Alligator Brewing Co's response to Richard Spencer's upcoming speech. This is amazing.

[kpete]

Link to tweet

[rzemanfl]

1. K&R. n/t

[Glorfindel]

2. Wonderful! A creative, nonviolent way to counter the hatred.

If I can find something for sale made by Alligator Brewing here in Georgia, I'll buy it in support of the brave stance of this company.

[riversedge]

3. Resisting does help.

[Initech]

4. I'll drink to that!

[FSogol]

5. Awesome. K&R. n/t

[Honeycombe8]

6. Wow. Strong. And proposes action. Great. nt

[workinclasszero]

7. WTG Alligator Brewing!

[Baitball Blogger]

8. Fantastic. Now that's how you handle this situation.

BTW, if Hate crimes lead to felonies, why isn't hate speech better regulated?

[GulfCoast66]

10. Research the First amendment. It is very interesting. nt

[Baitball Blogger]

12. Yes, yes, yes. But, we have laws for inciting riots and I imagine that speech

has a big play in determining if someone is crossing the line.

[IronLionZion]

13. There are supreme court rulings on this

The KKK has lost money in fines and lawsuits over inciting violence.

[Baitball Blogger]

15. There you go.

How far off is Spencer from doing the same thing? I haven't heard his speeches, and probably never will be inclined to do so, but if they're talking the same talk it just seems like fines, at the least, should be imposed.

[GulfCoast66]

33. Thank goodness you are not king

We do not and cannot fine or in any way use government to punish speech. He is free to say whatever he wants.

[Baitball Blogger]

35. Look up Columbine and you will find anti-bullying programs followed.

Speech was regulated. This country has a pattern of cause and effect.

[Alice11111]

74. Disagree.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

19. Here we go again.

1) Define hate speech.

2) However you define hate speech, it is Constitutionally protected.

3) Please cite the existing regulations on hate speech.

[Baitball Blogger]

21. Yet, if you combine hate speech with actions, it becomes a criminal act.

And, not just a criminal act, but a hate crime.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

22. Actions, not speech.

It is perfectly legal for the Nazis or the Klan to get together and loudly proclaim how much they hate {members of some group}.

It is not perfectly legal for the Nazis or the Klan to start shooting members of that group.

Big difference.

The assembly might have to meet the requirements of local zoning laws, or a parade permit might be required, but that's not a Constitutional thing. For example, they couldn't get together at 2 a.m. to put on a noisy demonstration. The point is, neither could anyone else, as such a regulation would not be dependent on the content of the speech.

[Baitball Blogger]

25. I think we are dancing on a line.

Sadly, this thing tends to evolve as actions escalate.

For example, I suspect the Columbine massacre - and others that followed - may have precipitated the anti-bullying movement in the schools and has since spread outward. That is an example where speech has been regulated.

[GulfCoast66]

34. I am always shocked

At the number of DU members who go all authoritarian when it comes to speech. It is the one issue we liberals should all agree on. Have a nice day.

[Baitball Blogger]

46. I'm sure, that as liberals, we probably had something to do with the

anti-bullying programs that went into effect after Columbine. Afterall, liberals are the ones that get criticized for being PC. So, even though those attempts to bring civility into our discussions with the other side has fallen on deaf ears, we still know that sometimes, words are actions.

I don't think a white racist has the right to use a public venue to call for violence or a rising or revolution. Anything that falls under the category of violence is, in itself, breaking the letter of the law when it comes to inciting a riot.

But, maybe someone would have better success at pointing out that connection if they dissect what Spencer actually says on Saturday. I, personally, don't have the stomach for it.

[LanternWaste]

53. I'm always shocked...

I'm always shocked at the number of people who call in-place restrictions, regulations and consequences of speech "authoritarian," regardless of whether one's day is nice or not.

[GulfCoast66]

68. Which speech restrictions are you referring to?

There are and should be restrictions on speech in institutions like schools and government work places. After all, that is no different that my employer having the ability terminate my employment if I violate various standards. And of course, if I harass a certain person nonstop then speech passes into action and it can be stopped.

But what restrictions are on a speech I give in public, regardless of whether it is on the street or at a public University? There are and should be none. This dickhead is free to say whatever he wants at the University of Florida. I support that right.

Sorry if you disagree, but suppressing speech is authoritarian. I guarantee you that Trump and his merry band of fascist would love to criminalize kneeling during the national anthem. The likely new senator from Alabama just said so much. And without the first amendment it would happen. A shit ton of Americans agree.

And I hope you have a nice evening, even if my curtesy offends you.

[Bob Loblaw]

61. Don't tell me what kind of day to have

[yodermon]

69. Brandenburg v. Ohio precedent could be successfully challenged without rendering us "authoritarian".

Also UK and Germany might beg to differ on their status as "authoritarian" states, as hate speech is illegal there.

