3 F'ing things. First, there's an old saying in the Army...

[underpants]

First, there's an old saying in the Army - a civilian outranks a General.
Second, Kelly isn't a General anymore. He WAS a General, I WAS 21 years old but neither of us are either anymore.

So shut your damned mouth Huckabee Sanders.

Lastly, I thought Trump had "the best words". He thinks he so damned smart but Kelly had to tell him what to say? Who the hell doesn't know that when someone suffers a loss that you convey empathy and compassion no matter how that is communicated? In person, on a phone call, or in writing. Hell, my daughter knows that and she's not even a teenager yet.

My family has had two families close to us suffer horrible losses in the last month. One was the person who used to run the daycare my daughter went to. Her husband was diagnosed with cancer and died 40 days later. We went to the visitation (couldn't make the funeral) and after waiting over an hour - he was a hell of a guy - we each said "We're so sorry" and hugged the widow. We did sort of the same thing with each of the three kids.

Our neighbors just lost their 6 week old grandson. The kid never had a chance. Did we say that when we went over to their house? Of course not. We hugged them at let them know how we felt for them. We took care of their dog while they went out of town for the funeral.

Who the fuck doesn't know how to do that? We're just normal people who know how to behave in basic situations and show some common decency.

He's had to have had friends or contemporaries or employees who've suffered losses. He can't make a phone call by himself? He doesn't know how to fucking behave. Fuck him. Fuck them. And shut your fucking mouth Sarah.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Sad. Anybody with an ounce of humanity in their heart

would be able to come up with some words of sympathy that didn't sound fake, stupid or insensitive. Sometimes "I'm sorry for your loss" is enough because you're acknowledging the person's grief - sometimes that's all that's needed or expected. You cared enough to express your sympathy, and that means something to the person receiving it. It can be "hard" in the sense that being in the presence of another person's grief can be really uncomfortable and saddening - at least, to people with souls - but it's something everybody has to do from time to time, and the words should not be hard to figure out.

And here's another thing. Trump said the other day that he'd already contacted most of the families of soldiers who'd died since he took office. That this was a lie was established by the discovery of emails between WH staff and the DoD that were sent the day he made that statement, in which the WH was frantically trying to get all those names and contact info so they could contact the families and make it look like Trump hadn't lied. But there's more proof he was lying, and right from Kelly's own mouth: He said Trump said something like "he knew what he was getting into" because Kelly told him that's the sort of expression that was used among military people when someone was killed. Just apart from the fact that an expression like that might be appropriate between two military men but not at all when said to a young widow, the fact that Trump asked Kelly what to say to Sgt. Johnson's widow because he didn't know how to handle these calls proves that he'd never contacted any other family before!

And, of course - as you said - he shouldn't have had to ask how in the first place.

[workinclasszero]

3. Trump is a sociopath

We have a sociopath in charge.

so·ci·o·path
noun
a person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience.

[pandr32]

67. I will go one further: Psychopath

Dr. Robert Hare made the distinction that sociopaths and psychopaths are different in that sociopaths are lacking due to their socialization (certainly DT's father's racism and opportunism socialized DT), while psychopaths are incapable of moral reasoning and empathy no matter their socialization--that it is psychological behavior more than antisocial behavior. DT is a remorseless predator (sexually and in business/fraud) who is prone to violence (he used to brawl as a younger man, has been accused of rape, incites violence constantly still). He used undue influence over his father who suffered from dementia to cut his brother's family out of his father's will. He exhibited "early conduct disorder" and his exasperated parents sent him to military school to hopefully correct his behavior and sadistically left his own disabled nephew with no medical care. He has selfishly plowed through his life leaving people destitute and dazed. He makes his own rules as he goes and his only concern is for himself.

I have no doubt that if DT had not been reared in enormous privilege he would have had a long rap sheet and likely be in prison--maybe for life.

Certainly, anti-social behavior is also part of psychopathy.

DT is likely worse than people think.

