General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums"Get Your Hand Off My Ass, You Perverted Creep!"
This should be spoken loudly and harshly whenever some asshole tries playing grabass. Draw attention to the situation. Let people see the man who dared to do that act of sexual aggression. Yell it loud enough for everyone in the area to hear you. Then step away, point at the offender and say, "That Man Grabbed My Ass!" in an equally loud voice. Draw a crowd. Look at the cell phone cameras and point again, saying the same thing.
Don't let some asshole get away with it. Make him own it. Make others aware of his assault on your person.
That's my advice. I guarantee I will never grab anyone's ass. It will never happen. There is no excuse for it. Not age. Not how you're dressed. No excuse at all for any man to do that to any woman.
Remember:
"Get Your Hand Off My Ass, You Perverted Creep!"
"That Man Grabbed My Ass!"
Rehearse it in your mind, and then Say It Loud!
DURHAM D
(32,606 posts)when the manager at Taco Bell has a 16 year old girl in the back office with the door closed and tells her that her hours will be cut unless she gives him a blow job she should say "Get your Hand Off My Ass etc. etc. etc." That will work
NOT
MineralMan
(146,255 posts)The 16 year old girl in Taco Bell should inform her father of it, take him to that Taco Bell and point out the asshole who did it publicly and loudly. "That's him, Dad! He's the One!" Dad will handle the rest, and the asshole will have to go home and change his underwear. Or, tell her 20-something older brother. The point is: Do something. Say something. Don't let the assholes get away with it. If you work at Taco Bell, that's not the only fast food job in town, I guarantee. Blow the whistle on the asshole.
DURHAM D
(32,606 posts)must help put food on the table she has few options and the manager knows it. If she moves on to the next fast food restaurant the same will happen all over again. Sexual harassment is pervasive in the industry. They always get away with it.
Sorry, but your suggestion is not in any way helpful for the majority of victims. otoh - at least you are thinking about it.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,106 posts)a male solution and do it quickly and without remembering that men have tremendous privilege in this society ESPECIALLY if we are white.
I dont speak for Mineral Man but I know him and I know he agrees with that statement, but I wont speak for him.
The answer is not for the victim to have to do jack shit, it is those of us in a position of power to STOP this fucking madness.
appleannie1943
(1,303 posts)I dumped the serving tray full of covered plates onto the floor and walked out, taking my book with me, in the middle of the lunch hour rush. Good luck figuring which table got what.
DURHAM D
(32,606 posts)As I indicated down thread I also created a stink when I was harassed at the office.
We are fortunate when we can walk away. So many can't.
brer cat
(24,524 posts)Too many people miss this point entirely, and especially those who blame the victim. There are also victims who genuinely fear for their safety if they make a public declaration.
Srkdqltr
(6,228 posts)How about YOU MEN..Who are the real problem not smirk or laugh at other men who they find out did this stuff?? You all give other men cover. The men investigating make the woman tell the story over and over so the MEN can be tittlated by the retelling? HOW ABOUT MEN STOP DOING THIS S*** TO WOMEN??? WHERE IS IT SAID YOU ALL HAVE THE RIGHT?? Tell your sons, fathers, brothers, students THIS IS ALL THE FAULT OF MEN!!!
mreilly
(2,120 posts)Nobody said "we all have the right." We don't. I've always been a gentleman and I'm raising two boys to do so. I don't appreciate your comment that "THIS IS ALL THE FAULT OF MEN."
This is all of the fault of BAD men.
There are many of us good guys out there fighting against this shit. I actually argued against an aunt of mine recently who said the Hollywood sexual assault victims were greedy and should have spoken out sooner; I defended them against her insinuation they were money-grubbing attention-seekers.
radical noodle
(7,997 posts)but I really have had so many bad experiences with so many different men, sometimes it's easy to forget those who don't.
Chemisse
(30,803 posts)Who don't do things like this, nor do they find it amusing when other men do.
Please don't malign half the human race.
MineralMan
(146,255 posts)I have been speaking against such crap since my teens. If someone admits to it or brags, they get an earful and my contempt.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)Young women need to know how to activate the record feature on their cell phones and also to know how to get in touch with the EEOC.
DURHAM D
(32,606 posts)You assume (1) that they have cell phones and (2) that they are not required to store them during work hours.
