General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsStop the bs..This is about gender and NOT the 2nd amend!
Last edited Sun Nov 5, 2017, 11:32 PM - Edit history (2)
Face the facts people (liberal men included).
Now feel free to bash me...I have heard it my entire life...excuses!!!
http://time.com/4968842/one-undeniable-factor-in-gun-violence-men/
https://www.statista.com/statistics/476445/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-gender/
titaniumsalute
(4,742 posts)Irish_Dem
(46,957 posts)Men who are cowards killing innocent and unarmed people, including children.
If it were women constantly doing this, there would be hell to pay.
Feel free to bash me too.
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)Gender, no.
whathehell
(29,067 posts)It's about exaggerated maleness.
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)Want to fellate a gun barrel. I think that is important to say.
whathehell
(29,067 posts)but too many of them.
ghostsinthemachine
(3,569 posts)Fellate a gun, it was a woman.
whathehell
(29,067 posts)but the poster wasn't speaking literally or about porn.
Next.
Horse with no Name
(33,956 posts)Most mass shooters are men
but most men aren't mass shooters.
malaise
(268,949 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)It is primarily conservative, white men with major entitlement issues.
elleng
(130,865 posts)Without NRA's financial backers and all the noise they foment, the issue would have largely expired a long time ago, imo.
meadowlander
(4,394 posts)Dont kill dozens of people at a time when they go on killing sprees so it is a little about the second amendment. Also I suspect the frequency of all mass killings is higher in the US than other countries. It is about a culture of toxic masculinity meeting hopelessly unjust social conditions and cuts to mental health programmes specific to the US that is the major contributor.
meadowlander
(4,394 posts)now that I have google in front of me.
90 mass killings a year in the US. The next highest is the Philippines with 18 a year (6 times fewer).
Do they not have men in other countries or do they just raise them in a different culture?
moriah
(8,311 posts)BigmanPigman
(51,585 posts)I taught elementary school here for over 15 years as well and have had meetings at that very school.
You are cherry picking and not admitting that the overall number of shooters are men...why????? Read the graph and article then get back to me.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/476445/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-gender/
http://time.com/4968842/one-undeniable-factor-in-gun-violence-men/
moriah
(8,311 posts)That doesn't mean women don't kill, that killing is a gendered problem, or even that women are accurately represented in statistics for murders (just as with sexual assault, people assume men are more likely perps so they investigate men first -- and with child sexual assault we know for certainty that women are underrepresented in statistics because of under-reporting as merely one factor).
Yes, most often men will choose to use a more effective means to accomplish a death, be it suicide or homicide, thsn women. That may be because they are more familiar with firearms, have more strength to accomplish other more violent, effective methods like knives/other physical force, etc, but it's what makes men who attempt suicide more likely to die from it, despite more women making attempts.
But if you want death counts, look at some of the women serial killers out there. They might not do it with firearms, they might do it with drugs they have access to as nurses, etc, but they can hit a high body count before getting caught simply because they aren't suspected. How many are never caught? How many of the unidentified men murdered out there were killed by women? Since we don't know their assailants, we'll never know until they get their names back. And there are a LOT of unidentified male murder vics in NamUS.
Also, ffs, I used to own a gun. Every woman in my family knows how to shoot and most have their CHLs even if they don't regularly carry. My second cousin prefers to use her bow to bring down deer. We might be more responsible with our weapons and less inclined to do a "hold my beer" compared to a few idiots I've met who had CHLs as well, but that's probably because we listened to the people teaching us about them a little more closely.
The only people I know who have actually fired weapons at other people outside of warfare or line-of-duty work as officers have been women, too. One shot her husband in the hand during an argument and he lied about how it happened (this was from her lips) because he thought he deserved it for what he said, and the other got off five rounds before her .22 jammed. She faced attempted murder charges but was acquitted. I think *she* was justified, but still... the other certainly was overreacting.
You want to use this as an excuse to scapegoat men for sociopathic violence, and unintentionally contribute to the idea that women are helpless creatures who need these big violent men to protect us from other big violent men? You can do it without this feminist.
BigmanPigman
(51,585 posts)In fact it is the complete opposite of what my point is. Who in the Hell said women are helpless let alone need protection from men by men?
moriah
(8,311 posts)The patriarchy our society has developed from has so much BS built into it that when we attempt to address certain portions we unintentionally sometimes feed other stereotypes. While there will always be some differences between men and women's "bell curves" on just about any chart, pinning anything on one gender has repercussions for the other.
By suggesting gun violence is a "male problem", you both ignore the roots of violence itself, and suggest men are far more violent than women could be. That implies women are therefore vulnerable and need protection. What do people do when they feel they need protection? They look for something that can do violence for them (be it a self-defense class, a weapon, an animal, or a person).
This has been an unconscious female primate reproductive strategy since the first female realized a strong male might mistreat her but also kept predators from killing her and her young. It has been reinforced culturally long enough.
We don't need to keep on by harping on "men being violent", but figure out why *people* are violent at all.
Nac Mac Feegle
(970 posts)Called Confirmation Bias and Target Fixation.
I'm not disagreeing with you.
