Trump should resign, Pence names Clinton as his VP, then Pence resigns - that is

[Justice]

what I want.

Won't happen but it is what I feel will begin to rectify the theft of the election.

[dhol82]

1. Only in a parallel universe

[democratisphere]

2. Yeah. That will work!

Now you've.got to get Pence to cooperate with your plan.

[delisen]

5. Actually Mueller can arrange that in a plea bargain

if Pence is also facing charges. (He is connected to Monafort).

Would a Pence facing jail time agree in exchange for a "stay out of jail card?" Maybe.

[onenote]

11. It would be an abuse by Mueller -

Deciding who gets to be president isn't his job. It's absurd to think he would even contemplate going there.

[delisen]

16. Well he wouldn't have to. Spiro Agnew left the vp slot as part of a plea bargain

and the politics of Congress decided that Gerald ford would be acceptable to them and Nixon decided to follow the Congress and nominated Ford-whom everyone knew was likely to become president shortly thereafter.

Republican in congress may appear invincible and unwilling to do something that seems absurd based upon their past performance-but there is a lot we don't know at present.

I am bothered by democratic unwillingness to demand Justice with a capital J.

The very demand for justice by people makes a difference. For example we demand that violators of the law be tried for major crimes even though they may not be convicted by a prejudiced jury.

If there is strong evidence that Trump was installed in the Oval Office due to criminal actions, why would we not at the very least make the demand that things be set right?

I don't care if the opposition screams, laughs, spits in our faces, or whatever. To let the fear that it won't work or can't work keep us from making the demand means abdicating our role in a democracy,

The demand must be made. The right of the people to petition the government for redress of grievances must be made. It is our role.

[boston bean]

23. I agree. We must at the very least demand justice and what we feel would be justice with this faile

Election.

[onenote]

24. We can demand the sun moon and stars. Just don't expect to get them.

As for the Agnew example, the idea that "everyone knew" Ford "was likely to become president shortly thereafter" -- that's a rewrite of history not supported by the actual facts.

When Agnew resigned on October 10, 1973, Ford was the House Minority Leader and thus the logical person to take the position. Moreover, the Democrats didn't seek to push for one of their own to become VP even though, unlike today, the Democrats had strong majorities in both the Senate (56-42-2) and House (242-192--nearly identical to today's Repub majority).

And far from "everyone" knowing Nixon would "shortly" be out, when Ford was nominated on October 12, 1973, here are some of the events that hadn't yet occurred:

The Saturday Night Massacre - Oct. 20, 1973
The authorization of the House Judiciary to start an impeachment investigation - February 6, 1974
The US v. Nixon decision -- July 23 1974
The adoption by the Judiciary Committee of three impeachment articles July 27-30 (passed despite opposition from a majority of the Republicans on the Committee)
The release of the smoking gun tape: Aug 5, 1974

Until the release of the smoking gun tape, Nixon's ouster was far from certain given continued republican opposition

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

34. Right. I was an adult, and lived in the DC

era then, although I did not work for the federal government. We really thought, when Ford became VP, that he'd remain VP, although things did suddenly move quickly not long thereafter.

When the Saturday Night Massacre happened most of us thought, "Oh, crap! Nixon will stay forever."

[delisen]

39. Most of the country was following the

dramatic events of the Watergate investigation prior to the resignation of Spiro Agnew and the nomination of Gerald ford as vp.

A Harris poll in July 1973 found that 44% believed that Nixon should resign if involved in a criminal coverup of Watergate burglary.

July and August: the country witnessed the subpoena by the Watergate committee of the White House tapes, the special prosecutor demanded same, Nixon refused and turned to the public in a dramatic prime time address explaining his refusal. the committee and the special prosecutor turned to the courts.

It was against this immediate backdrop that Agnew resigned and the Senate told Nixon that Gerald Ford was their choice for vp.

When Ford was nominated and confirmed the discussion of whether or not Nixon would be able to to survive as president had been underway.

https://www.fordlibrarymuseum.gov/museum/exhibits/watergate_files/content.php?section=3&page=d


The Ford Library Museum has a timeline of events

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

40. Agnew's resignation did give hope that Nixon would soon be gone.

Keep in mind that it was ten months from Agnew's resignation to Nixon's. The Saturday Night Massacre was just ten days after Agnew resigned, and it was a clear attempt on Nixon's part to keep the entire Watergate investigation from continuing. Fortunately, in the end, it didn't happen that way.

I didn't realize the Senate told Nixon that Ford should be the VP, as it was the House that confirmed him. And the House that would confirm any other replacement VP. Which is why no Democrat will possibly be a replacement VP this year or next.

[onetexan]

26. Mueller didn't have to choose, the majority of Americans have already decided

Hillary the legitimate president won the popular vote by 3 million. She is not president because the election was stolen by thugs who traded democracy for treason. It would only be justice served and a horrific wrong made right to give the rightful winner her due as POTUS, duly elected by the majority of Americans.

[mythology]

33. Except the popular vote isn't how we elect a president.

[onetexan]

38. thats arguable -it was stolen

[sarisataka]

13. Not sure I like setting the precedent

Of "resign your office after designating a specific successor or go to jail"

[delisen]

21. The prosecutor & defendant can plea bargain but the selection

of a particular successor is up to whomever is designated by law to make those decisions or agreements.