[underpants]

14. About "he knew...."

Not arguing but I was trying to keep the OP sort of short.

The mention of the child not having a chance was a reference to "he knew...". The child was a preemie. 1 pound at birth - life support from second 1. Our neighbors were aware of that and they knew what was going to happen but we didn't bring it up. It would have sounded like a brush off, an "oh well". They'd suffered a horrible loss. THEY actually sort of said it without saying it. We didn't nod or confirm it we hugged them again.

Trump is amazingly bad at everything. We thought W, who actually came off as statesmanlike this week, came up with new ways to be horrible but he didn't stomp on his mistakes and then pee on them and THEN claim victory.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

19. I thought it might be something like that.

A sad story; and not saying to the parents anything suggesting that they knew what was going to happen was exactly the right way to talk to them - and parallels what Trump did do and shouldn't have. You knew it would be insensitive but obviously Trump didn't.

And your comment about W is right on, too. As a president he sucked hard enough to bend light, but even he seemed to have an occasional flash of humanity - he had pets and seemed to care about his kids and didn't go out of his way to say gratuitously cruel things - and there did seem to be some lines he wouldn't cross. But Trump seems to be trying to be as horrible as possible, to do everything imaginable, or even unimaginable, that most people would consider disgusting, uncivilized, and downright evil. W was a garden-variety neocon with a mediocre intellect, not much imagination, and a pathetic willingness to be led around by the nose by Dick Cheney. Fucking Trump is the fucking Antichrist.

[underpants]

33. he sucked hard enough to bend light

[dhol82]

55. +1

[Hekate]

52. Poetically rendered

[mgardener]

65. My son was a preemie

He would have been 34 this year.
It was a horrible time and we had to make the decision to remove him from life support.
We hoped he would die a peaceful death but that did not happen.
One of the hardest things to hear was a nurse that would say several times a shift, I am praying your son will live.
I know she meant well. BUT it was a terrible thing to hear, as I his mom was praying he would die peacefully.
It taught me a lesson on what to say and what not to say. And to listen to the person grieving.

Trump did not listen to the advice given him. But, I would expect nothing less from a man who thinks he knows everything, knows very little and shows no empathy for others.

[malaise]

2. He didn't evn known their fucking names

I mean jebus effin' krist!

[Grammy23]

5. Yes, and it would have been so simple to have the young mans name, rank

and a few personal bits of information right in front of him on a note pad. A simple statement of sorrow and thanking the family for their sacrifice could have led him into a short but appropriate conversation with any of the family members. That is, IF tRump was a normal human being. But he is NOT.

How can you live to be 71 and not have lost someone in your life who meant something to you so you have an inkling of how these families feel? Well, you can’t. In tRump’s case, he is lacking the human touch. Lacking in the ability to feel sorrow and angst. His joy, what little he has is always short lived, as he searches for the next thing to give him a high. No, the only emotion he can show and hold on to is anger. Pure, unadulterated rage is his forte.

No wonder he needs coaching. He is the empty barrel Kelly was talking about.

[malaise]

9. That is how professionals in all spheres behave

He is not fit for office.
He genuinely believes he is the most important person on the planet and folks should be grateful that he called. He disgusts me.

[SammyWinstonJack]

61. He's unfit for being human.

[monmouth4]

10. Exactly. He should have had a double-spaced script to read with that info on it and none of this

chaos would have happened. Doesn't he have a secretary or someone that sees what needs to be done?

[Delmette2.0]

31. It's called protocol.

Isn't there a WH office of protocol? They would have been the ones to gather detailed information so the person in the Oval Office doesn't fuck up.
Wait, I know Dumpster didn't need no Protocol office telling him how to talk or behave to other people.

[Grammy23]

43. I was talking to my husband about this at dinner tonight.

One thing that Kelly didn’t remind tRump about and tRump is too dumb to know is that there are cultural differences to take into consideration, too. Even different regions of the country have differences in what is considered normal and proper. What he said and HOW he said it might have definitely been the source of the feeling of disrespect the family indicated they felt.

