David Frum tweet:

[applegrove]

"SNIP......

David Frum

@davidfrum
1h

Crazy thought: lifetime gun ban for anyone who raises a hand against a woman or a child

......SNIP"

[JI7]

1. i think that would mean most who own guns would be legally banned from having them

[applegrove]

2. Probably more common in gun nuts but I would think it would be a

minority of them that hit. Then again I live in canada.

[Straw Man]

4. Stay classy, Culture Warrior.

i think that would mean most who own guns would be legally banned from having them

Or should I say "classist"?

[Squinch]

14. Culture warrior? Why not just go full on and say SJW so we can all know where we stand?

[Straw Man]

19. Because I think that classist culture war has nothing to do with social justice.

[Straw Man]

3. It's already law.

Federal Form 4473, Section 6.

https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download

d. Have you ever been convicted in any court of a felony, or any other crime for which the judge could have imprisoned you for more than one year, even if you received a shorter sentence including probation?

[...]

h. Are you under a court order restraining you from harassing, stalking, or threatening your child or an intimate partner or child of such partner?

i. Have you ever been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence?

[applegrove]

5. But he bought his AR-### in 2016. After the assault of his wife and child.

[Straw Man]

7. So who dropped the ball?

That's the pertinent question.

[Kaleva]

16. The Air Force dropped the ball

[Straw Man]

18. Yes, it's looking like that's what happened.

[Grammy23]

23. Looks like the Air Force failed to enter his name in the proper data base.

Guess they will have to explain how that happened but sadly it will be far too late for the victims he murdered in Texas.

[Stinky The Clown]

29. The pertinent question is why WAR WEAPONS are legal

Your question is obfuscation . . . . at best.

[Stinky The Clown]

32. Blame shifting and obfuscation, as I said.

Carry on

[Straw Man]

33. So that's a "yes"?

When you prioritize new legislation over enforcement of current legislation that could have prevented this tragedy, I have to question your priorities.

Refusing to answer the question: Why am I not surprised? Carry on evading, Stinky.

[Stinky The Clown]

40. Stop being silly, provocative, and in defense of the indefensible

I'm not evading. I'm engaging you quite directly as you defend the gunners, the gun industry, and, dare I suggest it, the will of the NRA.

Quite simply, if we had no guns, we would not have had this latest massacre.

Go Australia!

[Straw Man]

42. Simple.

Why do you feel that enforcing existing laws, laws that could have prevented this tragedy, is less important than passing new laws?

If you don't answer that question, you are not "engaging ... directly."

Quite simply, if we had no guns, we would not have had this latest massacre.

So you're calling for a total ban on civilian ownership of firearms?

Go Australia!

Australia has no such ban.

[Stinky The Clown]

43. Yes

I will not support your obfuscation.

[Straw Man]

44. And I will not support ...

... your call for a total ban on private ownership of firearms in the United States. I consider that to be an extremist position.

[Stinky The Clown]

46. Good. Now we're down to the essence of things.

I look askance when people use the term "firearms". No one who genuinely opposes GUNS uses the term.

[lagomorph777]

34. Welcome to DU.

Good luck selling that stuff here.

[Straw Man]

35. I've been here longer than you.

Welcome to DU.

Good luck selling that stuff here.

And I'm not "selling" anything -- merely expressing my own views.

[lagomorph777]

36. That's disturbing.

[Straw Man]

37. Sorry if you feel disturbed ...

That's disturbing.

... but it's not my problem.

[lagomorph777]

38. Oh, obviously.

And that seems to be your approach to gun violence.

[Straw Man]

39. Could you provide evidence ...

And that seems to be your approach to gun violence.

... for that gratuitous little slur? I'm arguing in favor of enforcement of current law, which, had it been done, could have prevented or mitigated this tragedy. How is that not proactive?

[Stinky The Clown]

41. Wow, you've really mastered the art of the quote.

Lemme just make an observation. On DU, the software makes quoting the person to whom you reply unnecessary in all but a few special cases. Other sites I've visited make the quote the only way to follow a long thread like this.

I find I have virtually no agreement with the points of view on those other forums.

[lagomorph777]

45. Your "Straw Man" argument that proposing new laws implies opposing existing laws.

I didn't have to look far for evidence:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9807798

You may need to seek a more gullible or friendlier audience; DU is probably not the best forum for such illogic.

[fallout87]

24. He lied on his 4473 form

Plus the Air force didn't notify the feds that he was dishonorably discharged which would have denied him the gun.

[applegrove]

25. It should not be so easy.

[fallout87]

30. The law only works

if it is being followed by the agencies responsible for reporting to the feds, which would have denied his BG check.

[Crunchy Frog]

6. A law with absolutely no enforcement.

Therefore basically meaningless.

[Straw Man]

8. Yes -- it's a truism.

Laws without enforcement are meaningless. What's the solution?

[Crunchy Frog]

9. Probably add an enforcement component to the law.

Crazy idea, I know.

[Straw Man]

10. An enforcement component?

What does that mean? An addendum suggesting that the law be enforced?

[Crunchy Frog]

11. Some kind of mechanism by which the law

can actually be enforced.

Told you I knew it was a crazy idea.

[Straw Man]

17. Mechanism?

Some kind of mechanism by which the law

can actually be enforced.

Told you I knew it was a crazy idea.

What are you talking about? No "mechanism" is required. All it takes is a little thing called "will." Apparently it is not a priority of the powers-that-be to keep the NICS database current and pursue violators who lie on the 4473 forms. If they were really serious about gun control, they would do both of those things.

[quartz007]

26. Haha...keep your day job!

No chance as a stand up comedian!

[niyad]

12. don't forget about the "boyfriend loophole"

[niyad]

13. works for me!

[Squinch]

15. Could this mean that SOMEONE is noticing the one to one correspondence between

abuse of women and children and spree shooting?

[brooklynite]

20. "The Right To Bear Arms Shall Not Be Abridged"

Absent a Constitutional Amendment, you couldn't implement this concept, and if you could change the Constitution there'd be more effective changes to the 2nd Amendment.

[applegrove]

21. Apparently the military court that convicted the shooter of assault on his wife

and step-child and jailed him for a year did not inform the federal database to ban him from buying guns.

[Hekate]

22. Every right has limitations. First Amendment is hedged about with them

I daresay fewer people have died from libel than from firearms, yet libel is one of those limitations on the right to free speech.

[Beartracks]

27. Wow. Excellent point. n/t

[ecstatic]

28. The airforce really dropped the ball. He broke an infant's skull ffs!

And only got one year?! And then was free to move on like nothing ever happened? Wtfff?! Do they not understand all the research that shows how dangerous men like him are??

Also heard he attacked a dog in broad daylight... Neighbors called the cops, then nothing. How many times can one guy slip through the cracks? Smh