I'd like to caution that it is easy to stop at an easy, obvious answer. That is wrong.
This is related to something that has been bothering me for a long time: Where does the anger come from?
Why do so many of men have so much anger and resentment towards women?
I've seen and heard too many things that bother me: I wasn't raised that way, but a lot of people that I've been around, and weren't raised much different than I, do have this anger and resentment towards women.
Where does it come from?
Changing roles for gender in society?
Unrealistic portrayals from Hollywood?
Video games?
Television?
Religion?
All of the above?
None of the above?
Other things singularly and in combination?
How do we begin to find out?
Because we have to. We have to stop the madness.
It's a waste of people, potential, time, lives, and energy to keep the status quo.
Let's not pick a convenient boogieman, point to it as the cause, and stop there without doing something about the problem.
Look for the cause, not the symptom.
Maybe we can start on fixing something, rather than simply complaining that it's broken.
moriah
(8,311 posts)Let's not pick a convenient boogieman, point to it as the cause, and stop there without doing something about the problem.
Look for the cause, not the symptom.
+100000.
meadowlander
(4,394 posts)As opposed to the sixty mass shootings committed by men this year and counting....
98% of mass shootings are committed by men. 90% of all murders are committed by men. (http://www.newsweek.com/white-men-have-committed-more-mass-shootings-any-other-group-675602)
But you're right, it's ridiculous to say this problem has anything to do with men because Aileen Wurnous... and that other one 38 years ago and a bevy of theoretical angel-of-death nurses that just haven't been caught yet.
moriah
(8,311 posts)I'm not denying the statistics. I think they are being thrown around in a very unproductive way, however.
Try to figure out WHY the statistics are what they are, because by your own stats if we focus only on men killing, we're neglecting 10% of murders.
One in 10 may seem a small number to you, but doesn't that 10th murder deserve to have research done on it, too? There is VERY little research done on female sociopaths and female serial killers -- partly because we just don't have as much "material" to study, but the little research done shows they don't fit stereotypical patterns.
Yet suggesting it's just a Y chromosome or lack thereof thing and there is no common denominator for killing, even with guns, is ... well, IMHO a very silly starting premise. It reinforces that gender is a binary concept when we know it's not, and if it was just a Y chromosome then that song *wouldn't* have come out.
madamesilverspurs
(15,800 posts)we had our regular monthly luncheon. We were pleased to be joined by a fellow who often misses such events due to busy-ness at work. We were talking about the cases of sexual abuse and the alarming frequency of mass shootings. He opined that "we have to do a better job of raising our sons in this country." It bears mentioning that he is a practicing psychologist whose caseload includes jail inmates.
.
Response to madamesilverspurs (Reply #14)
whathehell This message was self-deleted by its author.
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)It is all too easy to cite this as the "reason" behind all the gun violence, but I just cannot accept it is so simple. There are so many additional reasons embedded within this paragraph that we need to see this as a symptom rather than the underlying disease. For instance, why do only men do this if women confront even more social/economic injustice? Why is it only certain men? From where did this sense of higher status come?
This is all guesswork at this point. We might find out that the LV shooter watched too much Faux Nooze or listened to Alex Jones. Then we might find out that the TX shooter had just broken up with his girlfriend. Honestly, I think it comes down to one major issue: The way mental illness is perceived as taboo by our society. This goes double for men who are expected to be "masculine" (whatever that means) and suck it up. Why can't these men seek out a professional psychologist and work through their fear of "slipping status"? That is what we need to focus on.
BigmanPigman
(51,585 posts)I know that if it weren't for the female spouse many married men wouldn't even go to a doctor for an ailment or regular exam. I guess that this is considered a "weakness" which goes back to the mach/strong man mentality that is common in this country.
moriah
(8,311 posts)... is essential to solving the problems it has created in our culture.
We especially need to tackle the idea that "complimentarianism" (sp?, my tablet doesn't know if that's right) is the only valid solution that applies in every relationship without question, which is crucial to the Christian Patriarchy movement.
To them, boys aren't supposed to cry or snap, their moms or wives are supposed to read their emotions and solve the problem.
Now, it might be true that girl babies are verbal earlier -- about the only sign we are somehow more "gifted" at communication naturally rather than conditioned to be responsive to emotional cues -- and high testosterone might make anger management more difficult (don't know if controlled research has actually been done).
But it cripples men to teach them they can't be in touch with their emotions, even anger. Especially anger, because if turned inward leads to self-destruction, and if turned outward after being held in too long...
Initech
(100,065 posts)The NRA has pretty much done everything to protect their precious killing machines short of legalizing murder. Anyone can get a gun in this country and it doesn't matter what your age, gender, sexual orientation, economic status, criminal background, or credit score is, if you just exist in this country, you can get a gun. And any time any real, significant change is to be made for gun control laws, people go fucking apeshit. It's insane. The NRA is the common factor in all of this, and for the greater good of this country, they need to go.
Crunchy Frog
(26,579 posts)Our gun rights must be preserved at absolutely ANY cost!
Response to BigmanPigman (Original post)
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DavidDvorkin
(19,473 posts)Rightwing drivel.