[GulfCoast66]

70. I stand with the ACLU.

Legally there is just speech.

I love Europe. Just returned after 3 weeks there. They are living in their halcyon days and I hope the last for centuries. But I will take our enumerated freedoms over their version. Because they do not really have a glorious history of protecting rights. Only since we got seriously involved.

[Alice11111]

73. Agree

[mythology]

43. There has to be a direct line to violence against specific people

The mere advocacy of violence isn't enough.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio

[mopinko]

9. they'll just overbook.

but, way to go alligator brewing.

[Hortensis]

57. Spencer's group will give away 800 tickets at the event to offset this.

We'll have to see how many students and others show up and either take and trash the tickets OR use them to attend the rally. Bet the police love this prospect, and I'm not sure it wouldn't work for the nazis also. The kids probably wouldn't have the sense and discipline to drench the energy with seated silence.

Miami Herald:

The National Policy Institute, the Southern Poverty Center-designated hate group Spencer runs his operation from, is giving away the 800 free tickets in person at the Oct 19 event. “Volunteers” from the organization will give out tickets on a first-come, first-served basis.

... Although the original rental contract between UF and NPI suggests the tickets should be distributed by the university, UF spokeswoman Janine Sikes said NPI chose to distribute the tickets itself. “It is their event and the tickets are theirs to distribute,” she said. “There is no violation of policy.”

UF President Kent Fuchs, as well as multiple law enforcement agencies (and even Sen. Marco Rubio) have encouraged students to stay away from Spencer’s event — both for their own safety and to deny him an audience. Spencer is a noted racist who had openly advocated for a white ethnostate achieved via “peaceful ethnic cleansing.”

Spencer, who chose UF as his first stop on an unofficial campus tour, was not invited to the school by any student groups. He rented space on campus and threatened to sue the university when they balked on the grounds of security concerns, a front of mind issue after Spencer’s last major planned speaking event — the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville — ended with bloodshed and death.
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article178895986.html

The university should have stood firm.

[lagomorph777]

11. Love it!

[IronLionZion]

14. I'm going to look for Alligator brewing Co and buy their beer

[Fritz Walter]

39. So will I!

With plenty of craft beer to choose and imbibe here in Jacksonville — 1 ½ hours away from Gainesville — I should be able to find a pub that serves it and maybe even grab a six-pack at my corner craft beer boutique “Beer:30”.

Cheers!
Skål!
Salud!
Į sveikata!
Prost!

[dhill926]

16. Good on them....

May have to visit their website and grab a tshirt or two...

[mountain grammy]

17. Fantastic! K&R

[lark]

18. OMG, so proud of them!

I work for an affiliate of the University of Fl. and President Fuchs has been emailing out to the students and workers that not engaging, not giving them the hate they want, is the best answer to keep peace on the campus. Spencer is renting a small hall way off from the main campus.

Scott also declared a state of emergency so they could bring in additional police and plans are for the entire area to be blanketed with cops keeping the racist haters in line. I just pray we don't have a recurrence of what happened at Charlottesville where police aided and abetted the Nazis and KKK at first.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

20. That's some Florida pride I have right there.

I have family in the Gainesville area and I'm up there frequently. So I do believe I'll be paying them a visit.

Good on em.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

23. PS: Here's their Facebook page. Give them a like.

https://www.facebook.com/alligatorbrew/?fref=ts

[dalton99a]

31. +1

[madokie]

24. Awesome

[Achilleaze]

26. Thank you alligator

[mcar]

27. That's the way to do it!

He wants to incite violence. Let him speak to an empty hall.

[The Mouth]

40. Yes.

With all due respect to counter-protesters- who are at least doing *something*- nothing humiliates and demoralizes any political or social movement (or a band, for that matter) than an empty hall and/or tiny audience. These fuckers would *THRIVE* with 5000 Antifa kick ass black clad ready to rock folks trying to kill them, it's what they WANT, it's what attracts more losers to their cause like moths to a flame. Speaking to a dozen or so people, or better yet none, is what will make them go back to trolling 4chan from their mom's basement.

[lancelyons]

28. Thats not really going out on a limb.

i like the idea but 2 tickets for 1 beer? There are not going to be alot of takers on that.

if they had done 1 ticket for 1 beer that would have been different.

Who has 2 tickets and want to drive over to the brew house for 1 beer?

[zipplewrath]

32. They are free

The tickets are free, or so this outfit asserts. As such, all it takes to get a free beer is to take the effort to collect two tickets.

[awesomerwb1]

29. Love it.

Simple and creative!

[dalton99a]

30. Brilliant.

[NastyRiffraff]

36. Nicely done!

I wish their beer were available more widely. But there's hope! From their website:

Alligator is, for now, a very small operation, but we’re working hard to keep things interesting.

