The Hatred of North Korea for the U.S. is Understandable..

[busterbrown]

Last edited Wed Oct 25, 2017, 07:16 PM - Edit history (1)

The horrendous carpet bombing of North Korean Cites killed Hundreds of Thousands Civilians..
Just recently read an article concerning the massive effort which North Koreans made to rebuild much of their infrastructure underground. Perhaps up to hundreds of feet... It's understandable especially that up to 2 million Civilians might have perished during the war..

This post is not to excuse the current North Korean Govt. But I for one, never fully understood why North Korea is so belligerent towards our country today... and I must say that North Korea certainly reeked havoc on South Korea..

But again, it is important to fully understand the genesis of of the hate between the 2 countries..

If any of you have additional info about this ...please post.


https://theintercept.com/2017/05/03/why-do-north-koreans-hate-us-one-reason-they-remember-the-korean-war/

[Dreamer Tatum]

1. Poor, misunderstood North Korea. nt

[busterbrown]

2. Yea loosing over 20% of their population?

No Big Deal....Nice!

[Dreamer Tatum]

3. You might study their role with the Chinese in the Korean War

before you shed many more tears for them.

[Dreamer Tatum]

8. I'd say you should try harder

to educate yourself.

If you shed tears for humanity, you'd shed one for all the Koreans they and the Chinese killed.

[Adrahil]

4. Dude, seriously....

The North Koreans, egged on by the Soviets and Chinese initiated the war. What did they expect to happen?

Stop carrying water for the Kim's... they are are evil bastards.

[busterbrown]

7. " Carrying Water" Please

Trying to educate myself to a fuller extent....Is not "carrying water"..

[Adrahil]

47. There are lots of good books on the Korean War.

Pretty much all of them point out the aggression of the DPRK, and the support of the Soviets and Chinese.

You who we killed tons of? The Germans and Japanese. They don't hate us today (well, not until Trump, anyway). I wonder why that could be?

[busterbrown]

25. Forgot the post..

Gettin old and forgetful

https://theintercept.com/2017/05/03/why-do-north-koreans-hate-us-one-reason-they-remember-the-korean-war/

[Adrahil]

48. OFFS... Greenwald's patented "I hate America" rag? Nope. NT

[emulatorloo]

52. Greenwald's typical dishonest and disingenuous bullshit

People around DU see right through Glenn 'no evidence of Russian interference' Greenwald's propaganda these days.

You're not gonna have much success pedaling his crap here.

Greenwald, Assange's WikiLeaks, Russia Today "whataboutism", etc.

All of those propaganda outlets might have fooled folks a few years ago. Not anymore.

[Oneironaut]

6. It also happened almost 70 years ago.

Their “hatred” is stirred up by the leadership to keep power. North Korea has no strategic resources or importance to the US. It’s all a ruse.

In comparison, that’s almost the same time gap as between the 1980’s and world war 1, or now and world war 2. Holding a legitimate grudge that long would be laughably dumb.

[busterbrown]

9. Interesting?

So the humanity which Germany murdered and tortured is l"laughably dumb"?

[metalbot]

19. Let me ask some questions then....

Are you still mad at Japan for Pearl Harbor?

Are you still upset with Chancellor Merkel about what happened in Nazi Germany?

Does the mere sight of a Volkswagon trigger stress?

Is your anger at Germany and Japan kindled every day by propaganda on your government controlled media?

Do you live every day convinced that the Japanese may take revenge soon by nuking one of our cities?


Weird. Me neither.

Now, could you think of a similar set of questions that you could ask to a North Korean that would be just as batty, but to which they would answer "yes" to every one?

What do you think the key difference is?

[busterbrown]

24. Forgot the original Post!

Stupid Me....https://theintercept.com/2017/05/03/why-do-north-koreans-hate-us-one-reason-they-remember-the-korean-war/

[Kaleva]

20. We treat, until Trump took office, Germany as a ally and friend.

There is no grudge held against Germany although individuals who committed war crimes are still being brought to trial.

[yallerdawg]

10. "Why do Iranians hate us so much?"

Yes.

We have a record. We only have a ceasefire with North Korea, never a peace agreement.

Without context, how can we have diplomacy, negotiations?

Almost 70 years now and diplomacy doesn't work?

[tymorial]

13. We did force the Shah down their throats.

Overturning a democratically elected government.

[maxsolomon]

11. wreak, not reek.

big difference.

NK shouldn't exist, it was created by the USSR and, when almost conquered, rescued by the Red Chinese.

the citizens of NK would be infinitely better off under the SK regime and economy rather than a 3-generation dynasty of murdering sociopaths.

[tymorial]

12. Defending NK...

A country that starves it's people just so it can have nuclear weapons. A country headed by despots who have forced women into sexual slavery, have kidnapped foreign nationals and forced them to work for the NK government, have tortured and executed foreign people accusing them of espionage. A country that engages in propaganda to the point that Soviet Pravda was The New York Times. Give me a fucking break with this shit.

