An elegant solution that just might save us from Trump

[FightingIrish]

The conduct of Donald Trump is prompting more serious discussion about his removal from office. The most obvious courses are impeachment and removal from office under the 25th Amendment. If Robert Mueller’s investigation leads to impeachable charges against Trump, the impeachment process could lead to Trump’s removal from office and, constitutionally, he would be replaced by Vice President Mike Pence. House Speaker Paul Ryan would automatically become Vice President. Any subsequent impeachments would just move the procession along with some pretty unsavory successors waiting in the wings (Sessions, DeVos, Carson...). The process could be long and potentially destructive to our union.

A better scenario that has a quite recent precedent would be removal and replacement of the president under some provisions of the the 25th Amendment. It could be accomplished quickly and result in the will of the majority in the 2016 election being validated. It could be done without the cabinet and Vice President acting together against Trump. When Richard Nixon resigned in disgrace, neither Gerald Ford nor his Vice President Nelson Rockefeller had been previously in the line of succession.

Vice President Spiro Agnew resigned. The 25th amendment allowed Richard Nixon to “nominate” Agnew’s successor. He chose House Minority Leader Gerald Ford as his new Vice President. Upon Nixon’s resignation, Ford automatically succeeded him as President. Ford nominated Nelson Rockefeller who was at that time a private citizen. It was all constitutional and our union survived.

There is a scenario in which Robert Mueller could present Trump, Pence and the congressional leaders of both parties a solution that would avoid impeachment. If Mueller can make an air-tight case that both Trump and Pence are criminally at fault and facing imprisonment, he might be able to broker a nation-saving deal.

Under threat of impeachment and prosecution, Pence would agree to resign. Under the same threat, Trump would nominate Hillary Clinton to replace him as Vice President. She would be confirmed with a majority vote in both houses of Congress. Trump would then dissolve his cabinet and resign the presidency. Clinton would automatically become President and would nominate Tim Kaine much as Ford did Rockefeller. President Hillary Clinton (I love the sound of that) would issue limited pardons to Trump and Pence per the deal brokered by Mueller. Ironically, we would wind up with the government the majority actually chose in 2016 and we wouldn't have to face a revote and another divisive campaign.

It seems far-fetched but it happened before and it could happen again. I hope someone is thinking about this possibility.

[HopeAgain]

1. To dream the impossible dream...

Don't worry, I won't wake you up.

[Greybnk48]

2. My dad said Nixon would never be ousted. Never!

We were shocked (and thrilled) at how fast that all went down. We need something like this to happen since this whole gang is rotten to the core.

[HopeAgain]

5. What we need and what we will get is two different things..

What would make anyone think Mueller's goal might be to see Hillary as President? Mueller is looking for crimes. Period, end of story. He knows it is not his job to get involved in the political process.

[mreilly]

7. Agreed.

I like the idea, don't get me wrong, but it sounds like the plot of a movie.

As you said Mueller isn't interested in who succeeds Trump or Pence. It's not his job to undo the results of the 2016 election. If indeed Trump and Pence are compelled to resign, I'm afraid the GOP will still retain the WH until 2020.

[DonaldsRump]

3. How does Ryan "automatically" become VP if Pence becomes President?

Gerald Ford became President, and as you said, picked Nelson Rockefeller as his VP.

Carl Albert, a Democrat, was the Speaker of the House of Representatives in 1974. Using the automatic route you mentioned in the first paragraph of your post, why wouldn't Carl Albert have become Ford's VP?

Anyways, I like the spirit! Impeachment and conviction is the best route, as the Trumpistas would just shout "coup" if the 25th Amendment were invoked.

[FightingIrish]

8. It looks like the 25th Amendment leaves that open to presidential nomination

Section 2 of the 25th Amendment of the US Constitution: Whenever there is vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both houses of Congress.

[wasupaloopa]

4. We can only regain power by taking part in the democratic process what is left of it.

All the wishing and hoping and faith in Mueller will not get us to where we want to be. There is no silver bullet or magic solution.

It is in our hands.

[rsdsharp]

6. If Trump is impeached

and convicted, Pence would become President. Ryan, however, would not become Vice President. he would be next in line until a new Vice President is confirmed. Under Section 2 of the 25th Amendment "Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress."

The key word in the section, relative to your post, is "whenever." Section 2 doesn't just apply if the Vice President dies or resigns. If he or she becomes President for whatever reason, the office of the Vice President is vacant, and the new President would nominate a new Vice President.

[Javaman]

9. TRump will be dragged kicking and screaming from theWH

There will be nothing elegant about his final removal

[brooklynite]

10. Hell no!

Do you really want the precedent of a Prosecutor dictating political outcomes, even if they're the "right" ones?

[trueblue2007]

11. interesting and awesome

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

12. It is beyond far-fetched that Trump would

nominate Hillary Clinton to be VP to replace Pence, if Pence resigns. It's delusional to think that might happen.

For one thing, the House has to confirm the nominee. Under what scenario can you imagine the current House confirming Clinton?

If Pence resigns, a Republican will replace him. We can only hope it's a Republican who is actually a decent human being, but given today's political climate, whoever is nominated will probably be even worse than Pence.

[FightingIrish]

13. My point is that, backed into a corner by Mueller

Pence and Trump would take the easy way out. It’s the art of the deal.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

14. Confirm Hillary as VP? Easy way out?

Do you honestly not understand how rabidly partisan Washington Republicans are, how totally unwilling to cooperate in any distant way with Democrats?

There is simply no way Hillary Clinton or any other Democrat would be confirmed as a replacement VP. Period.