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L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
Sat Oct 28, 2017, 06:49 PM Oct 2017

On Monday, Mueller will charge one person with crimes, Donald J. Trump.

My strategy would be, first get rid of the guy who can pardon all the other criminals. But, we have more than strategy as evidence of what will happen on Monday. Bana Boente resigned. He is a witness to Trump's obstruction of justice. That may be why he resigned this week:



Russia Charges Cast U.S. Attorney Dana Boente Resignation In New Light | Rachel Maddow | MSNBC

Of course, there may be others charged with obstruction at the same time, including Jeff Sessions.

Trump's New Impeachable Offenses: Obstruction of Justice, Conspiracy, Abuse of Power






17 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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On Monday, Mueller will charge one person with crimes, Donald J. Trump. (Original Post) L. Coyote Oct 2017 OP
Nice thought dhol82 Oct 2017 #1
Won't happen. The Velveteen Ocelot Oct 2017 #2
Didn't people say that about grand juries? L. Coyote Oct 2017 #12
I agree with you. cwydro Oct 2017 #14
Jeff Sessions??? ThatGuyJerome Oct 2017 #3
I guess you didn't read the linked thread. Here's that OP: L. Coyote Oct 2017 #10
Lying to Congress about Trump/Russia could be perjury & obstruction. nt pnwmom Oct 2017 #16
Let it be so! orangecrush Oct 2017 #4
Nice fantasy Raine Oct 2017 #5
why not, pray tell? triron Oct 2017 #8
We realists are in a minority here, I think. Nt cwydro Oct 2017 #15
He resigned because Sessions told him to. No doubt they want to replace tblue37 Oct 2017 #6
Nope. fallout87 Oct 2017 #7
Laurence Tribe, the Harvard con law professor, says DT can be indicted. pnwmom Oct 2017 #17
That would be lovely, but NastyRiffraff Oct 2017 #9
The grand jury brings the indictment, the prosecutor files it. So yes, Mueller can indict Trump. L. Coyote Oct 2017 #11
He'd just pardon himself. joshcryer Oct 2017 #13
 

ThatGuyJerome

(15 posts)
3. Jeff Sessions???
Sat Oct 28, 2017, 07:13 PM
Oct 2017

Sessions recused himself early this year, how would he be charged with obstruction?

Trump will though...and that's all that matters

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
10. I guess you didn't read the linked thread. Here's that OP:
Sat Oct 28, 2017, 09:09 PM
Oct 2017


There is absolutely no doubt Trump's motive in firing Comey was to eliminate the person investigating #TrumpRussia and to obstruct the FBI investigation. That is criminal action.

The action was taken be three persons, Trump, Sessions and Rosenstein, and therefore conspiracy statutes prevail:

18 U.S. Code § 371 - Conspiracy to commit offense or to defraud United States - If two or more persons conspire either to commit any offense against the United States, or to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose, and one or more of such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.


18 U.S. Code § 372 - Conspiracy to impede or injure officer - If two or more persons in any State, Territory, Possession, or District conspire to prevent, by force, intimidation, or threat, any person from accepting or holding any office, trust, or place of confidence under the United States, or from discharging any duties thereof, or to induce by like means any officer of the United States to leave the place, where his duties as an officer are required to be performed, or to injure him in his person or property on account of his lawful discharge of the duties of his office, or while engaged in the lawful discharge thereof, or to injure his property so as to molest, interrupt, hinder, or impede him in the discharge of his official duties, each of such persons shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six years, or both.


The conspiracy began earlier, with truth-suppressing acts by co-conspirators Sessions, Flynn, and Kushner. Given perjury, false declarations, or assertion of a false affirmative statement by an individual testifying under oath accompanied by other obstructive, evasive testimony, such as a false denial of knowledge or memory, legal offenses exist. Sessions committed perjury in his confirmation hearing, Flynn lied to the FBI and about his Russia contacts, Kushner failed to disclose his Russia contacts in his security clearance. These acts and Trump's firing of Comey are part of a pattern of actions, a cover up related to the Trump campaign, and have been carried out for a unified purpose and in a concerted manner.

18 U.S. Code § 1621 - Perjury generally - Whoever—
(1) having taken an oath before a competent tribunal, officer, or person, in any case in which a law of the United States authorizes an oath to be administered, that he will testify, declare, depose, or certify truly, or that any written testimony, declaration, deposition, or certificate by him subscribed, is true, willfully and contrary to such oath states or subscribes any material matter which he does not believe to be true; or
(2) in any declaration, certificate, verification, or statement under penalty of perjury as permitted under section 1746 of title 28, United States Code, willfully subscribes as true any material matter which he does not believe to be true;
is guilty of perjury and shall, except as otherwise expressly provided by law, be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both. This section is applicable whether the statement or subscription is made within or without the United States.


Obstruction and impeding any inquiry or investigation in Congress is also criminal. Director Comey was a witness before Congress in both public and classified hearings in the very days before his dismissal.

18 U.S. Code § 1505 - Whoever corruptly, or by threats or force, or by any threatening letter or communication influences, obstructs, or impedes or endeavors to influence, obstruct, or impede the due and proper administration of the law under which any pending proceeding is being had before any department or agency of the United States, or the due and proper exercise of the power of inquiry under which any inquiry or investigation is being had by either House, or any committee of either House or any joint committee of the Congress—

Shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years or, if the offense involves international or domestic terrorism (as defined in section 2331), imprisoned not more than 8 years, or both.


History repeats. The first charge in Nixon's impeachment resolution was obstruction of justice. Abuse of power and politics can continue to impede investigations. An independent investigation is an immediate imperative.

The best path forward remains unresolved. There were reasons to impeach Trump before this latest action, but political will was lacking. That too is changing, moreso behind the barriers of secrecy imposed by classified information. As more information from the multitudinous investigations is revealed, the demands to end Trump's despotic tenure will grow. I doubt partisanship will be set aside to restore justice and undo an election outcome that never should have been. However, we don't have all the facts yet and when we do, even that may happen. Meanwhile, let the impeachment begin.



tblue37

(65,336 posts)
6. He resigned because Sessions told him to. No doubt they want to replace
Sat Oct 28, 2017, 08:10 PM
Oct 2017

him with a Trump loyalist who will fire Mueller when Rosenstein is fired (or forced to resign) for refusing to do so.

 

fallout87

(819 posts)
7. Nope.
Sat Oct 28, 2017, 08:33 PM
Oct 2017

Look, Mueller can't get rid of Trump, he can't indict him, nothing like that. Congress is the only body that can remove a president. As much as I would LOVE for that to happen, its pure fantasy.

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
17. Laurence Tribe, the Harvard con law professor, says DT can be indicted.
Sun Oct 29, 2017, 06:57 AM
Oct 2017

So do other top lawyers. It's a matter of controversy, because it hasn't been attempted.

NastyRiffraff

(12,448 posts)
9. That would be lovely, but
Sat Oct 28, 2017, 08:51 PM
Oct 2017

it won't happen. In the first place, Mueller can't indict Trump. (Actually, he can't indict anyone; the grand jury does the indictments). But even if he could, he wouldn't. Most prosecutors start at the lower levels hoping they'll flip.

I'm still thinking Manafort and/or Flynn.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
11. The grand jury brings the indictment, the prosecutor files it. So yes, Mueller can indict Trump.
Sat Oct 28, 2017, 09:13 PM
Oct 2017

He just cannot drag him into court for prosecution while he is president. The charges can be presented to Congress for their action. Once Trump is impeached, the trial can proceed.

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