[yallerdawg]

16. We could help make their lives better.

I don't think threatening them with real nuclear annihilation adds to their quality of life.

[ClarendonDem]

29. What could we do

To improve their quality of life that their despot leader would accept?

[yallerdawg]

32. Part of the historic beef...

was when they agreed to freeze nuclear program and we reneged on the deal - exactly as we are doing with Iran.

We promised border security to the Ukraine to turn over all their nukes. Woops.

Give up nukes - like Saddam and Muammar.

We just don't have a good record. Ask Japan.

[ClarendonDem]

33. That didn't really answer my question

What can we do today to satisfy their despotic crazy leader? And none of this improves the lives of the average NK citizen.

[yallerdawg]

35. We have imposed crippling sanctions on the country...

rather than welcome them into the Family of Nations!

WE did that to THEM, not the government. It started when we kept ratcheting up the rules - just like Iran.

If we normalized relations and focused on the people, it would be a different world.

[ClarendonDem]

37. The entire world, through the UN, imposed those sanctions

Not just the US.

[yallerdawg]

42. We just ordered up a bunch more...

and are threatening countries which hedge on any of the sanctions.

We could change this entire dynamic if we wanted to.

[busterbrown]

18. Jesus.. Try reading the post again.

I clearly stated that I wanted to learn more concerning the genesis of hatred which North Korea has towards that.
Nothing fucking more! You sound like the typical conclusion jumper..

Obviously the writers of the article I posted certainly spent a bit of time on the subject.... You might want to respond to the piece
even though it's not current.

[metalbot]

22. You didn't post an article

At least not in your original post. Did you forget to add a link?

When you argue that "North Korea has a good reason for hating the US, and that reason is that 65 years ago we killed a lot of Koreans", and then argue that "I'm just trying to learn", and then get offended when people tell you facts that might counter your premise, that doesn't sound like you are "trying to learn more".

[busterbrown]

28. Wow.... I forgot my post..

Trying to clear it up... Probably too late,,

https://theintercept.com/2017/05/03/why-do-north-koreans-hate-us-one-reason-they-remember-the-korean-war/

[Wounded Bear]

36. You can edit the post and add the link...

[Not Ruth]

14. Why doesnt Japan hate the US?

Or do they?

[jberryhill]

51. Its not institutionally nurtured the way it is in DPRK

Whatever the reasonableness or lack thereof.

[sarisataka]

15. North Korea invaded South Korea

With Stalin's permission after US troops pulled out of South Korea in 1950. When the US left, they did not provide the South Korean military with tanks or combat aircraft. That was intended to assure the north that the South Korean military was purely defensive and no threat to them. Both Stalin and Kim il-sung believed the United States would not return to defend South Korea. That was a serious miscalculation on their part.

If North Korea can hold a near 70-year grudge, it is also fair to doubt any of their statements of peaceful intent.

[busterbrown]

21. Let me ask you a question?

70 years is not that long....Certainly Holocaust Survivors wouldn't think so..

Again my post is not about defending N.K. Only trying to understand their point of view

[metalbot]

23. Fair point

Holocaust survivors experienced something horrible at the hands of Nazi Germany during WW II. And you're right, it wasn't that long ago. There are living survivors of concentration camps who have every right to be pissed off at what happened to them. I have friends who work at making sure that the world never ever forgets what happened in the Holocaust.

And yet somehow, Israeli radio and TV don't constantly bombard the Jewish population of Israel with anti-German messages. Why do you think there might be a difference between the point of view of North Korea and Israel?

[busterbrown]

26. Forgot the link...

Kind of ruined my point...https://theintercept.com/2017/05/03/why-do-north-koreans-hate-us-one-reason-they-remember-the-korean-war/

[ClarendonDem]

40. Do the Vietnamese also hate us?

For the more recent war?

[sarisataka]

27. No it was not that long ago

I have spoken with quite a few Korean war vets.

I do not object to trying to understand the North Korean point of view, actually I am quite in favor of understanding one's adversary. However in attempting to gain understanding I do not believe we should overlook the proximate cause of the war, that is North Korean aggression.

[ClarendonDem]

30. Their point of view

Is preserving Kim's power, that's it.

[Not Ruth]

31. Armenians have held a grudge against the Turks for 100 years

[Nevernose]

43. The North Koreans see it very differently, though

In that they “invaded” in the exact same way the northern portion of the United States physically invaded the southern portion in 1861.

I’m not saying that’s accurate, mind you, but that’s totally irrelevant, isn’t it? That’s their perception of events.

