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Locut0s

(6,154 posts)
Wed Oct 25, 2017, 09:06 PM Oct 2017

We need to have a global discussion about the influence of technology on democracy...

The pace of technological progress has long far outstripped the progress of our political institutions. Most of us are aware of this fact. The law for example is years behind when it comes to our digital rights and freedoms even though our offline activities are usually relatively well addressed. Simply going online to do the exact same things you might feel comfortable doing in person posses risks that we often too frequently ignore.

But the risks now are spreading to more than just our personal privacy. We need to have a serious discussion before we find that we have no idea how our democracies and cultures are even run anymore.

There is a good argument to be made that we are already there. We all know the decades long battle we have been fighting, and losing, in keeping private money out of politics. Most of politics these days is funded by business.

But what we are seeing now is more fundamental, and potentially much more dangerous. Before the digital age, your sources of news were relatively few. Television, newspapers, and word of mouth. Yes these were businesses as well. But they were at least somewhat transparent in their motives and operation. Now we get our news through a million and one digital sources and increasingly through social media. Aggregations of aggregations. The danger is, we don't know what we are not seeing.

For example just take Facebook as an example. All of us know that Facebook doesn't show us all of our friends posts. They have an algorithm that picks and chooses what we get to see. These algorithms are closely held secrets and are at the heart of EVERYTHING we interact with on the web. They are of course first and foremost designed to maximize the profit of the corporations that run the social media platforms. Beyond that we don't know. It's all a black box.

Of course they ARE necessary. Without them we would drown in a sea of information.

We already know that social media echo chambers play an increasing role in deciding elections. And increasingly they play a role in the very knowledge that we have access to. Every time you do a search, every time you open a social media platform what is presented to you is filtered through totally opaque algorithms that are designed as much to maximize profits as they are to be efficient and show the results you want.

Also. Remember those last two words are important, what "you want". These algorithms are designed to confirm our biases, because doing so makes us happier, and happier people are easier to market to. But when you filter out the stuff you don't want to necessarily see you end up not knowing what you don't know.

The danger is not only that algorithms end up choosing presidents, but that they also end up choosing everything else as well.

What defined the 60s and 70s? The hippie movement, disco, bell bottom jeans among other things. What defined any decade? Sure advertising played a role in all of this. But it was also quite an organic and messy emergent phenomenon. What we see now is that what could come to define a decade now in terms of pop culture, trends, fads, and tastes could be chosen by algorithms for us that we don't understand.

We need to have a public discussion about the dangers of having so much power concentrated in the "hands" or "processors" of so few organizations. And so much of it being black boxes.

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We need to have a global discussion about the influence of technology on democracy... (Original Post) Locut0s Oct 2017 OP
we do need to catch up! KT2000 Oct 2017 #1
That is true. Though I don't feel it has to be the case... Locut0s Oct 2017 #2
The time for discussion about this was 20 years ago. ananda Oct 2017 #3
Ok agreed 100%. But that just highlights the need now even more... Locut0s Oct 2017 #4
Further proof... Locut0s Oct 2017 #5

KT2000

(20,577 posts)
1. we do need to catch up!
Wed Oct 25, 2017, 10:32 PM
Oct 2017

Right now we are divided but the future looks like a total splintering of the population. We may stand next to each other in stores etc. but increasingly the reality of life is on the internet. Communities may be defined by the websites people visit. When people find community on the internet preferable to the one in real life, this amounts to alienation. Alienation is a breeding ground for mental illness.

Locut0s

(6,154 posts)
2. That is true. Though I don't feel it has to be the case...
Thu Oct 26, 2017, 01:51 PM
Oct 2017

I don't feel that technology and social media HAS to lead to alienation. Indeed it can be extremely beneficial to those who are ALREADY alienated. The web offers thousands of communities and opportunities for us to connect with people. And sure talking with someone virtually isn't the same as communicating in person, but it's still surprisingly rich. I have a number of treasured online friends I've never met in person. People these days meet the partners of their dreams online all the time. I see it as an inevitability. The power of the web and technology is so astounding and the possibilities it unlocks so tantalising that there is no stopping it.

But that doesn't mean it HAS to be bad. People have lamented the pase of technological progress since the beginning of time. But I think few people would argue that despite the horrors that have occured throughout human history, that we are worse off without modern medicine, without the industrial revolution (yes it brought bad too), without electricity. The idea that we all lived better lives in harmony before these things is largely a lie. The reality is life was fucking hard for almost everyone before, and we now all live like kings after. But as Spiderman said with great power comes great responsibility. And we are shirking that responsibility.

What we need is not less technology. But more regulation of it. We could be living in a utopia if we wanted to.

Locut0s

(6,154 posts)
4. Ok agreed 100%. But that just highlights the need now even more...
Thu Oct 26, 2017, 01:56 PM
Oct 2017

Cause like I said it's not just elections that are going to be decided for us. It's everything. We need to have a discussion about what we want in our own control. And what we are ok leaving up to the control of algorithms.

Yesterday it was the 2000 election, today it's Trump, tomorrow it will be what music you tell me is your favourite. What types of food you have heard of. Indeed to some extent it's that today too. But we need to open these black boxes.

Locut0s

(6,154 posts)
5. Further proof...
Tue Oct 31, 2017, 05:25 AM
Oct 2017

Not exactly new as this is exactly what the Russian hacking allegations are about. But the fact that they reached 126 million Facebook users in the US is. Assuming very roughly those are actual live people that’s roughly a third of the whole US population. Meaning many of you saw these posts and may or may not have realized they were propaganda and have no idea how they influenced you emotionally.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41812369

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