Also, they have no clue what the EEOC is and also there is a question as to whether or not it is still functioning.
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)OK never mind you're rightnobody has cell phones anymore. Or pockets.
DURHAM D
(32,606 posts)I assume it was intentional.
Done
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)" get the fuck away from me!" Loudly enough that anyone within earshot can hear you . Young women have a huge advantage here by the way . They can shriek really loud and they're strong and young and have big lungs. Skeezy Taco Bell manager does not have this woman in a soundproof room .
We need to empower and train our girls and women how to best respond because this will happen and can come from any direction , like the Taco Bell assistant manager, or the revered ex president. They prey on the young. Here's more food for thought they prey on our young boys too. anecdotally, boys and young men really, really do not want to talk about this. which, obviously and of course, perpetuates the cycle.
I would like to hear your advice on how a young person should manage this type of situation . I'm plugged into a good number of young women and want to offer them the best possible advice.
Delmette2.0
(4,157 posts)He would walk up behind her and poke her in the ribs while she was concentrating on her data entry work. I witnessed this one day. And much to my co-workers surprise I asked him if he did that to other men in the office. He said no. I asked if he did that to other women in the office, again he said no.
I told him that this was sexual harassment. If he didn't stop we would go to management and complain. If they didn't do anything then she could sue him and the company. Of course I thought I was speaking way over my head and actual knowledge. I did understand how male dominated the company was and how cheap they were.
The guy walked away and never did that again. I left for a better paying job and work environment six months later. To this day i think I was the only woman to stand up to any of the men.
I also think this would have never made it to court in those days.
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)MineralMan
(146,255 posts)Shame and exposure will work better.
Srkdqltr
(6,228 posts)You Mineral Man............... Tell men to stop doing that?? The and you are the problem. Why should the woman have to be shamed and exposed?
Don't presume to tell women what to do.
moriah
(8,311 posts)(And we know life is rarely ideal)....
... the idea is to shame and expose the ass-grabbing pervert by calling him out loudly on it. Which only works if it's happening in front of people who give a damn.
I was in a van of guys traveling to a group training before a long-term on-the-road project. Just like the last time I'd been on a traveling project, I was apparently the only woman who had applied -- certainly, I was the only woman hired and the only woman in that van.
I was trying to make it clear yet again to one guy who was overly persistent that I was taken, and talk to the very sheltered 18-year-old Mormon who had graduated at 16 because he was homechooled, when the persistent guy saw a sign for an adult bookstore coming up. We'd been making good time, and he wanted to embarrass the Mormon -- I didn't know if he intended to try to make me uncomfortable as well, but the other guys in the van decided to make the stop. Even though both me and the kid objected.
So what was I to do?
I decided to flip it around. When it was obvious we were going to be stopping, I went in with them and straight to the sales guy to ask about their BDSM gear. The store worker let me handle several large cat-o-nine tails whips, and volunteered to let me actually test out their weight and suitability on him (on this clothed back, of course). After showing the entire group I knew exactly how to handle one and obviously had experience, I purchased an almost souvenir-sized one that I kept clipped to my keychain until that guy went on to start his team's route.
I probably didn't reduce shock much for the poor Mormon kid, but at least my demonstration kept the attention off of him in the store.
And for some reason, the guy stopped flirting with me.
But I shouldn't have had to deal with a colleague not taking "taken" for an answer, or convincing the group to stop at the XXX store, in the first place.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)I understand the sentiment, but please do be consistent.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,308 posts)Also, "letting them get away with it" is a loaded phrase that doesn't adequately describe why women react the way they do in the moment.
MineralMan
(146,255 posts)people around. Guess what? If I'm there, I'm going to be stepping in between the woman and her assailant. Every last time.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,308 posts)MineralMan
(146,255 posts)And I'm not alone, by any means. What would your suggestion to a woman who got grabbed by the ass by a stranger in a public space? What would you suggest she do?
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,308 posts)how they react. Generally I trust women to do what is right for them in the moment; they are the best judges of their own experience.
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)I have screamed don't fucking touch mein public, on the street, more than once. It works
sprinkleeninow
(20,215 posts)elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)sprinkleeninow
(20,215 posts)Women have gotten bolder, thanks be. How do they like them apples??