I think it’s far more accurate to say that after decades of foreign oppression and colonization, the Koreans gained their independence in the modern age. During that naturally-tumultuous time, two rival superpowers took advantage of the people of Korea to have a proxy war.

[Kaleva]

17. We did the same to Germany and Japan. They don't hate us.

And what you are talking about is the Korean leadership and not the common citizens who have to express hatred and anger towards the US lest they are imprisoned or executed.

[malaise]

34. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Not many want the truth - bullies rule.

[ClarendonDem]

39. What's the truth?

That we don't want?

[malaise]

41. The truth is that the US thinks it dictates to the rest of the planet

Do what it wants or face its terror while being called terrorist. The crusade bullshit is neat

[Calculating]

46. Oh yeah, WE'RE the bad guys here.

Little Kim will have 3 whole generations of a dissident's family sent to concentration camps to be starved, tortured, used in weapons testing, and to have medical experiments conducted on them. He had his own half brother assassinated in an airport with a WMD(VX nerve agent). He spends nearly the entire GDP on weapons so he can threaten the world, and meanwhile his people are starving to the point where cannibalism is becoming common place in NK. He has people who offend him fed to dogs or shot with AAA pieces. He has teen girls dragged from schools to be his sex slaves. By all means, let's work with the poor misunderstood guy.

[emulatorloo]

53. Well said.

[malaise]

55. And what has the US done to African-Americans

for centuries.
What have you done in other countries including illegal invasions, occupations, bombing the shit out of Japan, napalming Vietnam, killing leaders you don't like.

Why because like the British imperialists before you, you loot, plunder and kill at will to steal our resources while speaking about your fugging virtues. Heal thy fugging self and get back to me.

The rest of the planet has had it.

[Crunchy Frog]

38. The NK government does not reflect NK popular sentiment.

This is the major fallacy behind this sort of post. The NK leadership is effectively completely divorced from the rest of the NK population, and there effectively is no public opinion.

The belligerence of North Korea is a reflection of an insane and completely out of touch leadership that wasn't even born when the war happened. Their leaders are even more crazy and out of touch than our own, who at least have a large population of crazy people in our own country to draw the crazy from.

Almost nobody in either country even remembers the war.

Sorry about the screed, but I get kind of annoyed at this kind of projection.

[Igel]

44. I don't know how to have the information to buttress this claim.

I know that if you consider another Stalinist dictatorship--namely the USSR under Stalin, sort of the prototype--you'd find that Stalin was massively popular and the agitprop widely believed.

Was it universal? Of course not. Enough were, and those were vocal enough, that a spiral of silence existed to keep those who objected to Stalin from speaking up. Even among opponents, however, the agitprop was, for the most part, believed. You may not have supported Stalin, but there was still little doubt that the West as out to get them and had supported Hitler.

There are certainly attested examples of people who didn't support Stalin and didn't believe the agitprop, but there's no reason to think that they were anything but a small minority. It's easy to take the voices most likely to be cited in the West--those who had Western contacts--and overgeneralize them.

[Crunchy Frog]

49. I appreciate your point,

but still feel like we're comparing apples and oranges. I mainly feel that NK is orders of magnitude beyond anything the USSR managed, even at its lowest point.

I do agree that Stalin had a level of genuine popularity. He ruled for a fraction of the time that the Kim Dynasty has ruled NK, including during a major war on native soil; pretty much guaranteed to boost popularity. That level of totalitarianism did not survive Stalin's death. By the Brezhnev era, the Soviet population had become pretty cynical and skeptical.

I believe that the machinery of totalitarianism in NK runs circles around anything in the SU. It would have to in order to sustain that level of fanatical devotion for that length of time. I'm not saying that the subjects don't buy the agitprop, only that there's practically no free will in the equation. Not even to the degree that there was under Stalin in the SU. The North Koreans believe what they're told to believe because they pretty much have no say in the matter.

Disclaimer, I spent a number of years studying the Soviet Union, and Russian history as a whole, including during the period in the late 80's when the system was collapsing. I confess that I'm not as informed about North Korea, so I'm open to correction if I've gotten anything wrong.

[Calculating]

45. sure let's work with the evil bastard Kim

Little Kim will have 3 whole generations of a dissident's family sent to concentration camps to be starved, tortured, used in weapons testing, and to have medical experiments conducted on them. He had his own half brother assassinated in an airport with a WMD(VX nerve agent). He spends nearly the entire GDP on weapons so he can threaten the world, and meanwhile his people are starving to the point where cannibalism is becoming common place in NK. He has people who offend him fed to dogs or shot with AAA pieces. He has teen girls dragged from schools to be his sex slaves. By all means, let's work with the poor misunderstood guy.

[Crunchy Frog]

50. Yes, but he was so traumatized by his grandad's war

that ended 30 years before he was born. Try to have a little more sympathy.

[LexVegas]

54. Bull fucking shit. nt