In the town where I live, it is routine to pull over and stop for a funeral procession passing by. New comers often violate this custom and are confused when it happens. Letters to our newspaper regularly carry stories about whether to continue the tradition or not. Those who have had it this way as long as they can remember are adamant that it is disrespectful not to pull over and stop.

There are different ethnic and class customs that can trip you up if you are not familiar with them. When my husband and I travel out of the US, we try to learn about the places we will visit so we do not inadvertently insult someone or make (unknowingly) an obscene gesture. It is just common sense and good manners to do that.

There are people available to tRump to help him avoid insulting or denigrating someone unintentionally. But he is too arrogant and pigheaded to take advantage of their services. He will continue to do and say inappropriate things due to this trait. Remember the offhand remark he made to the wife of the President of France, commenting on what “good shape she was in”? That was so wrong and in bad taste. He also was glancing up and down, ogling her like a prize cow. But leave it to tRump to say exactly the wrong thing within range of the microphones.

So we can expect more insults and slights from him. Seems like he manages to do that on a regular basis. Furthermore, he could not care less. He is already at zero.

[Delmette2.0]

46. You said this so much better than I did.

I grew up is rural Montana and I remember pulling over for funerals. People in big cities don't have time to stop for a funeral let alone an emergency vehical.

Trump will not change and everyone was given a front row seat to his behavior. Most of us were repelled by him and can't wait for this llng nightmare to be over.

[maddiemom]

71. Although hardly anyone else took his remark to the French first lady as having anything to do with

age, she is, while lovely, considerably older than her husband. The "great shape" ravings were crass enough by themselves, but in using those particular words, I couldn't help cringing at what I felt went, thankfully unspoken: "for your age..."

[Grammy23]

72. I kinda thought the same thing.

There is a significant difference in their ages. tRump obviously was having a hard time suppressing the urge to notice the age difference and the fact that she was still standing and not using a walker! LOL. In typical tRumpian fashion, he HAD to comment on what good shape she was in. But I think it was the leering look he gave her as he looked her over head to toe that was just disgusting. He just can’t seem to stop judging women and assigning a number to how they rank in his mind. Maybe people need to start doing that to HIM. Not that he would get it that he is just getting payback.

[smirkymonkey]

73. Yes, very good post on this topic!

The man completely lacks any kind of social or situational awareness. I don't know if it is out of ignorance or arrogance - he thinks he is above the rules - but it is not a good quality for a world leader to possess. He's just so awful in every way. How he got to be this old without ever having had the living crap beat out of him is a mystery to me.

[maddiemom]

70. Has anyone ever seen him spontaneously LAUGH...

in a genuinely heartfelt way (certainly never at himself)? Or even smile, without just looking smug? He's apparently never had a pet, and although I've known some very nice, kind people who don't "get" having animals around, that still says a lot. Even Nixon had Checkers, and Dubya was obviously attached to Barney. We laughed about his (Bush) being a faux rancher and obviously being afraid of horses, then, again, Reagan really could ride. Having absolutely no affinity for other living creatures shows a lack of humanity. I love the clip where a bald eagle attacks Trump. There could be no better symbolism.

[underpants]

26. 3x5 card

With the basics. Take 5 minutes so the names are familiar and then make the call.

Trump was trying to go back in time (2 weeks) and his staffing is insufficient and lacking.

Without getting into details, we had a situation at work yesterday. I handed a fellow employee keys to a company car and a slip of paper with a phone number and address. I then explained exactly where they needed to go. That's local knowledge but I provided them with the info they needed.

[malaise]

44. Precisely

I'm an index card queen

[StrictlyRockers]

4. The man does not have one empathetic bone in his body.

He completely missed out on the empathy gene. Sociopath is accurate. Sadist is also apt.