And the so-called 'Christian' righties conveniently blind themselves to the Scripture that states "There is no Jew/Gentile, slave/free, male/female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus."
Prolly ripped that page outta their "My Bible Says".
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,308 posts)sprinkleeninow
(20,215 posts)that on someone suspends the recipient in a moment of shock, and that's why one doesn't/can't have a strong response. Unless practiced as MM does advise.
Iggo
(47,534 posts)sprinkleeninow
(20,215 posts)Iggo
(47,534 posts)sprinkleeninow
(20,215 posts)Mediumsizedhand
(531 posts)I believe a woman just came out and said HW grabbed her ass. I cannot tell you the number of women defending HW and trashed the woman not to mention the rest of men snorting at the woman for speaking up. That is just one of the issues with your statement. Just one. Keeping the job, shame and humiliation, retaliation, responsibility for anothers action. What if the woman/girl is shy, not forceful, vocal and aggressive? She must change her personality? to accommodate our society? The people around HW already knew he did this a number of times and did it to the woman complaining and did, said nothing. Well, SS told the woman she should not have stood by HW, after the fact, like she would know. But they did.
How about if we all simply say, grabbing an ass is wrong. When our grandpa's, bosses, friends and peers do it, we call them out instead of giggling about it. Or when they tell their friends they did, the men firmly call them out and put them in their place?
I believe the woman that did speak out was reduced to taking it back and deleting her post. After our society and culture got done with her.
hexola
(4,835 posts)And raised two daughters.
And he has Parkinsons - Im with Andrea Mitchell on this one...
Ask any gals who work in Nursing Homes - they get this stuff all the time!
Are we going to start raiding nursing homes?
Mediumsizedhand
(531 posts)insistence it is the victim's responsibility. Not only getting an unwanted grab, but the dismissal when she does speak out. Kind of boxed women and girls into a no win, suck it up kinda of position.
hexola
(4,835 posts)Pretty sure women dish it out too...
Mediumsizedhand
(531 posts)sprinkleeninow
(20,215 posts)But, can you see a guy having the exact same creeped out feeling by an advance from a female?
sprinkleeninow
(20,215 posts)elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)So it's OK if elderly patients with dementia or Parkinson's or undiagnosed anything can play grab ass with your daughters? What the fuck is wrong with you
hexola
(4,835 posts)No - its not "OK" - but he's in his 90s - has dementia - and is from a different era...
But you have temper your judgement with those considerations.
keithbvadu2
(36,666 posts)What is wrong with his family/staff warning women about his sexual assaults?
Do they warn women or just allow it to happen?
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)EXCUSE?!
I am SICK of old people (and I'm soon 68 myself) getting a pass, whether on "telling it like it is" or sexual touching (do NOT try to pretend the buttocks aren't relevant here).
Moreover, GHWB is not in a Nursing Home. Don't try to raise a pity-party for this heinous man. He wasn't always old, you know.
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)sprinkleeninow
(20,215 posts)sprinkleeninow
(20,215 posts)with the public if his glorious sparkling family can't curb him. Old and senile. *My* Royal Carpathian ___.
HipChick
(25,485 posts)you, while no-one is around...and you trying to figure out what just happened
MineralMan
(146,255 posts)Apparently, it's fairly common on subways and public transport. Just Ugh!
HipChick
(25,485 posts)but in the workplace...?
MineralMan
(146,255 posts)to other women there to warn them or ask if it had happened to them, as well. The point is not to be silent about it and make it public in some way or another. If the creep did it to you, he's probably done it to others. Multiple reports and he'll be walking out the door holding a pink slip.
Zero tolerance and public disclosure is the answer, I think.
people
(622 posts)Most HR Depts. are there to protect the employer from employees' claims of discrimination and sexual harassment. While some HR Depts. do try to cull out these bad actors upon learning of their behavior, many, many do not. Many HR Depts. concentrate on how to get rid of the troublesome complainer, they doubt her credibility or do a ridiculous "investigation" that is unable to conclude what happened and then the woman is left out to dry with her sexual harassing boss more or less vindicated. I know. I have handled these kinds of lawsuits for women. It is always a good idea in general to complain in writing about such conduct because, at minimum, there may be some kind of record when the next woman complains but, in order to complain, you have to be willing and able to face retaliation from the employer. For example, a woman or other discriminatee who complains may find when they next apply for a job that the former employer gives them a bad reference. Of course, it is very important, if it's possible to do so, to let others in the workplace know what happened and, if you have the resources to do so, to complain to HR or to higher-ups about the harassment. But many women (and minorities) are well aware of the risks involved in reporting the racial, sexual or other type of illegal discrimination to which they have been subjected on the job.
mercuryblues
(14,522 posts)in retail stores, streets, restaurants, well anywhere women are.
