Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

babylonsister

(171,057 posts)
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 07:10 PM Oct 2017

Pierce: Do I Applaud This Speech from George W. Bush?

I have the same ambivalence.


http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a13053454/george-w-bush-speech-trump/


Do I Applaud This Speech from George W. Bush?
I really don't know. We're on dangerous ground.
By Charles P. Pierce
Oct 19, 2017


I watched C-Plus Augustus give a speech on Thursday morning that went off like a bit of a grenade in the national dialogue. A very long portion of it obviously was an attack on the current occupant of the office George W. Bush once held, and it was very effective speech, and I agreed with every diphthong, and I have no idea how to feel about that.

We have seen our discourse degraded by casual cruelty. At times, it can seem like the forces pulling us apart are stronger than the forces binding us together. Argument turns too easily into animosity. Disagreement escalates into dehumanization. Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions – forgetting the image of God we should see in each other.


It’s hard to digest the phrase “degraded by casual cruelty” from a man on whose watch the United States formally became a nation that tortures people, and a man who willingly employed Karl Rove, and who accepted renomination in front of an audience wearing Purple Heart Band-Aids to mock John Kerry’s service in Vietnam. Also, too—Swift Boats.

America is experiencing the sustained attempt by a hostile power to feed and exploit our country’s divisions. According to our intelligence services, the Russian government has made a project of turning Americans against each other. This effort is broad, systematic and stealthy, it’s conducted across a range of social media platforms. Ultimately, this assault won’t succeed. But foreign aggressions – including cyber-attacks, disinformation and financial influence – should not be downplayed or tolerated. This is a clear case where the strength of our democracy begins at home. We must secure our electoral infrastructure and protect our electoral system from subversion.


Voter cadging. Purge lists. Florida, 2000 and Ohio, 2004.

Our identity as a nation – unlike many other nations – is not determined by geography or ethnicity, by soil or blood. Being an American involves the embrace of high ideals and civic responsibility. We become the heirs of Thomas Jefferson by accepting the ideal of human dignity found in the Declaration of Independence. We become the heirs of James Madison by understanding the genius and values of the U.S. Constitution. We become the heirs of Martin Luther King, Jr., by recognizing one another not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.


Warrantless wiretaps. Patriot Act. Military tribunals. Gitmo.

This speech is the sharpest point yet for those of us who have looked at big talkers like Bob Corker and Jeff Flake and Ben Sasse, who criticize the president* without actually opposing him on any significant issue. It is something of a dilemma for those of us who have been saying that the president* is not an aberration, but the inevitable result of conservative politics, and that the Republicans should not be allowed to pretend that he’s not. What Bush did today—give a speech—is pretty much all he can do at this point. But, still, what elected him twice were the same politics that elected the incumbent. All the latter did was turn up the volume by being more shameless, more incompetent, and infinitely more of an asshat.

So, do I applaud? Do I marinate in my cynicism and remember that this proud defender of American democracy lied the country into a foreign policy debacle that is still ongoing, and that is now overseen by someone who couldn’t find Iraq on a map…of Iraq? Of all the strange places that the last election has taken this country, this has to be one of the strangest. You have to watch every step. The past is clutching your feet here like poison vines camouflaged as the comforting tendrils of citizenship.
11 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Pierce: Do I Applaud This Speech from George W. Bush? (Original Post) babylonsister Oct 2017 OP
Selectively. And only for Ilsa Oct 2017 #1
You know I had the same thought malaise Oct 2017 #2
I don't think there is any redeeming, but perhaps babylonsister Oct 2017 #4
Not if I write it malaise Oct 2017 #5
I don't know, either, Charlie. GoCubsGo Oct 2017 #3
Damn, I know what he is talking about. cwydro Oct 2017 #6
I don't suffer from ambivalence re: Shrub. Solly Mack Oct 2017 #7
Of course if you agree with something, no matter who says it, you agree with the content, but that still_one Oct 2017 #8
Approve his words and what he hopes to accomplish, not him? Hortensis Oct 2017 #9
I tried watching him speak. Couldn't even stomach five minutes of it. robertpaulsen Oct 2017 #10
My translation of his speech drmeow Oct 2017 #11

Ilsa

(61,694 posts)
1. Selectively. And only for
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 07:14 PM
Oct 2017

the short term. We are fighting a common enemy. We can return to discussing the grosser details of W's failed presidency after we save the nation from trump, fascism, Putin, and neo-nazis.

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
6. Damn, I know what he is talking about.
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 07:28 PM
Oct 2017

The speech was great, and I agreed with it completely.

It scrambles my brain to know that.

Solly Mack

(90,762 posts)
7. I don't suffer from ambivalence re: Shrub.
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 07:30 PM
Oct 2017

War criminal. Unitary executive. Constantly lying. Constantly eroding civil rights.

His crimes and abuses and his getting away with his crime and abuses only served to help Trump be where he is now.

That along with conservative politics over the last several decades. Bush was a symptom every bit as much as Trump is - and like any untreated disease, it only gets worse.

No dilemma, no ambivalence - Bush wrong. Trump wrong.

A murderer doesn't make a rapist look better in contrast.




still_one

(92,164 posts)
8. Of course if you agree with something, no matter who says it, you agree with the content, but that
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 07:31 PM
Oct 2017

is not enough

For example, if trump came out with a proposal you agreed with, it is perfectly compatible to agree with that proposal, but at the same time be skeptical about his sincerity

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
9. Approve his words and what he hopes to accomplish, not him?
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 07:36 PM
Oct 2017

Me too. I was thinking of the quarter million or more people dead, and many more with lives dreadfully damaged, because of him during this speech. The dead will always be dead, but we still need all the calls to our individual and national goodness that we can get.

robertpaulsen

(8,632 posts)
10. I tried watching him speak. Couldn't even stomach five minutes of it.
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 07:49 PM
Oct 2017

Just listening to the sound of his voice brought back so many bad memories, many of which Pierce detailed.

Reading his speech, I agree. But I'm incapable of applauding. Having the worst presidency in our nation's history eclipsed by the next devolution of reich-wing knuckle-dragging is not something to applaud.

drmeow

(5,017 posts)
11. My translation of his speech
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 10:46 PM
Oct 2017

OMG - they were only supposed to be dog whistles! You're not supposed to go public with it like Trump has. If we don't convince people we didn't mean it despite spending 40 - 50 years milking it (and if the country survives) the Republican party is going to get screwed by this. Damage control!!! Damage control!!!

If I believed any of tRumps supporters would care or if this might change Congress I'd applaud. Without that my reaction is too little, too late!

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Pierce: Do I Applaud Th...