[demigoddess]

66. not just lack of empathy but he probably thought the grieving families would be so happy

to hear his voice, he didn't have to be careful what he said. And he likes to wing it because he thinks he is just so great and can do everything so great, that he needs no preparation.

[lark]

6. Might I add,

Shut the fuck up with your lying racist BS Kelly! Quit channeling your lying orange criminal assaulter and act like a man, not a sniveling pretender.

[bronxiteforever]

7. Thank you-k & r

[ProudLib72]

8. Honestly, he should just keep his gob shut

If you can't say something nice...

We all know that he cannot, for the life of him, say anything nice to anyone at any time (unless that person has publicly praised him first). So he should be gagged for the remainder of his term.

[Qutzupalotl]

11. What does that old saying mean?

...that a civilian outranks a General. I’m not sure how to interpret that. Can you unpack that for me?

[underpants]

18. Service

The Army serves the civilian population.

Enough ?

[Qutzupalotl]

45. OK

It sounds like a saying that only those who have served should use. Since I haven’t, it seemed counterintuitive and strange. It would never occur to me to say something like that. Thanks for the explanation.

[mopinko]

12. hell, i am a hospice volunteer. you know the thing that gets the least

attention in training? what to say.
i have taken part in many training session. people always start out wondering what to say. but you ask them what they think they should say, and pretty much everything that comes out of their mouths is just fine.
sometimes old timers will share a favorite phrasing, but shit. nobody says anything flat out stupid or offensive.

obviously these are people compassionate enough to take on being hospice volunteers. people who actually give a shit about saying something stupid. iow, human.

ffs this man is so brain damaged.

[underpants]

20. No staffing and bad staffing.

Aside from knowing what to just normally say. You give him a 3x5 card with the basics. Actual Execs get a briefing page for a simple phone call.

[True Dough]

32. +1 for hospice volunteering

Sometimes the most important thing is just being there. Be a sounding board. Be an attentive listener. Be supportive and compassionate.

Sometimes it's difficult not to reach for the trite platitudes and cliches -- although I always advise people to avoid "He/she is in a better place" -- but mostly I just let them know I care and hear them out.

[mopinko]

35. yup. holding space.

i take my dog, and he is so sneaky the way he gets people to open up.

[True Dough]

39. +2 for "dog therapy"

Did he go through therapy dog training, or does he just possess the right disposition and he's not really in need of training.

I have a five-year-old German shepherd/English mastiff mix. His size makes him a little intimidating but he's the friendliest fellow in the world. Unfortunately he's full of early-onset arthritis, but that also means he's not rambunctious. I think he could brighten a lot of people's days -- actually, I know he does just from taking in on walks -- but I haven't tried bringing into any hospice wards or long-term care settings.

[mopinko]

47. the hospital i work at requires certification

but it is basically simple canine good citizenship and temperament. he is a great combination of friendly and mellow. he is an 85 lb bully dog. he intimidates a few people, but mostly people love him.
mostly nursing homes are less picky. we also have volunteers who do in home visits where certification isnt a big deal.

he really loves his job. and it really is amazing how he puts people at ease. talk about holding space.
and then every once in a while, he just blows it away, connecting to someone who isnt otherwise reachable.

it really is super rewarding work.

[WinkyDink]

13. Your operative word therein is "normal." Trump is the antithesis. Thus, Bob's your uncle!

[Ilsa]

15. When you are grieving, hurting, there may be exceptional things that

get said by someone, usually with experience. But anything along the lines of, "I'm so sorry this has happened," is appreciated.

No wonder kelly said he told him not to call. Kelly knows how pathological DOTUS is.

[iluvtennis]

16. Well said! Trump doesn't have any human compassion or empathy...that's why he

doesn't know how to give condolences. It's amazing to me that someone can live on this earth 71 years and not have feelings of compassion and empathy. He's a sad, very sad person.

[mercuryblues]

36. He doesn't even know how to fake it

He should have at least learned how to fake empathy by now.