[Dem_4_Life]

37. Way to go Alligator Brewing!!!

That's so awesome! Very clever way to counter protest.

[LittleGirl]

38. Our Indivisible Group

did something similar to #45's Phoenix speech in August. We got tickets for it and didn't show up inside, but remained outside with our protest signs. It was 107 degrees that day.

[Alice11111]

72. !!!

[cilla4progress]

41. Thats what I'M talking about!

Now that's some real patrotism there!!

[HopeAgain]

42. Brilliant!!

This is creative resistance.

[Gothmog]

44. That is a great response to hate speech

Normally the answer to bad speech is more speech but beer works also

[smirkymonkey]

45. Bravo!

When they go low, we need to get creative!

[raven mad]

47. As a former Floridian, I can say for sure Alligator is Community Strong.

And will stay that way.

[Initech]

71. Too bad I didn't see them at GABF this year!

If they're there next year, I will definitely give them a high five for this!

[KY_EnviroGuy]

48. Would be cool to see other companies do this.

Like Starbucks, hamburger joints, etc.

[VaBchTgerLily]

49. FANTASTIC IDEA!!!........

might just be my new favorite beer!

[niyad]

50. excellent!!!

is it just me--or does that image of FL (it is FL, yes???) look like a gun?? and here, I always thought it resembled a limp phallus. mind---don't GO there!!!

[Mediumsizedhand]

51. This is good stuff.

[GETPLANING]

52. DRINK ALLIGATOR BEER

It's the patriotic thing to do

[Stryst]

58. Alligator is a good company

They have regular "Drink with the extinct" events at the natural history museum in Gainsville to raise funds for them.

[chia]

54. Love this. Love being inspired by creative resistance.

K&R

[orangecrush]

55. Bloody awesome

Well done, Alligator!

[SpankMe]

56. How cool is this? Reall cool! That's how! n/t

[cp]

59. Good for them!

[DinahMoeHum]

60. Nice. Next time I'm in Florida, I'll drink their beers.

[skip fox]

62. With this issue boiling right now, let me tell you about Bowling Green Ohio ca. 1963.

Bowling Green State University brought Lincoln Rockwell, the head of the American Nazi Party, to campus and allowed the entire town to come to the basketball arena to hear him speak. I was a sophomore or junior in high school and my father took my mother, one of my sisters and myself to the event. It seem the entire town was there. Most of us dressed up in school clothes or better. My dad wore a sport coat and tie.

I remember the night and the filled arena. I remember Rockwell delivering a talk on The American Nazi Party. He was an older man, polite, well spoken and in a suit. After his address, there were questions. It probably last ninety minutes or more.

While I don't remember specifics of his talk, the questions or his answers, I remember the entire town treating him respectfully, and I remember being very proud of us all that night. I was very aware that a great number of the men in the audience had fought the Nazis and a number had probably lost close friends in that fight. Yet it was a civil discussion which was very educational beyound the specifics because of that very fact: the civility.

Granted, Lincoln Rockwell was not outrageous or demonstrably offensive or outrageous. If he had been like one of the cretins I saw in Charlottesville, I too would try to deny him an audience. But back in those days it was wonderful for adolescents to watch The First Amendment exercised in the manner visualized by our founders' ideals.

[Jopin Klobe]

63. A thousand cases ...

... for all my Generals ...

... Lincoln would have been proud ...

[mdbl]

64. Totally Excellent!

Love it.

[X_Digger]

65. THIS is how you handle speech you don't agree with. k&r n/t

[steve2470]

66. ATTN ALL GAINESVILLE FRIENDS AND BUISINESSES!!! Read this right now (from ABC)

https://www.facebook.com/alligatorbrew/posts/10155794380934555

Richard Spencer event organizer Cameron Padgett just came by the bar/brewery attempting to trade 3 event tickets (that we attempted, but were unable to verify, as they have not been publicly released). After entering, he began live tweeting video and his friendly demeanor changed from naive and friendly to aggressive and concerning. We asked him to leave, at which point he began fabricating false slurs we had used (we were still unaware of who he was and what he was doing but would insult him??) and continued to film to create a false narrative. Please everyone use caution and be safe. A non-violent approach may still be met with aggressiveness.

Please share and keep our streets safe

[Squinch]

67. That's awesome.

(But the spelling tyrant inside me says, "It's supremAcy." )

[Alice11111]

75. Brilliant. Sets a great precedent. I love to see people

Creatively fighting back, especially in non violent humorous ways.

[Nitram]

76. Excellent!

[ATL Ebony]

77. Wish I lived closer, I'd go for tickets. I don't drink beer so would pass them to someone who does.

[ProfessorGAC]

78. Outstanding!

Good on Alligator Brewing for this!

[Calista241]

79. Gonna have to try that beer.

Never heard of it before this tho.