pretend that their isn't too many around though.
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)The person had just flipped his lid and we all moved on.
Now it HAS to be terror, or else.....