[Kingofalldems]

17. This guy is coming after YOU:

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

21. Jesus God, have you ever seen such dead eyes??

[Kingofalldems]

22. Halloween mask.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

25. Not even Halloween masks are that scary

because the mask wearer's real eyes would be visible through the eye holes; and unless the mask wearer is Steve Miller, they'd probably look normal.

[csziggy]

58. Yes - in sharks

"Another thing about a shark is it has got lifeless eyes, black eyes, like a doll's eyes..."

[CTyankee]

60. As dead as Melania's...must be contact with that pig...

[smirkymonkey]

23. Gaaah!

Now I am going to have nightmares all weekend.

[druidity33]

24. That image is weirdly photoshopped. nt.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

27. I don't think so. He really does look like that.

It's doubtful that all of these google images have been photoshopped. https://www.google.com/search?q=stephen+miller&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwin_bK86YLXAhWK6YMKHXUYCGQQ_AUIDCgD&biw=1157&bih=615

[BumRushDaShow]

30. Here it is from CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/15/politics/kfile-stephen-miller-terrorism-awareness/index.html

[underpants]

34. he's got... lifeless eyes, black eyes, like a doll's eyes.

he's got... lifeless eyes, black eyes, like a doll's eyes. When he comes at ya, doesn't seem to be livin'.

[druidity33]

37. that's why it's weird...

It is very slightly different. Forehead enlarged maybe 10%... chin and mouth reduced maybe 15%. Could be because it's a video still. Pulled from a 720p feed?

[BumRushDaShow]

40. But if you look at images of him in the video

he has the same Herman Munster head.

[csziggy]

59. Here is the shot from ABC which seems to be the original

I resized, straightened ,and overlapped with the image above. There is a bit of Photoshopping - The forehead was not significantly changed but you are correct, the lower part of the face is slightly reduced. When the eyes are lined up the collar is 47 pixels higher in the photoshopped image than in the original.

Even in the original he has dead eyes - that was NOT photoshopped!

[druidity33]

74. i have experience with photo...

I have done some digital work and i have excellent visual acuity. I have a BA in Photography. There was obviously something about the picture that didn't match the person. i didn't want to do the work to figure out what. Thank you for proving what i was saying. I can see how that might have been a "between frames" still though, not a "shopped" picture. The eyes were of course the same.

[BumRushDaShow]

28. You know what's bizarre?

I actually blurted out - "Is that Miller"? And I was right!

I really haven't seen many stories about him that show his picture - just heard his name and read about his craven belief system in association with Grim Reaper. He is what Grim Reaper left behind.

[Kittycow]

56. He would be perfect for an episode of Criminal Minds.

[Thomas Hurt]

29. Trump only has the best words for fellating himself...

[kairos12]

38. Psychopaths need to be given emotional responses.

[Nasruddin]

41. He got it

Perhaps Kelly was trying to coach Trump's responses, and Trump garbled it.

Usually, successful sociopaths or psychopaths have this down long before they're 70!
It's not such a difficult thing and they are usually pretty good at sizing other
people up and learning what the useful things to say and do are.
They don't come by their reputation for charisma purely genetically.
Maybe this really was such a strange new situation for DJT that he didn't
have a human race script ready.

Perhaps DJT is too limited at this point in his life, or he was too angry at
feeling forced to make this call, and he made a hash of whatever Kelly
was trying to do with him.

The gift to us is we learned who and what Kelly is.

[Skittles]

49. excellent analyisis

spot on

[UTUSN]

42. Rec #72 for, excellent in content and expression

[Skittles]

48. Trump has never been able to even mimic normal human behavior

he truly is pathetic

[davsand]

50. He had several days to formulate an idea of what to say to that family.

It isn't like he got handed the phone and had to make that call. He had quite a while to come up with something to say and never did it. He's not terribly bright nor is he quick on his feet mentally. He can always formulate an attack or a deflection (Look! It's Haley's Comet!) but he never quite manages to pull off a sympathetic or even normal human response when he needs to. Appearing human is tough for him. The rest of the planet has the ability to offer up at least a minimally sympathetic response to loss in the form of an I'm sorry to hear of your loss, or My deepest sympathies to you, but that is clearly beyond his ability.