MineralMan
(146,255 posts)We need a new outrage against sexual harassment and assault. We need to st a nd up enough masse for women's rights to not be subjected to this.
DURHAM D
(32,606 posts)I had a boss who came up behind me while I was seated at my desk and on the phone and nudged my shoulder with his penis. I turned around and he backed off. I was not sure what had just happened. Then he did it again a few days later and I called him out and not too quietly.
I immediately began to gather up my stuff in preparation for leaving when the second in command came out and he fired me for being disruptive.
I knew I could get another job immediately so that was that. I had options that many don't.
Let me just add - the man who nudged me was and is a very big deal in Republican politics. So is the man who fired me.
MontanaMama
(23,295 posts)I am sorry. This event must have been gawd awful. Nobody should have to endure this crap at work or anyplace. I am glad you had employment options...so many women do not.
monmouth4
(9,686 posts)Squinch
(50,915 posts)that it doesn't happen.
In my experience, your advice would have gotten me fired from a job I needed. That time I didn't report it. Yes I did "let him get away with it." Your words suggest that the fault is then with me. My alternative was homelessness.
In my other experiences, on numerous instances on NYC subways in the 80's, I did shout for the asshole to get his hand off me. It was a crap shoot. Sometimes those around me would allow me to move away from the groper. Sometimes they just made it clear they thought it was funny.
In my other experience, no one would have heard it because the guy had managed to cull me from the herd and isolate me in a hallway. I was lucky to get away that time.
It is very easy for a man to say, "Just say no," which is essentially what you are telling women to do, but the world doesn't work that way.
DURHAM D
(32,606 posts)Squinch
(50,915 posts)shows how different the world is that we live in compared to the men around us.
sprinkleeninow
(20,215 posts)or friendly, innocent pat on the tush?
If in public I would scream, yell and if holding, barrel end to face from my convincer.
Squinch
(50,915 posts)sprinkleeninow
(20,215 posts)Squinch
(50,915 posts)better of the person groping or molesting you suggests that you don't understand the experience. I am guessing you are male.
I am not saying that with any ill will. I am just curious because this thread has made it clear to me that men and women live in completely different worlds with respect to this kind of experience.
sprinkleeninow
(20,215 posts)not a male.😤
Eliot Rosewater
(31,106 posts)liberal, one of the good guys.
And like I said in an earlier post, men (the good guys) we see a problem and we have no problem telling you immediately how to fix it, whether it is sexual assault or working the remote
It is how our brains work, and we have to stop doing that especially in this area because we dont know jack shit about what is going on yet we are in a unique position to put a STOP to it.
sprinkleeninow
(20,215 posts)to get yer Sears Roebuck tool trolley and attempt 'fixin' stuff. I know all too well. 🤗
Eliot Rosewater
(31,106 posts)although in my case i couldnt fix a burned out light bulb
sprinkleeninow
(20,215 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,308 posts)zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)Part of the problem here is so many men lecturing from ignorance. The OP is a classic example of this.
japple
(9,808 posts)People, esp. women and children, are often caught in a situation that they can't think their way out of very quickly.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)We should also avoid commenting on the perceived sexy attire of children in airplanes "who could not have been older than 12."
That's some pretty damned creepy stuff as well.
But I get it... it's often much easier to ignore the motes in our eyes when we want to advertise our ethics in public and lecture others.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)BigmanPigman
(51,567 posts)Dustin Hoffmann, portraying a female chief of staff at a hospital, where sexual assault by a particular doctor has been the norm, ordered his/her female staff to "zap him in the bugoodies with an electric cattle prod" and ordered a bunch for the female staff to use after she purchased many from "farm equipment wholesale".
zentrum
(9,865 posts)....the pervert is her boss and she has kids to feed. Or if the raise that will transform all their lives depends on her silence.
