General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIMO, a draft without being called a draft, recalling a 1000 retired pilots.
I wonder how many have lost their edge?
Pope George Ringo II
(1,896 posts)But this is pretty similar to what we did with Korea and Vietnam, which is not the most reassuring thought I've had today. Still, I presume there are plans to train them up and spread them out. For reasons of both cost justification and quality, our first-day pilots at this point are flying F-22s, while the second-day pilots are flying F-35s, and we're not talking about much overlap between the recalls and either of those two, anyway.
It's concerning on several fronts, but I'm not too worried about sending the poor guys into a bloodbath.
FigTree
(347 posts)To aspiring commercial pilots: now is the time!
Irish_Dem
(45,640 posts)Pope George Ringo II
(1,896 posts)I could stand not to repeat those.
Irish_Dem
(45,640 posts)Many deaths and wounded. And the military industrial complex makes huge amounts of money.
Pope George Ringo II
(1,896 posts)Having that much trouble retaining personnel is a problem for any military, but given how the United States has been incapable of matching capabilities to requirements since the end of the Cold War, you doubt the ability to maintain low/medium-level conflicts or even react to occasional mobilizations.
Irish_Dem
(45,640 posts)Seems like the military should be up to speed with that kind of money.
Pope George Ringo II
(1,896 posts)A lot of the rest is disposable. Wars have seldom been a great investment but especially in the modern age are unbelievably expensive and wasteful. Staggering as that number is, the Navy has been getting a waiver every year for a couple of decades to run with an illegally small number of carriers, the air force's fleet is getting old, the marines are cannibalizing aircraft in smaller squadrons, the army's tank is 40 years old, we don't have enough troops to meet commitments and still rotate them out of combat zones enough, etc. In terms of infrastructure, we're still sorting our way through cyberwarfare, hypersonic weapons, directed-energy weapons, and the implications of big data on submarine warfare, so it's a little hard to sort out what the good investments are anyway. And don't get me started on the VA and its funding.
Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying we need to fund an army which can conquer the world; I'm saying we should match our expectations with our budget. If we don't want to pay for all those things, that's one thing and I'm fine with it--but we shouldn't send troops out there unprepared to die in never-ending pointless fights with broken-down junk. If we're going to risk their lives all over the world, we owe it to them to do it for a good reason and to do it with the best gear and training possible. Paying for a small bad military and burning it up acting like you have a big good military also tends to have foreign policy problems. Figure out what you want as a country and live with it. The US can't figure it out, though.
Irish_Dem
(45,640 posts)And if it did not go to military hardware, where did it go?
I agree with you, but believe that we should not have a huge military, and act accordingly as you say.
Pope George Ringo II
(1,896 posts)ammunition, maintenance, port fees, private contractors, private security, supplies of weapons for the local client forces, drone purchases, support for allies, bribes to local warlords, reconstruction of things our troops blew up on purpose, reconstruction of things our troops blew up accidentally, and I'm sure the list only gets longer.
A full list is available from the government, no doubt, but things like modernization and equipment were never part of the published cost of the war. Blowing things up gets expensive.
Irish_Dem
(45,640 posts)Seems like a nice racket for someone.
I wonder how much is out right theft. A friend of mine had a husband fighting in Iraq, he would come home on leave with his backpack full of US cash. Told her to keep quiet about it and hid it under the bed.
And I would never trust the government accounting of military expenditures. I don't think that there has ever been an accurate accounting of the Pentagon.
Pope George Ringo II
(1,896 posts)The Pentagon have to balance "We're being responsible" with "OMG! Would you look at that! We need more stuff!" The trick is figuring out which one you're getting and acting accordingly.
Irish_Dem
(45,640 posts)And it is as you say, some are responsible, some are not.
And some try to complain that the equipment they are buying is outdated and told to shut up and make the purchase.
Sneederbunk
(14,208 posts)RKP5637
(67,032 posts)Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)some time back,posted a story about the number of Military Retirements spiked after last November.
GoCubsGo
(32,061 posts)People are seeing the writing on the wall, and they are trying to avoid becoming cannon fodder.
RKP5637
(67,032 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)We are setting up for an all out war for starters with Iran even as we speak. Trump just signed an EO giving him the power to call up all retired military vets, no caps. He is planning on recalling 1000 aircraft pilots as well.
War is coming folks, it's right around the corner. Trump aint doing these things for shits and grins. Nuclear war in NK and the middle east simultaneously? Who knows. The MIC needs the blood of many more poor Americans trapped in the economic draft.
Trumps Iran Derangement
Roger Cohen OCT. 11, 2017
BERLIN If President Trump decertifies the Iran nuclear deal this week, as seems likely, it will show total disrespect for Americas allies, Wolfgang Ischinger, the former German ambassador to the United States, told me. Thats the least of it. This and I know competition is stiff would be the rashest, most foolish act of the Trump administration to date.