Something else at work here is that he's not terribly bright. By all accounts, Kelly fed him a reasonable and fairly respectable response to use and all he could manage was a couple phrases from that. Sadly, what he did manage to retain was not the comforting part of Kelly's instructions, but given his own lack of compassion it was slightly more defensible than his own words probably would have been. Remember, Kelly originally suggested trump NOT call, and given past attempts at letting the rotting mango out without a script, a teleprompter, and a leash, it is pretty easy to see why.

Just my opinion here, but I honestly think he's a sociopath and he's stupid along with it. That's dangerous in combination.



Laura

[PJMcK]

69. He had more than two weeks (n/t)

[SergeStorms]

51. "We're just normal people".......

and there's the rub. Donald J. Trump is anything BUT normal! Trump has never thought about other people, because the main concern for Donald Trump IS Donald Trump. Being a sociopathic narcissist forbids him from having any empathy for others. He actually believes his well being sets the tone for all others. If he's fine, everyone is fine, so there's no need for things like 'feelings', or 'empathy' for others. His ego is the driving force in his life, and therefore in everyone's life.

If you asked Trump, he'd tell you that he's the real victim here! How can you possibly reach someone who's so caught up in himself?

[pansypoo53219]

53. fuckabee jr.

[The Wizard]

54. The operative words:

"We're just normal people who know how to behave in basic situations and show some common decency. " Neither Trump, nor Sanders nor Republicans are "normal people." They're radical crackpots who are on a jihad against normal Americans. It's a cult, and the sooner we start using that language to define them the better . It is a toxic parasitic death cult that must be removed from the political landscape, a festering open sore that must be excised forthwith. We do not have the luxury of letting these monsters destroy the country.

[underpants]

57. Cult45

Is an expression I've read here. It seems to be spot on.

[madokie]

62. Thank you

for your service to our fellow human race.

For your caring and compassion for this family and friend

The difference between you and yours is yah are good people where as tRump is a cretin with no and I mean NO redeemable good qualities.

Peace

[underpants]

63. :-)

It's what normal humans do.

[madokie]

64. Yes it is

tRump is not NORMAL in any way, shape or fashion.

[MrModerate]

68. Common decency is exceedingly uncommon in this White House. n/t

[sl8]

75. I'm pretty sure that retired Generals are Generals, not that it really matters.

Generals, retired or not, are as fallible as anyone else.

The "old Army saying" that "a civilian outranks a General" strikes me as pretty odd. Certainly a few civilians, in the chain of command, outrank any General - is that what the saying is meant to convey? It doesn't mean that that any civilian outranks any General, correct? To the best of my knowledge, we didn't have a similar saying in the Navy.

I do agree with your opinion of Sander's & Trump's behaviors.

[underpants]

76. Any civilian outranks any General

It's a saying to convey your place in the order.

[sl8]

78. That doesn't make sense to me.

Civilian control of the military is something that was stressed in (Navy) boot camp, and, I'm pretty sure, in high school as well, but that's a far cry from saying that the gas station attendant outranks any flag officer.

I'm trying not to be pedantic, but I think we might have different definitions of the term "outrank".

[underpants]

79. Gas pumpers outrank Generals

"Service" they serve.

Mattie had to get a special act of Congress to serve asDefense Secretary because he hadn't been out long enough.

[nolabear]

77. Every indication says 45 mimics being human. He quotes others.

You hear it on Fox and then he says it. Kelly tells him what was said to him and he repeats it. He doesn’t seem to know anything about the emotional connection or the impact, the way an empathic human being would.

Kelly, now, he may suffer from having his assholery revealed but he does have feelings somewhere within the realm of human, even if I find them odious.