Can't expect the victims to be in this fight without systemic change. As black people are always saying----it's white people that have to talk to other white people about privilege and racism.
Please exhort men to put their jobs on the line if they see a woman being abused or harassed or demeaned or endangered.
Mediumsizedhand
(531 posts)"Please exhort men to put their jobs on the line if they see a woman being abused or harassed or demeaned or endangered. "
This.
WinstonSmith4740
(3,055 posts)I'd grab the man that did it by the nuts, squeeze hard, ignore his screams, and tell him that he's enjoying it. But then again, I'm 69 years old and have no qualms about anything anymore.
LisaM
(27,794 posts)It just isn't as simple as it sounds.
Not Ruth
(3,613 posts)In a room full of women and one man. The man methodically harassed 3-4 women with words (he was asking for change and invading personal space). Not until I yelled at him did one woman say that she was calling the cops. And he walked out.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)Most men get grabby when they can which is usually when they have the woman alone or away from others. Very rarely will a man do it in a public setting, unless the people are his friends who will egg him on.
Sometimes they'll do it in an extremely crowded setting such as a overly full bus or subway train when it's impossible for the woman to turn around to see who's doing it. And they'll never do it while you can see them when it's in public places. They're offenders but they're opportunistic offenders.
Even the women who claimed Trump groped them or stuck his tongue down their throat were all alone with him as he took them on some 'tour' and steered them to empty rooms.
But I appreciate your advice and I know you sincerely mean well. I wish it were that easy.
I'm 69 now and it hasn't happened to me for years and years, but when I was young and living in Mexico, boy oh boy!
keithbvadu2
(36,666 posts)His family/staff knew it but did not warn women about him? His younger family women?
Cal Carpenter
(4,959 posts)realized how patronizing and off-base it sounds, and then hit back space rather than post...
fierywoman
(7,671 posts)in a very crowded car. A man was exposing himself -- I was sitting in a sideways seat and he was at my knee. I yelled (in my gringa spanish):
WHY IS THE PENIS OUTSIDE OF YOUR PANTS???
Only I was flustered and instead of calling his member "el" (masculine), I said "la" (feminine.) The whole car roared with laughter and you have never seen anyone disappear so quickly through a crowded train car.
I think whether or not one can yell depends on the circumstances, and that starts with the safety of the woman.
rateyes
(17,438 posts)to my car when I was picking her up at the gym one afternoon, obviously fuming. I asked her what had happened. Seemed an 18 yr old guy had played grab ass with her. I asked who it was and started to get out of the car to confront that creep. My daughter said, "no need, Dad, I took care of it!" I asked what she did. She said, "I turned around and slapped the shit out of his face and told him 'you ever touch me again, you son-of-a-bitch, I will kill you!" Proud of that girl!
xeodtech
(79 posts)Last edited Thu Oct 26, 2017, 07:12 PM - Edit history (1)
As dementia set in in he did get a little perverted. I hope that we can excuse this from GWB.. I don't agree with him but he is really really old and this is nothing compared to our pervert and chief.. NOT NEWS...
zeusdogmom
(987 posts)What works for one person or situation does. it necessarily transfer to the next.
As a HS student w-a-y back in the previous century, I was harassed every day one winter in the hall way by one particular creepy dude. Telling him to stop was a waste of breath - it just egged him on. So one day I was carrying a purse with a pretty solid frame. He came up behind me, grabbed my butt and I swung my purse back and hit him square on hard in his junk. Needless it say it stopped him cold in his tracks. Never bothered me again. The sniggers of his friends was priceless. 😄
MineralMan
(146,255 posts)I will respond to the situation. If I do not know, I do not know. I am not alone in this. Sound the alarm. That's all I am saying. If there is no alarm, there will be no timely response, because nobody will know anything happened.
dlk
(11,514 posts)sprinkleeninow
(20,215 posts)Gabi Hayes
(28,795 posts)associate editor David Fink struck up a conversation with George W.
"When you're not talking politics," Fink asked the vice president's
son, "what do you and [your father] talk about?
Remember?
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/419325.html
librechik
(30,673 posts)But thanks for the suggestion. I think most of us know this already.