A defendant must make his her deal of own free will, I believe-it can't be forced by others. The prosecutor could not force Agnew to resign, it was up to him to make that decision of his free will.

In the Agnew precedent, neither Agnew or the prosecutors were involved in determining succession. They had no authority in that area.

Gerald Ford was a politically-decided choice by the constitutionally empowered actors.

[Justice]

37. its called equitable relief

[Eyeball_Kid]

29. Pence exposed an agent of a foreign

adversary to classified information. Pence committed espionage. That’s the simple story. And the true story. He can’t assume the presidency.

[Abouttime]

31. Mueller is literally key to this

Trump is toast and likely going to prison for life. Pence is looking to save not just his freedom but his reputation. He could escape prosecution and be the head of the opposition for life by naming Hillary as his VP then resigning. In a strange way he would become the republican version of Jimmy Carter, respected and out of politics. He could lead a permanent minority Republican Party and devote his time to religion.
Hillary would have at least two years as President and be a shoo in for reelection.

[sl8]

12. And, after Pence, both Houses of Congress. n/t

[ClarendonDem]

3. Why would Trump do that?

Or Pence? Trump clearly doesn't care about fairness, and I can't imagine Pence does either. And regardless of how much I don't like the result, Trump won the election under the rules that govern our elections.

[delisen]

6. Actually we don't know how for certain how they won.

why would Trump do that? It is the magic of the pleas bargain tha makes people do out-of-character things.

Much depend on whether someone or someone's relatives are facing charges.

[ClarendonDem]

9. Agree

That we don't know for certain how Trump won. But even if Trump's relatives face charges, don't see how Pence's would, which short-circuits this fantasy.

[delisen]

14. We don't know if Pence might face charges.

He is connected to Manafort.

If he faces charges he may want to bargain. Spiro Agnew did and decided to plea bargain his way out of the vp slot.

While I dislike the Tea Party Republicans and their politics, and their dishonesty, I do give them credit for going full speed ahead in pursuit of what they want and turning barriers into mere obstacles.

Once Democrats used to to a lot more thinking along those lines-turning barriers into obstacles that could be overcome.

[Kaleva]

4. If you are going to dream, then dream big!

[delisen]

7. Yes. don't come here with piddling dreams!

[sarisataka]

8. Sure

[Codeine]

15. In what world does the Senate confirm her? nt

[delisen]

18. Let the senate refuse us justice. Let's

not refuse ourselves the demand that justice be done.

[Initech]

17. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! That would never happen in a million years.

Pence and Ryan would both nominate some ultra far right extremist.

[delisen]

20. Maybe; maybe not.

If we don't demand justice, who will? If no one demands justice, will it ever happen?

[L. Coyote]

19. Seems about right. Maybe this guy should be suggesting that:

Link to tweet

Reinhold Niebuhr, Former FBI Director, ....

[rickford66]

22. Dems take Senate and House.

Elect Clinton Speaker. Impeach Trump and Pence and find them guilty.

[onenote]

27. And where are we finding a 2/3 majority to convict?

We have 46 seats, plus two independents that vote with us. In 2018, 23 of our seats, plus the two independent seats, are up for reelection. There are eight republican seats up. If we capture all 33, we go from 48 to 56 -- that's eleven short of 2/3.

And we're not winning 33 out of 33 elections in 2018, no matter what happens.

[rickford66]

30. Just a fantasy scenario.

In my opinion, it's possibly the most logical way Clinton could end up President. Of course probable isn't the same as possible. One of the reasons I made the post is that in my political conversations, very few people know that the Speaker can be anyone who meets the criteria of a Representative, not necessarily a Representative. Of course you are correct. It could never happen.

[TeamPooka]

25. If you think you're getting a peaceful transition of power without an election with this group

then I have a bridge in Brooklyn you should buy.
We may not get a peaceful transition of power even with an election with this crooked bunch.

[Abouttime]

32. You're wrong

10 years ago you would have said we'd never have gay marriage or transsexuals in the military.
Don't be afraid to think big, were on the right side of history.
Trump will be gone and Hillary will be President!!

[TeamPooka]

36. You are comparing apples and oranges. LGBTQ rights are in evolution. TrumpCo are crooks in power

there is no evolution
Comparing a social rights movement to a crooked regime is not applicable.
and to think Hillary will be president now in this way outlined is just naive foolishness.
the kind that gets you blocked and/or ignored around here by serious folks with work to do electing Democrats.
You are thinking big when you should be thinking smart and realistically.

[jberryhill]

28. Can I sell beer in the stands

During that hockey game on the frozen ice of Hell?

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

35. Do you really understand how getting a replacement VP actually works?

Are you aware that a new VP is confirmed by the House? Do you recall what the balance of power is there?

There is no way on god's green earth that the House would confirm any Democrat whatsoever, let alone Hillary Clinton. They'd go for one of their own, and I'm not about to make any speculation at this point.

[Takket]

41. May as well hope JFK crawls out of the grave and takes over

Just about as likely.

[delisen]

42. Unless some house members are involved

in the Russian interference or the investigation turns up some financial scam involvement.