The presidents refusal to certify an accord his own defense secretary, James Mattis, says Iran is upholding, and is in the American national interest, would send a strong signal that the United States has become a bait-and-switch power whose word is worthless.
Its Americas word as solemn gage that has underwritten global security since 1945. Goodbye to all that.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/11/opinion/trump-iran-nuclear-deal.html
RKP5637
(67,032 posts)any respect left for America will be because none wants a bomb dropped on them, or have their hand out for money. It is absolutely disgraceful what this ass in the WH is getting away with. And, we have a useless 13% approval rating congress.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)If I understand it correctly..if the government falls to a low enough level, national elections are held right away.
We would be done with these world destroying pigs already but we are trapped for 4 years at least. The republican Congress will never impeach their fuhrer and Pence is a nightmare as well anyway.
Old Vet
(2,001 posts)This really bothers me if its true, And yes the DOD did the same shit during the 60s and 70s pulling retired pilots out for active duty. I flew with a lot of them, they were commissioned Warrant Officers.
bagelsforbreakfast
(1,427 posts)for democracy. It gives everyone skin in the game and might prevent more of these never-ending wars we're in.
Irish_Dem
(45,640 posts)Easier to keep a poor underclass who will jump at the chance to join the military.
Brother Buzz
(36,217 posts)"Even when they pissed me off, I had to admit there was something I liked about the draftees who didn't want to be there and made no bones about it. I like draftees in general, even with the attendant problems. Historically draftees have kept the military on the straight and narrow. By calling a spade a spade, they keep it clean. Without their "careers" to think about, they can't be easily bullied or intimidated as Regulars; their presence prevents the elitism that otherwise might allow a Regular army to become isolated from the values of the country it serves. Draftees are not concerned for the reputation of their employer, the Army (in Vietnam they happily blew the whistle an everything from phony valor awards to the secret bombings of Laos and Cambodia); a draftee, citizens' army, so much a part of the history of America, is an essential part of a healthy democracy, one in which everyone pays the price Of admission." - Colonel David Hackworth
Irish_Dem
(45,640 posts)Drug use, lack of discipline, a faulty mission and poor strategy. It was not a sustainable operation.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)exempted.
Or POS right wing traitors like Ted Nugent shit themselves and acted crazy and got out of it too.
karadax
(284 posts)Pilots want to fly ! They also want to learn to fly.
[link:http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/07/30/air-force-gets-creative-to-tackle-pilot-shortage.html|
Everhart said the Air Force stands potentially to lose 1,600 pilots who are eligible to separate from the service in the next four years.
He has been working with an AMC aviation retention task force for the past few months, trying to come up with recommendations as a result of airman feedback.
That feedback includes: Flying has become secondary to administrative duties; airmen desire more stability for themselves and their families; they lack support personnel; and they fear the impact of service politics on their career paths.
Airman feedback has resulted in one concrete move -- the removal of additional duties, a common complaint.
The training is a big bottleneck. It can be fixed.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)Sadly, while I don't like the solution, the root of the problem we can't dump on Trump in this case.
roamer65
(36,739 posts)If so, it just may be largest miscalculation in human history.
Irish_Dem
(45,640 posts)Carpet bombing the populace????
former9thward
(31,805 posts)Why would anyone care about bombing the populace?
Irish_Dem
(45,640 posts)Bagdad was over 50% women and children when we bombed the city with depleted uranium.
And Trump has increased civilian targets since he has been president.
former9thward
(31,805 posts)Why you skipped from Cheney to Trump I don't know. There were 8 long years of bombing and missile strikes in between. Someone was doing them and plenty of people died. Of course during those years the anti-war movement went into a shell and pretended nothing was happening.
Irish_Dem
(45,640 posts)Speculating what Trump might do in NK, what he is currently doing in the mideast, and what other GOP leaders have done in the past.
former9thward
(31,805 posts)The fact you don't want to recognize that is part of the problem.
spanone
(135,636 posts)Air Force could recall as many as 1,000 retired pilots to address serious shortage
By law, only 25 retired officers can be brought back to serve in any one branch. Trump's order removes those caps by expanding a state of national emergency declared by President George W. Bush after 9/11, signaling what could be a significant escalation in the 16-year-old global war on terror.
"We anticipate that the Secretary of Defense will delegate the authority to the Secretary of the Air Force to recall up to 1,000 retired pilots for up to three years," Navy Cdr. Gary Ross, a Pentagon spokesman, said in a statement.
But the executive order itself is not specific to the Air Force, and could conceivably be used in the future to call up more officers and in other branches.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/10/20/air-force-recall-many-1-000-retired-pilots-address-serious-shortage/785344001/
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)Their service was over & went out to build lives for themselves. Guess this means, once you are in the military, you can always be uprooted. The military really tried hard to recruit my daughter, who is a doctor, and trained in PTSD. The salary and benefits, including forgiving student loans, were really good. They told her she would just be working in VA hospitals. I was thinking that she should. TG she declined.